Quarters

[PapaG]

Agreed! I'm actually pulling for Idaho right now. I want to see the Big Sky represent. I have no patience for whiny ass Cat fans...you lost, get over it, support the Big Sky and move the F%$K along....and just fyi, I have no patience for whiny ass Griz fans under the same scenario.

Apparently you can’t just move forward since you’re still posting on the MSU board a week after their season ended. I hope NDSU throttles you solely because of WalMart fans like you, but I will say it’s nice the Gris finally held up their end with Montana schools now being represented 4 years in a row in the semifinals.

First semis since 2009? I don’t count the cheating season.

[BFcatfan]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

[RickRund]

Massey has SDSU dropping the hammer on UAlb 34-10 and NDSU slipping by the gris 30-27...

[TomCat88]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

The stars don’t align often for good teams. I think there were three 100-win teams in MLB this year and all three lost out in their first playoff series. The best teams often lose out in the playoffs or sometimes don’t make the playoffs. A lot of the time average teams get hot at the right time and win it all. Just the way it goes.

[RickRund]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

The stars don’t align often for good teams. I think there were three 100-win teams in MLB this year and all three lost out in their first playoff series. The best teams often lose out in the playoffs or sometimes don’t make the playoffs. A lot of the time average teams get hot at the right time and win it all. Just the way it goes.

And now the dodgers better not go out 3-0 next year.

[TomCat88]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

The stars don’t align often for good teams. I think there were three 100-win teams in MLB this year and all three lost out in their first playoff series. The best teams often lose out in the playoffs or sometimes don’t make the playoffs. A lot of the time average teams get hot at the right time and win it all. Just the way it goes.

And now the dodgers better not go out 3-0 next year.

No kidding!!!

[John K]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

The stars don’t align often for good teams. I think there were three 100-win teams in MLB this year and all three lost out in their first playoff series. The best teams often lose out in the playoffs or sometimes don’t make the playoffs. A lot of the time average teams get hot at the right time and win it all. Just the way it goes.

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm a Boston Bruins fan and after setting the NHL record for regular season points and wins last season, they got upset by Florida in the 1st round of the playoffs. I'm also a Braves fan and they won 100 plus games each of the last two seasons, and then got upset in their first playoff series both years by the Phillies. In 2021, they only won 88 games, and had the worst record of any of the 12 playoff teams, but went on to win the World Series that year. Sports can be very unpredictable sometimes, which can make it agonizing at times, but exhilarating at other times.

[TomCat88]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

The stars don’t align often for good teams. I think there were three 100-win teams in MLB this year and all three lost out in their first playoff series. The best teams often lose out in the playoffs or sometimes don’t make the playoffs. A lot of the time average teams get hot at the right time and win it all. Just the way it goes.

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm a Boston Bruins fan and after setting the NHL record for regular season points and wins last season, they got upset by Florida in the 1st round of the playoffs. I'm also a Braves fan and they won 100 plus games each of the last two seasons, and then got upset in their first playoff series both years by the Phillies. In 2021, they only won 88 games, and had the worst record of any of the 12 playoff teams, but went on to win the World Series that year. Sports can be very unpredictable sometimes, which can make it agonizing at times, but exhilarating at other times.

I think every sports fan has examples like that. They put so many teams in the playoffs that, oddly, it’s tough for even the best teams to win them.

I don’t think any of the teams left are close to as good as SDSU but any one of them could win the championship. I’m not sure I’ll think any one of those teams is better than SDSU if they do beat them. It’s kind of a weird situation.

[Griznationalist]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

Just as good or better than the four teams that beat you?

[TomCat88]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

Just as good or better than the four teams that beat you?

I don't think it's such a hard concept to wrap your head around. Do you think that NAU is better than UM? I sure don't and didn't at the time they lost and I bet you felt the same way. A lot of Griz fans and ex-players I know threw in the towel after that loss and some thought that UM would go 5-6. Do you think, for example, the Texas Rangers are better than the LA Dodgers or Atlanta Braves because they won the World Series? If you I gave you $100 to put on a team to win the World Series, would you just automatically put it on the Rangers because they won the World Series and must then be the best team in baseball. Texas led the West all year then stumbled down the stretch and barely made the playoffs.

Who wins a championship is black and white. Who the better team is, isn't. You can still have the opinion that the Chiefs are better than the Bills despite the fact that they lost to them yesterday. A lot of people don't think Alabama is better than Georgia. The examples are endless.

The recent example of NDSU vs USD should be a good example of this. NDSU actually lost in a similar fashion as MSU lost to Idaho. Got off to really bad start and didn't have enough left in the tank to finish a comeback. NDSU actually lost a lot worse than MSU did, but they still had the ability to just crush USD on the road Saturday.

Seasonally, UM was the top pick in the BSC last year only to get upset at home by Idaho, then due to an injured QB and a bad call lost winnable games at SAC and at Weber. UM could've easily been 10-0 coming into Cat-Griz. UM was so down that it barely survived SEMO. That game shouldn't have been close. Had UM played SAC and Weber at home it probably wins those games, so it could've also easily been 9-1 coming into Cat-Griz.

At the end of the day UM last year and MSU this year just didn't do enough in those games to get wins. Most of that was self-inflicted or bad luck, however, it may not have mattered for MSU against UM and vice versa the year before, but it probably did against the others. That's just the way it goes though and MSU and UM aren't the first teams to suffer that fate.

[91catAlum]

I'm having a tough time rooting for Idaho as well, should support the Big Sky but I don't like seeing them advance either. That's a team I feel we would have beaten 9 out of 10 times.

I always root for BSC teams, except for the gris of course, but I'm especially in Idaho's corner tonight, because I want to be able to say that all 4 of our losses were to the 4 semi-finalists. I'll bet that's never happened before, and considering the fact that we easily could have won, in fact probably should have won, 3 of the 4, that makes our premature playoff exit a bit easier to swallow for me. I think that pretty much refutes what some Bobcat fans have been saying, i.e. that we really weren't nearly as good as we thought we were this season. We'd be 0-4 against the 4 best teams in the nation, and been painfully close to beating 3 of them. That tells me we were pretty damn good, but unfortunately found some infuriating ways to lose those games. Missed kicks against UI and NDSU, false start penalties on 1st and goal plays and the questionable call that took away a TD at the end of the SDSU game, some questionable play calling in all those games. In a way, I'm not sure if thinking about it in those terms makes me feel better or worse, but it does make me feel confident that if just a few of those things had gone the other way, we could easily be one of the final four again this year, and that we deserve to be considered one of the top 5 teams in the nation, despite losing out in the round of 16.

Idaho doesn’t have to win for me to feel the same
concept. Quarter finals did it for me. I’m pretty damn sure we were everything we thought we were. Sometimes the stars just need to align. By that I mean clean up some things, starting with a OC change and place kicking game so on and so forth and we are playing next weekend. We are just as good or better than SDSU, NDSU, Idaho and dUMb..

Just as good or better than the four teams that beat you?

I don't think it's such a hard concept to wrap your head around. Do you think that NAU is better than UM? I sure don't and didn't at the time they lost and I bet you felt the same way. A lot of Griz fans and ex-players I know threw in the towel after that loss and some thought that UM would go 5-6. Do you think, for example, the Texas Rangers are better than the LA Dodgers or Atlanta Braves because they won the World Series? If you I gave you $100 to put on a team to win the World Series, would you just automatically put it on the Rangers because they won the World Series and must then be the best team in baseball. Texas led the West all year then stumbled down the stretch and barely made the playoffs.

Who wins a championship is black and white. Who the better team is, isn't. You can still have the opinion that the Chiefs are better than the Bills despite the fact that they lost to them yesterday. A lot of people don't think Alabama is better than Georgia. The examples are endless.

The recent example of NDSU vs USD should be a good example of this. NDSU actually lost in a similar fashion as MSU lost to Idaho. Got off to really bad start and didn't have enough left in the tank to finish a comeback. NDSU actually lost a lot worse than MSU did, but they still had the ability to just crush USD on the road Saturday.

Seasonally, UM was the top pick in the BSC last year only to get upset at home by Idaho, then due to an injured QB and a bad call lost winnable games at SAC and at Weber. UM could've easily been 10-0 coming into Cat-Griz. UM was so down that it barely survived SEMO. That game shouldn't have been close. Had UM played SAC and Weber at home it probably wins those games, so it could've also easily been 9-1 coming into Cat-Griz.

At the end of the day UM last year and MSU this year just didn't do enough in those games to get wins. Most of that was self-inflicted or bad luck, however, it may not have mattered for MSU against UM and vice versa the year before, but it probably did against the others. That's just the way it goes though and MSU and UM aren't the first teams to suffer that fate.

Well said, Tom! Good explanation.

[HelenaCat]

Excellent post and explanation. Not sure grisnationalist will understand any of it though. Just sayin....

[Griznationalist]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

[TomCat88]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

I guess in theory that could be true, but not quite the same thing as saying teams like UM and MSU that lose a bunch of games narrowly. If MSU had barely won games against 5-6 teams and gotten blown out in all four losses, people probably wouldn't have this kind of opinion. I know a lot of UM ex-players and fans saying that they could've easily been 10-0 rolling into Cat-Griz last year. Maybe you weren't one of them. There are a lot of Cat fans that, like yourself, consider 8-4 to be 8-4 regardless of how the games played out. Do you think UM wasn't as good as SAC, Weber and Idaho last year? If so, that's your opinion and I don't have a problem with it, but I think UM was better than those teams just had some bad luck with injuries and being on the road or just had a bad day.

[Griznationalist]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

I guess in theory that could be true, but not quite the same thing as saying teams like UM and MSU that lose a bunch of games narrowly. If MSU had barely won games against 5-6 teams and gotten blown out in all four losses, people probably wouldn't have this kind of opinion. I know a lot of UM ex-players and fans saying that they could've easily been 10-0 rolling into Cat-Griz last year. Maybe you weren't one of them. There are a lot of Cat fans that, like yourself, consider 8-4 to be 8-4 regardless of how the games played out. Do you think UM wasn't as good as SAC, Weber and Idaho last year? If so, that's your opinion and I don't have a problem with it, but I think UM was better than those teams just had some bad luck with injuries and being on the road or just had a bad day.

I thought if UM lost to SAC, Weber and Idaho, the Griz had to be worse than at least some of those teams. Worse than MSU, too. I’ve never understood the argument that the better team consistently loses games but is better because the losses are “self-inflicted.” The Bobcat radio announcer said during the NDSU game that there were some “uncharacteristic” Bobcat stumbles in that game that were “reminiscent” of the SDSU game, the Idaho game, and the UM game. He was basically talking about a pattern, which usually means characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. How can the better team consistently self-inflict losses upon itself? How is that the better team?

[kennethnoisewater]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

I guess in theory that could be true, but not quite the same thing as saying teams like UM and MSU that lose a bunch of games narrowly. If MSU had barely won games against 5-6 teams and gotten blown out in all four losses, people probably wouldn't have this kind of opinion. I know a lot of UM ex-players and fans saying that they could've easily been 10-0 rolling into Cat-Griz last year. Maybe you weren't one of them. There are a lot of Cat fans that, like yourself, consider 8-4 to be 8-4 regardless of how the games played out. Do you think UM wasn't as good as SAC, Weber and Idaho last year? If so, that's your opinion and I don't have a problem with it, but I think UM was better than those teams just had some bad luck with injuries and being on the road or just had a bad day.

I thought if UM lost to SAC, Weber and Idaho, the Griz had to be worse than at least some of those teams. Worse than MSU, too. I’ve never understood the argument that the better team consistently loses games but is better because the losses are “self-inflicted.” The Bobcat radio announcer said during the NDSU game that there were some “uncharacteristic” Bobcat stumbles in that game that were “reminiscent” of the SDSU game, the Idaho game, and the UM game. He was basically talking about a pattern, which usually means characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. How can the better team consistently self-inflict losses upon itself? How is that the better team?

To be fair, the OP did basically say this team is as good as everybody else IF some things happen or happened. In three of those losses you could have made a pretty good argument that MSU was the better team but needed to fix one or two things. And you're right, if it happens enough times, it's characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. Overall I don't disagree with you. Good teams have to find ways to win those close games and not lay an egg in a rivalry game where ON PAPER, there isn't much of a talent gap, if there is one at all. If I'm not misunderstanding the post you were first replying to, he's basically saying this team but cleaning up some mistakes, maybe making a change at OC, and getting a new kicker. Despite a blowout loss and three close ones, I don't think an honest person would say there's a wide gap between the Cats and the four teams that beat them.

[Griznationalist]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

I guess in theory that could be true, but not quite the same thing as saying teams like UM and MSU that lose a bunch of games narrowly. If MSU had barely won games against 5-6 teams and gotten blown out in all four losses, people probably wouldn't have this kind of opinion. I know a lot of UM ex-players and fans saying that they could've easily been 10-0 rolling into Cat-Griz last year. Maybe you weren't one of them. There are a lot of Cat fans that, like yourself, consider 8-4 to be 8-4 regardless of how the games played out. Do you think UM wasn't as good as SAC, Weber and Idaho last year? If so, that's your opinion and I don't have a problem with it, but I think UM was better than those teams just had some bad luck with injuries and being on the road or just had a bad day.

I thought if UM lost to SAC, Weber and Idaho, the Griz had to be worse than at least some of those teams. Worse than MSU, too. I’ve never understood the argument that the better team consistently loses games but is better because the losses are “self-inflicted.” The Bobcat radio announcer said during the NDSU game that there were some “uncharacteristic” Bobcat stumbles in that game that were “reminiscent” of the SDSU game, the Idaho game, and the UM game. He was basically talking about a pattern, which usually means characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. How can the better team consistently self-inflict losses upon itself? How is that the better team?

To be fair, the OP did basically say this team is as good as everybody else IF some things happen or happened. In three of those losses you could have made a pretty good argument that MSU was the better team but needed to fix one or two things. And you're right, if it happens enough times, it's characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. Overall I don't disagree with you. Good teams have to find ways to win those close games and not lay an egg in a rivalry game where ON PAPER, there isn't much of a talent gap, if there is one at all. If I'm not misunderstanding the post you were first replying to, he's basically saying this team but cleaning up some mistakes, maybe making a change at OC, and getting a new kicker. Despite a blowout loss and three close ones, I don't think an honest person would say there's a wide gap between the Cats and the four teams that beat them.

I agree that the gap is not wide. But there IS a gap proven by the head-to-head competition and the overall record. I was remarking on the comment by the guy who said “we are just as good or BETTER” than the four teams that beat us. I just think that’s a stretch.

[kennethnoisewater]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

I guess in theory that could be true, but not quite the same thing as saying teams like UM and MSU that lose a bunch of games narrowly. If MSU had barely won games against 5-6 teams and gotten blown out in all four losses, people probably wouldn't have this kind of opinion. I know a lot of UM ex-players and fans saying that they could've easily been 10-0 rolling into Cat-Griz last year. Maybe you weren't one of them. There are a lot of Cat fans that, like yourself, consider 8-4 to be 8-4 regardless of how the games played out. Do you think UM wasn't as good as SAC, Weber and Idaho last year? If so, that's your opinion and I don't have a problem with it, but I think UM was better than those teams just had some bad luck with injuries and being on the road or just had a bad day.

I thought if UM lost to SAC, Weber and Idaho, the Griz had to be worse than at least some of those teams. Worse than MSU, too. I’ve never understood the argument that the better team consistently loses games but is better because the losses are “self-inflicted.” The Bobcat radio announcer said during the NDSU game that there were some “uncharacteristic” Bobcat stumbles in that game that were “reminiscent” of the SDSU game, the Idaho game, and the UM game. He was basically talking about a pattern, which usually means characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. How can the better team consistently self-inflict losses upon itself? How is that the better team?

To be fair, the OP did basically say this team is as good as everybody else IF some things happen or happened. In three of those losses you could have made a pretty good argument that MSU was the better team but needed to fix one or two things. And you're right, if it happens enough times, it's characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. Overall I don't disagree with you. Good teams have to find ways to win those close games and not lay an egg in a rivalry game where ON PAPER, there isn't much of a talent gap, if there is one at all. If I'm not misunderstanding the post you were first replying to, he's basically saying this team but cleaning up some mistakes, maybe making a change at OC, and getting a new kicker. Despite a blowout loss and three close ones, I don't think an honest person would say there's a wide gap between the Cats and the four teams that beat them.

I agree that the gap is not wide. But there IS a gap proven by the head-to-head competition and the overall record. I was remarking on the comment by the guy who said “we are just as good or BETTER” than the four teams that beat us. I just think that’s a stretch.

I don't think we're far off here, and I'm probably just being nitpicky, but my take was that he said IF you make a few fairly minor changes, THEN the Bobcats are better than the four teams. So presumably if you don't, then they're not. Even that is up for debate, obviously, and I won't argue with you if you say they're not even after some changes. Obviously ifs and buts don't count.

[grizatwork]

Generally you are not as bad as your worse lost and not as good as your best win.

Personally. I have trepidation every week that the Griz team that went to Flagstaff will show up.

Conversely. The NDSU team I saw this weekend looks like the NDSU juggernaut of the past decade.

[tetoncat]

It’s an interesting theory. A winless team could be the best team in the nation, by this theory. Is this the first 4-loss team to be better than the four teams that beat it, or have there been others (in either the FCS or FBS)?

I guess in theory that could be true, but not quite the same thing as saying teams like UM and MSU that lose a bunch of games narrowly. If MSU had barely won games against 5-6 teams and gotten blown out in all four losses, people probably wouldn't have this kind of opinion. I know a lot of UM ex-players and fans saying that they could've easily been 10-0 rolling into Cat-Griz last year. Maybe you weren't one of them. There are a lot of Cat fans that, like yourself, consider 8-4 to be 8-4 regardless of how the games played out. Do you think UM wasn't as good as SAC, Weber and Idaho last year? If so, that's your opinion and I don't have a problem with it, but I think UM was better than those teams just had some bad luck with injuries and being on the road or just had a bad day.

I thought if UM lost to SAC, Weber and Idaho, the Griz had to be worse than at least some of those teams. Worse than MSU, too. I’ve never understood the argument that the better team consistently loses games but is better because the losses are “self-inflicted.” The Bobcat radio announcer said during the NDSU game that there were some “uncharacteristic” Bobcat stumbles in that game that were “reminiscent” of the SDSU game, the Idaho game, and the UM game. He was basically talking about a pattern, which usually means characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. How can the better team consistently self-inflict losses upon itself? How is that the better team?

To be fair, the OP did basically say this team is as good as everybody else IF some things happen or happened. In three of those losses you could have made a pretty good argument that MSU was the better team but needed to fix one or two things. And you're right, if it happens enough times, it's characteristic rather than uncharacteristic. Overall I don't disagree with you. Good teams have to find ways to win those close games and not lay an egg in a rivalry game where ON PAPER, there isn't much of a talent gap, if there is one at all. If I'm not misunderstanding the post you were first replying to, he's basically saying this team but cleaning up some mistakes, maybe making a change at OC, and getting a new kicker. Despite a blowout loss and three close ones, I don't think an honest person would say there's a wide gap between the Cats and the four teams that beat them.

I agree that the gap is not wide. But there IS a gap proven by the head-to-head competition and the overall record. I was remarking on the comment by the guy who said “we are just as good or BETTER” than the four teams that beat us. I just think that’s a stretch.

It's not. If you don't think Cats are at least just as good as the 3 teams that narrowly beat them not sure you have paid much attention to sports. Tom gave you examples. Sports and momentum are funny. Get some breaks early and a lead some games vs even teams turn into blowouts. Play poorly on road and get behind its a big task to catch up. Play even home team sometimes wills a way to win. Make crucial mistakes hard to win.

Bills are not better than Chiefs, but a WR being lazy and lining up offsides cost them lead and maybe the game. Those things happen in sports.