Fall Camp

[kcatz]

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy had one of the greatest offensive seasons in school history, and in FCS/I-AA football. You’re crazy if you think that someone is just going to walk in the door and be better. There might be better pure passers, but we could easily go the rest of our lives and not have a QB have a season like last year. You’re delusional if you think that’s replicable.

Neither I nor BB said it was going to happen, just that it could. As great as Tommy was, he was never a great QB (hence switching positions while Miller gets drafted as a QB). If Lamson, or someone else in the future, turns out to be Miller+ then it could definitely happen if everything were to fall right. It's more likely that it doesn't happen but that's a given after what Tommy accomplished.

I don't think it's impossible. That's where the argument is.

Game on the line- you taking Lulay or Mellot?

Depends who they have around them.

EXACTLY! Mellott with Lulay's best line probably a push and at best we have similar win/loss.

Lulay with Mellott's previous 4 years of Oline maybe we have a national championship ???

The world will never know.

Both gave 100%+ to the end of every play. Both had that it factory that turned close games in our favor. Lulay had better arm but Tommy had a team built for his run/pass style. Both won games we should have (or could have lost) on crazy comebacks. Tommy had fewer losses (career) but he also had a different coach with a different coaching style.

Would be fun to ask Lulay what he thinks...he did say in an interview last year he watched whenever he could.

[kwcat]

Lulay is humble. He would say Mellott is the better quarterback. And vice versa if you asked Tommy.

[PapaG]

I think I’ve said this in another thread before, but I really believe this team will be better than last year. More balanced, better suited to attack teams. I’m very high on Lamson, maybe too high, but I think we upgraded at QB. I’m gonna run away after that comment lol

Another time we agree and I’m hearing good things from parents of a few players about Lamson.

I think after the Oregon game it is 11 straight wins and a path to Nashville running through the valley.

[GoodTimesAllTheTime]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy had one of the greatest offensive seasons in school history, and in FCS/I-AA football. You’re crazy if you think that someone is just going to walk in the door and be better. There might be better pure passers, but we could easily go the rest of our lives and not have a QB have a season like last year. You’re delusional if you think that’s replicable.

Neither I nor BB said it was going to happen, just that it could. As great as Tommy was, he was never a great QB (hence switching positions while Miller gets drafted as a QB). If Lamson, or someone else in the future, turns out to be Miller+ then it could definitely happen if everything were to fall right. It's more likely that it doesn't happen but that's a given after what Tommy accomplished.

I don't think it's impossible. That's where the argument is.

I think you’re conflating being a better passer with being a better QB. Could we have a better passer at the position this season? Sure. But Tommy absolutely was a great and irreplaceable QB. Whether he fits the NFL prototype for a QB is immaterial. The throws he was making last season, particularly in the championship, were insane. He’s probably the most dynamic player with the ball in his hands the Cats have ever had. He could have had even gaudier offensive stats last season had he used his legs more. If we’re lucky, Lamson (or whoever plays QB) is 90% of Tommy. If he’s anywhere above 80% we have a chance at winning it all. But let’s not get carried away about anyone being as good as Tommy, or even as good as Miller was last season.

[PapaG]

I remember when Dmac left people were saying, how he lost the locker room and how he wasn’t that good of a thrower. Said his stats were inflated by the way our offense was and some were even stating how we would be a better overall team the next year with a more balanced QB. Well we all know how that went. I will hold my breath before I say anything abut the passing game this year. Grass isn’t always greener, and it’s easy to forget how good the prior players were when we got an exciting season coming up.

DeNarius joined PKA and butthurt a certain poster.

[grizzh8r]

Lulay is humble. He would say Mellott is the better quarterback. And vice versa if you asked Tommy.

Truth! Both excellent human beings in that regard.

Regarding the question of who I'm taking when the game is on the line, it's tough. Both were extremely clutch. But so was DMac. I couldn't choose between the three. All were excellent leaders who rose to the occasion more often than not.

[GoldstoneCat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

[GoldstoneCat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Life is full of nuance

A more dramatic example for you. Troy Andersen was an all conference player when he played QB. Without a doubt, a fantastic player. He was also a very mediocre QB, despite being a good player when lined up at that position. Obviously Tommy was better in all facets of that, but I’m just using it as an example.

I think the offense can be better. Able to score points when the explosive plays aren’t there. But I’m biased. I’ve been saying Lamson was the perfect fit for our offense back in December to my BIL when I knew they were recruiting him.

He could be great. Or he could be the Tyler bruggman of Tyler thomases. Lots to expect to think he'll lead a better offense than ours last year. I think our memories have gotten very short. That was a historic team last year. The fact they didn't close it out is a crying shame.

[TomCat88]

I think I’ve said this in another thread before, but I really believe this team will be better than last year. More balanced, better suited to attack teams. I’m very high on Lamson, maybe too high, but I think we upgraded at QB. I’m gonna run away after that comment lol

Another time we agree and I’m hearing good things from parents of a few players about Lamson.

I think after the Oregon game it is 11 straight wins and a path to Nashville running through the valley.

For a second there I thought you weren’t going to work Oregon in there but I see you managed after a colossal 21 words.

[TomCat88]

Justin Lamson might be the best quarterback Vigen and Co. have had to work with. He’s not as statistically good as Chambers and McKay in college but he probably played against stiffer competition. I think McKay rolled up big numbers vs East Carolina. Chambers had a tough time beating some BSC team. lol He never had a chance to be the guy at MSU.

[SparkCat]

Tommy was great for MSU and the offense we ran. Tommy had a great senior year, however, that team did not win a national championship. Tommy also, despite his accomplishments will not be the greatest quarterback that MSU has ever had, and that is not a knock on him. The way some post about him on here, you’d think he walks on water.

[Cataholic]

Tommy was great for MSU and the offense we ran. Tommy had a great senior year, however, that team did not win a national championship. Tommy also, despite his accomplishments will not be the greatest quarterback that MSU has ever had, and that is not a knock on him. The way some post about him on here, you’d think he walks on water.

Tommy is the only player at MSU to ever win the Walter Payton award. I am guessing he has won more games than any other QB in MSU history. He probably has more playoff wins than another MSU QB. And probably more awards than any other QB in history.

My bigger question is what prompted you to make such a proclamation that he isn’t the best? Did you need to make sure no one would dare draw that conclusion? Makes no sense to me.

[gtapp]

I think the biggest improvement in the offense this year is the Offensive Coordinator! Tyler Walker did an admirable job but I think we made a measurable upgrade this year.

[JoeCatsJoe]

I think it’s possible we’ll be a more diverse offense, sure. Mix in some over the middle throws like we’ve been clamoring for. But I think we quickly forget how important and rare a player like Tommy is. A home run threat on every single play. At any point, he can rip off a 75 yard TD. Remember that play against South Dakota where the play broke down, and Tommy’s turned a disastrous play into a touchdown? More diverse doesn’t equal better. It’s hard to quantify how valuable that home run threat is for an offense. I think Lamson could be awesome, and be at the head of a fantastic offense. But be better than last year’s Walter Payton winner? Even if that ends up being true, it seems ludicrous to come in thinking or expecting that.

[nanacat]

I'm not really sure why it's necessary to throw Tommy under the bus on order to elevate Lamson. Good grief he hasn't been made QB1 yet, and hasn't played a snap. Until he does, Tommy is one of the best QBs MSU has fielded and we should be grateful for what he brought to the team, both as a player, as a representative for the university, and as a genuine great person.
To think he's irreplaceable is also wrong. There will be others who are better, as that is what college football demands and creates. This program, in the short time that I've been a fan, (15 years) has grown into something terrific! I'm excited to see who the next Walter Payton award winner is from MSU, who actually leads the team to that National Championship win, and next undefeated season.
Tommy left his mark on this program and made it better, maybe Lamson will too. Let's wait and see.

[CodyCat]

It’s laughable to me that Lamson is in any conversation that he may be better than Tommy. If Lamson is the starter, and if he can have 2/3’s the production that Tommy had, we might make it to the semi’s. I believe in Vigen and his QB prowess. At this point, there is no reason not to. Which means Lamson et al will most likely be a really good QB. But at this point to think any of the QB’s are another Tommy is wild.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I'm not really sure why it's necessary to throw Tommy under the bus on order to elevate Lamson. Good grief he hasn't been made QB1 yet, and hasn't played a snap. Until he does, Tommy is one of the best QBs MSU has fielded and we should be grateful for what he brought to the team, both as a player, as a representative for the university, and as a genuine great person.
To think he's irreplaceable is also wrong. There will be others who are better, as that is what college football demands and creates. This program, in the short time that I've been a fan, (15 years) has grown into something terrific! I'm excited to see who the next Walter Payton award winner is from MSU, who actually leads the team to that National Championship win, and next undefeated season.
Tommy left his mark on this program and made it better, maybe Lamson will too. Let's wait and see.

Who has thrown Tommy under the bus?

[tetoncat]

It’s laughable to me that Lamson is in any conversation that he may be better than Tommy. If Lamson is the starter, and if he can have 2/3’s the production that Tommy had, we might make it to the semi’s. I believe in Vigen and his QB prowess. At this point, there is no reason not to. Which means Lamson et al will most likely be a really good QB. But at this point to think any of the QB’s are another Tommy is wild.

Seems like most have said he wont be another Tommy. They just believe he is a better passer and can run. Those together give potential along with strong core around him to have as good a statistical season. Heck other QBs last year had arguments for Payton but winning puts you to top of list. We haven't seen him play so who knows but message boards are for discussing this season and it's potential. Shoot some clammered for Chambers to play more over Tommy.

[MSU01]

Someone here is doing an absolutely masterful job of making provocative statements just for the sake of being provocative and generating discussion, without going so far that those statements may not turn out to be absolutely true.

[GoodTimesAllTheTime]

Tommy was great for MSU and the offense we ran. Tommy had a great senior year, however, that team did not win a national championship. Tommy also, despite his accomplishments will not be the greatest quarterback that MSU has ever had, and that is not a knock on him. The way some post about him on here, you’d think he walks on water.

The offense we ran that scored the most points in the country? Any improvement we can hope for this season is on the defensive side of the ball. We just have to hope that the offense stays anywhere near last seasons’s level.

Also, Tommy’s performance in the national championship game was phenomenal. It’s crazy to imply that was his fault whatsoever. He had over 300 yards of offense by himself. His season last year is the best by a Bobcat QB ever, and probably will be for quite a long time.