Cost Of Attendance proposal

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77matcat
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by 77matcat » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:24 pm

99

Both men’s and women’s gymnastics have the floor routine.

Men and women do several of the same moves, like triple flips with 2.5 twists. Takes strength, agility and tons of time practicing I’m guessing.

My point is when men and women have been competitive at a sport for a long time they seem to have similar outcomes.

Don’t know, but guess one of the goals of T9 is just trying to let women catch up.

Also guessing the parents of young ladies that get a scholarship are happy about it.



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Hawks86
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Hawks86 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:38 pm



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LTown Cat
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by LTown Cat » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:46 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:21 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:15 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Sports scholarships, in total, pay for themselves over time.
Oh I'd love to hear this Tom. Explain away.
Why do I need to do that?
I'd like to hear also. Although initially I feel like you are partially right. Yes, the fball and bball schollies pay for themselves I suppose in terms of revenue generated and exposure for the university.

I can't think of any way that a tennis scholarship pays for itself over time.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by DBARNETT1953 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:55 am

Here is some good information on Title XI requirements:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/inc ... -questions

There is no requirement that equal amounts of money are spent on a male to female basis. They are looking more at equal opportunities than equal money spent. Also, they want those opportunities to reflect the institutions male to female ratio. I think MSU is about 52% male while UofM is about 58% female.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by iaafan » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:04 am

LTown Cat wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:46 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:21 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:15 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Sports scholarships, in total, pay for themselves over time.
Oh I'd love to hear this Tom. Explain away.
Why do I need to do that?
I'd like to hear also. Although initially I feel like you are partially right. Yes, the fball and bball schollies pay for themselves I suppose in terms of revenue generated and exposure for the university.

I can't think of any way that a tennis scholarship pays for itself over time.
Pretty sure he means total return of investment over time. The money put into the program due to that person being given a scholarship. You need to look at all the externalities. Many of these people become donors, their parents, children and grandchildren attend and become donors. Among other things.



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LTown Cat
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by LTown Cat » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:26 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:04 am
LTown Cat wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:46 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:21 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:15 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Sports scholarships, in total, pay for themselves over time.
Oh I'd love to hear this Tom. Explain away.
Why do I need to do that?
I'd like to hear also. Although initially I feel like you are partially right. Yes, the fball and bball schollies pay for themselves I suppose in terms of revenue generated and exposure for the university.

I can't think of any way that a tennis scholarship pays for itself over time.
Pretty sure he means total return of investment over time. The money put into the program due to that person being given a scholarship. You need to look at all the externalities. Many of these people become donors, their parents, children and grandchildren attend and become donors. Among other things.
ah, got it.



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utucats
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by utucats » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:47 am

77matcat wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:24 pm
99

Both men’s and women’s gymnastics have the floor routine.

Men and women do several of the same moves, like triple flips with 2.5 twists. Takes strength, agility and tons of time practicing I’m guessing.

My point is when men and women have been competitive at a sport for a long time they seem to have similar outcomes.

Don’t know, but guess one of the goals of T9 is just trying to let women catch up.

Also guessing the parents of young ladies that get a scholarship are happy about it.
Similar outcomes? Women’s college b-ball began in the late 1800s. Which outcome is similar? Certainly not the marketability of men’s vs women’s or the skill of the participants.


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by utucats » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:51 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:28 pm
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:09 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:21 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:43 am
I guess my main point is that fiscally, Title IX is an absolute disaster. It is one of a myriad of reasons for why college expenses, which directs to college prices, are so high.

Sports that don't make sense financially shouldn't have the option for scholarships. Make it a club sport.
Spending money to go watch a sporting event is also a fiscal disaster.
As long as you're not going over your entertainment budget, I don't see the harm in it.
Using the prevailing logic in this thread, any entertainment expense and maybe any expense that doesn’t turn a monetary profit is an inappropriate use of money.
My logic is simply that we shouldn’t have to govern athletic programs that operate in the red and programs that run in the black the same in the name of equality.

I think we should be able to over FCOA to our football program and exclude other programs where we can’t justify the added expense.


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Hawks86 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 am

utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:51 am

My logic is simply that we shouldn’t have to govern athletic programs that operate in the red and programs that run in the black the same in the name of equality.

I think we should be able to over FCOA to our football program and exclude other programs where we can’t justify the added expense.
Football runs in the black the same way all the other sports do.


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77matcat
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by 77matcat » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 pm

utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:47 am
77matcat wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:24 pm
99

Both men’s and women’s gymnastics have the floor routine.

Men and women do several of the same moves, like triple flips with 2.5 twists. Takes strength, agility and tons of time practicing I’m guessing.

My point is when men and women have been competitive at a sport for a long time they seem to have similar outcomes.

Don’t know, but guess one of the goals of T9 is just trying to let women catch up.

Also guessing the parents of young ladies that get a scholarship are happy about it.
Similar outcomes? Women’s college b-ball began in the late 1800s. Which outcome is similar? Certainly not the marketability of men’s vs women’s or the skill of the participants.
I don’t recall women’s BB in high school in the 70s. If you do where did you go up high school and when.

Even when it was started it wasn’t given much of a priority. Can you remember when they first allowed women to run the Boston Marathon??? They were afraid they couldn’t physically endure it.

Women are now university presidents.

Times change.

Although some folks have a difficult time with change.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by coloradocat » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:05 pm

I think we should go full equality and make all sports co-ed.



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utucats
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by utucats » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:03 pm

77matcat wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 pm
utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:47 am
77matcat wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:24 pm
99

Both men’s and women’s gymnastics have the floor routine.

Men and women do several of the same moves, like triple flips with 2.5 twists. Takes strength, agility and tons of time practicing I’m guessing.

My point is when men and women have been competitive at a sport for a long time they seem to have similar outcomes.

Don’t know, but guess one of the goals of T9 is just trying to let women catch up.

Also guessing the parents of young ladies that get a scholarship are happy about it.
Similar outcomes? Women’s college b-ball began in the late 1800s. Which outcome is similar? Certainly not the marketability of men’s vs women’s or the skill of the participants.
I don’t recall women’s BB in high school in the 70s. If you do where did you go up high school and when.

Even when it was started it wasn’t given much of a priority. Can you remember when they first allowed women to run the Boston Marathon??? They were afraid they couldn’t physically endure it.

Women are now university presidents.

Times change.

Although some folks have a difficult time with change.
“Women are now university presidents” :lol: exactly how much athletic ability does that job require?

Is it possible to be able to embrace reality and admit that while MSU’s President(woman) is vastly superior to me(man) at running a University, she would lose to 99% of men in a hundred yard dash, or arm wrestling, or a wrestling match or pretty much any other physical activity because women are genetically predisposed to be nurturers while men to be hunters, providers, physical laborers. This fact of life is the reason that when you watch each sex perform a physical activity in the form of sport the men’s competition is more fierce, physical, athletic and most the time that leads to being more entertaining, marketable and profitable.

Times may change but reality doesn’t.


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by utucats » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:11 pm

coloradocat wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:05 pm
I think we should go full equality and make all sports co-ed.
Phenomenal idea. For those that believe that we will have “similar outcomes”, I’m sure they’ll enjoy being able to watch Troy Andersen tackle females on Saturdays. I wonder if games will be longer due to injury timeouts 🤔. Probably not. I’m sure after a few years the girls will catch up and everything will be equal.

It will be awesome someday when we reach true equality and there is no difference between men and women!


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by AFCAT » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:17 pm

77matcat wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 pm
utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:47 am
77matcat wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:24 pm
99

Both men’s and women’s gymnastics have the floor routine.

Men and women do several of the same moves, like triple flips with 2.5 twists. Takes strength, agility and tons of time practicing I’m guessing.

My point is when men and women have been competitive at a sport for a long time they seem to have similar outcomes.

Don’t know, but guess one of the goals of T9 is just trying to let women catch up.

Also guessing the parents of young ladies that get a scholarship are happy about it.
Similar outcomes? Women’s college b-ball began in the late 1800s. Which outcome is similar? Certainly not the marketability of men’s vs women’s or the skill of the participants.
I don’t recall women’s BB in high school in the 70s. If you do where did you go up high school and when.

Even when it was started it wasn’t given much of a priority. Can you remember when they first allowed women to run the Boston Marathon??? They were afraid they couldn’t physically endure it.

Women are now university presidents.

Times change.

Although some folks have a difficult time with change.
Some Montana high schools have had women’s basketball since 1972. It took a few years before the sport spread to most high schools.


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by bobcat99 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:43 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 am
utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:51 am

My logic is simply that we shouldn’t have to govern athletic programs that operate in the red and programs that run in the black the same in the name of equality.

I think we should be able to over FCOA to our football program and exclude other programs where we can’t justify the added expense.
Football runs in the black the same way all the other sports do.
Not to the same extent.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Mtcatfan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:01 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:43 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 am
utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:51 am

My logic is simply that we shouldn’t have to govern athletic programs that operate in the red and programs that run in the black the same in the name of equality.

I think we should be able to over FCOA to our football program and exclude other programs where we can’t justify the added expense.
Football runs in the black the same way all the other sports do.
Not to the same extent.
All sports at MSU run in the black?



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by bobcat99 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm

Mtcatfan wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:01 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:43 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 am
utucats wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:51 am

My logic is simply that we shouldn’t have to govern athletic programs that operate in the red and programs that run in the black the same in the name of equality.

I think we should be able to over FCOA to our football program and exclude other programs where we can’t justify the added expense.
Football runs in the black the same way all the other sports do.
Not to the same extent.
All sports at MSU run in the black?
I was assuming he just got his colors mixed up, but no, not all sports run in the black. The majority lose money.

Take tennis. Nothing against tennis, fun sport. But does it actually make money here? Of course not. It's a pure loss. It's frustrating.



77matcat
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by 77matcat » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:49 am

AFCat

Figured it was after 72. I graduated from HS then. Didn’t and don’t really follow girls bb, but I assume there wasn’t a real flock of talent to the game because there weren’t robust programs from first grade up.

If you go back to 72 there weren’t any women presidents or CEOs that I recall. Civil war ended in 1865. There wasn’t a black president till 2008. Some things you do because it’s the right thing do to.

Some folks apparently don’t believe it is.

I’m thinking it was.
Last edited by 77matcat on Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:12 am

77matcat wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:49 am
AFCat

Figured it was after 72. I graduated from HS then. Didn’t and don’t really follow girls bb, but I assume there wasn’t a real flock of talent to the game because there weren’t robust programs from first grade up.

If you go back to 72 there weren’t any women presidents or CEOs that I recall. Civil war ended in 1865. There wasn’t a black president till 2008. Some things you do because it’s the right thing do to.

Some folks apparently don’t believe it is.

I’m thinking or was.
Time isn't going to change the physiological differences between male and female sports. That's the point that you seem to keep on missing/avoiding.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by utucats » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:12 am
77matcat wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:49 am
AFCat

Figured it was after 72. I graduated from HS then. Didn’t and don’t really follow girls bb, but I assume there wasn’t a real flock of talent to the game because there weren’t robust programs from first grade up.

If you go back to 72 there weren’t any women presidents or CEOs that I recall. Civil war ended in 1865. There wasn’t a black president till 2008. Some things you do because it’s the right thing do to.

Some folks apparently don’t believe it is.

I’m thinking or was.
Time isn't going to change the physiological differences between male and female sports. That's the point that you seem to keep on missing/avoiding.
Ding ding ding. For some reason 77 seems to believe that since we’ve had an African American President and female CEOs that it’s just a matter of time until we get a female LeBron James.


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