How do Cats stack up against Griz

[catatac]

How do the Cats stack up against the Griz? Very well I'd say.
Don't think the gris offense has seen a defense like MSU's and the Cat's have played against better defenses than UM. Plain and simple.

Id say the only advantage UM has is the location of the game. We'll see if defense travels...

Griz just had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like that.

Did I imagine playing Oregon?

Obviously, but Oregon is a top FBS team and that game is hard to use as a comparison because of the size and strength of their offensive line is completely different than UM. Plus, MSU was no match for that offense. UM’s offense isn’t comparable to Oregon or in other words msu hasn’t seen an offense like that.

Then the statement should have been “The Bobcats have already seen an offense better than Montana’s.”

I’m still unsure about the Gris offense in general. One of the weakest schedules I’ve ever seen and they somehow got shut out by Cal-Poly in the first half at home.

100% dead serious with this comment. If you take out your Oregon game, the cats have had a similar or even weaker schedule than the Griz. Your NAU ranked win looks bad now especially after Idaho just beat NAU. Your SDSU loss looks even worse now. Mercyhurst. San Diego. Seriously please educate me on how your schedule is so much better than the Griz.

Thats absurd. South Dakota State was the consensus #2 team until they got hit with the injury bug.

Yes, if you throw out the actual games played against Oregon, SDSU, and Central Washington, the teams look pretty similar. Theres also the road game against a playoff bubble team in Flagstaff.

Lets compare best wins:

Oregon > UND (by A LOT)
SDSU > Idaho
NAU > Sac State
Sac State > Idaho State

And then at the bottom of the schedule:

UNC > Central Washington

Theres a reason that Massey has the Cats at the #4 SOS while the Pandas are at 25. And the discrepancy is going to get significantly larger because the gris finish against Portland State (< Mercyhurst or San Diego) and EWU. While the Cats still have a top 10 matchup on the road against Davis.


SMH.

UC Davis game is at home. Either that or I need to re think my weekend plans in a couple weeks.

[OldGriz]

As of about 5pm MDT yesterday, none of this matters. SoS doesn't matter. Off season scheduling doesn't matter. All the the normal analysis on here related to contingencies doesn't matter. PlayerReps idiotic trolling doesn't matter. None of it.

The winner of the Brawl will get the #2 and home field to Nashville. The loser will have to travel to either Fargo as the 4/5 or to Missoula/Bozeman as the 3. Neither option is good for either fanbase if you've made plans for Nashville already.

End of story.

This.

Yesterday changed a lot of things. Assuming the next two weeks go as we think they could/should, it really just comes down to:

Winner of Cat/gris will undoubtedly be #2, and the loser will be 3, 4, maybe 5 depending on how close the game is and how a few other games go.

SOS just took a back seat in the conversation, especially since by the end of the season there won’t be THAT big of a discrepancy between the two anyway.

This is right on. Actually, SOS for anyone who believed the Cats had a substantially tougher schedule has been a myth all season long. Yesterday helped illustrate it. It will come down to The Brawl. Tom’s statement is correct (the Cats indeed have not seen an offense like the Griz all season long). I don’t predict the Cats can upset the Griz in The Brawl. But I can see a path for the Cats to get a revenge game opportunity in the playoffs.

[tetoncat]

As of about 5pm MDT yesterday, none of this matters. SoS doesn't matter. Off season scheduling doesn't matter. All the the normal analysis on here related to contingencies doesn't matter. PlayerReps idiotic trolling doesn't matter. None of it.

The winner of the Brawl will get the #2 and home field to Nashville. The loser will have to travel to either Fargo as the 4/5 or to Missoula/Bozeman as the 3. Neither option is good for either fanbase if you've made plans for Nashville already.

End of story.

This.

Yesterday changed a lot of things. Assuming the next two weeks go as we think they could/should, it really just comes down to:

Winner of Cat/gris will undoubtedly be #2, and the loser will be 3, 4, maybe 5 depending on how close the game is and how a few other games go.

SOS just took a back seat in the conversation, especially since by the end of the season there won’t be THAT big of a discrepancy between the two anyway.

This is right on. Actually, SOS for anyone who believed the Cats had a substantially tougher schedule has been a myth all season long. Yesterday helped illustrate it. It will come down to The Brawl. Tom’s statement is correct (the Cats indeed have not seen an offense like the Griz all season long). I don’t predict the Cats can upset the Griz in The Brawl. But I can see a path for the Cats to get a revenge game opportunity in the playoffs.

If SOS is even how do comparative performances stack up with common opponents. Do your SOS stats change if a team is home or away.

[91catAlum]

As of about 5pm MDT yesterday, none of this matters. SoS doesn't matter. Off season scheduling doesn't matter. All the the normal analysis on here related to contingencies doesn't matter. PlayerReps idiotic trolling doesn't matter. None of it.

The winner of the Brawl will get the #2 and home field to Nashville. The loser will have to travel to either Fargo as the 4/5 or to Missoula/Bozeman as the 3. Neither option is good for either fanbase if you've made plans for Nashville already.

End of story.

This.

Yesterday changed a lot of things. Assuming the next two weeks go as we think they could/should, it really just comes down to:

Winner of Cat/gris will undoubtedly be #2, and the loser will be 3, 4, maybe 5 depending on how close the game is and how a few other games go.

SOS just took a back seat in the conversation, especially since by the end of the season there won’t be THAT big of a discrepancy between the two anyway.

This is right on. Actually, SOS for anyone who believed the Cats had a substantially tougher schedule has been a myth all season long. Yesterday helped illustrate it. It will come down to The Brawl. Tom’s statement is correct (the Cats indeed have not seen an offense like the Griz all season long). I don’t predict the Cats can upset the Griz in The Brawl. But I can see a path for the Cats to get a revenge game opportunity in the playoffs.

It’s not a myth. Hookergriz didn’t answer this question so I’ll pose it to you:

The griz are 8-0 and the Cats just 6-2. Yet they are right next to each other in the polls, in fact the Cats were 1 spot ahead of the griz in the playoff selection committee poll a couple weeks ago.

How do you explain that if the tougher SOS is a myth? Why would anyone put a 6-2 team even with, or ahead of, an unbeaten team?

[OldGriz]

I think your good questions make my point. There is no SOS statistical formula that serves as a reliable predictive analytics model. As for comparative performance with common opponents, that’s about as reliable for predictive purposes as what a 20-year-old’s girlfriend is up to on a given day. Mercyhurst is a good example. What if the Griz had played them and blown them away by way more than 17 points? I wouldn’t view that as instructive.

[OldGriz]

As of about 5pm MDT yesterday, none of this matters. SoS doesn't matter. Off season scheduling doesn't matter. All the the normal analysis on here related to contingencies doesn't matter. PlayerReps idiotic trolling doesn't matter. None of it.

The winner of the Brawl will get the #2 and home field to Nashville. The loser will have to travel to either Fargo as the 4/5 or to Missoula/Bozeman as the 3. Neither option is good for either fanbase if you've made plans for Nashville already.

End of story.

This.

Yesterday changed a lot of things. Assuming the next two weeks go as we think they could/should, it really just comes down to:

Winner of Cat/gris will undoubtedly be #2, and the loser will be 3, 4, maybe 5 depending on how close the game is and how a few other games go.

SOS just took a back seat in the conversation, especially since by the end of the season there won’t be THAT big of a discrepancy between the two anyway.

This is right on. Actually, SOS for anyone who believed the Cats had a substantially tougher schedule has been a myth all season long. Yesterday helped illustrate it. It will come down to The Brawl. Tom’s statement is correct (the Cats indeed have not seen an offense like the Griz all season long). I don’t predict the Cats can upset the Griz in The Brawl. But I can see a path for the Cats to get a revenge game opportunity in the playoffs.

It’s not a myth. Hookergriz didn’t answer this question so I’ll pose it to you:

The griz are 8-0 and the Cats just 6-2. Yet they are right next to each other in the polls, in fact the Cats were 1 spot ahead of the griz in the playoff selection committee poll a couple weeks ago.

How do you explain that if the tougher SOS is a myth? Why would anyone put a 6-2 team even with, or ahead of, an unbeaten team?

You are saying that the selection committee’s ranking is because the Cats played a tougher schedule. What I’m saying is the proposition that the Cats played a materially tougher schedule is just inaccurate (as reflected in the polls of FCS coaches and FCS writers).

[tetoncat]

I think your good questions make my point. There is no SOS statistical formula that serves as a reliable predictive analytics model. As for comparative performance with common opponents, that’s about as reliable for predictive purposes as what a 20-year-old’s girlfriend is up to on a given day. Mercyhurst is a good example. What if the Griz had played them and blown them away by way more than 17 points? I wouldn’t view that as instructive.

So you are saying that SOS isn't indicative of better team, common opponents and results against them also isn't, stats don't really matter. So it must come down to the eye test.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I think your good questions make my point. There is no SOS statistical formula that serves as a reliable predictive analytics model. As for comparative performance with common opponents, that’s about as reliable for predictive purposes as what a 20-year-old’s girlfriend is up to on a given day. Mercyhurst is a good example. What if the Griz had played them and blown them away by way more than 17 points? I wouldn’t view that as instructive.

So you are saying that SOS isn't indicative of better team, common opponents and results against them also isn't, stats don't really matter. So it must come down to the eye test.

It comes down to whatever conveniently fits the argument for the given season.

[OldGriz]

I think your good questions make my point. There is no SOS statistical formula that serves as a reliable predictive analytics model. As for comparative performance with common opponents, that’s about as reliable for predictive purposes as what a 20-year-old’s girlfriend is up to on a given day. Mercyhurst is a good example. What if the Griz had played them and blown them away by way more than 17 points? I wouldn’t view that as instructive.

So you are saying that SOS isn't indicative of better team, common opponents and results against them also isn't, stats don't really matter. So it must come down to the eye test.

I’m leaning towards a blend of common opponents and the eye test, informed as well by factors such as the committee, coaches, and writers polls. But not leaning heavily enough on any one of those leg to be irretrievably committed to a bad theory.

[91catAlum]

As of about 5pm MDT yesterday, none of this matters. SoS doesn't matter. Off season scheduling doesn't matter. All the the normal analysis on here related to contingencies doesn't matter. PlayerReps idiotic trolling doesn't matter. None of it.

The winner of the Brawl will get the #2 and home field to Nashville. The loser will have to travel to either Fargo as the 4/5 or to Missoula/Bozeman as the 3. Neither option is good for either fanbase if you've made plans for Nashville already.

End of story.

This.

Yesterday changed a lot of things. Assuming the next two weeks go as we think they could/should, it really just comes down to:

Winner of Cat/gris will undoubtedly be #2, and the loser will be 3, 4, maybe 5 depending on how close the game is and how a few other games go.

SOS just took a back seat in the conversation, especially since by the end of the season there won’t be THAT big of a discrepancy between the two anyway.

This is right on. Actually, SOS for anyone who believed the Cats had a substantially tougher schedule has been a myth all season long. Yesterday helped illustrate it. It will come down to The Brawl. Tom’s statement is correct (the Cats indeed have not seen an offense like the Griz all season long). I don’t predict the Cats can upset the Griz in The Brawl. But I can see a path for the Cats to get a revenge game opportunity in the playoffs.

It’s not a myth. Hookergriz didn’t answer this question so I’ll pose it to you:

The griz are 8-0 and the Cats just 6-2. Yet they are right next to each other in the polls, in fact the Cats were 1 spot ahead of the griz in the playoff selection committee poll a couple weeks ago.

How do you explain that if the tougher SOS is a myth? Why would anyone put a 6-2 team even with, or ahead of, an unbeaten team?

You are saying that the selection committee’s ranking is because the Cats played a tougher schedule. What I’m saying is the proposition that the Cats played a materially tougher schedule is just inaccurate (as reflected in the polls of FCS coaches and FCS writers).

Good non-answer! I’m guessing you’re a lawyer?

[BelligerentBobcat]

How do the Cats stack up against the Griz? Very well I'd say.
Don't think the gris offense has seen a defense like MSU's and the Cat's have played against better defenses than UM. Plain and simple.

Id say the only advantage UM has is the location of the game. We'll see if defense travels...

Griz just had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like that.

Did I imagine playing Oregon?

Obviously, but Oregon is a top FBS team and that game is hard to use as a comparison because of the size and strength of their offensive line is completely different than UM. Plus, MSU was no match for that offense. UM’s offense isn’t comparable to Oregon or in other words msu hasn’t seen an offense like that.

In other words, MSU has already played an offense much better than UM’s.

Better and incomparable. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s. Lmk who’s offense has been like UM’s.

Okay, in what regard are you talking about?

You started by saying they had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham, and we haven't seen an offense like that. I responded by saying we have played Oregon, who was the better offense overall. Absolutely zero doubt about that. Then you want to phrase it as it isn't comparable because of the talent difference...which makes zero sense.

So, I don't really know what you're talking about. Is it efficiency? Is it style? Is it the weapons? I'll tell you that we've already played better WR's. We've played better offensive lines. We have not played a better running back. I think we've played better QB's. I think we've played better coordinators, although I will say that Pease is doing a fantastic job this year overall. I like how he schemes up a lot of their stuff.

I can tell you that for the year, Montana is averaging 6.78 yards per play. In comparison, when you take out the MSU game, Idaho State is averaging 6.79 yards per play. Idaho State has allowed the fewest sacks. Again, with taking the MSU game out, they're averaging 6 yards per carry, and 7.3 yards per pass. UM is currently averaging 4.8 yards per carry and 9.1 yards per pass.

I think the statement that they haven't played a defense as good as ours is more accurate than saying we haven't seen an offense like theirs.

[OldGriz]

How do the Cats stack up against the Griz? Very well I'd say.
Don't think the gris offense has seen a defense like MSU's and the Cat's have played against better defenses than UM. Plain and simple.

Id say the only advantage UM has is the location of the game. We'll see if defense travels...

Griz just had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like that.

Did I imagine playing Oregon?

Obviously, but Oregon is a top FBS team and that game is hard to use as a comparison because of the size and strength of their offensive line is completely different than UM. Plus, MSU was no match for that offense. UM’s offense isn’t comparable to Oregon or in other words msu hasn’t seen an offense like that.

In other words, MSU has already played an offense much better than UM’s.

Better and incomparable. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s. Lmk who’s offense has been like UM’s.

Okay, in what regard are you talking about?

You started by saying they had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham, and we haven't seen an offense like that. I responded by saying we have played Oregon, who was the better offense overall. Absolutely zero doubt about that. Then you want to phrase it as it isn't comparable because of the talent difference...which makes zero sense.

So, I don't really know what you're talking about. Is it efficiency? Is it style? Is it the weapons? I'll tell you that we've already played better WR's. We've played better offensive lines. We have not played a better running back. I think we've played better QB's. I think we've played better coordinators, although I will say that Pease is doing a fantastic job this year overall. I like how he schemes up a lot of their stuff.

I can tell you that for the year, Montana is averaging 6.78 yards per play. In comparison, when you take out the MSU game, Idaho State is averaging 6.79 yards per play. Idaho State has allowed the fewest sacks. Again, with taking the MSU game out, they're averaging 6 yards per carry, and 7.3 yards per pass. UM is currently averaging 4.8 yards per carry and 9.1 yards per pass.

I think the statement that they haven't played a defense as good as ours is more accurate than saying we haven't seen an offense like theirs.

When you try to counter Tom’s statement by saying the Cats saw a good offense in Oregon, that’s not really a great argument, because Oregon blew the Cats away. So, naturally, you can say Montana is no Oregon, and you’re right. So, Tom is still correct in saying the Cats have not seen an offense like Montana. Montana has the best offense in the BSC, undeniably.

[TomCat88]

How do the Cats stack up against the Griz? Very well I'd say.
Don't think the gris offense has seen a defense like MSU's and the Cat's have played against better defenses than UM. Plain and simple.

Id say the only advantage UM has is the location of the game. We'll see if defense travels...

Griz just had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like that.

Did I imagine playing Oregon?

Obviously, but Oregon is a top FBS team and that game is hard to use as a comparison because of the size and strength of their offensive line is completely different than UM. Plus, MSU was no match for that offense. UM’s offense isn’t comparable to Oregon or in other words msu hasn’t seen an offense like that.

In other words, MSU has already played an offense much better than UM’s.

Better and incomparable. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s. Lmk who’s offense has been like UM’s.

Okay, in what regard are you talking about?

You started by saying they had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham, and we haven't seen an offense like that. I responded by saying we have played Oregon, who was the better offense overall. Absolutely zero doubt about that. Then you want to phrase it as it isn't comparable because of the talent difference...which makes zero sense.

So, I don't really know what you're talking about. Is it efficiency? Is it style? Is it the weapons? I'll tell you that we've already played better WR's. We've played better offensive lines. We have not played a better running back. I think we've played better QB's. I think we've played better coordinators, although I will say that Pease is doing a fantastic job this year overall. I like how he schemes up a lot of their stuff.

I can tell you that for the year, Montana is averaging 6.78 yards per play. In comparison, when you take out the MSU game, Idaho State is averaging 6.79 yards per play. Idaho State has allowed the fewest sacks. Again, with taking the MSU game out, they're averaging 6 yards per carry, and 7.3 yards per pass. UM is currently averaging 4.8 yards per carry and 9.1 yards per pass.

I think the statement that they haven't played a defense as good as ours is more accurate than saying we haven't seen an offense like theirs.

When you try to counter Tom’s statement by saying the Cats saw a good offense in Oregon, that’s not really a great argument, because Oregon blew the Cats away. So, naturally, you can say Montana is no Oregon, and you’re right. So, Tom is still correct in saying the Cats have not seen an offense like Montana. Montana has the best offense in the BSC, undeniably.

Exactly! Thank you!!! I can’t believe it. This.

[BelligerentBobcat]

How do the Cats stack up against the Griz? Very well I'd say.
Don't think the gris offense has seen a defense like MSU's and the Cat's have played against better defenses than UM. Plain and simple.

Id say the only advantage UM has is the location of the game. We'll see if defense travels...

Griz just had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like that.

Did I imagine playing Oregon?

Obviously, but Oregon is a top FBS team and that game is hard to use as a comparison because of the size and strength of their offensive line is completely different than UM. Plus, MSU was no match for that offense. UM’s offense isn’t comparable to Oregon or in other words msu hasn’t seen an offense like that.

In other words, MSU has already played an offense much better than UM’s.

Better and incomparable. MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s. Lmk who’s offense has been like UM’s.

Okay, in what regard are you talking about?

You started by saying they had 560 yards without hardly using Wortham, and we haven't seen an offense like that. I responded by saying we have played Oregon, who was the better offense overall. Absolutely zero doubt about that. Then you want to phrase it as it isn't comparable because of the talent difference...which makes zero sense.

So, I don't really know what you're talking about. Is it efficiency? Is it style? Is it the weapons? I'll tell you that we've already played better WR's. We've played better offensive lines. We have not played a better running back. I think we've played better QB's. I think we've played better coordinators, although I will say that Pease is doing a fantastic job this year overall. I like how he schemes up a lot of their stuff.

I can tell you that for the year, Montana is averaging 6.78 yards per play. In comparison, when you take out the MSU game, Idaho State is averaging 6.79 yards per play. Idaho State has allowed the fewest sacks. Again, with taking the MSU game out, they're averaging 6 yards per carry, and 7.3 yards per pass. UM is currently averaging 4.8 yards per carry and 9.1 yards per pass.

I think the statement that they haven't played a defense as good as ours is more accurate than saying we haven't seen an offense like theirs.

When you try to counter Tom’s statement by saying the Cats saw a good offense in Oregon, that’s not really a great argument, because Oregon blew the Cats away. So, naturally, you can say Montana is no Oregon, and you’re right. So, Tom is still correct in saying the Cats have not seen an offense like Montana. Montana has the best offense in the BSC, undeniably.

First, how MSU fared against Oregon is irrelevant to the conversation. They have seen and played against a better offense than UM.

Second, MSU has played a BSC opponent who on a per play basis is equal to UM, and when UM and that team played, they ended being separated by 4 points and 20 yards. So if UM’s offense is that much better than everybody else in the conference, their defense must be quite bad.

[Robert Martin]

You can’t take a lot of away from the early games, UND vs the Griz as well. New Players and Coaches. Here is an interesting Stat, as everything is talking about the UM offense. In conference Big Sky teams ranked by point differential during conference play:

MSU +173
UM +69
Davis +59
Sac +33
Idaho +8
NAU -21
Cal Poly -40
ISU -41
UNCU -42
EWU -58
Weber -58
PSU -72

Now look at the comparison of the their three common opponents

Category. Montana. Montana State
Points38.3 ppg 46.3 ppg
Total Offense. 438.3 YPG. 484.3 YPG
Rushing. 218.3 ypg 262.3 ypg
Passing. 220 ypg. 222 ypg
Takeaways.33/g. 1/g
Penalties. 15/135 yds. 14/115 yds
Points allowed. 17 ppg. 11.3 ppg

It is pretty clear who the better team is, and it isn’t even close when you look at the synergy of everything

[PapaG]

Tom’s latest meandering thoughts aside, the only way he and OldJack are correct is that yes, MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s simply because they haven’t yet played UM.

Oregon is a better offense by miles, so I’m really not understanding the “haven’t seen an offense like UM’s yet” unless you’re being literal in that the Gris are still to be played. In that case, congrats for stating the obvious.

[TomCat88]

Tom’s latest meandering thoughts aside, the only way he and OldJack are correct is that yes, MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s simply because they haven’t yet played UM.

Oregon is a better offense by miles, so I’m really not understanding the “haven’t seen an offense like UM’s yet” unless you’re being literal in that the Gris are still to be played. In that case, congrats for stating the obvious.

Nuh-uh. They haven’t played an offense similar to theirs. Geez.

[PapaG]

Tom’s latest meandering thoughts aside, the only way he and OldJack are correct is that yes, MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s simply because they haven’t yet played UM.

Oregon is a better offense by miles, so I’m really not understanding the “haven’t seen an offense like UM’s yet” unless you’re being literal in that the Gris are still to be played. In that case, congrats for stating the obvious.

Nuh-uh. They haven’t played an offense similar to theirs. Geez.

Correct. They also haven’t played an offense like Cal-Davis nor Weber State’s.

As a sportswriter, I’m surprised you don’t know that “haven’t seen a “x” like yet” phrase generally means an “X” that is better than anyone else played.

[OldGriz]

Tom’s latest meandering thoughts aside, the only way he and OldJack are correct is that yes, MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s simply because they haven’t yet played UM.

Oregon is a better offense by miles, so I’m really not understanding the “haven’t seen an offense like UM’s yet” unless you’re being literal in that the Gris are still to be played. In that case, congrats for stating the obvious.

Oregon’s offense is not only BETTER THAN Montana’s offense, but it’s also DIFFERENT THAN Montana’s offense. The Griz have the best offense in the Big Sky Conference and the Cats have seen nothing like it yet. That is the clear point I read in Tom’s statement. Some of you guys keep using the fact that Oregon boatraced the Cats as a nonsensical argument to try to dispute Tom’s statement.

[PapaG]

Tom’s latest meandering thoughts aside, the only way he and OldJack are correct is that yes, MSU hasn’t seen an offense like UM’s simply because they haven’t yet played UM.

Oregon is a better offense by miles, so I’m really not understanding the “haven’t seen an offense like UM’s yet” unless you’re being literal in that the Gris are still to be played. In that case, congrats for stating the obvious.

Oregon’s offense is not only BETTER THAN Montana’s offense, but it’s also DIFFERENT THAN Montana’s offense. The Griz have the best offense in the Big Sky Conference and the Cats have seen nothing like it yet. That is the clear point I read in Tom’s statement. Some of you guys keep using the fact that Oregon boatraced the Cats as a nonsensical argument to try to dispute Tom’s statement.

As I said, that’s being literal. That’s not analysis, that’s a statement of fact. No duh they haven’t seen the Gris offense yet. Excellent insight, Jack. Never could have figured that one out without your wisdom.