FIRE EVERYONE!

[rfischer94]

As a wise man once said “stats are for losers.” At the end of the day, the only stat that matters is the score. MSU hasn’t faired well in this statistical category against the Dakotas. Moral victories are a temporary solution to a larger problem. That’s the point I’m making. Like I said, cats have narrowed the gap in recent years but haven’t been able to break thru when it counts. The receipts are in the final scores.

So if we lost 45-0 and looks years away from building a team good enough to beating them, you’re cool with that?

At least there would be no doubt, coming up short is more frustrating than getting routed out of the building. The complacency of “almost” from the fan base and coaches is getting old.

Why are saying it’s complacency? I don’t see anyone being complacent. Things are just handed to you on a platter. You need to not only analyze the bad but the good. Fans in this situation over think things. I feel strongly that we’re just as good and we will beat them if we stay the course. I don’t think we’ll never beat cuz we’ve lost four close games. I would if we were losing like we did the previous four. What was it 39-18, 38-10, 42-14, 52-10. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. There’s still work to do but we don’t need to reinvent the wheel or just quit.

How many years have we been “staying the course”? How many more will it take? I want to mark my calendar so I know when “staying the course” will result in a national championship. Should I buy my Frisco tickets for 2033 or wait til 2035? Obviously there is a schedule and we’re right on time I’m just impatient.

You acting entitled.

And you are being complacent.

Complacency implies "uncritical satisfaction" with one's achievements (from Lord Google).i don't think that describes the fan base. None of us are satisfied with coming up short to the XDSUs. We are just disappointed and frustrated. Or at least i am.

[rfischer94]

I hope I’m wrong and my frustrations with Vigen are nothing more than small missteps. I hope he’s thinking of all the things to fix this and beat them in the playoffs. I hope all of the people not seeing anything wrong are right. If thats the case it means the plane is gonna be one trophy heavier taking off from Frisco that the plane that left Bozeman. That will be a great day.

If that’s not the case then something has to be done to beat the dsus and the gris in missoula. I think that starts with a new HC. Am I right? Who knows

Either win in which case I’m wrong about Vigen and my skepticism was overplayed or my detractions of Vigen are anccurate and I think a change of leadership is in order.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I would hope we can agree that being a Bobcat is great and winning makes it that much sweater. I hope Vigen accomplishes the goals he was hired to achieve. If he doesn’t show him the door.

Jeff Choate was 4-0 against the gris in Missoula but never sniffed the chipper & is looking like hes way out of his depth at Nevada.

And he was a pretty good coach here.

The idea that we are going to replace an 77% win rate coach with a 100% win rate coach is totally absurd.

And he also lost to Idaho State, an indignity Vigen has never allowed to befall the team.

[RKMCMT]

The actual streak soaked up most of 2 decades so probably not close.

[coloradocat]

I wasn't paying attention during the streak so its possible that this is a bad analogy. Is the Bobcats' repeated losses to the XDSUs this generation's "streak?"

We beat SDSU in 2021 so no, it's not the right analogy.

You could maybe make the case for our history against NDSU alone but it's different in multiple ways as well. Besides being shorter (so far), they aren't a traditional rival and they aren't even in the conference. In the other direction, every time we've played them has been a playoff game. One thing that both "streaks" have in common is that each loss ended our season.

[rfischer94]

I wasn't paying attention during the streak so its possible that this is a bad analogy. Is the Bobcats' repeated losses to the XDSUs this generation's "streak?"

We beat SDSU in 2021 so no, it's not the right analogy.

You could maybe make the case for our history against NDSU alone but it's different in multiple ways as well. Besides being shorter (so far), they aren't a traditional rival and they aren't even in the conference. In the other direction, every time we've played them has been a playoff game. One thing that both "streaks" have in common is that each loss ended our season.

[PapaG]

:
Didn’t know where else to put this, but I am very impressed with the image that Dan Jackson portrayed in all of the media I saw of him prior to the game and also the interviews at halftime and end of fame. He just seems to get it and have something that will lead him to a decent FCS job in the future.

I know living in Brookings sounds terrible, but to say being HC of SDSU (apparently in the top tier of just 2 teams, according to this thread) isn't a decent FCS job is WILD! (had to poke a little fun at your typo since this thread is a bit heated)

Whoops, meant FBS. My bad!

[Cataholic]

So out of the 40 some posters in this thread, basically 1 or 2 want coaches to be fired. Pretty much sums up just how much grish8 is out of his mind.

[RICO CAT]

[RickRund]

In years past I would be fuming on the way home to Helena about incompetence or poor coaching or players that are not competing. We have enjoyed the last 4 years of the best teams we have ever had at MSU including the championship years (because of how players have been getting better and better).

Last night didn't even bother me. I enjoyed the game immensely. I was disappointed at the fumbles, but the game was fabulous!

SDSU is a great team. That will be proven later on in this year. Vigen has given us some of the best fan experience of my 76 years. That started in 1966 with Jim Sweeney, Dennis Erickson, Jan Stenerud and Don Hass. Just look at the attendance. You are crazy to question our coach. He feels worse than you that the game went as it did. Do you think his coaching made us fumble or kept us from scoring touchdown like Tommy did? Thank the Bobcat gods for Brent Vigen!

Great post!

[catzz]

This entire thread is bogus. Bad look for recruits, parents etc. I think all just put Mr griz lover on block and quit wasting our time. After Cats win this weekend with 300 plus yards of rushing he will be quite for 3 months yet again..

[Catprint]

OMG

1) Vigen as Head Coach

a. Coach of the year – only Bobcat coach to win the Eddie Robinson award and only Bobcat who got coach of the year in last 40 years.
b. FCS Central – Zach McKinnell, the reigning king of FCS knowledge along with his statistical genus, Timothy Rosario - Long podcast in spring of 2025. Top 10 coaches in the FCS - Vigen #1 – no question.
c. Win/Loss Record – Unsurpassed in Bobcat history.
d. Last 4 years
* Semis – 3 times
* Natty Appearances -2 times
* No other Bobcat coach anywhere near that record.

2) FCS Champions Discussion. Yes, everyone wants the golden ring but…

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

[JoeCatsJoe]

OMG

1) Vigen as Head Coach

a. Coach of the year – only Bobcat coach to win the Eddie Robinson award and only Bobcat who got coach of the year in last 40 years.
b. FCS Central – Zach McKinnell, the reigning king of FCS knowledge along with his statistical genus, Timothy Rosario - Long podcast in spring of 2025. Top 10 coaches in the FCS - Vigen #1 – no question.
c. Win/Loss Record – Unsurpassed in Bobcat history.
d. Last 4 years
* Semis – 3 times
* Natty Appearances -2 times
* No other Bobcat coach anywhere near that record.

2) FCS Champions Discussion. Yes, everyone wants the golden ring but…

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

Great post. My sentiments exactly!

[tdub]

OMG

1) Vigen as Head Coach

a. Coach of the year – only Bobcat coach to win the Eddie Robinson award and only Bobcat who got coach of the year in last 40 years.
b. FCS Central – Zach McKinnell, the reigning king of FCS knowledge along with his statistical genus, Timothy Rosario - Long podcast in spring of 2025. Top 10 coaches in the FCS - Vigen #1 – no question.
c. Win/Loss Record – Unsurpassed in Bobcat history.
d. Last 4 years
* Semis – 3 times
* Natty Appearances -2 times
* No other Bobcat coach anywhere near that record.

2) FCS Champions Discussion. Yes, everyone wants the golden ring but…

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

To add on:
- attendance of games is at record level.
- team gpa’s are always good
- off field problems are minimal and swiftly dealt with
- high level of community involvement
- team culture is strong

The programs that can say all these things are true can be counted on one hand, and probably have a finger or two to spare.

The ultimate responsibility of a head coach is to win football games, of course. But there is so much more to it than that. Vigen has done an excellent job building and maintaining a top level program through an extra tumultuous time in college football.

Those calling for a firing are either trolling, which is most likely, or simply don’t understand the realities and challenges of coaching at the FCS level.

[gris_h8er]

Oregon doesn’t count. I personally have nothing to say about it they were the number one team in the country for multiple weeks last year. Outlier and irrelevant. Losing to a dsu for the 6th time during his tenure is frustrating. His objectives 1 and 1a have not yet been achieved. So what’s his timeline? How long is too long? Is he capable of achieving the objectives cited in his hiring? Who knows but I’m skeptical.

As far as your ramblings about the roster. It’s a good roster and the kids played well. Blaming the loss to sdsu on losing guys is baseless. Kids graduate, kids transfer, welcome to college football. I personally think Vigen manages the roster very well in the new era of college football. I don’t like how he coaches games. I don’t like his game plans. I don’t like that after three OCs the offense looks the same and calls the same plays in situations those plays have no place. I saw kids achieving to their ability levels the kids were let down by coaching.

You can act indignant about what you perceive to be my belief that I am “owed” a title but the fact is he was hired to accomplish a goal. If he can’t it’s time to look elsewhere for leadership.

Truth is it takes talent and diligence to get where we are. But fortune still plays a big part in whether that finally translates all the way to the top.

Can’t control fortune and freak things, no one is upset with things out of anyone else’s control.

Things that can be controlled:
1) safe vs regular punt when punting from your own end (what makes this objectively more stupid is the block by Oregon) I’m no expert but sdsu probably had it on film
1a) not adding a third protector especially deep in your own end after getting the two protector failure on film with Oregon. You think sdsu was excited when they saw two protectors again in the second game?
2)a quarterback who isn’t Tommy with more carries than Julius Davis
3)conservative and historically ineffective play calls on 4th and 1. 3rd and 1 against NDSU to name a couple. How many times has Mr. Conservative (the greatest coach in Bobcat history) gotten stuffed on a need to convert down against a dsu?
4) playing for a field goal against Idaho at half time and again against sdsu which arguably lost both games
5)not using tight ends to pressure their tight safeties by attacking down the field with talented tight ends and a quarterback that from what I saw can throw well

[gris_h8er]

This entire thread is bogus. Bad look for recruits, parents etc. I think all just put Mr griz lover on block and quit wasting our time. After Cats win this weekend with 300 plus yards of rushing he will be quite for 3 months yet again..

Beat dsus and the gris in Missoula and I’ll be proven wrong about Vigen. I hope I’m wrong and he smokes the gris and one or both of the dsus in the playoffs. If he doesn’t then a pattern is emerging and it needs to be addressed.

Implying I’m a gris fan when truthfully I’d rather be caught in the gears of a combine because I’m questioning Vigen’s ability to beat a dsu is some impressive mental gymnastics. You can check the evidence on this one but his record against the dsus isn’t very good.

[BelligerentBobcat]

This entire thread is bogus. Bad look for recruits, parents etc. I think all just put Mr griz lover on block and quit wasting our time. After Cats win this weekend with 300 plus yards of rushing he will be quite for 3 months yet again..

Beat dsus and the gris in Missoula and I’ll be proven wrong about Vigen. I hope I’m wrong and he smokes the gris and one or both of the dsus in the playoffs. If he doesn’t then a pattern is emerging and it needs to be addressed.

Implying I’m a gris fan when truthfully I’d rather be caught in the gears of a combine because I’m questioning Vigen’s ability to beat a dsu is some impressive mental gymnastics. You can check the evidence on this one but his record against the dsus isn’t very good.

He has beaten a DSU in the playoffs.

[BgCATfan]

This entire thread is bogus. Bad look for recruits, parents etc. I think all just put Mr griz lover on block and quit wasting our time. After Cats win this weekend with 300 plus yards of rushing he will be quite for 3 months yet again..

Beat dsus and the gris in Missoula and I’ll be proven wrong about Vigen. I hope I’m wrong and he smokes the gris and one or both of the dsus in the playoffs. If he doesn’t then a pattern is emerging and it needs to be addressed.

Implying I’m a gris fan when truthfully I’d rather be caught in the gears of a combine because I’m questioning Vigen’s ability to beat a dsu is some impressive mental gymnastics. You can check the evidence on this one but his record against the dsus isn’t very good.

Tell us who you think is realistically attainable and can accomplish all that Coach V has AND beat the DSU's and the Griz consistently?

[91catAlum]

This entire thread is bogus. Bad look for recruits, parents etc. I think all just put Mr griz lover on block and quit wasting our time. After Cats win this weekend with 300 plus yards of rushing he will be quite for 3 months yet again..

Beat dsus and the gris in Missoula and I’ll be proven wrong about Vigen. I hope I’m wrong and he smokes the gris and one or both of the dsus in the playoffs. If he doesn’t then a pattern is emerging and it needs to be addressed.

Implying I’m a gris fan when truthfully I’d rather be caught in the gears of a combine because I’m questioning Vigen’s ability to beat a dsu is some impressive mental gymnastics. You can check the evidence on this one but his record against the dsus isn’t very good.

He has beaten a DSU in the playoffs.

Once in 5 tries, and sdsu wasn't even seeded that year, they won two road games to make the semi's that year.

Vigen is a great coach, I hope he stays as many years as he wants. But he seems to have a dsu problem. Even the griz have beaten ndsu once or twice. Could be an anomaly but it keeps happening, so at some point you gotta ask why. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Hawks86]

Once in 5 tries, and sdsu wasn't even seeded that year, they won two road games to make the semi's that year.

Vigen is a great coach, I hope he stays as many years as he wants. But he seems to have a dsu problem. Even the griz have beaten ndsu once or twice. Could be an anomaly but it keeps happening, so at some point you gotta ask why. I don't think that's unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable to ask why. That's not what egriz's new poster boy is doing. Even when we beat the gris in Missoula, this year, it is still a fire able offense by losing to SDSU.

[ilovethecats]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.