How do Cats stack up against Griz

[Montanabob]

Even more impressive because as you alluded to in regards to our turnovers yesterday, all our backups are playing in the 4th quarter nearly every game. While griz starters are in late throwing the ball because the game is in jeopardy. We have our backups in just running the ball and keeping the clock running. Ha.

And despite getting less run because it's less necessary, Lamson has still accounted for 2438 total yards and 26 total touchdowns to Ah Yat's 2839 total yards and 26 total touchdowns.

If you look at just BSC play, Lamson has 1553 total yards and 21 total touchdowns to Ah Yat's 1626 total yards and 13 total touchdowns.

That’s weird, I keep hearing how KAH is the second coming of Dave Dickensen.

For being a RS Sophomore and being at the FCS level, he’s having an incredible year. I don’t begrudge the hype. I just think MSU’s guy is better.

If I have a quibble, it’s that it kind of gets glossed how he struggles once they run out of scripted offense.

and ewu had a true freshman ...

[onceacat]

Conference Only: 6 games played each
(I bolded and underlined all the areas UM leads MSU)

Points
MSU - 49.0
UM - 37.8

Points Allowed
MSU 10.8
UM 25.5

Total Offense
MSU 7.6 ypp/502.5 ypg
UM 6.4 ypp/437.0 ypg

Total Defense
MSU 4.2/282.3
UM 5.7/414.5

Rush Offense
MSU 6.3/270.0
UM 4.4/156.7

Rush Defense
MSU 3.2/89.5
UM 3.2/96.3

Pass Offense
MSU 9.8/232.3
UM 8.5/280.3

Pass Defense
MSU 5.0/192.8
UM 7.4/318.2

Pass Efficiency Offense
MSU 188.0
UM 151.1

Pass Efficiency Defense
MSU 100.7
UM 125.8

Whats really striking here is the 2.1 yards per play discrepancy in Rush Offense. I've taken it as a matter of fact that Gillman is the best RB in the conference, but the statistics prove otherwise. MSU has FOUR guys with higher yards per carry than Gilman. Jones & Davis both average 2 yards per carry more than Gilman.

The other standout is the 193 to 150 passer rating from Lamson to KAY. Again, lots of people are acting like KAY is a Payton finalist, but Lamson's actual production is light years better.

One could go further down the rabbit hole.

3rd Down Conversions
53%/39%

4th Down Conversions
75%/69%

Red Zone Offense
Cats 6.0 points per RZ/Gris 5.9 points per trip

The numbers just aren't even close.

Huh? Gilman is averaging more YPC than Jones.

The thing you’re missing is that our OL and our run scheme is better than theirs. That makes a huge difference for a RB. I love our guys, but Gilman is the better RB.

Conference Only

Gillman 5.5 ypc/97.5 ypg (8th w/50 or more carries/3rd in ypg all players)
Davis 7.7/79.8 (1/6)
Jones 7.2/76.3 (3/9)
Wortham 5.7/29.3 (/29)
Coon 8.1/26.8 (/33)
Rocker 4.0/14.7 (/46)
White 4.5/12.0 (/48)

Yes, MSU's run game is better than UM's. When you look at RBs only, we're still better at 195/game to 141/game; 7.4 ypc to 5.4. Who cares if Gillman would run for more yards if he was on MSU.

I mean, obviously ANY RB would run for more yards behind the DonJoy mafia than behind the Panda Yield Signs.

Would that be enough for Gilman to top 8 ypc? That seems extreme.

Would Davis or Jones be running for under 5 ypc behind the Pandas? Again, seems like a lot.

I don't mean that as a knock on Gilman, hes obviously a stud. Its just not at all clear that hes the best RB in the state, let alone the country.

[MrGoodKat]

Even more impressive because as you alluded to in regards to our turnovers yesterday, all our backups are playing in the 4th quarter nearly every game. While griz starters are in late throwing the ball because the game is in jeopardy. We have our backups in just running the ball and keeping the clock running. Ha.

And despite getting less run because it's less necessary, Lamson has still accounted for 2438 total yards and 26 total touchdowns to Ah Yat's 2839 total yards and 26 total touchdowns.

If you look at just BSC play, Lamson has 1553 total yards and 21 total touchdowns to Ah Yat's 1626 total yards and 13 total touchdowns.

That’s weird, I keep hearing how KAH is the second coming of Dave Dickensen.

For being a RS Sophomore and being at the FCS level, he’s having an incredible year. I don’t begrudge the hype. I just think MSU’s guy is better.

If I have a quibble, it’s that it kind of gets glossed how he struggles once they run out of scripted offense.

and ewu had a true freshman ...

Sure, but the KAY hype is based on more than one game. He’s having a very good season. I think it’s getting overhyped in Missoula because they have been waiting so long for a good, homegrown QB. But I’m not going to pretend he isn’t good.

[ilovethecats]

The Oregon game isn’t “irrelevant” when Gris fans are using W/L record as a point of comparison.

UM hasn’t played anyone like Oregon, or even SDSU when they were healthy, and that’s really what matters in the SOS argument if W/L record matters.

The “best” team UM played is probably UND, and they just got beaten by a 4-loss team.

Sure, it's relevant in the sense that it accounts for one of the losses and therefore the Cats only have one loss that really deserves to be considered.

However, it's irrelevant in the sense that it won't be counted against MSU in ranking or seeding and therefore it doesn't make sense to cite it for the sake of SOS resume building.

I'll put it this way:

MSU's resume is not and should not be harmed by the fact that they have a road loss to a highly ranked FBS team.

Also, MSU's resume is not and should not be enhanced by the fact that they went to Eugene and got their doors blown off.

So throw out that loss for the Cats and throw out the Central Washington game for the Griz. Where does that leave them? With essentially comparable schedules:

-Both teams have played 5 conference games, 2 at home and 3 on the road; the collective records of the two opponent sets are identical at 18-27.

-Both teams have played good MVFC team at home that has recently fallen on hard times.

-Both teams have played two weak FCS teams OOC-- Mercyhurst and USD for the Cats; ISU and SH for the Griz.

So the SOS in my mind is basically identical. The difference is that the Griz won their game against UND narrowly and the Cats lost their game against SDSU narrowly. So I have no problem with the Griz being ranked ahead of MSU.

However, I also have no doubt that the Cats are the better team given how much better they've performed in conference play.

It’s going to be a fun rivalry game. It’s interesting that you have no doubt, yet the FCS coaches and the FCS writers who cover the game professionally see the Griz as the better team.

Any doubts today? If not you’re delusional

No doubts today. The Cats lost at home to a team (SDSU) that might not even make the playoffs.

It’s official. You are nothing more than a troll. Cats beat EWU 57-3. You guys EWU by 5 at home on a fumbled spike by their third string QB. What a joke. You have lots to celebrate but you would rather troll on the Cats board. Textbook definition of loser.

I answered the question that was asked of me. The Cats lost at home to a team (SDSU) that has lost to Indiana State, South Dakota and (SDSU) might not even make the playoffs. Cat fans seem to think the SDSU loss, plus the near-60-point loss to Oregon, are bragging points for SOS. LOL. Whatevs. The Griz haven’t lost to anyone. The Brawl will be fun.

I know you’re trolling, but should you consider to try to have a decent conversation, why don’t you start by listing all the starters for SDSU that are injured compared to when they played at MSU. Your argument also isn’t allowing for any growth to happen during a season, and I think we all know that MSU has dramatically improved since the first two games.

I don’t know how to highlight a sentence. Your last sentence IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT.

Yep BB hit it out of the park. They say we lost to the one good FCS team we played. Now that SDSU has injuries including their starting qb and has lost a couple, they’re not good. Forgetting the fact they were good and #2 in the nation when we played them. But we lost so we don’t get credit for losing to a tough team.

Meanwhile Idaho when they played the griz they’re calling good. Despite the fact that they’re terrible. And UND was this amazing team! Despite being 6-4. But they played the Bison tough! But they lost. lol. So UND is very good cause they played the griz and Bison tough before losing. But SDSU isn’t tough because they’re losing regardless of why. And NAU isn’t good despite the same record as UND and likely a playoff team.

I LOVE this time of year !!

[BelligerentBobcat]

I’ll say what I said a couple weeks ago. The griz offense is good. I’m just not see what oldgriz is seeing that they are the obvious number one offense in the league.

Seems like our O has put up more points than theirs in league play. The common opponents we’ve played we’ve killed and they’ve let hang around.

Ah yat and other starters are good no doubt. I won’t bash on players. They look good. But numbers wise their starters get to play all game cause they can’t put anyone away.

I ask again, mainly to griz fans and especially to oldgriz claiming the griz are easily the better offense; what do they do that makes them better? Numbers don’t support it really and either do results of games.

I won’t even touch on the defense cause that isn’t close. I didn’t see final numbers but looks like that D gave up another 400 yards or so today. To a young kid. In their defense they stepped up when needed or a very bad eastern team had a chance to beat them!

In two weeks the 2 things I literally fear most is Washington Grizzly; and rowdy fans.

I know there has been talk about stats and all, but didn’t the Eags out stat the gris.

Yes.
STAT. EWU. um.
Tot yds. 479. 351
1st downs. 27. 13
3rd down. 11/21. 1/10
Time poss. 38m. 22m

Ewu was -2 in turnovers.

EWU also somehow almost doubled up UM in total plays. They were awful on the first 2 downs downs and then they’d convert 3rd and longs.

[Cataholic]

I’ll say what I said a couple weeks ago. The griz offense is good. I’m just not see what oldgriz is seeing that they are the obvious number one offense in the league.

Seems like our O has put up more points than theirs in league play. The common opponents we’ve played we’ve killed and they’ve let hang around.

Ah yat and other starters are good no doubt. I won’t bash on players. They look good. But numbers wise their starters get to play all game cause they can’t put anyone away.

I ask again, mainly to griz fans and especially to oldgriz claiming the griz are easily the better offense; what do they do that makes them better? Numbers don’t support it really and either do results of games.

I won’t even touch on the defense cause that isn’t close. I didn’t see final numbers but looks like that D gave up another 400 yards or so today. To a young kid. In their defense they stepped up when needed or a very bad eastern team had a chance to beat them!

In two weeks the 2 things I literally fear most is Washington Grizzly; and rowdy fans.

I know there has been talk about stats and all, but didn’t the Eags out stat the gris.

Yes.
STAT. EWU. um.
Tot yds. 479. 351
1st downs. 27. 13
3rd down. 11/21. 1/10
Time poss. 38m. 22m

Ewu was -2 in turnovers.

And MSU beat EWU 57 to 3. And the Gris were at home!

[Robert Martin]

MSU is (for the most part) putting teams away & resting starters for large portions of the 4th quarter is pretty significant.

Are we sure this is correct? Cause I’ve read many times on egriz that we keep our starters in the game late in blowouts to pad our stats……..

Absolutely correct. Don’t fall for the griz narrative of us leaving offensive starters in the 4th quarter to run up scores. That is completely false! I’ve watched both teams games in their entirety and gone through the play-by-play breakdown of both teams games to date. Cats have had to leave starters in deep into the 4th quarter 3 of 10 games and Griz have had to keep their starters in deep into the 4th quarter for 6 of 10 games. On average, Cats sit Lamson at the 14 minute mark in the 4th. I won’t waste my time looking at the defensive side…we have rotated 20+ on that side of the ball ALL 4 quarters ALL season! A nice little bonus too is the Griz will have played 11 in a row by Cat/griz. They are beat up with minimal depth. For Cat/griz game, Cats need to show up and play with their hair on fire to match the games beginning intensity. They do that and we boat race em!

Oh I agree. I was being sarcastic. Just another ridiculous thing they’re saying over there. I guess to justify why our offense is somehow equal or better than their incredible offense in nearly every statistical category. It’s can’t be because our offense is just as good as theirs. Maybe better? No, it HAS to be that we just keep our starters in way to long in games we’ve blown them out!

Here’s where you’re finally wrong ILTC. MSU’s offense is not just as good as theirs or equal to theirs in any facet.

There is not a single thing on offense they do better than we do. Not one.

Where do we start? You realize that going into Saturday, in conference play, the Montana offense has scored more points, passed for more yards, committed fewer penalties, and has turned the ball over less than the Cats. I’m sure there are more things than just those four where Montana has done better than the Cats. Of course, this weekend’s play may have affected some stats, and we shall see when the conference website updates its team totals.

Heading into yesterday's games, MSU had scored 228 points in BSC play to UM's 198. After yesterday's games, those numbers are 294 and 227 respectively.

MSU also came into yesterday with 2 turnovers in BSC play to UM's 4. They now both have 4, but only because the Cats' backup QB fumbled twice in garbage time.

MSU's offense has been drastically superior to UM's in conference. There's no way around that. The gap between the defenses has been even bigger.

You are just wrong.

https://bigskyconf.com/stats.aspx?path= ... &year=2025

Here are the conference stats, notice the number of games vs yours. You don’t even know how to work the website. https://bigskyconf.com/stats.aspx?path= ... &conf=true

[Catprint]

Sam Herder of Hero Sports released his ballot. Here are his comments. Guess he has been reading this thread all week long! Point. Set. Match.

I flipped Montana State and Montana at No. 2 and 3. MSU looks like a more complete team lately and is playing more complete games, dominating common opponents that the Grizzlies have struggled to put away. I still lean Montana getting the No. 2 seed with it hosting MSU in the Brawl of the Wild, where the home squad has been a decided favorite. But on a neutral field, the Cats look like a better outfit, and that’s how I’ll rank it. The only rankings that matter, of course, are the playoff committee’s. And they are higher on MSU as well.

[Catprint]

Oh, and I know stats don't matter but here is Massey's latest release. Personally, I like the opportunity to jerk a chain here and there. And yes, all of us know what happens on the field is all that matters. But all these stats/rankings/polls etc. certainly have some reflection on what is happening on the field! And yes, the Gris could easily be #2 in the Stats poll on Monday because a large percentage of the voters don't watch the games but simply "slot vote". You win you stay in place unless someone loses who is ranked nearby and they are slotted down and you move up. Doesn't matter how good or how poorly you played, doesn't matter how good or how bad was the competition because as OldGriz says "The only stat that matters is 10-0".