Vigen Oregon State rumors.

[wbtfg]

I'm still not convinced we lose Vigen. He may or may not be OSU's to choice....it sounds like there are 2 or 3 other finalists. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Leon find some additional funds for a new contract.

Aren’t both universities hands tied to a certain degree to what the BOR approves?

That’s why Vigen and Hauck’s contracts are so similar?

Even if we had the money, I don’t know that we could just go pay a coach $2 million a year while the other guys have to pay their guy $300k.

Maybe I have misunderstood that all these years, but that was my general understanding of the setup.

I don't think the BOR sets any limits (especially on bonuses) so long as the athletics dept has the funds to pay for it.

[MrGoodKat]

I was also responding to the first thing you said about Daly having been a former MSU assistant and therefore familiar with the program and players. To me, that's not something that should play a huge role. Hire the best coach. I don't care where he comes from or where he has been before or if he knows MSU's system.

When you hire from outside, you're taking on more risk.

Now that doesn't mean that there aren't great reasons to do it in many circumstances. For example, if you're hiring because the previous coach failed and the program needs to be overhauled, you have to hire from outside. Or if your former coach was successful and is being hired away, but there aren't any qualified candidates on his staff to replace him (or there are, but they'd rather go elsewhere, as with Ioane), you have to hire from outside.

But if you have a highly qualified candidate who is internal, it's pretty foolish not to promote him. The best shot you have at maintaining success is to continue with the same approach and culture that got you to this point. That's what NDSU and SDSU do and it clearly works for them.

I don't have personal knowledge of Daly's qualifications, but from my vantage point he sure seems qualified and my perception is that he was the succession plan last year before Wazzu fell through. In light of that, I don't understand why you'd go elsewhere. Maintain the success of your program.

[LTown Cat]

I don't know if Vigen will get Oregon State, but I completely understand why he wants it. It's a natural step up for his career. He would make far more money and could begin to build a resume to get into the Power 4.

If he doesn't get it, I still believe that he's somewhere else next season. There is just way too much turnover in the college coaching ranks right now for him to be left without a dance partner again. That's my opinion.

The glimmer of hope is if MSU makes a run to Nashville and he's not willing to quit in the middle of the playoffs and the programs are not willing to wait for him, as we saw last year with Washington State.

Now all that said, assuming he does end up taking a job, I cannot figure out why the Cats would go with anyone other than Bobby Daly, assuming he wants the job. Anyone with actual knowledge of the situation push back on me here, but this is how I see it:

1) Great programs at the FCS level graduate coaches to bigger schools and then hire from within in order to maintain culture and success. It would seem that Daly was the succession plan a year ago and had been groomed for the role. He was the AHC for 3 seasons, in addition to being a coordinator. With Daly, we would be able to maintain the defensive philosophy that has become so successful in recent years. He also knows virtually all of the players on the roster and many/all of the guys currently being recruited. Someone with his familiarity is best positioned to stem the tide of kids leaving.

2) Daly has the reputation of being a stellar in-state recruiter. In the era of the portal, that has become more important than it has ever been. The biggest reason (note: not the only reason) that the Cats graduated so many studs (Mellott, Grebe, O'Reilly, Lonergran, Ortt, Wehr, Sain, etc.) AND lost great players to the portal (Humphrey, Moore, Jones, Powdrell, Polidore, Johnson, etc.) and still maintained success is because of the foundation of great players from Montana who stay. MSU has the upper hand over UM in this regard right now and they need to prioritize and maintain that edge. The easiest way that the Griz take back over as the top program in the state is by MSU taking the in-state players for granted.

3) Daly is young and doesn't have previous head coaching experience. While there's no guarantee that it would work out this way (see: Jimmy Rogers), I think his age and inexperience could likely mean that bigger programs would want to see him maintain success over a 4-5 year span before pursuing him. This was basically the pattern we say with Vigen; interest in him really turned up once it became obvious that he wasn't just keeping Choate's good times rolling. At our level, if you hire a great coach and keep him for 4+ seasons, that's a win. This is getting ahead of myself, but in a perfect world, he could keep Owens as the AHC/DC and groom him to be the next man up (Owens would actually be a great choice if Daly doesn't want the job).

4) He's a Helena kid and former player who understands the rivalry. Obviously Vigen isn't from here and he's done just fine, so it isn't like this is a pre-requisite, but he also had a learning curve to get to where he is now. When you bring in an outsider with no experience of football in the state, you take the risk of ending up with a Rob Ash or Bob Stitt. I would never advocate hiring a lesser coach just because he's from here, but if you love his qualifications anyways, it can only help.

So get out of here with your Ed Lamb/Brian Wright/Paul Wulff propaganda. I personally think suggesting such things should get you a week's ban from the forum, but I'm not a moderator so I leave that in the hands of wiser posters.

If any candidate doesn't have a very solid understanding of what MSU is doing development-wise, practice-wise and culture-wise, then they won't get the job. It will be someone within the 1) Vigen tree, 2) Bohl tree. I think Daly is one that fits that bill. I don't think it's imperative that it's a former MSU player/coach.

No, but it’s a cherry on top if they don’t have to learn what the rivalry is all about the hard way.

I think Daly makes an even better head coach than defensive coordinator.

I was thinking the same thing.

[MrGoodKat]

Yeah, I mean why even consider someone with proven big sky success when you'll have candidates with none? Not saying Bobby shouldn't be considered, or Howe. Ed lamb won the big sky with a tin cup's worth of resources. Cody Hawkins kept his team going thru a brutal schedule to rally and finish 4th. They would absolutely get a call, imo, if our job comes open.

Montana State has way higher standards and they should.

[Cataholic]

If it’s not OSU right now, CSU is still open and after this weekend and the subsequent domino affect throughout the FBS, there will be other positions in play.

We’re in for a few weeks of roller coaster I feel.

We could find out tomorrow it’s OSU, or we could find out in 2 weeks is XYZ job. Or he could be back next year.

This time of year is fun.

The streets say CSU wants polasek if he isn't hired at OSU.

This don’t make sense to me. I would think the CSU job is more attractive than the OSU job. Same conference now as well.

As a beaver fan who joined to give insight about our true candidates.. CSU isn’t even close to us lol.. we roll them in every aspect. We paid $1.5m for a QB this year.. that’s the whole NIL budget pretty much.. Facilities and such. It’s OSU by a mile.

Wasn’t trying to be condescending. Just making an observation given the brand new CSU stadium and the major metropolitan area. However, the condescending attitude in your posts tells me entitlement runs rich in the OSU fan base. Yikes.

[Prodigal Cat]

Yeah, I mean why even consider someone with proven big sky success when you'll have candidates with none? Not saying Bobby shouldn't be considered, or Howe. Ed lamb won the big sky with a tin cup's worth of resources. Cody Hawkins kept his team going thru a brutal schedule to rally and finish 4th. They would absolutely get a call, imo, if our job comes open.

Montana State has way higher standards and they should.

Both those coaches have done more with less, much much less. Dismissing them is ignorant. I'm with Goldstone here.

[thefrank1]

If I assume that DB50's post above is honest, I have no concerns about losing Vigen to OSU. The other two candidates represent much less risk to OSU than Vigen and clearly would be the strong favorites. I am not worried about Vigen going to OSU.

[GoldstoneCat]

Yeah, I mean why even consider someone with proven big sky success when you'll have candidates with none? Not saying Bobby shouldn't be considered, or Howe. Ed lamb won the big sky with a tin cup's worth of resources. Cody Hawkins kept his team going thru a brutal schedule to rally and finish 4th. They would absolutely get a call, imo, if our job comes open.

Montana State has way higher standards and they should.

[MSUcat44]

I think people are reading too much into @DB50 comments. His first post was just explaining all the finalists for OSU and he honestly seemed quite friendly about the whole thing. Even saying **** Montana which is a bonus. I personally appreciate the insight from an OSU fan about the whole thing. I don’t think it was condescending at all. If I was a fan trying to give insight, just to get ripped apart in a different teams forum, I wouldn’t feel too good…

[MrGoodKat]

I think people are reading too much into @DB50 comments. His first post was just explaining all the finalists for OSU and he honestly seemed quite friendly about the whole thing. Even saying **** Montana which is a bonus. I personally appreciate the insight from an OSU fan about the whole thing. I don’t think it was condescending at all. If I was a fan trying to give insight, just to get ripped apart in a different teams forum, I wouldn’t feel too good…

And CSU is a pretty lowly program. It's not arrogance to say that OSU is a better job.

[DB50]

If I assume that DB50's post above is honest, I have no concerns about losing Vigen to OSU. The other two candidates represent much less risk to OSU than Vigen and clearly would be the strong favorites. I am not worried about Vigen going to OSU.

So of the risk assessment, in my mind Vigen is 2nd. Shephard has never been a HC nor coordinator. Now that doesn’t means much because you got a LOAD of HOF and national title coaches who were position before HC. Even some top use non title coaches!

To me Vigen and Wilcox are both very safe, Shep is the wildcard that has thrived at every big stop. Wilcox is just know, very known to this area. So he comes with defensive success and donor approval!

I think right now it’s Wilcox, Vigen, Shep in that order per the eyes of our ****** AD. Speaking of that Costello can come with

[DB50]

I think people are reading too much into @DB50 comments. His first post was just explaining all the finalists for OSU and he honestly seemed quite friendly about the whole thing. Even saying **** Montana which is a bonus. I personally appreciate the insight from an OSU fan about the whole thing. I don’t think it was condescending at all. If I was a fan trying to give insight, just to get ripped apart in a different teams forum, I wouldn’t feel too good…

All good! I didn’t even realize someone ripped me. lol I thought you guys were all nice in replies! I was just here to chat!

Idk what’s up with the dude saying there is entitlement in my reply. I was just stating CSUs NIL budget is less than what we paid our single QB. We gave quarter mil for each TE we got Etc.. but oh well! We are 100% better than CSU in every way for a better job!

Go cats and beavs!

[tetoncat]

And as I said, perhaps you are right and Daly is the right man for the job right now. But to zero in on one guy and dismiss other qualified candidates who you (jokingly, I know) suggested should earn a one week ban if mentioned would be a terrible way for Leon to search for a new coach.

I can't zero in on anyone. I'm just a nobody giving my opinion on who I think the best choice would be. It's just funny to me that I gave this whole thought process, ended with talking about how he's a former in-state player, specifically said that's not a pre-requisite, gave Vigen as the counter-example, and yet that's all that got responded to.

But more seriously, yes people who suggest we should go look at Northern Colorado's coach or try to coax a former Ash assistant away from Flagstaff should be sent to the gulags. That is unacceptable behavior. If people are into poaching failed coaches from BSC bottom-dwellers, they would probably feel more comfortable on the other side of the continental divide.

I was also responding to the first thing you said about Daly having been a former MSU assistant and therefore familiar with the program and players. To me, that's not something that should play a huge role. Hire the best coach. I don't care where he comes from or where he has been before or if he knows MSU's system.

Disagree here. Prior coach whose name we cannot say was extremely successful at D2. Brought that to Bozeman and was a disaster. Cats system of double reps, strength and conditioning, mental coaching is working. Why not keep doing that like other top Schools (NDSU) have done. New one would either need that inside connection or be able to explain to a committee that they would do similar things. Doesn't mean the O and D need to be same schemes.

[MSUcat44]

I think people are reading too much into @DB50 comments. His first post was just explaining all the finalists for OSU and he honestly seemed quite friendly about the whole thing. Even saying **** Montana which is a bonus. I personally appreciate the insight from an OSU fan about the whole thing. I don’t think it was condescending at all. If I was a fan trying to give insight, just to get ripped apart in a different teams forum, I wouldn’t feel too good…

All good! I didn’t even realize someone ripped me. lol I thought you guys were all nice in replies! I was just here to chat!

Idk what’s up with the dude saying there is entitlement in my reply. I was just stating CSUs NIL budget is less than what we paid our single QB. We gave quarter mil for each TE we got Etc.. but oh well! We are 100% better than CSU in every way for a better job!

Go cats and beavs!

Which coach are you and your friends hoping to get the most? Would it be Wilcox due to the money he would bring in?

[DB50]

I think people are reading too much into @DB50 comments. His first post was just explaining all the finalists for OSU and he honestly seemed quite friendly about the whole thing. Even saying **** Montana which is a bonus. I personally appreciate the insight from an OSU fan about the whole thing. I don’t think it was condescending at all. If I was a fan trying to give insight, just to get ripped apart in a different teams forum, I wouldn’t feel too good…

All good! I didn’t even realize someone ripped me. lol I thought you guys were all nice in replies! I was just here to chat!

Idk what’s up with the dude saying there is entitlement in my reply. I was just stating CSUs NIL budget is less than what we paid our single QB. We gave quarter mil for each TE we got Etc.. but oh well! We are 100% better than CSU in every way for a better job!

Go cats and beavs!

Which coach are you and your friends hoping to get the most? Would it be Wilcox due to the money he would bring in?

On our 247 board I’d say Shep. There is a poll weekly when candidates fall or get added. Shep wins it every time! If you watch a video of him at bama.. it’s crazy. Dude can smile and make you feel so hyped up! All while he’s chewing his WRs out lol! He brings this INSANE energy to interviews and spoken to an ex player I know from UW who Shep was his coach. He said that man cares about his players all while demanding the most out of them. But comes with this is risk!

The old heads (I’m 29 so the young guns want Shep) want Vigen. The older crowd like his no nonsense, and his experience. Older crowd usually donate more so they do in my mind swing a bigger stick!

[MrGoodKat]

Yeah, I mean why even consider someone with proven big sky success when you'll have candidates with none? Not saying Bobby shouldn't be considered, or Howe. Ed lamb won the big sky with a tin cup's worth of resources. Cody Hawkins kept his team going thru a brutal schedule to rally and finish 4th. They would absolutely get a call, imo, if our job comes open.

Montana State has way higher standards and they should.

Both those coaches have done more with less, much much less. Dismissing them is ignorant. I'm with Goldstone here.

Ok, I'll drop the snark and engage with you seriously on this.

Ed Lamb seems like a fine coach, but the fact of the matter is, even despite his past success at SUU, the best job he could find was Northern Colorado. Despite the good reviews he's gotten this season, the Bears have won three conference games in three seasons with him. Also, I'm highly skeptical of coaches from the BYU/Utah world being able to replicate their success outside of that bubble. That's all I will say about that.

Cody Hawkins has been fine in Pocatello. But UCD didn't want him (they chose a better coach) and his only experience is what he's done at ISU and working under his dad.

I am only being realistic when I say that a program of Montana State's caliber should have much higher standards than that. If that offends people, I don't know what to tell them.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Imagine if you will for a minute.

You have a coaching candidate who spent several years as the DC for an elite FCS program. Proven recruiter, proven good coach. He has FBS experience and has done well there as a coordinator. He has been a part of rebuilding programs, he has been a part of consistent elite programs. Knows how to build, knows how to maintain. Now, get this. He has learned from several great head coaches. He even has experience in a program in your immediate region, knows your main rival very well, and has recruited your region with great success for years.

If Daly was coming from anywhere else with that resume, people would say he’s a slam dunk good hire. Acting like he shouldn’t be the leading candidate because he’s from here is just foolish. Now this doesn’t mean they don’t do any actual search, but with his experience with this program, the current players, and knowing that we want to keep the continuity that we have, he is without a doubt, option #1.

[cats2506]

Imagine if you will for a minute.

You have a coaching candidate who spent several years as the DC for an elite FCS program. Proven recruiter, proven good coach. He has FBS experience and has done well there as a coordinator. He has been a part of rebuilding programs, he has been a part of consistent elite programs. Knows how to build, knows how to maintain. Now, get this. He has learned from several great head coaches. He even has experience in a program in your immediate region, knows your main rival very well, and has recruited your region with great success for years.

If Daly was coming from anywhere else with that resume, people would say he’s a slam dunk good hire. Acting like he shouldn’t be the leading candidate because he’s from here is just foolish. Now this doesn’t mean they don’t do any actual search, but with his experience with this program, the current players, and knowing that we want to keep the continuity that we have, he is without a doubt, option #1.

I agree, Daly would be my immediate pick if it comes to that.

Lamb is a good coach, but no.

maybe Bobby will apply, if he goes 2-6 it might be rough for him over there

[GoldstoneCat]

Yeah, I mean why even consider someone with proven big sky success when you'll have candidates with none? Not saying Bobby shouldn't be considered, or Howe. Ed lamb won the big sky with a tin cup's worth of resources. Cody Hawkins kept his team going thru a brutal schedule to rally and finish 4th. They would absolutely get a call, imo, if our job comes open.

Montana State has way higher standards and they should.

Both those coaches have done more with less, much much less. Dismissing them is ignorant. I'm with Goldstone here.

Ok, I'll drop the snark and engage with you seriously on this.

Ed Lamb seems like a fine coach, but the fact of the matter is, even despite his past success at SUU, the best job he could find was Northern Colorado. Despite the good reviews he's gotten this season, the Bears have won three conference games in three seasons with him. Also, I'm highly skeptical of coaches from the BYU/Utah world being able to replicate their success outside of that bubble. That's all I will say about that.

Cody Hawkins has been fine in Pocatello. But UCD didn't want him (they chose a better coach) and his only experience is what he's done at ISU and working under his dad.

I am only being realistic when I say that a program of Montana State's caliber should have much higher standards than that. If that offends people, I don't know what to tell them.

Just so I'm clear, the "better coach" Davis hired is the one who just got clowned AT HOME by Cody Hawkins' Bengals, knocking Davis out of the big sky title race?

[PapaG]

Imagine if you will for a minute.

You have a coaching candidate who spent several years as the DC for an elite FCS program. Proven recruiter, proven good coach. He has FBS experience and has done well there as a coordinator. He has been a part of rebuilding programs, he has been a part of consistent elite programs. Knows how to build, knows how to maintain. Now, get this. He has learned from several great head coaches. He even has experience in a program in your immediate region, knows your main rival very well, and has recruited your region with great success for years.

If Daly was coming from anywhere else with that resume, people would say he’s a slam dunk good hire. Acting like he shouldn’t be the leading candidate because he’s from here is just foolish. Now this doesn’t mean they don’t do any actual search, but with his experience with this program, the current players, and knowing that we want to keep the continuity that we have, he is without a doubt, option #1.

Unless he completely botches the interview process or something negative comes out about him, I want Daly as well and I think he would be the younger energy needed to sustain Vigen’s consistent culture of excellence. Volatility isn’t good for a program and the team to the west has a coach who seems to enable it, if not create it on purpose.

Bobby was a very disciplined player, too. I like the coach who has a plan and doesn’t need to be the “star” of the program like Hauck has set up for himself in Missoula.