Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

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Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:02 am

There isn't anything that can be done this year to fix the defense. We don't have the know-how to do that and the players already fragile confidence is gone.

The problem is our player development and scouting is lacking and the transfers we brought in are overrated. The coaches made Tappan, Clark, Carter and Naotala sound like impact players. Tappan couldn't beat out Fletcher Collins a guy who was considering quitting and has just 0.5 tfl. Clark is behind Hutchins, who has nine tackles in four games (Tyrone Holmes, who plays a similar position has 9 SACKS!). Carter, who has started all four games, is behind Garcia, who has played in just three, in tackles 19-13. Bryson McCabe has as many tackles in one game as Thomas has in four. McCabe has more pass break ups than all our safeties combined. 2-0.

We have multiple 2 and 3 star rated players on the defensive side that don't produce. Fa'anono is 3-star, Clark 2, Carter 3, Tappan 3, King 2, Keeton 2, Thomas 2, Hutchins 2. Jeffries and Collins were AA defensive MVPs. Sorry for throwing them under the bus, but these guys wouldn't be a good Frontier defense the way they play.

Our best players on defense are Mac Bignell and Yates. From Drummond and Colstrip. Class C and B schools. Chew on that for a while. Grant Collins seems to be getting better.

We could line up four newborn puppies and they'd get just as good a pass rush. We could rush two and our secondary would still get beat. Bignell and Yates are the only two tacklers out there.

Promoting Kane to DC was the biggest mistake. He's a Marshall student. Ash should've brought in someone from the outside. LIKE HE DOES AT OC.

If you think we'll get better playing the likes of Sac State, PSU or UND forget it. All three teams will get over 400 yards and break off some long 30+ yard plays. We won't make it to the um game without a loss and we will lose to the grizz and miss the playoffs.

They also lack self-discipline as shown by how often they're lined up out of position and if not they get out of position after the snap. Instead of read and react they guess before the snap.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by 77matcat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:09 am

[ ] is that you????


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by mslacatfan » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:26 am

I get that it is frustrating, but lets not completely give up hope.

I'm not questioning that they have looked pretty terrible overall... but they are definitely young and inexperienced. If they can improve every game going forward (even slightly) then they will be okay.

We don't need them to be great, we don't even need them to be mediocre... we just need them to not be the worst in the league. The offense has enough talent that with just any kind of a resemblance of a defense, the cats can still beat anyone in the country.

I'm frustrated with the defense just like everyone else, but don't give up hope just yet, still early in the season.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:28 am

[cat_bracket] wrote:There isn't anything that can be done this year to fix the defense. We don't have the know-how to do that and the players already fragile confidence is gone.

The problem is our player development and scouting is lacking and the transfers we brought in are overrated. The coaches made Tappan, Clark, Carter and Naotala sound like impact players. Tappan couldn't beat out Fletcher Collins a guy who was considering quitting and has just 0.5 tfl. Clark is behind Hutchins, who has nine tackles in four games (Tyrone Holmes, who plays a similar position has 9 SACKS!). Carter, who has started all four games, is behind Garcia, who has played in just three, in tackles 19-13. Bryson McCabe has as many tackles in one game as Thomas has in four. McCabe has more pass break ups than all our safeties combined. 2-0.

We have multiple 2 and 3 star rated players on the defensive side that don't produce. Fa'anono is 3-star, Clark 2, Carter 3, Tappan 3, King 2, Keeton 2, Thomas 2, Hutchins 2. Jeffries and Collins were AA defensive MVPs. Sorry for throwing them under the bus, but these guys wouldn't be a good Frontier defense the way they play.

Our best players on defense are Mac Bignell and Yates. From Drummond and Colstrip. Class C and B schools. Chew on that for a while. Grant Collins seems to be getting better.

We could line up four newborn puppies and they'd get just as good a pass rush. We could rush two and our secondary would still get beat. Bignell and Yates are the only two tacklers out there.

Promoting Kane to DC was the biggest mistake. He's a Marshall student. Ash should've brought in someone from the outside. LIKE HE DOES AT OC.

If you think we'll get better playing the likes of Sac State, PSU or UND forget it. All three teams will get over 400 yards and break off some long 30+ yard plays. We won't make it to the um game without a loss and we will lose to the grizz and miss the playoffs.

They also lack self-discipline as shown by how often they're lined up out of position and if not they get out of position after the snap. Instead of read and react they guess before the snap.
What are you talking about???? You know there is no possible way our AA kids aren't performing up to their Gatoraide accolades and get outworked and manhandled by a bunch of country hicks! Plus, what chance do the kids have of learning our sophisticated defensive playbook????? First and foremost, they have to learn how to line up and that line has to grasp just how difficult it is to get the twists and turns down....geezzzz, go look at the film so you can see what went wrong and quit this Monday morning armchair quarterback analysis now!



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:43 am

Awesome thread, guys. We are now egriz thanks to cat bracket and a few others.

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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:46 am

As to the comment about the defense having no more confidence, go read Taylor Sheridan's post game comments. You don't know what you're talking about.

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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:09 am

I went along the lines of Gtapp with his analysis of what the defense was going to be this year. He stated many times that we shouldn't expect the defense to be very good in 2015 and the points he laid out include:

- we are starting 3-5 new linebackers on defense
- our defensive line will not have a consistent pass rush
- our secondary is young and unproven other than Keeton (who is not playing that bad at all in my opinion)

You know what is going to fix the D? Experience! Let them grow together. If you want to fix something, sometimes you have to break it and build it up again. We have a lot of guys guessing on defense right now and nearly all of them are doing that because they are young and inexperienced. Like it or not, we WILL win these next 6 games and will be going into Cat-Griz right where we need to be...playing for a potential conference championship. I will never quit on this team.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:18 am

91catAlum wrote:Awesome thread, guys. We are now egriz thanks to cat bracket and a few others.

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The questions ask in the other threads were " what can fix the defense?" And "what's the problem with the defense?" I'm answering those questions. Has nothing to do with egriz, so don't play that card.

As for whoever said confidence isn't an issue, you've got to be kidding. Of course a player won't concede to that. There's no way these guys believe in themselves or their coaches right now. None. They're completely confused.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:31 am

[cat_bracket] wrote:
91catAlum wrote:Awesome thread, guys. We are now egriz thanks to cat bracket and a few others.

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The questions ask in the other threads were " what can fix the defense?" And "what's the problem with the defense?" I'm answering those questions. Has nothing to do with egriz, so don't play that card.

As for whoever said confidence isn't an issue, you've got to be kidding. Of course a player won't concede to that. There's no way these guys believe in themselves or their coaches right now. None. They're completely confused.
I'm not playing a card. You called out a bunch of players by name, threw them under the bus, then admitted you were throwing them under the bus but kept going anyway. Don't defend it by accusing me of playing "that" card. You're in the wrong, not me.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:48 am

Just rewatched the tape last night and reviewed every snap per unit (defensive line, linebackers, and secondary). You are absolutely correct CB in that the front 7 is guessing a lot, especially at the linebacker level.

Linebackers - The problem I see is they are not trusting their initial reads. One time Grant Collins hit the correct hole but hesitated and let the running back run free. We will probably see more of this from Grant because he is only a redshirt freshman. Fletcher Collins has been the biggest culprit of hesitation so far and it has lead to some huge gains from running backs. However, I mostly just see guys out of position pre-snap.

Defenisve line - We just don't have that pass rusher in the middle. What killed us last year was the inside pass rush which lead to a domino effect of no outside pass rush. This year hasn't been any different. I know Sheridan has caught some heat but in the games I have rewatched, he is about the only one who has applied a consistent pass rush. Conner Thomas and Nate Bignell have shown flashes but that is it. Tucker Yates is an absolute stud in the run game by the way. Made an instant impact each time he went in there on Saturday. As for our defensive end unit, it has been a rough first four games. There just isn't "a guy" out there. Clark hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities. LaBoy is more of a run-stopper. Fa-anono still plays his ass off. Hutchins has gotten some pressure but nothing to write home about. Jeffries is improving and has been the most improved player along the D-line this year in my opinion.

Secondary - Now I know I might be chastised for this but the corners are actually not playing that bad. Are they giving up big plays? Yes the stats don't lie but not in the same fashion as last year. Breaking down the tape, they have already had more pass breakups than at this point last year and they are in way better position to make plays. Their technique is better and they are playing way more aggressive. The only problem with the corners so far has been their lack of ability to make the play (interceptions). As for the safeties, I have been very unimpressed with Des Carter so far, especially in the run game. After looking at the first four games, his angles to the ball carrier are very poor for a senior. Garcia is turning it on in the run game but his pass defense has been a struggle thus far as he is guessing a lot in coverage which has lead to some big gains. Demonte King is playing about as well as a redshirt freshman with talent should be playing. He has made some splash plays in both the run and pass game but has made a ton of mental mistakes.

Overall, I'm optimistic because early on the defense has more often than not looked like a jumbled mess which is mostly due to two things: they have not played together as a unit for very long and they are still learning a new defense. We said in the offseason that defenses will allow yards in this conference but the best defenses will not allow as many touchdowns. We have not kept teams out of the endzone this year. Also, saying Kane comes from the Marshall school of football is inaccurate because one employs a man-to-man, 3-4 style and another is a zone scheme, base 4-3 guy. Kane is a disciple of Pete Kwiatowski who was one of the best defensive coordinators the Cats have ever had. Like Cramsey 3 years ago, I do not think Kane has the pieces to play in his defense yet. He is working with the personnel he has and most of that personnel is very young and very raw in terms of game experience. We live in a state of football where as fans we want quick fixes to everything from the NFL to high school but scheme changes take time. Unfortunately, our defense will be the liability this year with the hope that it will improve enough by the end of the season to play championship football or at least give our offense a chance. I have hope.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by BozoneCat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:04 am

Everyone keeps talking about how the players continue to line up in the wrong spots. Isn't this pretty much basic, 5th-grade level stuff? If our schemes are so complex that our guys don't even know where they should be before the play starts, how can you expect to be in the right spot once the play actually happens?! These guys are not complete idiots, I just can't understand how that continues to be a problem for 2 years now.

Personally, I'd like to see MSU's defensive coaches take advantage of the coaching tree and spend some time down at Boise State. Coach Yates is doing amazing things with the defense there, and that's a defense that I absolutely LOVE watching. They are disciplined and aggressive, two things we are not. I'd take BSU's defense over USC's any day right now.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by HelenaCat95 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:09 am

Great analysis Vim!!

I'd add one more thing to it. Not only are the players young, and new to the scheme - so are the coaches. This is Kane's first time as DC, and he will make mistakes. Also, since it's a new scheme, there is no one on staff that is used to calling defenses in that new scheme. It will take time, and growth, and new personnel. I'm not happy with where we are at - but I'm hopeful that it will get better.

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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:11 am

BozoneCat wrote:Everyone keeps talking about how the players continue to line up in the wrong spots. Isn't this pretty much basic, 5th-grade level stuff? If our schemes are so complex that our guys don't even know where they should be before the play starts, how can you expect to be in the right spot once the play actually happens?! These guys are not complete idiots, I just can't understand how that continues to be a problem for 2 years now.

Personally, I'd like to see MSU's defensive coaches take advantage of the coaching tree and spend some time down at Boise State. Coach Yates is doing amazing things with the defense there, and that's a defense that I absolutely LOVE watching. They are disciplined and aggressive, two things we are not. I'd take BSU's defense over USC's any day right now.
And I also don't think Kane had the defense ready for a no-huddle NAU offense on Saturday. Substitution problems and players were not lined up in their stance pre-snap prior to about 5-6 big run gains mostly due to the no-huddle and not knowing the play (I'm basing that assessment off of multiple players on the front seven putting their hands up like this pre-snap :shrug: )


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Darth Yoda » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:53 am

Geeeezzzzzuuuuus bracket. Allow me to return serve while you head to the pharmacy.

Who the eff would you be rather rooting for right now? Serious question. EWU? They start 0-2 and head home only to give up 718 yards. A bunch of new born puppies could have played better D than EWU that day. Then how about going to Sac and never getting off the bus? How fun is it being down 20-7 late in the game to Sac? Doesn't sound like fun to me. You want to cheer for UM? It can't be fun to lose at home to a team that we destroyed. Then guess what? Liberty flat out proved creationism against them. The vaunted D looks beatable to me. Davis scored on their first 3 drives and were in the game the up to the middle of the 4th quarter. You want to cheer for NAU? How's it feel to give up 77 points to an in state team? Not fun. You want to cheer for Poly? How does a 1-3 start feel with at least one seriously embarrassing loss. Seriously bracket. With a clean slate and no questions asked, which one of these 2+ loss teams do you want to be cheering for right now? You like Kramer? Guess how much fun it is being a Bengal right now. You like PSU and their PAC 12 win? Guess how much fun it is to worry about the entire program imploding? Not much fun at all. I could go on. The point is that every team has had some total sh!t the bed moments this year. Not just us.

Here's some more stories to chew on. The last team to win a NC not named NDSU also had a pretty rough start if you remember. They happened to start 2-2 and their second loss also came on the road to a historically tough place to play. An upstart freshman QB crushed them that day. Well guess what? That same team recovered and, along with their Walter Payton winning QB in his junior year, won their next 11 games in a row. How about SHSU last year losing to a DII and, along with a bunch of D transfers that looked really bad early, going to the national semifinal? How about last year when NDSU decided not to get off the bus at NIU and only scored 3 points? They looked pretty bad that day, but the season turned out pretty well. I could go on. The point is that historically there are teams that look bad early and go on to great things. This could be us.

Perhaps your right about this defense. I'm not convinced just yet you are, but it sure could be. If you are right, what we have to look forward to is an incredibly exciting team with a QB marching his way to the Payton award. And here's the final nugget I'll leave you with: even if our situation on D is a dire as you seem to believe, from what I've seen so far in the conference, we still have an actual chance to raise the BSC banner and get some rings.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:01 am

Darth Yoda wrote:Geeeezzzzzuuuuus bracket. Allow me to return serve while you head to the pharmacy.

Who the eff would you be rather rooting for right now? Serious question. EWU? They start 0-2 and head home only to give up 718 yards. A bunch of new born puppies could have played better D than EWU that day. Then how about going to Sac and never getting off the bus? How fun is it being down 20-7 late in the game to Sac? Doesn't sound like fun to me. You want to cheer for UM? It can't be fun to lose at home to a team that we destroyed. Then guess what? Liberty flat out proved creationism against them. The vaunted D looks beatable to me. Davis scored on their first 3 drives and were in the game the up to the middle of the 4th quarter. You want to cheer for NAU? How's it feel to give up 77 points to an in state team? Not fun. You want to cheer for Poly? How does a 1-3 start feel with at least one seriously embarrassing loss. Seriously bracket. With a clean slate and no questions asked, which one of these 2+ loss teams do you want to be cheering for right now? You like Kramer? Guess how much fun it is being a Bengal right now. You like PSU and their PAC 12 win? Guess how much fun it is to worry about the entire program imploding? Not much fun at all. I could go on. The point is that every team has had some total sh!t the bed moments this year. Not just us.

Here's some more stories to chew on. The last team to win a NC not named NDSU also had a pretty rough start if you remember. They happened to start 2-2 and their second loss also came on the road to a historically tough place to play. An upstart freshman QB crushed them that day. Well guess what? That same team recovered and, along with their Walter Payton winning QB in his junior year, won their next 11 games in a row. How about SHSU last year losing to a DII and, along with a bunch of D transfers that looked really bad early, going to the national semifinal? How about last year when NDSU decided not to get off the bus at NIU and only scored 3 points? They looked pretty bad that day, but the season turned out pretty well. I could go on. The point is that historically there are teams that look bad early and go on to great things. This could be us.

Perhaps your right about this defense. I'm not convinced just yet you are, but it sure could be. If you are right, what we have to look forward to is an incredibly exciting team with a QB marching his way to the Payton award. And here's the final nugget I'll leave you with: even if our situation on D is a dire as you seem to believe, from what I've seen so far in the conference, we still have an actual chance to raise the BSC banner and get some rings.
Strawman post if the year. I want to root for another team? Classic.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Helcat72 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:02 am

One other thing, go back and read colters prediction for how our season would evolve. He chooses nau as our only loss going into the Bobcat grizzly game.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:05 am

91catAlum wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:
91catAlum wrote:Awesome thread, guys. We are now egriz thanks to cat bracket and a few others.

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The questions ask in the other threads were " what can fix the defense?" And "what's the problem with the defense?" I'm answering those questions. Has nothing to do with egriz, so don't play that card.

As for whoever said confidence isn't an issue, you've got to be kidding. Of course a player won't concede to that. There's no way these guys believe in themselves or their coaches right now. None. They're completely confused.
I'm not playing a card. You called out a bunch of players by name, threw them under the bus, then admitted you were throwing them under the bus but kept going anyway. Don't defend it by accusing me of playing "that" card. You're in the wrong, not me.
Uhh, no. You absolutely played the egriz card. Yep I threw them under the bus. No doubt. Read Vim's post and you can see why. Everyone should, but the players are beating us to it.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:09 am

Clearly you've never played the game....

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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Joe Bobcat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:49 am

[bracket] perhaps you should take your own advise and read Vim's post because while he directly pointed out some of the problems on defense he also clearly pointed out the possibility that these things can be worked on and improvements made.
You on the other hand wrote "Nothing can fix the D". It is obvious that you have given up and quit on this team. Your fragile confidence has been broken. Over and over your posts show that you are an individual desperately lacking in self discipline, and you have the nerve to make these accusations against student athletes busting their backside to win games.
Bottom line Vim speaks with knowledge and an eye toward the possible while [bracket] speaks hysterically of the sky falling and nothing can fix it, so yes [] read what Vim wrote till your hysteria and panic have passed.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Colter_Nuanez » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:05 pm

Helcat72 wrote:One other thing, go back and read colters prediction for how our season would evolve. He chooses nau as our only loss going into the Bobcat grizzly game.
I could've told you from the day the schedule came out that MSU would lose in Flagstaff. Every Montana State team I've covered has a hard time going to place they've never been (none of these 'Cats were on the team in 2010). Remember Southern Utah in 2012? Narrow win despite MSU being one of the best teams in the country. UC Davis later that year? A one-score win despite a sizeable advantage in talent. Flagstaff is a tough place to play and you had to know NAU was going to let it all hang out against the Bobcats, just like they always do against the Montana schools at the Walkup Skydome.

It's fascinating how expectations can change and influence a narrative surrounding a team. Last season, Montana State had an unknown at quarterback and an unproven defense. MSU started the season 2-2 and 3-2 despite playing four of five at home. At this exact point last season, Montana State followers were glowing with optimism despite the fact that Montana State had a loss to EWU, a Division II win and a solid win over a solid but likely slightly overrated Central Arkansas team. This season, MSU has a Division II win, a loss to Eastern Washington, a loss at one of the toughest places to play in the league and a win over a solid but likely slightly overrated Cal Poly team. Yet because preseason expectations were so high, the perception is much different.

Montana State's defensive problems are more dire than I thought entering the season. Not a single transfer is performing up to expectations. Montana State will struggle mightily with any team that throws the ball down the field vertically this season. But Sac State is likely the worst team in the Big Sky with three freshman defensive back starters and an offense averaging 13 points per game against Division I competition, Portland State can't throw the ball down the field or play from behind and East Tennessee State is likely the worst team in Division I so the players and coaches have almost a month to figure it out.

Portland State and North Dakota are both the real deal defensively. UND is looking more and more like a title contender. Southern Utah is going to continue to gain momentum with a bye followed by games against UC Davis and Sac State, meaning the T-Birds will likely be 4-0 in conference before the meat of their schedule which includes a final month of Cal Poly, @ Montana State, @ Portland State, NAU at home. Idaho State is reeling but none of these MSU players have ever played at Holt Arena...and ISU can throw the ball down the field. Michael Sanders, the quarterback, is sub-standard compared to Arias but all the offensive weapons remain the same.

Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.

UND has a chance to be 4-0 (Idaho State, Weber State) before playing the Montana schools back to back weeks, which will make or break their title bid.

If Cal Poly loses to Eastern this weekend, it will be hard to bounce back despite CP's schedule mellowing out a bit after that, although PSU, SUU and UND still remain.

NAU will likely get on a little roll with Davis, Weber and Northern Colorado up next before at EWU on November 7.

EWU has ISU, UNC and Weber before hosting NAU, so the Eagles could get some momentum going as well.

Portland State has arguably the toughest remaining schedule — at North Texas, Montana State, at Cal Poly, Montana, at Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, at EWU.

Montana's October — Weber State, UND, At Portland State — doesn't look so easy all of a sudden and the finish — at Idaho State, EWU, at Montana State — is tough as well.
Last edited by Colter_Nuanez on Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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