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Ok, so we’re getting slapped around and instead of going to RB6-8 because he’s not good enough this year but was good enough last year to be a solid 3rd down RB, we’ll keep running ‘the franchise’ QB1 into a stone wall. It smells like ****** to me and it’s smelled like that since Gold Rush. The coaches hyped all 6 of the current RBs in the spring and fall camps, frequently! Peeeeeeeuuuuuwwww
Between what coach said in yesterday's presser and at the QBC meeting I don't think we will see many meaningful snaps from Elliott the rest of the year. I would expect Elliott to transfer after this year. The jury is still out on Coon. He has not practiced in a while so maybe they are just waiting for him to get some practice reps under his belt but I am not sure about that.
Maybe Elliot can pull a McKay before the conference slate begins.
I believe there is a deadline to enter the portal and/or sign with a new team (sometime in the summer). A player can leave at any time but they can't join another team until after the season if they miss the deadline.
At this point I'm sure Elliot knows where he stands on the team and will stick it out through the end of the season. If he was going to quit it likely would have happened by now. And it's not like he never sees the field. He's been in on special teams and as a blocking back on pass plays. It's also early in the season. He could always show improvement and get more carries/catches.
I originally brought up the "get an answer from Vigen" topic because many of us are interested in the "why". He gave us the answer on Monday: Tommy and Chambers are the two best runners. The gap must be big enough that he's sticking with those guys.
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
It's clear that the coaches don't want to use Elliott, and it's equally clear that on the field, he is a more-than-adequate RB at this level (which is why he was our RB2 most of last year)
I won't speculate as to whether the coaches have good or bad reasons for not wanting to use him, but clearly, from their perspective, those reasons are significant.
I finally got around to listening to the R&R Instant Reaction episode and when they brought up the trick play with Tommy and Chambers I had an idea. Some people don't like the idea of using trick plays in the non-conference games because now they are on tape and can be shut down more easily. For this play I think we could modify it in the future to have Chambers line up under one of the guards and have the center snap the ball to Tommy who either runs or throws. The DL might notice that Chambers isn't in the right spot but the rest of the defense would probably bite which would allow enough time for the play to work. Using the original trick play against OSU would allow the modification to succeed.
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
I like using trick plays in non-conf games. It makes it so that our future opponents have to spend valuable time planning/practicing against it......and we may not ever run it again.
I finally got around to listening to the R&R Instant Reaction episode and when they brought up the trick play with Tommy and Chambers I had an idea. Some people don't like the idea of using trick plays in the non-conference games because now they are on tape and can be shut down more easily. For this play I think we could modify it in the future to have Chambers line up under one of the guards and have the center snap the ball to Tommy who either runs or throws. The DL might notice that Chambers isn't in the right spot but the rest of the defense would probably bite which would allow enough time for the play to work. Using the original trick play against OSU would allow the modification to succeed.
I think variations of trick plays is exactly what you’ll see going forward. The play will look similar in the future but not exact. The Cats have already run a variation of the Sam Houston State Philly special play once this season, although the throw was poor and the play didn’t work.
I finally got around to listening to the R&R Instant Reaction episode and when they brought up the trick play with Tommy and Chambers I had an idea. Some people don't like the idea of using trick plays in the non-conference games because now they are on tape and can be shut down more easily. For this play I think we could modify it in the future to have Chambers line up under one of the guards and have the center snap the ball to Tommy who either runs or throws. The DL might notice that Chambers isn't in the right spot but the rest of the defense would probably bite which would allow enough time for the play to work. Using the original trick play against OSU would allow the modification to succeed.
It's still a power football running play, and so far no one has stopped Chambers with any sort of regularity in the QB run game. I'd argue that it's not so much a trick play as it is a "quick" play. Will be surprised if we don't see it again, but honestly not much different than an unbalanced line, misdirection, or a naked bootleg.
Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Reetard sing-a-long choir!!!
I nominate Victor Flores to ask a direct question on Monday: "Why didn't Elliot get a single carry until the final drive of the game?"
If he was hurt he shouldn't have been out there at all. If he was healthy, what's up?
Thanks Victor. I knew you were reading the gameday thread!
Not a fan of the explanation personally. It's not like we did nothing but pass, the ball was still being run, just not by an RB.
Vigen's a bad liar. That was a bs explanation if I ever heard one. Maybe God only knows what's going on, but i'm starting to feel bad for Elliot and becoming less of a Vigen fan.
Would you rather he say, to the public, "elliot isn't very good and we don't trust him to carry the ball"? It's pretty clear the staff thinks he's not a better choice than Chambers, Tommy, clevan Thomas, Marqui etc in the zone scheme. I agree he's not very convincing with the argument but the alternative is to give a brutally honest declaration about a kid to the general public. Don't think that's going to play well inside the team. I would be fairly certain elliot has been told where he stands.
Elliott is a fine back, after watching this I'm 100% there's something else going on. I don't like being lied too, if there's an issue throw out the no comment, don't lie about. He gets asked the question and you can watch his wheels spin and try to figure out how he's going to spin it. Therefore I feel bad for Elliott, and have lost respect for Vigen... Which apparently isn't allowed now I'm a fan boy for pointing out a problem.
The issue is you are speculating and reading into things. Maybe it's right, maybe it's not but losing respect for Vigen for this based on your perception of the situation is... a choice.
My biggest issue with not playing Elliot at OSU was we were down big and we continue to run with Mellott and have him take hits, what is the point when you are down 28 points? Just give it to anyone else.
It's clear the coaches don't want to use Elliot, and you aren't entitled to know the reasons why.
All I'm saying is something else is going on than the narrative that's trying to be pushed is Elliott sucks. It's Coaches decision to play who he wants, but don't lie about it. If its a sensitive subject "well, we're not going to talk about that." would suffice just fine. If he's going to lie to my face about the situation like i'm stupid and can't see what's going on, then ya, I'm going to lose respect for the guy. Not sure what's so odd about that.
When did coach or anyone else say Elliot sucks? Man I missed a bunch this week!
The whole narrative for why Elliott hasn't touched the ball is he's buried in the depth chart (we have no one left) and the coaches don't trust him(ok, weird) but don't question this, because then your a fanboy. There, you're caught up.
I nominate Victor Flores to ask a direct question on Monday: "Why didn't Elliot get a single carry until the final drive of the game?"
If he was hurt he shouldn't have been out there at all. If he was healthy, what's up?
Thanks Victor. I knew you were reading the gameday thread!
Not a fan of the explanation personally. It's not like we did nothing but pass, the ball was still being run, just not by an RB.
Vigen's a bad liar. That was a bs explanation if I ever heard one. Maybe God only knows what's going on, but i'm starting to feel bad for Elliot and becoming less of a Vigen fan.
Would you rather he say, to the public, "elliot isn't very good and we don't trust him to carry the ball"? It's pretty clear the staff thinks he's not a better choice than Chambers, Tommy, clevan Thomas, Marqui etc in the zone scheme. I agree he's not very convincing with the argument but the alternative is to give a brutally honest declaration about a kid to the general public. Don't think that's going to play well inside the team. I would be fairly certain elliot has been told where he stands.
Elliott is a fine back, after watching this I'm 100% there's something else going on. I don't like being lied too, if there's an issue throw out the no comment, don't lie about. He gets asked the question and you can watch his wheels spin and try to figure out how he's going to spin it. Therefore I feel bad for Elliott, and have lost respect for Vigen... Which apparently isn't allowed now I'm a fan boy for pointing out a problem.
The issue is you are speculating and reading into things. Maybe it's right, maybe it's not but losing respect for Vigen for this based on your perception of the situation is... a choice.
My biggest issue with not playing Elliot at OSU was we were down big and we continue to run with Mellott and have him take hits, what is the point when you are down 28 points? Just give it to anyone else.
It's clear the coaches don't want to use Elliot, and you aren't entitled to know the reasons why.
But as fans we are entitled to express our opinions, likes, dislikes,etc on a message board or podcast. Everyone doesn't have to agree but it gets old reading the bickering on here. Seems like everyone can have an opinion as long as it matches the consensus. This happens on both sides of discussions a lot.
Seems reasonable to wonder why last year's 3rd string doesn't get touches when 4 ahead of him now are out. Not many have said he should get 20, but some usage seems appropriate. It is reasonable to ask coach. It is reasonable to think his answer is not sufficient to provide info. It is also reasonable for Vigen to be vaugue and not provide info. Both things can be okay
When did coach or anyone else say Elliot sucks? Man I missed a bunch this week!
The whole narrative for why Elliott hasn't touched the ball is he's buried in the depth chart (we have no one left) and the coaches don't trust him(ok, weird) but don't question this, because then your a fanboy. There, you're caught up.
Gotcha.
Questions seem fine. It's what message boards are for. I was more confused with the "Elliot sucks" and "coach lied to our faces"...
I've always been of the belief of a couple things. One, is that coaches don't owe us anything in terms of explanations about their teams. They can disclose as much or as little as they feel like. We're just fans of a cool team, but for them it is their careers and their livelihoods. Never have an issue with that.
Two, I just think there are WAY more things going on behind the scenes that 99% of fans are not aware of. It's way beyond player A is better than player B so coach is an idiot for not playing player A. It's never that black and white. And ties into my first point, coach doesn't owe me ******. There could be a thousand and one reasons EE hasn't gotten touches I thought he'd get. I'm not owed to know why.
Point is you could be 100% spot on with your guess is what's going on. But unless you're with the team day in and day out that's all it is; a guess.
I nominate Victor Flores to ask a direct question on Monday: "Why didn't Elliot get a single carry until the final drive of the game?"
If he was hurt he shouldn't have been out there at all. If he was healthy, what's up?
Thanks Victor. I knew you were reading the gameday thread!
Not a fan of the explanation personally. It's not like we did nothing but pass, the ball was still being run, just not by an RB.
Vigen's a bad liar. That was a bs explanation if I ever heard one. Maybe God only knows what's going on, but i'm starting to feel bad for Elliot and becoming less of a Vigen fan.
Would you rather he say, to the public, "elliot isn't very good and we don't trust him to carry the ball"? It's pretty clear the staff thinks he's not a better choice than Chambers, Tommy, clevan Thomas, Marqui etc in the zone scheme. I agree he's not very convincing with the argument but the alternative is to give a brutally honest declaration about a kid to the general public. Don't think that's going to play well inside the team. I would be fairly certain elliot has been told where he stands.
Elliott is a fine back, after watching this I'm 100% there's something else going on. I don't like being lied too, if there's an issue throw out the no comment, don't lie about. He gets asked the question and you can watch his wheels spin and try to figure out how he's going to spin it. Therefore I feel bad for Elliott, and have lost respect for Vigen... Which apparently isn't allowed now I'm a fan boy for pointing out a problem.
The issue is you are speculating and reading into things. Maybe it's right, maybe it's not but losing respect for Vigen for this based on your perception of the situation is... a choice.
My biggest issue with not playing Elliot at OSU was we were down big and we continue to run with Mellott and have him take hits, what is the point when you are down 28 points? Just give it to anyone else.
It's clear the coaches don't want to use Elliot, and you aren't entitled to know the reasons why.
But as fans we are entitled to express our opinions, likes, dislikes,etc on a message board or podcast. Everyone doesn't have to agree but it gets old reading the bickering on here. Seems like everyone can have an opinion as long as it matches the consensus. This happens on both sides of discussions a lot.
Seems reasonable to wonder why last year's 3rd string doesn't get touches when 4 ahead of him now are out. Not many have said he should get 20, but some usage seems appropriate. It is reasonable to ask coach. It is reasonable to think his answer is not sufficient to provide info. It is also reasonable for Vigen to be vaugue and not provide info. Both things can be okay
That's all fine. You can certainly think all of those things. Seems like calling a coach a liar or saying "he lied to my face" is a little extreme in my opinion.
But yes, we can all have opinions and discussions without a doubt.
When did coach or anyone else say Elliot sucks? Man I missed a bunch this week!
The whole narrative for why Elliott hasn't touched the ball is he's buried in the depth chart (we have no one left) and the coaches don't trust him(ok, weird) but don't question this, because then your a fanboy. There, you're caught up.
I think everyone is wondering why Elliot isn't getting more carries, me and plenty of others have been questioning this pretty much all season. It absolutely seems odd to me that the coaching staff seems to think a decoy RB is the best way to run the ball but here we are, and the results are just fine here in the short term, I mean the Mellott/Chambers combo ran for 170 yards, 3 TDs and 6.3 YPC against Oregon State and 152 yards for 12.75 YPC and 2 TDs against a very overmatched Morehead State. My biggest grip about it is we are going to need RB depth if we want to make a playoff run, we simply can't be the Mellott and Chambers show all year, so why on earth would you not get Elliot carries at least when the game is out of hand? There is a decent chance we could end up in this situation again in November or December, meaning Elliot is the only healthy RB we have on the roster, so wasting live reps for a guy like Elliot doesn't make any sense to me. I guess the coaches think giving Elliot 3 carries a game in garbage time is the smart play.
But speculating for the worst and calling out the integrity of the head coach isn't going to be a popular stance. You may be right but just understand how it comes across and prepare for some backlash.
I think this is a perfect opportunity to once again suggest the QB Club. Get a ton of insight into the team. Especially those that feel they are owed explanations, you can simply ask Vigen himself.
Vigen doesn’t owe anyone an explanation but Elliot not getting the opportunity to run and forcing both your QB’s to pound the rock doesn’t make sense, especially when the game is out of reach. Putting Tommy in harms way time and time again will forever be a head scratcher for me.
I night just be naive, but Vigen's answer saying that we need to be able to run the rock, and both Mellott and Chambers are currently better than Elliot at doing that..... was good enough for me.
I don't think it is naive thinking the coach may know more than many of the pundits who only speculate. If the coach thought Elliot provided a better option by running the ball he would be running the ball.
I don't think it is naive thinking the coach may know more than many of the pundits who only speculate. If the coach thought Elliot provided a better option by running the ball he would be running the ball.
I think pretty much everyone agrees with that.
Its just that the exact same coaches thought that Elliot was a serviceable backup last year. Every single fan who watched a Bobcat game last year thought Elliot was a serviceable backup.
But somewhere between January and September, Elliot has transformed into "too terrible to be trusted with the ball".
Thats pretty strange & I think people are curious as to why Elliot got so much worse at playing football in the last 9 months.
I don't think it is naive thinking the coach may know more than many of the pundits who only speculate. If the coach thought Elliot provided a better option by running the ball he would be running the ball.
I think pretty much everyone agrees with that.
Its just that the exact same coaches thought that Elliot was a serviceable backup last year. Every single fan who watched a Bobcat game last year thought Elliot was a serviceable backup.
But somewhere between January and September, Elliot has transformed into "too terrible to be trusted with the ball".
Thats pretty strange & I think people are curious as to why Elliot got so much worse at playing football in the last 9 months.
I'm not sure that's true. Elliott was available last year vs SDSU in the semis with Isaiah out, yet it was Mellott carrying the ball 34 times. Elliott had 6 carries for 21 yards. There isn't anything that changed in the last 9 months.
I don't think it is naive thinking the coach may know more than many of the pundits who only speculate. If the coach thought Elliot provided a better option by running the ball he would be running the ball.
I think pretty much everyone agrees with that.
Its just that the exact same coaches thought that Elliot was a serviceable backup last year. Every single fan who watched a Bobcat game last year thought Elliot was a serviceable backup.
But somewhere between January and September, Elliot has transformed into "too terrible to be trusted with the ball".
Thats pretty strange & I think people are curious as to why Elliot got so much worse at playing football in the last 9 months.
I'm not sure that's true. Elliott was available last year vs SDSU in the semis with Isaiah out, yet it was Mellott carrying the ball 34 times. Elliott had 6 carries for 21 yards. There isn't anything that changed in the last 9 months.
Agree, and further.... we did not have Sean Chambers to run the rock. I'm not sure why some people think there's some big conspiracy and can't accept that Tommy Mellott and Sean Chambers are both better ball carriers than Elliot.
