Covid hits MSU athletes

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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by LCH » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:02 pm

Hey rivercat I also have a BS in Micro from MSU. When did you graduate?



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by rivercat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:41 pm

My point is that the hand wringing about schools opening and sports being cancelled is a gross over reaction. There, I said it. Sports should not be cancelled. My point is that we should be socially responsible and go about our business as usual. My point is we should focus efforts on protecting the vulnerable.

Here's an interesting exercise for you Tom. Consider the population in Montana that may, in even the slightest possibility, have encountered a grizzly bear this year. Hikers, campers, fishers, residents of the Rocky Mountain front, etc. Now count the number of attacks this year. Do the math and you'll see that said population is way more likely to get chewed on than to die of Covid. There's some risk analysis perspective.


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by rivercat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:44 pm

LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:02 pm
Hey rivercat I also have a BS in Micro from MSU. When did you graduate?
Long time ago, 1988. I worked on an Env Engineering master's in the 90's until work and life got in the way.


"...get in 21 personnel and pound people and take their souls and have fun doing that..." coach Choate

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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by LCH » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:45 pm

You're a youngster, me 1979. Worked in clinical labs for my life.



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by Cataholic » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm

rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:04 am

rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:41 pm
My point is that the hand wringing about schools opening and sports being cancelled is a gross over reaction. There, I said it. Sports should not be cancelled. My point is that we should be socially responsible and go about our business as usual. My point is we should focus efforts on protecting the vulnerable.

Here's an interesting exercise for you Tom. Consider the population in Montana that may, in even the slightest possibility, have encountered a grizzly bear this year. Hikers, campers, fishers, residents of the Rocky Mountain front, etc. Now count the number of attacks this year. Do the math and you'll see that said population is way more likely to get chewed on than to die of Covid. There's some risk analysis perspective.
This won’t get you anywhere here. But I’ll be fascinated to sit back and watch!!



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:55 am

rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:41 pm
My point is that the hand wringing about schools opening and sports being cancelled is a gross over reaction. There, I said it. Sports should not be cancelled. My point is that we should be socially responsible and go about our business as usual. My point is we should focus efforts on protecting the vulnerable.

Here's an interesting exercise for you Tom. Consider the population in Montana that may, in even the slightest possibility, have encountered a grizzly bear this year. Hikers, campers, fishers, residents of the Rocky Mountain front, etc. Now count the number of attacks this year. Do the math and you'll see that said population is way more likely to get chewed on than to die of Covid. There's some risk analysis perspective.
That’s exactly what is happening in Montana. Sports are not being cancelled. I already agreed with you that death for the vast majority of Americans is very rare. I think almost everyone agrees with that.

I think if death was the only factor, then this would be less of an issue.


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by rivercat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.
Thanks for the article. I'll wager we see that percentage go even higher. The article cites Montana as having 3 nursing home related deaths when there are more 20 deaths between the two facilities in Shelby and Billings alone.


"...get in 21 personnel and pound people and take their souls and have fun doing that..." coach Choate

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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:17 am

rivercat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.
Thanks for the article. I'll wager we see that percentage go even higher. The article cites Montana as having 3 nursing home related deaths when there are more 20 deaths between the two facilities in Shelby and Billings alone.
I’ve yet to see an argument stating most deaths aren’t in nursing homes (age related). I’ve seen an argument that old person deaths aren’t as significant as young deaths, but didn’t see anyone argue that.


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by catsrback76 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:31 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:17 am
rivercat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.
Thanks for the article. I'll wager we see that percentage go even higher. The article cites Montana as having 3 nursing home related deaths when there are more 20 deaths between the two facilities in Shelby and Billings alone.
I’ve yet to see an argument stating most deaths aren’t in nursing homes (age related). I’ve seen an argument that old person deaths aren’t as significant as young deaths, but didn’t see anyone argue that.
Well, I've heard that not all death are created equal. As someone who has held the hands of both young and old at deaths door, I didn't really see a difference. :coffee:



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by onceacat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:48 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:17 am
rivercat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.
Thanks for the article. I'll wager we see that percentage go even higher. The article cites Montana as having 3 nursing home related deaths when there are more 20 deaths between the two facilities in Shelby and Billings alone.
I’ve yet to see an argument stating most deaths aren’t in nursing homes (age related). I’ve seen an argument that old person deaths aren’t as significant as young deaths, but didn’t see anyone argue that.
To read some of the posts, there are only 2 outcome: death or nothing.

Obviously, that’s not true. If 40% of deaths come in nursing homes, that means 60% don’t. Which is still a lot of needless deaths if we don’t take common sense precautions.

And, of course, there are a whole range of results between asymptomatic and dead, including hospitalization, long term lung damage, lost wages, etc.

Not to mention the whole twisted mindset behind “nursing home deaths don’t REALLY count”. Imagine carrying that logic to its conclusion.



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by Joe Bobcat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:04 pm

catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:31 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:17 am
rivercat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.
Thanks for the article. I'll wager we see that percentage go even higher. The article cites Montana as having 3 nursing home related deaths when there are more 20 deaths between the two facilities in Shelby and Billings alone.
I’ve yet to see an argument stating most deaths aren’t in nursing homes (age related). I’ve seen an argument that old person deaths aren’t as significant as young deaths, but didn’t see anyone argue that.
Well, I've heard that not all death are created equal. As someone who has held the hands of both young and old at deaths door, I didn't really see a difference. :coffee:
I may be misunderstanding what you're trying to say but I would say that while all who die, whether young or old, are equally dead, that falls far short of telling and showing the whole big picture. Maybe at deaths door you didn't see it but the inequity of lost life days and experiences between an 80 year old and an infant dying are staggering and clear as can be.


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by Helcat72 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:18 pm

You can all argue statistics.....until you are infected....then it hits home. So relax.....chances are good that you won't be. Going into crowded places without a mask and not washing after is like walking g a tightrope....be careful, if you fall you're dead...if you're old.


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by The Butcher » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:22 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:55 am
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:41 pm
My point is that the hand wringing about schools opening and sports being cancelled is a gross over reaction. There, I said it. Sports should not be cancelled. My point is that we should be socially responsible and go about our business as usual. My point is we should focus efforts on protecting the vulnerable.

Here's an interesting exercise for you Tom. Consider the population in Montana that may, in even the slightest possibility, have encountered a grizzly bear this year. Hikers, campers, fishers, residents of the Rocky Mountain front, etc. Now count the number of attacks this year. Do the math and you'll see that said population is way more likely to get chewed on than to die of Covid. There's some risk analysis perspective.
That’s exactly what is happening in Montana. Sports are not being cancelled. I already agreed with you that death for the vast majority of Americans is very rare. I think almost everyone agrees with that.

I think if death was the only factor, then this would be less of an issue.
The long term effects of the virus are often overlooked too. There are legitimate concerns about permanent damage to the lungs and heart. Also, could the virus pop up later in life like shingles?



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:38 pm

Here's some good news: Fauci says school and colleges can reopen.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/health/u ... index.html


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:19 pm

Cases (steadily) and deaths (slightly) are dropping.


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by CelticCat » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:12 pm

NCAA Board of Governors kick the can down the road, at least one more day. Big Sky won't make any decisions until they do.



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by PHAT CAT » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:26 pm

The majority of Idaho players, don't want to play the season. So they're out.



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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by BigBruceBaker » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:43 pm

PHAT CAT wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:26 pm
The majority of Idaho players, don't want to play the season. So they're out.
Yeah but that's because they are tired of losing..... :-({|=


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Re: Covid hits MSU athletes

Post by Long Time Cat » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:48 pm

catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:31 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:17 am
rivercat wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:41 pm
rivercat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm
LCH wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:21 pm
So far in the US we have run 59,065,600 tests. Of these, 4,747,018 or 8% have been positive, this includes asymptomatic cases. Of the 4,747,018 positive cases 157,394 have died, or 3.3%. If you project this rate of positive tests and rate of death out over the 330,000,000 or so Americans you come up with about 871,200 deaths. These are the actual numbers, if you are OK with that fine. No one has to be afraid of the virus but if you don't respect it and it is too much of an imposition to wear a mask and social distance I don't know what to say.
The problem with your statistics is the testing is not random. It is concentrated on symptomatic individuals and people identified as close contacts of infected individuals. It is therefore skewed higher.

It is becoming more and more published that the mortality rate is really between 0.5 to 1% and the vast majority of deaths are elderly or individuals with pre-morbity conditions. This population should be afraid of this virus. That is the whole point of my post. Protect them and everyone else should practice good hygiene and go about life. The economy doesn't need to shut down again, schools can open (elderly teachers may need to sit out), and, in my opinion, sports can proceed with fans. My parents, in their late 70's won't attend games for the first time in many years which is the responsible decision for them.
Nice posts Rivercat. Here is an article that states over 40% of Covid deaths in the US are nursing home related.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

You make a lot of sense, but political agendas will keep our country terrified from returning to normalcy until the election is over.
Thanks for the article. I'll wager we see that percentage go even higher. The article cites Montana as having 3 nursing home related deaths when there are more 20 deaths between the two facilities in Shelby and Billings alone.
I’ve yet to see an argument stating most deaths aren’t in nursing homes (age related). I’ve seen an argument that old person deaths aren’t as significant as young deaths, but didn’t see anyone argue that.
Well, I've heard that not all death are created equal. As someone who has held the hands of both young and old at deaths door, I didn't really see a difference. :coffee:
As someone who has lost both of my parents, a son and a granddaughter. I believe there is a huge difference.


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