The Realignment Options from the Pac-6 and Mountain West Perspective.

[coloradocat]

New Mexico State will leave the CUSA to join their buddies New Mexico in the MWC
UTEP is added
UNLV leaves to the Pac
MSU and UM get invited (and get a chunk of money to come)

MWC:
Air Force
Nevada
Wyoming
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Montana
Montana State
Hawaii
UTEP
SJSU

I get my own radio show and quit my day job

APPROVED

[kmax]

New Mexico State will leave the CUSA to join their buddies New Mexico in the MWC
UTEP is added
UNLV leaves to the Pac
MSU and UM get invited (and get a chunk of money to come)

MWC:
Air Force
Nevada
Wyoming
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Montana
Montana State
Hawaii
UTEP
SJSU

I get my own radio show and quit my day job

And the next NCAA game I get to play as MSU for real with all the players and Bobcat Stadium and take them to a Natty.

[CodyCat]

That would be absolutely WILD if by next season the Cats were in the MW. New conference logos all around campus. That is hard to wrap my mind around.

[catatac]

Is that really a possibility? I haven't been keeping up on all the moves here but even if that decision was made, wouldn't it take years to actually complete the transition?

[IA_CAT]

Who knows what happens the crazy world of CFB realignment...other than it's mostly about money and selling advertising.

With 2 teams splitting a state of just over 1M people and a combined enrollment of 28k students between them, not sure that MSU/UM have an attractive enough media market to be invited (as compared to taking 2 teams from separate & more populous areas) but in the event that MSU received an invite to the Mountain West, I thought the information in these charts was interesting...

MSU vs. Remaining MWC Team Revenues/Expenses (2023)

Expenses: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/77d3fb30
Revenues: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/1ff869c1

(The final bar on each chart is MSU.) Looking like another ~$20M would be needed in the MSU athletics budget to get roughly on par with the remaining MWC competition. 2023 Institutional/Govt Support shows just over $17M combined (MSU $9.9+UM $7.14M). The State would have to be willing to double that funding, or it's a likely a non-starter.

[cats2506]

Is that really a possibility? I haven't been keeping up on all the moves here but even if that decision was made, wouldn't it take years to actually complete the transition?

Usually FCS teams that move up are not eligible for "Post Season" for 3 or 4 years, meaning bowl games.

[Prodigal Cat]

Is that really a possibility? I haven't been keeping up on all the moves here but even if that decision was made, wouldn't it take years to actually complete the transition?

Usually FCS teams that move up are not eligible for "Post Season" for 3 or 4 years, meaning bowl games.

Technically its only 1 year but it seems longer. In this case these Conference changes are effective July 1 2026. So if the Montana schools accepted an invite this year they would play their FCS schedules in '25 but wouldn't be eligible for FCS post season because they would be a transitioning school. Then they would play an FBS schedule in '26 but still no post season because they would be an FBS transitioning school.

If it was effective in july of '25 they would play an FBS schedule next season and would only be ineligible that year just like JMU a couple years ago. JMU even tried to get a waiver to play in a bowl game because they had enough wins their first season in the Sun Belt.

[coloradocat]

Who knows what happens the crazy world of CFB realignment...other than it's mostly about money and selling advertising.

With 2 teams splitting a state of just over 1M people and a combined enrollment of 28k students between them, not sure that MSU/UM have an attractive enough media market to be invited (as compared to taking 2 teams from separate & more populous areas) but in the event that MSU received an invite to the Mountain West, I thought the information in these charts was interesting...

MSU vs. Remaining MWC Team Revenues/Expenses (2023)

Expenses: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/77d3fb30
Revenues: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/1ff869c1

(The final bar on each chart is MSU.) Looking like another ~$20M would be needed in the MSU athletics budget to get roughly on par with the remaining MWC competition. 2023 Institutional/Govt Support shows just over $17M combined (MSU $9.9+UM $7.14M). The State would have to be willing to double that funding, or it's a likely a non-starter.

Splitting a state of just over 1M people is the common talking point for why we're stuck in the FCS and may always be but I wonder what our actual, not just max possible, TV audiences are compared to the remaining teams in the MWC. How many people are physically watching Wyoming and New Mexico play every week (minus week 0 when they're the only game on in the entire country) and how does that compare to MSU and Missoula? I just have to assume the gap isn't that big.

[Cataholic]

This is nuts. UNLV and San Jose State are staying in the Mountain West. At least for now….

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/lists/ ... te-nevada/

[Cataholic]

Adding to the total disgust factor, the PAC 12 is trying to avoid paying the fee they agreed to their scheduling agreement with the Mountain West.

https://www.on3.com/news/mountain-west- ... penalties/

I have to question if the Pac 12 decision makers have any idea what they are doing. No wonder the conference fell apart.

[Montanabob]

Adding to the total disgust factor, the PAC 12 is trying to avoid paying the fee they agreed to their scheduling agreement with the Mountain West.

https://www.on3.com/news/mountain-west- ... penalties/

I have to question if the Pac 12 decision makers have any idea what they are doing. No wonder the conference fell apart.

their argument was the scheduling contract amounted to extortion.

[BelgradeBobcat]

[BelgradeBobcat]

So...the MWC and the Pac-? each need one more school? Who's it gonna be?

[coloradocat]

So...the MWC and the Pac-? each need one more school? Who's it gonna be?

They might technically only need one more school each but for TV contract purposes I think they both need to get to 10. No real network is paying any remotely significant amount of money for an 8 team west coast conference.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

my thoughts.........

MSU should stay FCS. There is a great following and we travel well to road games. Going FBS isn't really all that great because the most you can do is go to a bowl, and we get roughly the same money from being dominant in the FCS. We barely beat one of the worst teams in the FBS, so going to the FBS full time means we probably are losing a lot of close games. We won't get recruits that way, trust me hs kids aren't going to Montana and that cold to lose most your games. The MWC doesn't have a huge pay out, there aren't a lot of bowl tie ins for them and you will now be recruiting against all the other FBS schools. It is far better to be big fish in a small pond in this scenario because the money pay out won't add up in the end. The facility upgrades you will have to make just to compete with other schools will zero out the money you have coming in. MSU has a great deal going right now, we are a powerhouse FCS school that every single year has a chance to win a natty, be happy with that.

Look at sam houston....I'm from texas no body cares about sam houston. They beat rice, big whoopty doo. They aren't competing for anything of note and won't ever compete for anything of note. If you don't about shsu they are in huntsville texas(they have a max security prison in the city). It's about an hr north of houston and is a suitcase college. They have good years and bad years...had one really great year and won a natty. Went FBS get their teeth kicked in most days and beat other lowly FBS teams. They will never be in the college play off too many schools in the state of texas they are recruiting against.....ut, baylor, smu, txtech, rice, north texas, a&m, U of H, UTEP...not to mention the fcs schools HCU, ACU, Lamar, SFU, tarleton st, UTRGV. Montana doesn't even remotely the amount of talent in the state tha texas does so now you are looking to convince out of staters to come to a really cold state to play. Now you are competing with Boise st, utah, utah st, wyo, wash, wsu, oregon, osu for FBS level talent, it just doesn't make sense. MSU should not consider FBS unless they are going to a P4/P5 conf which I doubt we get an invite to. Only reason we jump is to get a big pay out every year, but at what cost? To take a historically great program and become avg at best probably below avg and just play games to play games with not real end goal....maybe a bowl every 5-7 yrs. I see popularity falling and it being a terrible move.

Stay where we are dominate. Be a power on our level. Put kids in the pros. Reap the benefits. In texas hs we have our divisions...6A D1 being the highest. There is a team called aledo that is 5A d2 that kills every year. I think they have like 10 titles in the last 9yrs. They could move up but they make sure to stay on their level. They put kids in college, win every year and the city stays happy. They get a lot of flack from the state because they don't hardly ever play up but they know who they are. We should do the same...know who we are and be happy with it.

just the musing of a new found bobcat fan.......

[BleedingBLue]

So...the MWC and the Pac-? each need one more school? Who's it gonna be?

They might technically only need one more school each but for TV contract purposes I think they both need to get to 10. No real network is paying any remotely significant amount of money for an 8 team west coast conference.

ESPN, CBS and Fox still so they can fill the 10 eastern slot on Saturday, and have 2 conferences regularly willing to play Fridays.

[catscat]

my thoughts.........

MSU should stay FCS. There is a great following and we travel well to road games. Going FBS isn't really all that great because the most you can do is go to a bowl, and we get roughly the same money from being dominant in the FCS. We barely beat one of the worst teams in the FBS, so going to the FBS full time means we probably are losing a lot of close games. We won't get recruits that way, trust me hs kids aren't going to Montana and that cold to lose most your games. The MWC doesn't have a huge pay out, there aren't a lot of bowl tie ins for them and you will now be recruiting against all the other FBS schools. It is far better to be big fish in a small pond in this scenario because the money pay out won't add up in the end. The facility upgrades you will have to make just to compete with other schools will zero out the money you have coming in. MSU has a great deal going right now, we are a powerhouse FCS school that every single year has a chance to win a natty, be happy with that.

Look at sam houston....I'm from texas no body cares about sam houston. They beat rice, big whoopty doo. They aren't competing for anything of note and won't ever compete for anything of note. If you don't about shsu they are in huntsville texas(they have a max security prison in the city). It's about an hr north of houston and is a suitcase college. They have good years and bad years...had one really great year and won a natty. Went FBS get their teeth kicked in most days and beat other lowly FBS teams. They will never be in the college play off too many schools in the state of texas they are recruiting against.....ut, baylor, smu, txtech, rice, north texas, a&m, U of H, UTEP...not to mention the fcs schools HCU, ACU, Lamar, SFU, tarleton st, UTRGV. Montana doesn't even remotely the amount of talent in the state tha texas does so now you are looking to convince out of staters to come to a really cold state to play. Now you are competing with Boise st, utah, utah st, wyo, wash, wsu, oregon, osu for FBS level talent, it just doesn't make sense. MSU should not consider FBS unless they are going to a P4/P5 conf which I doubt we get an invite to. Only reason we jump is to get a big pay out every year, but at what cost? To take a historically great program and become avg at best probably below avg and just play games to play games with not real end goal....maybe a bowl every 5-7 yrs. I see popularity falling and it being a terrible move.

Stay where we are dominate. Be a power on our level. Put kids in the pros. Reap the benefits. In texas hs we have our divisions...6A D1 being the highest. There is a team called aledo that is 5A d2 that kills every year. I think they have like 10 titles in the last 9yrs. They could move up but they make sure to stay on their level. They put kids in college, win every year and the city stays happy. They get a lot of flack from the state because they don't hardly ever play up but they know who they are. We should do the same...know who we are and be happy with it.

just the musing of a new found bobcat fan.......

Exactly!!

[Catprint]

Rules are hard to follow but...
1) For NCAA post-season basketball, a conference has to have 7 core institutions.
2) For Football, the magic number seems to be 8.
3) So the MWC needs only one full-time BB and FB member.

However, as others have pointed out, 8 members makes scheduling difficult and also would make the MWC the smallest FBS conference except for the PeeWee-12 which is also struggling to make grade.

News was very quiet on 25 September except the late breaking news that UNLV and Air Force will stay in the Mountain West as reported and some shadow boxing on the Pac-12 lawsuit. I would say it is at least probable that the MWC will counter sue.

As far as the 8th member for each conference.....
Pac-12 - 1) could still be UNLV; 2) could be another MWC school; 3) could be a Conf-USA school. But it won't be an FCS school. Not a 1% chance

MWC - 1) Could be New Mexico State; 2) Could be Utep; 3) Could be some other dredged up team from C-USA or AAC, 4) Could But i think it is highly unlikely they will go after FCS elite - MSU, UM, NDSU, SDSU.....

Also, Sac State has an entire feasibility study on moving up to FBS and have a full committee pushing it and making lots of noise - even to join the Pac-12! Maybe so, large market but "The Nest" is the worst college basketball stadium in the US, most high schools have a better gym. But this points to you don't have to wait for an invite. Your school and its boosters can probe, politic, pressure, etc to be in the conversation. Seems like a leap but maybe for the 8th school, the MWC takes Sac State rather than retreads like New Mexico State. Just a thought.

[MSU01]

Rules are hard to follow but...
1) For NCAA post-season basketball, a conference has to have 7 core institutions.
2) For Football, the magic number seems to be 8.
3) So the MWC needs only one full-time BB and FB member.

However, as others have pointed out, 8 members makes scheduling difficult and also would make the MWC the smallest FBS conference except for the PeeWee-12 which is also struggling to make grade.

News was very quiet on 25 September except the late breaking news that UNLV and Air Force will stay in the Mountain West as reported and some shadow boxing on the Pac-12 lawsuit. I would say it is at least probable that the MWC will counter sue.

As far as the 8th member for each conference.....
Pac-12 - 1) could still be UNLV; 2) could be another MWC school; 3) could be a Conf-USA school. But it won't be an FCS school. Not a 1% chance

MWC - 1) Could be New Mexico State; 2) Could be Utep; 3) Could be some other dredged up team from C-USA or AAC, 4) Could But i think it is highly unlikely they will go after FCS elite - MSU, UM, NDSU, SDSU.....

Also, Sac State has an entire feasibility study on moving up to FBS and have a full committee pushing it and making lots of noise - even to join the Pac-12! Maybe so, large market but "The Nest" is the worst college basketball stadium in the US, most high schools have a better gym. But this points to you don't have to wait for an invite. Your school and its boosters can probe, politic, pressure, etc to be in the conversation. Seems like a leap but maybe for the 8th school, the MWC takes Sac State rather than retreads like New Mexico State. Just a thought.

The article I read on Sac State says that the group pushing them to join the Pac-12 wants a new $300 million football stadium and a new $250 million basketball arena. They do have a rather impressive list of donors, but that seems like a LOT of money to raise in a relatively short time. I'm guessing that the MWC and Pac-12 will each find one or two FBS programs to join them just to reach the minimum for now, then explore additional expansion options down the road which (for the MWC) may include current FCS programs. Non-football schools with good basketball programs like Gonzaga, Grand Canyon, or Utah Valley will be interesting to watch as well.

[Cats92]

General curiosity here. How does the YC react if MSU moves to fbs? Is there more interest from the money bags up there? I’d also be interested to see how well MSU has done donor wise with the “partnership” they have with the club so far. If anyone has information on that, please share!