How do Cats stack up against Griz

[MrGoodKat]

I guarantee you that anytime the Griz beat the Cats, if the Cats happen to have more Montana kids in that particular year, Bobcatnation commenters will say, “Sure, look at all the portal ringers in Missoula.” And then you’ll have some explaining to do. LOL. It’s a nonsense discussion. The only reason I partook is I thought BobcatBuiltTexan raised a good point that sometimes not carrying a lifetime of rivalry baggage into that game can be a good thing for some players.

You agreed with BBT because it is a rosy perspective on the portal merry-go-round that Bobby has developed in Missoula. If roles were reversed, and it was the Griz will almost all the good MT players, you would have disagreed with him and advocated the importance of having good in-state players.

The Griz could definitely win the Brawl this year, despite the discrepancy. I wouldn't even argue with them being favored, given what homefield has meant in recent years. And besides that, they're clearly very good. But if it happens, you're not going to see many/any Cat fans saying "it's because of the portal!" Virtually no one is jealous of that model of team building. It's way more exciting to root for a team that's really young and already performing better in BSC play than the senior laden roster in MSO. By roster composition, the Griz ought to be way ahead of the Cats right now. If you have three times as many seniors than another team and they're as good or better than you are, your approach to team-building sucks.

So you predict a Griz win.

I think it's reasonable to predict a Griz win given that the home team has dominated for four straight years, even in an instance when the visiting team turned out to be better in the big picture (2021).

Now there’s a real evasion. LOL. You are preparing an opportunity to say, if needed, “Even though your team beat us, my team is still better.” LOL. Then why do they play the football games?

It’s not an evasion, it’s hedging. There’s a difference.

The 2016 Bobcats had one conference win and then came into Missoula and beat the Griz. Do you really think they were the better overall team? I don’t.

If you could just decide winners and losers based on who is better overall, then your question would be appropriate: why even play the games?

[OldGriz]

We love our Montana players, but we all know that we cant be competitive with only Montana players.

Having a significant amount Montana is more about support than anything. Without them we don't have the statewide support that is needed to be competitive at this level.

To me that is the biggest advantage of having Montana players, the out of state players soon learn the importance of the rivalry.

You nailed it.

[profisme]

What stands out to me is that the Cats have just gotten better and better. They've gelled as a team, playing complementary football in all facets. They've put teams away that the griz struggled to beat. And two of those teams should have won those games, EWU and ISU, with EWU fumbling the spike attempt and ISU having just horrible play calling on their last possession. Neither of those games came down to the gruz playing better, they basically got lucky.
If the game is close, it'll come down to mistakes, being in Missoula, and the magical way the griz get lucky when they shouldn't. If the Cats continue to produce like they have, like being 90-0 in the 3rd quarter as I read on another thread, it could be a blowout and Vigen will get his first win in Missoula.

If the Cats can put 90 points up in the 3rd quarter against the Griz this year, I would almost guarantee a victory

almost? I will go out on a limb and fully guarantee it.

Too bold sir. The sun might not actually come up tomorrow either.

[Cataholic]

More than what state a player is from, home field advantage is the major factor. Noise, intimidation, travel, comfort level, etc all make this the key factor. If this game was in Bozeman, the Cats would be favored by 10+ points. And yet, the home team doesn’t win every time. I don’t think there is any question that the Cats are the better team this year, but playing in Missoula is a real challenge - just like playing in Bozeman is a real challenge for the PCP (Pacific Coast Pandas).

[RockyBearCat]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

I'm pissed that I finally got sucked into your crap, but you need to have your paralegal give you a refresher on the term Turnover. Clifton (Mr. Interception) McDowell threw 4 INTs in 2023 and Touchdown Tommy Mellott threw 2 INTs in 2023. I know you are just a dickhead gris fan, but let's be factual.

[OldGriz]

Not fair examples? You are kind of tossing Tommy under the bus there. You are saying we shouldn’t have expected him to play well because it was a big game?

I'm saying that Tommy got tight before virtually all big games, so using him as an example that's characteristic of all MT born players isn't really fair.

I never said one chokes, they all choke. Many, many, many Montana-born players in both programs rise to the occasion in the rivalry game. And so do many non-native Montanans. I think what you say about Tommy kind of illustrates TexasBuiltBobcat’s point. McDowell wasn’t raised in the heat (or the venom) of the rivalry, so he didn’t carry that kind of baggage to trip over.

Poor Ah Yat. Growing up as a legacy child of a Gris great who played in the game. The pressure of the rivalry has to be overwhelming. As you said, he will have lots of “baggage of the rivalry” to trip over.

You could be absolutely right. We’ll get to see because it’s why they play the game. If he’s wired like Tommy Turnover and throws to the wrong colored jersey in the big game, the Griz are toast.

[Cataholic]

Not fair examples? You are kind of tossing Tommy under the bus there. You are saying we shouldn’t have expected him to play well because it was a big game?

I'm saying that Tommy got tight before virtually all big games, so using him as an example that's characteristic of all MT born players isn't really fair.

I never said one chokes, they all choke. Many, many, many Montana-born players in both programs rise to the occasion in the rivalry game. And so do many non-native Montanans. I think what you say about Tommy kind of illustrates TexasBuiltBobcat’s point. McDowell wasn’t raised in the heat (or the venom) of the rivalry, so he didn’t carry that kind of baggage to trip over.

Poor Ah Yat. Growing up as a legacy child of a Gris great who played in the game. The pressure of the rivalry has to be overwhelming. As you said, he will have lots of “baggage of the rivalry” to trip over.

You could be absolutely right. We’ll get to see because it’s why they play the game. If he’s wired like Tommy Turnover and throws to the wrong colored jersey in the big game, the Griz are toast.

I just thought you would have more confidence in Ah Yuck. Another turncoat PCP Panda fan turning on their players. That sucks!

[MrGoodKat]

We love our Montana players, 1) but we all know that we cant be competitive with only Montana players.

Having a significant amount Montana is more about support than anything. Without them we don't have the statewide support that is needed to be competitive at this level.

2) To me that is the biggest advantage of having Montana players, the out of state players soon learn the importance of the rivalry.

1) This is definitely true. Does anyone try to make that case? Serious question.

2) In my opinion, the biggest advantage of having the best MT players is that it raises the overall level of talent of your team, especially along the LOS, with a high degree of consistency.

Just generally speaking, the top end high school recruits in the state of MT often end up being great football players at this level of college football. If you get the bulk of the top guys, you're making your football team a lot better than it would be otherwise.

Furthermore, MT born players transfer out at a much lower rate. If Taco Dowler isn't from Billings, he's almost certainly not still in Bozeman right now.

Finally, the hardest thing to find in college football is talented linemen. The supply is lower than other positions and the demand is higher. Landing and developing the best offensive and defensive linemen from the state of MT gives the Cats a great start and it is what has given them an edge over the Griz for years now.

Just at the moment, only from the 2-Deep, you're talking about: Braden Zimmer, Burke Mastel, Dylan Rollins, Everett Carr, Paul Brott, Kenny Eiden, Talon Marsh, and Zac Crews.

If you took 6 of those 8 guys and put them on UM's roster, that edge is gone (and then some).

[OldGriz]

Not fair examples? You are kind of tossing Tommy under the bus there. You are saying we shouldn’t have expected him to play well because it was a big game?

I'm saying that Tommy got tight before virtually all big games, so using him as an example that's characteristic of all MT born players isn't really fair.

I never said one chokes, they all choke. Many, many, many Montana-born players in both programs rise to the occasion in the rivalry game. And so do many non-native Montanans. I think what you say about Tommy kind of illustrates TexasBuiltBobcat’s point. McDowell wasn’t raised in the heat (or the venom) of the rivalry, so he didn’t carry that kind of baggage to trip over.

Poor Ah Yat. Growing up as a legacy child of a Gris great who played in the game. The pressure of the rivalry has to be overwhelming. As you said, he will have lots of “baggage of the rivalry” to trip over.

You could be absolutely right. We’ll get to see because it’s why they play the game. If he’s wired like Tommy Turnover and throws to the wrong colored jersey in the big game, the Griz are toast.

I just thought you would have more confidence in Ah Yuck. Another turncoat PCP Panda fan turning on their players. That sucks!

Where did I turn on him? I said we shall see. It’s funny how an open mind and objectivity are confusing to Bobcatnation. We won’t know until game day if he’s closer to his dad (whose 1997 performance in the rivalry game sent Cat fans into thumb-sucking floor fetal position for years) or closer to Mellott. I’m certainly hoping for the former.

[MrGoodKat]

You could be absolutely right. We’ll get to see because it’s why they play the game. If he’s wired like Tommy Turnover and throws to the wrong colored jersey in the big game, the Griz are toast.

I will not abide Tommy slander.

I realize he had a terrible day as a passer in MSO in 2023. He had one turnover.

In the two Brawls he started in Bozeman, he accounted for 389 yards of offense, 4 total touchdowns, and no turnovers.

[The Butcher]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

Only griz fans would proudly shell out cash for shirts calling their own rivalry game the wrong name and then brag about it. Imagine the money the tennis team could’ve made selling 'Gris' shirts.

[The Butcher]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

Proof that you don’t have to be from Montana to get emotional about the rivalry — just ask Choke Artist Dalton Snead.

[OldGriz]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

Proof that you don’t have to be from Montana to get emotional about the rivalry — just ask Choke Artist Dalton Snead.

Proof that you have to be from Montana to gain the edge in the rivalry game — just ask Jake Bleskin. It’s a silly topic. There’s no there there.

[Joe Bobcat]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

Proof that you don’t have to be from Montana to get emotional about the rivalry — just ask Choke Artist Dalton Snead.

Proof that you have to be from Montana to gain the edge in the rivalry game — just ask Jake Bleskin. It’s a silly topic. There’s no there there.

And yet you keep coming back "there" with your pathetic silly examples basically trashing former athletes. Your posts continue to make you look like a small and petty person. Go find a hobby more worthy of a man of your heritage, stature and intelligence.

[OldGriz]

He brought up Sneed (20-for-34, 200 yds, 1 int). I brought up Bleskin (15-for-28, 145 yds, 5 int). The pearl clutching is impressive.

[RedClowder]

TrolledGriz must be about ready to hibernate with how much we’re feeding him on this board. Gotta be fat and happy as a pig in sh*t

[coloradocat]

TrolledGriz must be about ready to hibernate with how much we’re feeding him on this board. Gotta be fat and happy as a pig in sh*t

No, you don't get it. You're supposed to respond to everything he says and prove him wrong. Otherwise he'll never learn.

[RedClowder]

TrolledGriz must be about ready to hibernate with how much we’re feeding him on this board. Gotta be fat and happy as a pig in sh*t

No, you don't get it. You're supposed to respond to everything he says and prove him wrong. Otherwise he'll never learn.

See, I don’t think you get it. How’re you supposed to understand the stakes of the game while living in Denver? How could you possibly go down to the watch party at Brooklyn’s by Ball Arena and understand the passion of the Cat and Griz fans when you’re watching it outside of the Treasure State?? It just means more lol Go Cats!

[coloradocat]

TrolledGriz must be about ready to hibernate with how much we’re feeding him on this board. Gotta be fat and happy as a pig in sh*t

No, you don't get it. You're supposed to respond to everything he says and prove him wrong. Otherwise he'll never learn.

See, I don’t think you get it. How’re you supposed to understand the stakes of the game while living in Denver? How could you possibly go down to the watch party at Brooklyn’s by Ball Arena and understand the passion of the Cat and Griz fans when you’re watching it outside of the Treasure State?? It just means more lol Go Cats!

No, you don't get it. The Brooklyn's watch party is the largest in the country. We have plenty of rivalry game experience. We don't need to sit in some small town bar on a two lane highway in the middle of nowhere Montana to watch the game to know how important it is! We have pro sports down here! You have no idea how prepare we are to watch a game in a two story bar. We do this all year round!

[profisme]

TrolledGriz must be about ready to hibernate with how much we’re feeding him on this board. Gotta be fat and happy as a pig in sh*t

No, you don't get it. You're supposed to respond to everything he says and prove him wrong. Otherwise he'll never learn.

See, I don’t think you get it. How’re you supposed to understand the stakes of the game while living in Denver? How could you possibly go down to the watch party at Brooklyn’s by Ball Arena and understand the passion of the Cat and Griz fans when you’re watching it outside of the Treasure State?? It just means more lol Go Cats!

No, you don't get it. The Brooklyn's watch party is the largest in the country. We have plenty of rivalry game experience. We don't need to sit in some small town bar on a two lane highway in the middle of nowhere Montana to watch the game to know how important it is! We have pro sports down here! You have no idea how prepare we are to watch a game in a two story bar. We do this all year round!

The thing you don't understand is that if you haven't watched the Cat/Griz game in Banjo's in Scobey or at the Vida Bar, you haven't really gotten the full experience necessary to appreciate the game.