How do Cats stack up against Griz

[ilovethecats]

Wow this is stupid. Usually it's only the week of the game. I blame Oldgris.

Post of the Year nominee.

You’d think that the UC Davis game would be able to hold them off for awhile.

Some of us are capable of discussing two games at once.

I'm excited for Saturday night. Going to be electric and I'm looking forward to it. Cats will win by 25 and then we'll really be able to have more stupid conversations! With yours and Clowders permission of course.

[MrGoodKat]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

[ilovethecats]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

It's not really. And people like to drum up conversation. What you're saying is true and many former players and coaches would back you up.

To be clear my point isn't that you need to be from Montana. My OWN opinion, is that you need to understand the significance of this game. That's obviously easier for Montana kids as it's imbedded in their heads their whole lives. But not IMPOSSIBLE for our players from out of state. That isn't what I was trying to say with my initial comments to BBB. I understand his point about is possibly being a good thing to have those that may not really understand the scope of this game to play loose and not get caught up in the idea this game is bigger than the game. I have just seen this NOT be the case more often than it has been the case. When I hear comments about how big of stadiums kids played in high school, how they understand rivalries because they are from (insert rivalry here) territory, or how it's just another game on the schedule I immediately become wary.

Just my opinion and just discussion.

[TomCat88]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

That isn’t controversial. It just ignores the fact that many out of state players play out of their minds in Cat-Griz too. Or did I miss something?

Lulay and McGhee both win in Missoula as freshman. Groves in 2005. Crawford in 2008 in a loss actually shows out of mind play. Murray 2016 as a true freshman that just turned 18. Lasane huge runs in 16 and 17.

[OldGriz]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

[TomCat88]

No out of state players sans the relatives of former players are going to come to MSU understanding the significance of the rivalry. The players that they’ll most believe are the other now veteran OOS Players that had the same notion but now understand fully.

[coloradocat]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

It's not really. And people like to drum up conversation. What you're saying is true and many former players and coaches would back you up.

To be clear my point isn't that you need to be from Montana. My OWN opinion, is that you need to understand the significance of this game. That's obviously easier for Montana kids as it's imbedded in their heads their whole lives. But not IMPOSSIBLE for our players from out of state. That isn't what I was trying to say with my initial comments to BBB. I understand his point about is possibly being a good thing to have those that may not really understand the scope of this game to play loose and not get caught up in the idea this game is bigger than the game. I have just seen this NOT be the case more often than it has been the case. When I hear comments about how big of stadiums kids played in high school, how they understand rivalries because they are from (insert rivalry here) territory, or how it's just another game on the schedule I immediately become wary.

Just my opinion and just discussion.

I think it's possible that those of us that value having difference making MT players on the team are right and that BBT is right about non-MT players benefiting from their own background.

The potential issue with BBT's argument is that it brings a lot of Texas bravado, not realizing that his argument only applies to a select few TX guys, not everyone from there and definitely not all out of state players. There are probably a couple guys that can rise to the occasion because they've been in elite HS games/environments, but it's definitely not the norm.

The other views that MT players aren't a special factor or that non-MT players would beat MT players are bad faith arguments that can be written off. I don't know if this is to "drum up conversation" or just getting lost in one's own personal echo chamber but it's Oldgriz level content.

[MrGoodKat]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

[cats2506]

Just for fun I asked @GROK

Quick Overview of the Brawl of the WildThe Montana vs. Montana State rivalry—known as the Brawl of the Wild—is one of the most intense and historic in FCS football, dating back to 1897. It's the fourth-oldest FCS rivalry, with 123 meetings as of 2024. Historically, the Grizzlies hold a commanding edge (74-43-5 overall), but the Bobcats have dominated recently, winning four straight entering 2024 (including a 34-11 blowout that year). The game on November 22, 2025, in Missoula's Washington-Grizzly Stadium (aka "The Grizdome") will be the 124th edition and likely decides the Big Sky Conference title and playoff seeding. Both teams are playoff contenders, making this a high-stakes clash.Team Breakdown Entering Week 12Both squads are elite in the FCS, with Montana State ranked No. 2 and Montana No. 3 in the latest playoff committee rankings (as of early November 2025). Here's a snapshot of their 2025 seasons:Team
Record
Big Sky Record
Key Stats (Offense/Defense)
Notable Wins
Notable Losses
Montana State Bobcats
8-2
6-0
Off: 439.6 YPG (19th FCS), 33.5 PPG (22nd)
Def: 302.9 YPG allowed (top-10)
#13 Northern Arizona, Weber State (blowout)
Oregon (FBS), South Dakota State (#6)
Montana Grizzlies
9-1 (projected; 8-0 as of late Oct.)
5-0 (projected)
Off: 476.9 YPG (top-5), explosive passing (Ah Yat: 5 TD games)
Def: Strong vs. run, but vulnerable to big plays
#20 Eastern Washington, Sacramento State, Sacred Heart
None (undefeated until potential late slip)

Montana State Strengths: Brent Vigen's Bobcats are balanced and battle-tested, with a dominant run game (RB duo Adam Jones/Julius Davis: All-Big Sky talent) and a stingy defense (9.4 PPG allowed to FCS foes; led by sack leader Kenny Eiden IV). They're on an 8-game win streak, including high-scoring wins like 55-7 over Northern Colorado. QB Justin Lamson has been efficient in the dual-threat system.
Montana Strengths: Bobby Hauck's Grizzlies are undefeated (or near it) through most of the season, fueled by QB Keali'i Ah Yat's arm (career-high 5 TD passes in games) and playmakers like WR Michael Wortham (multi-TD threat). Their offense is the most efficient in the Big Sky, averaging explosive drives. Home-field advantage in the Grizdome is massive—Montana is 235-37 there historically (.864 win %).
Injuries/Trends: No major injuries reported in recent previews, but Montana State's depth on the lines gives them an edge in trenches. The Grizzlies have snapped recent rivalry skids before (e.g., 2023 win), but Bobcats' momentum is peaking.

My Prediction: Montana State Wins 31-27 I think the Montana State Bobcats pull out a close road victory. Their recent dominance in the series (4-1 last 5), superior defensive efficiency, and balanced attack should overcome the Grizdome's noise. Montana's offense is potent, but the Bobcats' front seven disrupts rhythm—expect Lamson to manage the game with runs and short passes, while holding Ah Yat under 250 yards. This keeps MSU unbeaten in conference and earns them the Big Sky crown.It's razor-thin, though: If Montana starts fast (they score 21+ in Q1 often), they could flip it for a 28-24 upset. Either way, expect a classic—playoff implications on the line! What do you think—Griz fan or Bobcat blue?

[OldGriz]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

I’ll bite. It’s a mythical question because there is no “everything else is equal” scenario in the real world, so I’ll go with my heart, and I’ll say I want all Montana players filling both teams’ rosters because I’m a Montana guy. But I have no proof that the Montana kids play better football than kids we could welcome from out of state.

[MrGoodKat]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

I’ll bite. It’s a mythical question because there is no “everything else is equal” scenario in the real world, so I’ll go with my heart, and I’ll say I want all Montana players filling both teams’ rosters because I’m a Montana guy. But I have no proof that the Montana kids play better football than kids we could welcome from out of state.

This is an evasion.

Personally, I hope as many people as possible associated with UM’s program are as ambivalent as you are about the in-state recruiting battle.

The Griz will never “return to dominance” with any consistency as long as they’re getting dominated by MSU in this regard.

[OldGriz]

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

Ok so let me put it to you this way.

If everything else is equal (overall quality of players, schematic approach, etc.) and the Griz are heading into the Brawl, would you prefer that have zero key players from MT, lots of key players from MT, or no preference?

I'm still curious to know your answer.

I’ll bite. It’s a mythical question because there is no “everything else is equal” scenario in the real world, so I’ll go with my heart, and I’ll say I want all Montana players filling both teams’ rosters because I’m a Montana guy. But I have no proof that the Montana kids play better football than kids we could welcome from out of state.

This is an evasion.

Personally, I hope as many people as possible associated with UM’s program are as ambivalent as you are about the in-state recruiting battle.

The Griz will never “return to dominance” with any consistency as long as they’re getting dominated by MSU in this regard.

I guarantee you that anytime the Griz beat the Cats, if the Cats happen to have more Montana kids in that particular year, Bobcatnation commenters will say, “Sure, look at all the portal ringers in Missoula.” And then you’ll have some explaining to do. LOL. It’s a nonsense discussion. The only reason I partook is I thought BobcatBuiltTexan raised a good point that sometimes not carrying a lifetime of rivalry baggage into that game can be a good thing for some players.

[MrGoodKat]

I guarantee you that anytime the Griz beat the Cats, if the Cats happen to have more Montana kids in that particular year, Bobcatnation commenters will say, “Sure, look at all the portal ringers in Missoula.” And then you’ll have some explaining to do. LOL. It’s a nonsense discussion. The only reason I partook is I thought BobcatBuiltTexan raised a good point that sometimes not carrying a lifetime of rivalry baggage into that game can be a good thing for some players.

You agreed with BBT because it is a rosy perspective on the portal merry-go-round that Bobby has developed in Missoula. If roles were reversed, and it was the Griz will almost all the good MT players, you would have disagreed with him and advocated the importance of having good in-state players.

The Griz could definitely win the Brawl this year, despite the discrepancy. I wouldn't even argue with them being favored, given what homefield has meant in recent years. And besides that, they're clearly very good. But if it happens, you're not going to see many/any Cat fans saying "it's because of the portal!" Virtually no one is jealous of that model of team building. It's way more exciting to root for a team that's really young and already performing better in BSC play than the senior laden roster in MSO. By roster composition, the Griz ought to be way ahead of the Cats right now. If you have three times as many seniors than another team and they're as good or better than you are, your approach to team-building sucks.

[RockyBearCat]

What stands out to me is that the Cats have just gotten better and better. They've gelled as a team, playing complementary football in all facets. They've put teams away that the griz struggled to beat. And two of those teams should have won those games, EWU and ISU, with EWU fumbling the spike attempt and ISU having just horrible play calling on their last possession. Neither of those games came down to the gruz playing better, they basically got lucky.
If the game is close, it'll come down to mistakes, being in Missoula, and the magical way the griz get lucky when they shouldn't. If the Cats continue to produce like they have, like being 90-0 in the 3rd quarter as I read on another thread, it could be a blowout and Vigen will get his first win in Missoula.

If the Cats can put 90 points up in the 3rd quarter against the Griz this year, I would almost guarantee a victory

almost? I will go out on a limb and fully guarantee it.

[OldGriz]

I guarantee you that anytime the Griz beat the Cats, if the Cats happen to have more Montana kids in that particular year, Bobcatnation commenters will say, “Sure, look at all the portal ringers in Missoula.” And then you’ll have some explaining to do. LOL. It’s a nonsense discussion. The only reason I partook is I thought BobcatBuiltTexan raised a good point that sometimes not carrying a lifetime of rivalry baggage into that game can be a good thing for some players.

You agreed with BBT because it is a rosy perspective on the portal merry-go-round that Bobby has developed in Missoula. If roles were reversed, and it was the Griz will almost all the good MT players, you would have disagreed with him and advocated the importance of having good in-state players.

The Griz could definitely win the Brawl this year, despite the discrepancy. I wouldn't even argue with them being favored, given what homefield has meant in recent years. And besides that, they're clearly very good. But if it happens, you're not going to see many/any Cat fans saying "it's because of the portal!" Virtually no one is jealous of that model of team building. It's way more exciting to root for a team that's really young and already performing better in BSC play than the senior laden roster in MSO. By roster composition, the Griz ought to be way ahead of the Cats right now. If you have three times as many seniors than another team and they're as good or better than you are, your approach to team-building sucks.

So you predict a Griz win.

[TomCat88]

I think I know what you’re trying to say because you obviously aren’t being literal. Darn near every team in the FBS top ten is non-MT players. I think anyone with a lick of common sense could put together a team with those players that would destroy the all MT team.

"All else being equal" was my attempt to be clear that I don't think having a roster with a lot of MT-born players on it just trumps everything else. If Ohio State put on Griz uniforms and played against the Cats in Missoula, we all know very well what would happen. This is why, in my first post on this topic, I listed the MT player factor as one of multiple and explicitly said that I think either team could win this game.

My point is and has been that having more MT players is more advantageous in this game than having less. I believe this is true both because MT kids tend to play out of their minds in the Brawl AND because the team winning the in-state recruiting battle will tend to be more talented overall.

It is bizarre to me that this has proven to be controversial.

Not controversial. Simply unsubstantiated. For every example in favor of the argument, there is an example against it (see Clifton McDowell — Tommy Turnover example from 2023).

McDowell had one of the great quotes in Cat-Griz history. A reporter was doing the "what are you doing to prepare for the Cat-Griz? Are MT players helping you?" etc. He responded with something like, "Yeah, the Brawl of the Battle or Battle of the Brawl or whatever it's called is big game."

[MrGoodKat]

I guarantee you that anytime the Griz beat the Cats, if the Cats happen to have more Montana kids in that particular year, Bobcatnation commenters will say, “Sure, look at all the portal ringers in Missoula.” And then you’ll have some explaining to do. LOL. It’s a nonsense discussion. The only reason I partook is I thought BobcatBuiltTexan raised a good point that sometimes not carrying a lifetime of rivalry baggage into that game can be a good thing for some players.

You agreed with BBT because it is a rosy perspective on the portal merry-go-round that Bobby has developed in Missoula. If roles were reversed, and it was the Griz will almost all the good MT players, you would have disagreed with him and advocated the importance of having good in-state players.

The Griz could definitely win the Brawl this year, despite the discrepancy. I wouldn't even argue with them being favored, given what homefield has meant in recent years. And besides that, they're clearly very good. But if it happens, you're not going to see many/any Cat fans saying "it's because of the portal!" Virtually no one is jealous of that model of team building. It's way more exciting to root for a team that's really young and already performing better in BSC play than the senior laden roster in MSO. By roster composition, the Griz ought to be way ahead of the Cats right now. If you have three times as many seniors than another team and they're as good or better than you are, your approach to team-building sucks.

So you predict a Griz win.

I think it's reasonable to predict a Griz win given that the home team has dominated for four straight years, even in an instance when the visiting team turned out to be better in the big picture (2021).

[OldGriz]

I guarantee you that anytime the Griz beat the Cats, if the Cats happen to have more Montana kids in that particular year, Bobcatnation commenters will say, “Sure, look at all the portal ringers in Missoula.” And then you’ll have some explaining to do. LOL. It’s a nonsense discussion. The only reason I partook is I thought BobcatBuiltTexan raised a good point that sometimes not carrying a lifetime of rivalry baggage into that game can be a good thing for some players.

You agreed with BBT because it is a rosy perspective on the portal merry-go-round that Bobby has developed in Missoula. If roles were reversed, and it was the Griz will almost all the good MT players, you would have disagreed with him and advocated the importance of having good in-state players.

The Griz could definitely win the Brawl this year, despite the discrepancy. I wouldn't even argue with them being favored, given what homefield has meant in recent years. And besides that, they're clearly very good. But if it happens, you're not going to see many/any Cat fans saying "it's because of the portal!" Virtually no one is jealous of that model of team building. It's way more exciting to root for a team that's really young and already performing better in BSC play than the senior laden roster in MSO. By roster composition, the Griz ought to be way ahead of the Cats right now. If you have three times as many seniors than another team and they're as good or better than you are, your approach to team-building sucks.

So you predict a Griz win.

I think it's reasonable to predict a Griz win given that the home team has dominated for four straight years, even in an instance when the visiting team turned out to be better in the big picture (2021).

Now there’s a real evasion. LOL. You are preparing an opportunity to say, if needed, “Even though your team beat us, my team is still better.” LOL. Then why do they play the football games?

[cats2506]

We love our Montana players, but we all know that we cant be competitive with only Montana players.

Having a significant amount Montana is more about support than anything. Without them we don't have the statewide support that is needed to be competitive at this level.

To me that is the biggest advantage of having Montana players, the out of state players soon learn the importance of the rivalry.

[Cataholic]

Not fair examples? You are kind of tossing Tommy under the bus there. You are saying we shouldn’t have expected him to play well because it was a big game?

I'm saying that Tommy got tight before virtually all big games, so using him as an example that's characteristic of all MT born players isn't really fair.

I never said one chokes, they all choke. Many, many, many Montana-born players in both programs rise to the occasion in the rivalry game. And so do many non-native Montanans. I think what you say about Tommy kind of illustrates TexasBuiltBobcat’s point. McDowell wasn’t raised in the heat (or the venom) of the rivalry, so he didn’t carry that kind of baggage to trip over.

Poor Ah Yat. Growing up as a legacy child of a Gris great who played in the game. The pressure of the rivalry has to be overwhelming. As you said, he will have lots of “baggage of the rivalry” to trip over.