FIRE EVERYONE!

[gris_h8er]

As a wise man once said “stats are for losers.” At the end of the day, the only stat that matters is the score. MSU hasn’t faired well in this statistical category against the Dakotas. Moral victories are a temporary solution to a larger problem. That’s the point I’m making. Like I said, cats have narrowed the gap in recent years but haven’t been able to break thru when it counts. The receipts are in the final scores.

So if we lost 45-0 and looks years away from building a team good enough to beating them, you’re cool with that?

At least there would be no doubt, coming up short is more frustrating than getting routed out of the building. The complacency of “almost” from the fan base and coaches is getting old.

Why are saying it’s complacency? I don’t see anyone being complacent. Things are just handed to you on a platter. You need to not only analyze the bad but the good. Fans in this situation over think things. I feel strongly that we’re just as good and we will beat them if we stay the course. I don’t think we’ll never beat cuz we’ve lost four close games. I would if we were losing like we did the previous four. What was it 39-18, 38-10, 42-14, 52-10. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. There’s still work to do but we don’t need to reinvent the wheel or just quit.

How many years have we been “staying the course”? How many more will it take? I want to mark my calendar so I know when “staying the course” will result in a national championship. Should I buy my Frisco tickets for 2033 or wait til 2035? Obviously there is a schedule and we’re right on time I’m just impatient.

You acting entitled.

And you are being complacent.

[catzz]

As a wise man once said “stats are for losers.” At the end of the day, the only stat that matters is the score. MSU hasn’t faired well in this statistical category against the Dakotas. Moral victories are a temporary solution to a larger problem. That’s the point I’m making. Like I said, cats have narrowed the gap in recent years but haven’t been able to break thru when it counts. The receipts are in the final scores.

So if we lost 45-0 and looks years away from building a team good enough to beating them, you’re cool with that?

At least there would be no doubt, coming up short is more frustrating than getting routed out of the building. The complacency of “almost” from the fan base and coaches is getting old.

Why are saying it’s complacency? I don’t see anyone being complacent. Things are just handed to you on a platter. You need to not only analyze the bad but the good. Fans in this situation over think things. I feel strongly that we’re just as good and we will beat them if we stay the course. I don’t think we’ll never beat cuz we’ve lost four close games. I would if we were losing like we did the previous four. What was it 39-18, 38-10, 42-14, 52-10. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. There’s still work to do but we don’t need to reinvent the wheel or just quit.

How many years have we been “staying the course”? How many more will it take? I want to mark my calendar so I know when “staying the course” will result in a national championship. Should I buy my Frisco tickets for 2033 or wait til 2035? Obviously there is a schedule and we’re right on time I’m just impatient.

You know, you could probably fix this as soon as next year if you want. Start with a million to the NIL or players of your choice really. If we keep some of the talent on the roster and not lose a handful of important guys to the FBS each year are instantly improved. While I feel like Vigen has managed that aspect of keeping, recruiting and developing players to the best of his abilities, we continue to take hits. See NDSU, through their Green and Gold Collective and other avenues. They have been able to keep players around. We aren’t there yet in that regard.

[TomCat88]

The ultimate thing is winning it’s why you play. I love watching two really good or great teams play and having the game go down to the wire. I don’t like it when one has a good game and the other plays poorly and it’s a wipe out. I don’t consider that game to have been indicative of how good each team is.

The last four games MSU has had with the Dakotas have lived up to the hype. I feel fortunate to have witnessed them all in person.

I don’t really like Cinderella stories. I think they should actually be called Ugly Step Sister stories. I mean a team that isn’t that good is ugly not pretty. I like to see the two best teams make it to the championship and have an epic game with each other.

The last four Cat-Griz games weren’t indicative of how good the teams were. MSU wasn’t 34 points better than UM and vice versa.

Yeah, these games with the DSU's are really good from a strict sports fan perspective. I can see fans of a team being disappointed but you gotta admit it's exciting. It's like a rival triangle. They're clearly the three best teams in the FCS right now. There's always room for more and maybe someone will come up with a better system, but this one is tried and true. I really like Julius Davis's comments after the game. Something about how, 'this game is over and we're moving on. We're heading into the storm, not looking back at it.'

[SparkCat]

gris-h8er, you much like Veruca Salt, are a bad egg. ‘Hey, Daddy, I want a National Championship! I want you to get me a National Championship right away!’

Then you will say, ‘at least I’m not complacent’. Thing is, no one here is complacent, any current player I have spoken to loves the culture Vigen has created and respect him as a coach. So, I guess you’re also calling out the players, busting their butts for our entertainment, for being complacent. You are just a spoiled brat.

[gris_h8er]

I hope I’m wrong and my frustrations with Vigen are nothing more than small missteps. I hope he’s thinking of all the things to fix this and beat them in the playoffs. I hope all of the people not seeing anything wrong are right. If thats the case it means the plane is gonna be one trophy heavier taking off from Frisco that the plane that left Bozeman. That will be a great day.

If that’s not the case then something has to be done to beat the dsus and the gris in missoula. I think that starts with a new HC. Am I right? Who knows

Either win in which case I’m wrong about Vigen and my skepticism was overplayed or my detractions of Vigen are anccurate and I think a change of leadership is in order.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I would hope we can agree that being a Bobcat is great and winning makes it that much sweater. I hope Vigen accomplishes the goals he was hired to achieve. If he doesn’t show him the door.

[gris_h8er]

gris-h8er, you much like Veruca Salt, are a bad egg. ‘Hey, Daddy, I want a National Championship! I want you to get me a National Championship right away!’

Then you will say, ‘at least I’m not complacent’. Thing is, no one here is complacent, any current player I have spoken to loves the culture Vigen has created and respect him as a coach. So, I guess you’re also calling out the players, busting their butts for our entertainment, for being complacent. You are just a spoiled brat.

Right away is false. It’s been 4 years and change. By no definition of the phrase does that qualify as “right away”. What was one of the goals cited during his hiring? Something along the lines of national championship victory I believe. Who knows, maybe the spoiled attitude I have is clouding my memory.

[onceacat]

This thread is bonkers. Cats lose 3 coin flip games to the DSUsover the last 3 years & peole act like the sky is falling?

SMH

[coloradocat]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

[gris_h8er]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

I’m no Vigen fan and I don’t necessarily agree but this is a legitimate analysis. Much better than the “everything is fine” “you just don’t like Vigen” “this is not a big deal at all” that most people offer up. I hope you’re right and he beats the dsus in the playoffs.

[TomCat88]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

Again, it’s an analogy. Not a literal statement. The Cats and Bison and Jacks are very evenly matched. The last four games have been great. So good that just a minor change either way made the difference.

These are games that make you love the sport. At some point you have to put your fan hat away and just appreciate what a great era of competitive football this is between the three teams. Since 2021 there have only been four games decided by more than a TD out 10 games. One was when Mellott was hurt on first series. MSU actually has one of the wins over a TD. SDSU beat ndsu by 20 in the chipper.

[Cataholic]

I recall this gris_h8 poster complaining about Vigen in the past. His username is a variation of another poster here so it stuck in my mind. I looked at his previous posts and He clearly has some personal vendetta against Vigen. His last posts prior to yesterday was to berate Vigen for being a terrible coach when we beat New Mexico last year. We then ran 14 straight wins and he didn’t make a peep till yesterday. He is an entitled fan who just makes the fan base look bad.

We just took the number two team in the nation into double overtime. We had chances to win the game right. There is no problem. If we lose a couple more games, let’s talk then, but I see this team with 10 straight wins. The OC needs to quit running Lamson so much and the offensive line needs to figure out some things. We will be okay.

Definitely be ok and likely be an 8+ win season. However that doesn’t mean that’s the end goal or there is nothing to improve. It also doesn’t mean that winning a cream puff schedule makes Vigen the second coming.

You’re absolutely right I have a bone to pick with Vigen, he was supposed to elevate to the dsus and win a national championship. Unless I missed something we’re still waiting on him to accomplish those goals. So the question is how many mistakes, how many close calls and how many coming up short games is enough? Should the Vigen train be ridden to .500 or below? Or should the plug be pulled now and try to push to the next level with a new guy?

And you’re right, I had nothing to say cause it looked like the problems were solved. I wasn’t thrilled with how they called plays for Tommy but it worked out in spite of what I saw to be mistakes. Unfortunately this team is making the same mistakes that showed up two years ago against Idaho. So the question is what happened? Did Vigen learn/not learn? New roster? Coordinators not listening to the greatest coach in Bobcat history?

How old are you? My guess is early 30’s and have never experienced a rough patch. I can tell you with 100% certainty that 2 losses to VERY good teams (they both might undefeated) is not indicative of trouble. The cupboard is certainly not bare. We have multiple dudes that will be recruited by FBS programs for next season.

You act like winning a national championship is a god given right. It isn’t. Other teams with very qualified personnel, and in many cases better resources, are striving for the same goal.

If you are so passionate about your “right” to a national championship, why don’t you pull out your checkbook and start writing NIL checks to keep our top guys. Zimmer will be offered a six figure deal this offseason to play somewhere else next year. It is the reality of today’s game. You basically have called for firings of people who make their livelihood coaching at MSU, why don’t you put your financial commitment in the same category?

Lastly, the past 4 years of Bobcat football have been some of the most successful (if not the best ever) run of football MSU has ever seen. If you want to be that entitled fan and trash coaches with no real justification, then you are better off at egriz.

[onceacat]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

If you lose a game because the replay crew ignores the rule about overturning the call on the field, yeah, its actually random.

Give NDSU credit for the blocked point & give SDSU credit for the OT win. And, yeah, you are right...if NDSU & SDSU consistently make those plays in OT, maybe they are slightly aghead. But the difference is pretty slight.

Its not as though the sky is falling here.

[GoldstoneCat]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

If you lose a game because the replay crew ignores the rule about overturning the call on the field, yeah, its actually random.

Give NDSU credit for the blocked point & give SDSU credit for the OT win. And, yeah, you are right...if NDSU & SDSU consistently make those plays in OT, maybe they are slightly aghead. But the difference is pretty slight.

Its not as though the sky is falling here.

This.

[onceacat]

I hope I’m wrong and my frustrations with Vigen are nothing more than small missteps. I hope he’s thinking of all the things to fix this and beat them in the playoffs. I hope all of the people not seeing anything wrong are right. If thats the case it means the plane is gonna be one trophy heavier taking off from Frisco that the plane that left Bozeman. That will be a great day.

If that’s not the case then something has to be done to beat the dsus and the gris in missoula. I think that starts with a new HC. Am I right? Who knows

Either win in which case I’m wrong about Vigen and my skepticism was overplayed or my detractions of Vigen are anccurate and I think a change of leadership is in order.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I would hope we can agree that being a Bobcat is great and winning makes it that much sweater. I hope Vigen accomplishes the goals he was hired to achieve. If he doesn’t show him the door.

Jeff Choate was 4-0 against the gris in Missoula but never sniffed the chipper & is looking like hes way out of his depth at Nevada.

And he was a pretty good coach here.

The idea that we are going to replace an 77% win rate coach with a 100% win rate coach is totally absurd.

[GoldstoneCat]

gris-h8er, you much like Veruca Salt, are a bad egg. ‘Hey, Daddy, I want a National Championship! I want you to get me a National Championship right away!’

Then you will say, ‘at least I’m not complacent’. Thing is, no one here is complacent, any current player I have spoken to loves the culture Vigen has created and respect him as a coach. So, I guess you’re also calling out the players, busting their butts for our entertainment, for being complacent. You are just a spoiled brat.

Right away is false. It’s been 4 years and change. By no definition of the phrase does that qualify as “right away”. What was one of the goals cited during his hiring? Something along the lines of national championship victory I believe. Who knows, maybe the spoiled attitude I have is clouding my memory.

There is a 0% chance Vigen ever gets fired for performance here. 0%. By all means continue your crusade if you like. But it'll never happen. He's elevated us, like it or not. Ash did, then the wheels fell off. Choate got that out of the ditch but never elevated us even to the top of the big sky. Vigen has. And the arrow is still up, in my view. We are going to win either 9 or 10 games and be a seed in a year where we have to replace some of the best guys to ever play for us. A fireable offense? I think decidedly not.

[coloradocat]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

If you lose a game because the replay crew ignores the rule about overturning the call on the field, yeah, its actually random.

Give NDSU credit for the blocked point & give SDSU credit for the OT win. And, yeah, you are right...if NDSU & SDSU consistently make those plays in OT, maybe they are slightly aghead. But the difference is pretty slight.

Its not as though the sky is falling here.

Difference is very slight but it's there. I agree, the sky isn't falling.

This is the greatest era of Bobcat football in history. The fact that we're so close to it being even better takes nothing away from that.

[GoldstoneCat]

I hope I’m wrong and my frustrations with Vigen are nothing more than small missteps. I hope he’s thinking of all the things to fix this and beat them in the playoffs. I hope all of the people not seeing anything wrong are right. If thats the case it means the plane is gonna be one trophy heavier taking off from Frisco that the plane that left Bozeman. That will be a great day.

If that’s not the case then something has to be done to beat the dsus and the gris in missoula. I think that starts with a new HC. Am I right? Who knows

Either win in which case I’m wrong about Vigen and my skepticism was overplayed or my detractions of Vigen are anccurate and I think a change of leadership is in order.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I would hope we can agree that being a Bobcat is great and winning makes it that much sweater. I hope Vigen accomplishes the goals he was hired to achieve. If he doesn’t show him the door.

Jeff Choate was 4-0 against the gris in Missoula but never sniffed the chipper & is looking like hes way out of his depth at Nevada.

And he was a pretty good coach here.

The idea that we are going to replace an 77% win rate coach with a 100% win rate coach is totally absurd.

Those choate teams were completely non competitive against the DSUs. Some here continually forget that bc we won a couple griz games we shouldn't have.

[ilovethecats]

If you lose every coin flip game, maybe it's not a coin flip? At some point the randomness isn't randomness. There's nothing wrong with admitting that we're still a half step behind the DSUs. How often do they lose close games at home against teams that some consider are comparable opponents? Just because we should have won the last two home games doesn't mean that we are at their level and a few things broke the wrong way. I still think we'll get there, as long as Vigen is here, but we're not quite there yet. Real close though.

If you lose a game because the replay crew ignores the rule about overturning the call on the field, yeah, its actually random.

Give NDSU credit for the blocked point & give SDSU credit for the OT win. And, yeah, you are right...if NDSU & SDSU consistently make those plays in OT, maybe they are slightly aghead. But the difference is pretty slight.

Its not as though the sky is falling here.

I’m only speaking for myself here as people tend to get pretty extreme both ways.

We’ve known for over a year the possibility of starting this season 0-2. Two very good teams to face out of the gate. I still believe the Cats are very good and I think we can run the table at least till the brawl. I think we can get a seed.

I’m just very very tired of losing to the Dakotas. Sure the games are fun. That’s great. I love competitive games. But when it comes to the sports teams that I personally root for and in the case of the Cats invest in; I want them to WIN. I’m so tired of hearing that we’re right there with the Dakotas simply because we can compete with them. I love that we can compete. Love that they no longer dominate us. But so tired of playing these guys, thinking we can win, but expecting to probably lose, and then act like I’m super happy that we competed well. It just doesn’t mean anything.

Tom used a mogul skiing analogy earlier. And I agree that if you’re a good skier and lose a few races you don’t sell your skis. You find a way to get better. I’m not advocating the Cats do anything extreme. I love that we’re very good and I love our head coach. But that skiing example isn’t really what is happening with our football program so it was kinda apples and oranges to me.

What if there were 3 skiers, Tom, Jim and John. Tom’s a decent skier but not as good as Jim and John. In fact, John used to absolutely crush Tom but as of lately he still wins, but Tom is at least competitive. Jim kinda came out of nowhere and he always beats Tom almost every race and even beats John.

Tom’s mother loves Tom very much and tells all her friends that of all the skiers around, no one is better than her son. If anything Jim and John are equally as good as Tom, but not better. Despite the fact that every time they have raced, Jim and John have beat Tom every time but once!

I’d be more inclined to agree with Tom’s mother if Tom started beating Jim and John; and not just being really close to beating them or perhaps beating them if only a few more things would or wouldn’t have happened.

[onceacat]

gris-h8er, you much like Veruca Salt, are a bad egg. ‘Hey, Daddy, I want a National Championship! I want you to get me a National Championship right away!’

Then you will say, ‘at least I’m not complacent’. Thing is, no one here is complacent, any current player I have spoken to loves the culture Vigen has created and respect him as a coach. So, I guess you’re also calling out the players, busting their butts for our entertainment, for being complacent. You are just a spoiled brat.

Right away is false. It’s been 4 years and change. By no definition of the phrase does that qualify as “right away”. What was one of the goals cited during his hiring? Something along the lines of national championship victory I believe. Who knows, maybe the spoiled attitude I have is clouding my memory.

There is a 0% chance Vigen ever gets fired for performance here. 0%. By all means continue your crusade if you like. But it'll never happen. He's elevated us, like it or not. Ash did, then the wheels fell off. Choate got that out of the ditch but never elevated us even to the top of the big sky. Vigen has. And the arrow is still up, in my view. We are going to win either 9 or 10 games and be a seed in a year where we have to replace some of the best guys to ever play for us. A fireable offense? I think decidedly not.

There are 129 teams in FCS football, and there are exactly two that wouldn't trade their HC for Vigen in a heartbeat. There are at least 100 FBS teams that would take him too.

I have no inside info, but my guess is that as soon as Grant graduates, Vigen will take a power 4 OC/DC job, maybe even a lower tier Power 4 HC job.

[msuhunter]

“Acting entitled” has become this board’s equivalent to divorced spiteful women using the phrases “gaslighting” and “narcissist”