Valdez in portal

[91catAlum]

The portal - which sucks - puts a bigger emphasis on recruiting Montana kids, who, IMO are much less likely to leave. A friend of Marcus Wehr asked him what he would need in NIL money. He said, "a pickle barrel."

I'm leaning to believe Brody Grebe will be the next one with a decision to make.

Geezus... if we lose Grebe too we'll be back to where we were about 6 years ago in the trenches.

[PapaG]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

[PapaG]

Not gonna lie-- this one hurts a lot. NFL talent who is not going to be easily replaced.

Further emphasizes the importance of moving up. Way fewer transfers from Wyoming or Nevada to Michigan than there are guys from our level who are able to grab Power 5 offers.

Tell me you don’t follow college football without telling me you don’t follow college football.

I love being from and now living back in Montana, but the idea that there is a much larger football world and business world even here out west seems baffling to some people.

These players have zero connection to Montana other than going to college and classes. I didn’t see Chambers or Valdez on any Rib and Chop House commercials. It goes two ways.

[91catAlum]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

Neither of these 2 needed the portal. FBS dropdowns have always been allowed without penalty.

The portal only hurts MSU, it doesn't help us.

[catscat]

2 thoughts.
I think portal losses hurt more if it is a young starter because means you probably have younger unproven talent behind them. Seniors like Valdez more likely to have backups who have been in system 2 or 3 years.
I think NIL contracts should be public like coaches contracts. That info may help athletes decide if it is really worth it. Can track # who enter portal, land somewhere, and what their benefit is.

So what I would actually like is a buyout program, just like you have for coaches. For example, if Vigen leaves, the school gets a certain amount of money from whatever school is buying him out of his contract.

So if a player here is getting $10k, whatever NIL collective at the school he’s going to has to put $10k into the NIL collective that was paying him before. All the money is still going to players, but it helps subsidize costs, and obviously the larger the amount is, the more other programs might decide to do something else.

I think the buyout idea has merit, but we should be thinking bigger. The NIL "reimbursement" should reflect the player's value so if the new school is going to give them 6 figures, our NIL should get the same - and for every year of remaining eligibility. MSU should also get "reimbursement" for all the costs invested in the athletes - scholarship, books, tutors, etc. In other words, if they want to "buy" our players, we are made whole with the resources to get a comparable player. Probably never happen, but if we are going to be a "farm team" like MLB, we might as well be able to "sell" our players like one.

[PapaG]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

Neither of these 2 needed the portal. FBS dropdowns have always been allowed without penalty.

The portal only hurts MSU, it doesn't help us.

So when the system helps MSU, it’s all good. Got it.

[91catAlum]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

Neither of these 2 needed the portal. FBS dropdowns have always been allowed without penalty.

The portal only hurts MSU, it doesn't help us.

So when the system helps MSU, it’s all good. Got it.

Huh? I never said that. I'm just trying to correct your misinformation that the portal helps bring FBS guys to MSU. It does not.

[GRIZFNZ]

2 thoughts.
I think portal losses hurt more if it is a young starter because means you probably have younger unproven talent behind them. Seniors like Valdez more likely to have backups who have been in system 2 or 3 years.
I think NIL contracts should be public like coaches contracts. That info may help athletes decide if it is really worth it. Can track # who enter portal, land somewhere, and what their benefit is.

So what I would actually like is a buyout program, just like you have for coaches. For example, if Vigen leaves, the school gets a certain amount of money from whatever school is buying him out of his contract.

So if a player here is getting $10k, whatever NIL collective at the school he’s going to has to put $10k into the NIL collective that was paying him before. All the money is still going to players, but it helps subsidize costs, and obviously the larger the amount is, the more other programs might decide to do something else.

Don’t stop at NIL. The value of the scholarship, nutrition plan, weight training and skill development should also be considered in the buyout. The bigger schools weren’t willing to take the risk in signing these players until after your staff spent the time and financial resources developing them.

[technoCat]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

I was thinking more along the lines of him meaning an interior defensive lineman of his caliber. Sure we might get a solid player like Scrempos or Hehl but I don't think there are a lot of difference makers there. DEs are a dime a dozen comparably. I'm personally hoping we can pick up 2-3 guys like them just to take up blocks and give our current guys some breathers so they can be fresh to pass rush.

[cats2506]

College football is changing. Some G5 and even some P5 are no longer recruiting High School except for the very top recruits. FCS may have more opportunities in recruiting the HS kids just due to more availability. Some teams (including FBS) are rebuilding entire rosters through the portal. There is a lot of NIL money out there but the majority are not getting 6 figure deals. Coaches will need to learn how to put together competitive rosters within this new landscape. As MSU has gotten more talent and been raised to a higher profile, more teams above us have taken notice. I really can't blame these players for the opportunity to play at a higher level, I don't like them leaving and I am sure each has had to weigh the decision to do what is best for themselves. It is not the end of College Football, but it isn't the same either.

If you are not losing a few players, you probably don't have good enough players to start with.

[Cats15]

If we were still playing, do people really believe that these players that have entered the portal would have done so this week? I know you want to get your name out there ASAP if you know you will be entering but man, I just have a tough time believing these guys would do this with the season still going on...I have a feeling we will be seeing similar numbers leaving from every major FCS teams as they lose out and their season comes to an end.

[cats2506]

They have until Jan 2nd to enter the portal

[Travelingcat]

Not gonna lie-- this one hurts a lot. NFL talent who is not going to be easily replaced.

Further emphasizes the importance of moving up. Way fewer transfers from Wyoming or Nevada to Michigan than there are guys from our level who are able to grab Power 5 offers.

Nevada has eight in the portal and two already have offers to Oregon State and Arizona State.

Nevada has a new coach, in case you were not aware. . .

[Travelingcat]

The portal - which sucks - puts a bigger emphasis on recruiting Montana kids, who, IMO are much less likely to leave. A friend of Marcus Wehr asked him what he would need in NIL money. He said, "a pickle barrel."

I'm leaning to believe Brody Grebe will be the next one with a decision to make.

Will be an interesting test of the "Montana kids are more likely to stick with MSU" hypothesis. Grebe is a small-town MT kid. He's also clearly good enough to move up. Will be interesting to see what he chooses to do.

[BelligerentBobcat]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

Neither of these 2 needed the portal. FBS dropdowns have always been allowed without penalty.

The portal only hurts MSU, it doesn't help us.

I'm going to dive into the woods a bit here, so just bear with me.

The portal has far more impact than just transfers going out/coming in. Coaches/programs have entirely changed how they recruit. Covid and the extra year or two that people have gotten have obviously played a role too. Anyways, I digress. We are seeing a lot of programs, especially the higher tier programs, take less HS recruits so that they have scholarship & roster room to add portal players. That trickles down. G5 programs are able to recruit HS players that typically would get P5 offers. FCS programs are able to recruit players that typically get G5 offers. Even the NAIA programs are taking kids that typically would have been able to get a chance to walk-on at MSU, but there just isn't any room for them now. So we're seeing a real trickle down as far as recruits and where they go. I have no way to prove this obviously, but I don't think a player like Connor Moore comes to Montana State 5 years ago, he's probably getting an offer from an Akron, or Miami (OH), or somebody like that. So we're seeing more talented, more developmental recruits than before, imo. The downside of course, is if they do develop, and they want to, it's really easy for them to transfer out. Upside is that we get some really talented players that we probably wouldn't have before, even if it's only for a couple years. And if we continue to send players to the NFL and P5 schools, you'll get even more talented players that realize they can come here for a few years, get legit playing time at a great program, and then move on. There's a lot of appeal to that. As fans, it's disappointing, but I do think it's important to realize that while we pine for the past rules, with the past rules most of these guys probably aren't coming here.

None of the above means I don't want, or see the need for changes either. I don't care for the way this is all working, but I do think that for the most part, it benefits the players and I do like that. It's still just football, and I still love football, and I'm still going to cheer for the guys, even if they're only here for 2-3 years.

[BelligerentBobcat]

The portal - which sucks - puts a bigger emphasis on recruiting Montana kids, who, IMO are much less likely to leave. A friend of Marcus Wehr asked him what he would need in NIL money. He said, "a pickle barrel."

I'm leaning to believe Brody Grebe will be the next one with a decision to make.

Will be an interesting test of the "Montana kids are more likely to stick with MSU" hypothesis. Grebe is a small-town MT kid. He's also clearly good enough to move up. Will be interesting to see what he chooses to do.

He also went out of state to get better offers than what he had out of HS. It's not like leaving to play football is an unknown concept to him either. He'll have to weigh the options between staying and being a hometown legend, or going to a bigger program, for more money, and somewhat tarnishing the legend that he leaves here. It's a tough choice, imo. They have to do what's best for them, just like their coaches do.

[thefrank1]

The portal may giveth as well as taketh, but it definitely isn't giving any Sebastian Valdez types to the FCS.

Was Bryce Sterk not one of the best edges in the FCS when we had him?

Amandre Williams, too. How quickly people forget.

Neither of these 2 needed the portal. FBS dropdowns have always been allowed without penalty.

The portal only hurts MSU, it doesn't help us.

I'm going to dive into the woods a bit here, so just bear with me.

The portal has far more impact than just transfers going out/coming in. Coaches/programs have entirely changed how they recruit. Covid and the extra year or two that people have gotten have obviously played a role too. Anyways, I digress. We are seeing a lot of programs, especially the higher tier programs, take less HS recruits so that they have scholarship & roster room to add portal players. That trickles down. G5 programs are able to recruit HS players that typically would get P5 offers. FCS programs are able to recruit players that typically get G5 offers. Even the NAIA programs are taking kids that typically would have been able to get a chance to walk-on at MSU, but there just isn't any room for them now. So we're seeing a real trickle down as far as recruits and where they go. I have no way to prove this obviously, but I don't think a player like Connor Moore comes to Montana State 5 years ago, he's probably getting an offer from an Akron, or Miami (OH), or somebody like that. So we're seeing more talented, more developmental recruits than before, imo. The downside of course, is if they do develop, and they want to, it's really easy for them to transfer out. Upside is that we get some really talented players that we probably wouldn't have before, even if it's only for a couple years. And if we continue to send players to the NFL and P5 schools, you'll get even more talented players that realize they can come here for a few years, get legit playing time at a great program, and then move on. There's a lot of appeal to that. As fans, it's disappointing, but I do think it's important to realize that while we pine for the past rules, with the past rules most of these guys probably aren't coming here.

None of the above means I don't want, or see the need for changes either. I don't care for the way this is all working, but I do think that for the most part, it benefits the players and I do like that. It's still just football, and I still love football, and I'm still going to cheer for the guys, even if they're only here for 2-3 years.

If you want to thrive you must adapt. Go Cats!

[GoldstoneCat]

2 thoughts.
I think portal losses hurt more if it is a young starter because means you probably have younger unproven talent behind them. Seniors like Valdez more likely to have backups who have been in system 2 or 3 years.
I think NIL contracts should be public like coaches contracts. That info may help athletes decide if it is really worth it. Can track # who enter portal, land somewhere, and what their benefit is.

So what I would actually like is a buyout program, just like you have for coaches. For example, if Vigen leaves, the school gets a certain amount of money from whatever school is buying him out of his contract.

So if a player here is getting $10k, whatever NIL collective at the school he’s going to has to put $10k into the NIL collective that was paying him before. All the money is still going to players, but it helps subsidize costs, and obviously the larger the amount is, the more other programs might decide to do something else.

Don’t stop at NIL. The value of the scholarship, nutrition plan, weight training and skill development should also be considered in the buyout. The bigger schools weren’t willing to take the risk in signing these players until after your staff spent the time and financial resources developing them.

This. 1000% this. I referenced it in another thread. But i like your take. If our role as "developmental programs" is to in fact develop kids for the G5 and P4, we need to be paid a services contract for the full monetary cost. Sounds absurd, but so does continuing to beat your head against the wall.

[Andy]

You place a coach and a player at the same level. Not sure of the rationalizer that grounds that? So how should the instructor be rewarded, because I believe NIL has thrown salary out the window. Just spitting in the wind.

[thebobcat99]

Oversaturation of players everywhere because of extra covid year. Every kid that got an extra year equaled one less scholarship for another plus less playing time for some. Could of landed at MSU in the first place because of less spots at bigger schools the last few years-now covid years are drying up and they are going to need players.Covid year was good for HS grad years 2017-19, but bad for younger guys. NIL, transfer portal, covid year it's all new territory but should normalize in a few years and should become clear every transfer won't make a lot in NIL. Can't blame them for taking a chance now. Start developing Freshman and Sophomores again.