Montana's Top Students Choose MSU:

[CelticCat]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

So being proud of your school's academics is drinking koolaid, pounding your chest, or whatever drivel you are spewing? But doing the exact same thing about your football program is perfectly okay?

Sheesh, you are touchy today. Touchier than normal. MSU is proud of our academics. I too find it funny you are rousing up such a bitch-storm for a school I've heard many UMers refer to as the Harvard of the West...

[LTown Cat]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

[3rdGenerationcat]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

you lost me at koolaid... but im pretty sure with the koolaide and the chest thing you were being racist

[kmax]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

Actually I guess I would argue on the point being about awesome amount of brain drain in Montana, and your bitching about MSU not being Stanford only proves that point. Per the article of the top 6% of students in Montana a little less than half stay in state. I would say that is actually pretty damn high. Students that are scoring that high and pulling in those grades are the ones that are going to Stanford, Ivy league or other top schools. Now, many of them may not get scholarships and thus can't afford that type of education or for some other reason just don't go to those top schools. The fact that such a large number of those top, talented students feel they can still get a quality education right here at MSU or UM is a HUGE testament to both our schools.

Now if you really want to talk about "brain drain" or have something to get excited about move 4-5 years later in those students lives and look at all of the top students graduating from MSU and UM that have to go out of state to find a job at a decent salary in their chosen field. That's much bigger than the ones leaving just to go to college.

[Sportin' Life]

...school I've heard many UMers refer to as the Harvard of the West...

Just because its on the front page of the umt.edu website doesn't mean that most of us aren't embarrassed of it.

[grizgirl]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

I don't see where anyone from MSU said it was Stanford. No one was trying to make that point, so why are you trying to defeat it? You're the only one that needs to let that go. I've never ever heard anyone say that in my life, but I have heard UM people call us the "Harvard of the West" to which I spit up my coffee. I think most people in their heart of hearts know MSU is the better school. That the really smart high school students from Montana choose to go to MSU over UM at nearly a 3 to 1 clip is hard to argue. FACT: Good schools attract good students. UM fans saying we're just as good as MSU in academics is like MSU fans saying they're just as good at football. Simply not true.

[Sportin' Life]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

I don't see where anyone from MSU said it was Stanford. No one was trying to make that point, so why are you trying to defeat it? You're the only one that needs to let that go. I've never ever heard anyone say that in my life, but I have heard UM people call us the "Harvard of the West" to which I spit up my coffee. I think most people in their heart of hearts know MSU is the better school. That the really smart high school students from Montana choose to go to MSU over UM at nearly a 3 to 1 clip is hard to argue. FACT: Good schools attract good students. UM fans saying we're just as good as MSU in academics is like MSU fans saying they're just as good at football. Simply not true.

I'm back at UM after a year at MSU after I got my undergraduate years ago at UM and I have to say that so far I am mightily impressed with what is going on academically at UM. I would agree that as far as US News report goes, it paints a fairly accurate picture of what is going on in terms of undergraduate degrees. An Undergraduate degree at MSU is more expensive and worth slightly more, admission standards are pretty much the same, but UM has been improving. Overall they are mostly on a par, with a slight edge to MSU

In terms of graduate work UM offers MBAs, Law Degrees, and Pharmacy degrees and so is hands down the better institution for post graduate work.

[CARDIAC_CATS]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

I don't see where anyone from MSU said it was Stanford. No one was trying to make that point, so why are you trying to defeat it? You're the only one that needs to let that go. I've never ever heard anyone say that in my life, but I have heard UM people call us the "Harvard of the West" to which I spit up my coffee. I think most people in their heart of hearts know MSU is the better school. That the really smart high school students from Montana choose to go to MSU over UM at nearly a 3 to 1 clip is hard to argue. FACT: Good schools attract good students. UM fans saying we're just as good as MSU in academics is like MSU fans saying they're just as good at football. Simply not true.

I'm back at UM after a year at MSU after I got my undergraduate years ago at UM and I have to say that so far I am mightily impressed with what is going on academically at UM. I would agree that as far as US News report goes, it paints a fairly accurate picture of what is going on in terms of undergraduate degrees. An Undergraduate degree at MSU is more expensive and worth slightly more, admission standards are pretty much the same, but UM has been improving. Overall they are mostly on a par, with a slight edge to MSU

In terms of graduate work UM offers MBAs, Law Degrees, and Pharmacy degrees and so is hands down the better institution for post graduate work.

UM should have a leg up in Law and Pharmacy degrees ... MSU doesn't offer it

[WolfPtCat]

UM fans saying we're just as good as MSU in academics is like MSU fans saying they're just as good at football. Simply not true.

There is quite a bit of truth in that statement. Every once in a while, UM might have a poli-sci/journ/enviro sci prodigy that lands him/herself a Rhodes.....just like every once in a while MSU might have a red-headed QB prodigy that kicks a 20 yr old, tree-huggin, no-showerin' monkey off our back.

All that being said, MSU grads are rightfully proud of the education they recieved and the university which provided it. Remember, we are universities that sponsor a football team, not the other way around.

[Sportin' Life]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

I don't see where anyone from MSU said it was Stanford. No one was trying to make that point, so why are you trying to defeat it? You're the only one that needs to let that go. I've never ever heard anyone say that in my life, but I have heard UM people call us the "Harvard of the West" to which I spit up my coffee. I think most people in their heart of hearts know MSU is the better school. That the really smart high school students from Montana choose to go to MSU over UM at nearly a 3 to 1 clip is hard to argue. FACT: Good schools attract good students. UM fans saying we're just as good as MSU in academics is like MSU fans saying they're just as good at football. Simply not true.

I'm back at UM after a year at MSU after I got my undergraduate years ago at UM and I have to say that so far I am mightily impressed with what is going on academically at UM. I would agree that as far as US News report goes, it paints a fairly accurate picture of what is going on in terms of undergraduate degrees. An Undergraduate degree at MSU is more expensive and worth slightly more, admission standards are pretty much the same, but UM has been improving. Overall they are mostly on a par, with a slight edge to MSU

In terms of graduate work UM offers MBAs, Law Degrees, and Pharmacy degrees and so is hands down the better institution for post graduate work.

UM should have a leg up in Law and Pharmacy degrees ... MSU doesn't offer it

Which is exactly the same reason MSU with undergraduate degrees in Engineering has a leg up on UM. Does MSU offer MBAs now? I thought they didn't.

[SonomaCat]

I don't think MSU offers MBAs, and last time I heard the topic come up with the former dean, it sounded like nobody was really interested in starting up a program.

In all honesty ... getting an MBA in Montana is generally a waste of money. It's one of those degrees that, unless you get it from a top tier program, it's not going to add much value to your career.

If you're just looking to gain some knowledge or getting some business education coming from another undergrad field, then the MBA from UM might be worth it to you, but if you are expecting it to be a springboard for one's career for a business undergrad ... it's probably not a good investment, as it won't take you any further than a business undergrad degree for the most part.

[kmax]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

I don't see where anyone from MSU said it was Stanford. No one was trying to make that point, so why are you trying to defeat it? You're the only one that needs to let that go. I've never ever heard anyone say that in my life, but I have heard UM people call us the "Harvard of the West" to which I spit up my coffee. I think most people in their heart of hearts know MSU is the better school. That the really smart high school students from Montana choose to go to MSU over UM at nearly a 3 to 1 clip is hard to argue. FACT: Good schools attract good students. UM fans saying we're just as good as MSU in academics is like MSU fans saying they're just as good at football. Simply not true.

I'm back at UM after a year at MSU after I got my undergraduate years ago at UM and I have to say that so far I am mightily impressed with what is going on academically at UM. I would agree that as far as US News report goes, it paints a fairly accurate picture of what is going on in terms of undergraduate degrees. An Undergraduate degree at MSU is more expensive and worth slightly more, admission standards are pretty much the same, but UM has been improving. Overall they are mostly on a par, with a slight edge to MSU

In terms of graduate work UM offers MBAs, Law Degrees, and Pharmacy degrees and so is hands down the better institution for post graduate work.

UM should have a leg up in Law and Pharmacy degrees ... MSU doesn't offer it

Which is exactly the same reason MSU with undergraduate degrees in Engineering has a leg up on UM. Does MSU offer MBAs now? I thought they didn't.

No, I don't believe MSU offers an MBA. You do realize that an MBA is just a Master's level business degree right? And that both MSU and UM have many many Master's programs as well as Doctorate programs.

[SonomaCat]

Isn't MSU's acceptance rate much lower as well? I thought it was in the 60s, which kind of surprised me (as I didn't realize that many people got rejected when applying to MSU). UM was in the 90s, I think.

[CARDIAC_CATS]

****** talking about drinking the koolaid. Non the less I hate all of the MSU chest pounding. I know they did away with Tiers and MSU is like 116 and U of M is like 121. My point being you're not Stanford and never will be, let it go. Just a couple of little old state schools that teach kids stop acting like your 80K salary from MSU in any way compares. The missed point on that article is the awesome amount of brain drain going on in Montana. A point that several posters on this site prove on a daily basis.

Your right, I actually think MSU is better than Standord ... we have better tailgating

[kmax]

Isn't MSU's acceptance rate much lower as well? I thought it was in the 60s, which kind of surprised me (as I didn't realize that many people got rejected when applying to MSU). UM was in the 90s, I think.

Close, MSU was 64% and UM was 83%. See the link I posted way back in the 5th or so post on this thread.

[Sportin' Life]

No, I don't believe MSU offers an MBA. You do realize that an MBA is just a Master's level business degree right? And that both MSU and UM have many many Master's programs as well as Doctorate programs.

Yeah, I know what an MBA is. And yes, having been a graduate student at both institutions I'd say that I was aware that both universities offered higher degrees. All I'm saying is that the higher degrees offered at UM overall are better than the higher degrees offered at UM, mostly because of the weight of the value of the MBAs, Pharmacy, and Law degrees.

And I am agreeing with you that overall (but mostly because of the value of the good engineering degrees) that an undergraduate degree from MSU is worth more and MSU is a (slightly) better school for undergraduate degrees.

[whitetrashgriz]

[quote="Sportin' Life"]All I'm saying is that the higher degrees offered at UM overall are better than the higher degrees offered at UM[quote]

think that sentence sums up what school has the more intelligent students...

[seataccat]

No, I don't believe MSU offers an MBA. You do realize that an MBA is just a Master's level business degree right? And that both MSU and UM have many many Master's programs as well as Doctorate programs.

Yeah, I know what an MBA is. And yes, having been a graduate student at both institutions I'd say that I was aware that both universities offered higher degrees. All I'm saying is that the higher degrees offered at UM overall are better than the higher degrees offered at UM, mostly because of the weight of the value of the MBAs, Pharmacy, and Law degrees.

And I am agreeing with you that overall (but mostly because of the value of the good engineering degrees) that an undergraduate degree from MSU is worth more and MSU is a (slightly) better school for undergraduate degrees.

I disagree about the higher degrees being better at UM. Graduate schools are usually ranked by the amount of research that they do. This may not be true for business schools or fine arts. Again it will come down to what you are studying, the UM has a damn fine forestry program. The UM I will concede has a better graduate business and fine arts school but for anything else no way. The rankings as far as research universities can be found here.

http://mup.asu.edu/research2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

University of Montana does not qualify on the list because they do no have $40 Million in annual Federal Research.

University Rankings in research dollars

MSU is 121
UM is 171

also national merit scholors

MSU 14 ranked 109
UM 7 ranked 159

[Grizlaw]

I disagree about the higher degrees being better at UM. Graduate schools are usually ranked by the amount of research that they do. This may not be true for business schools or fine arts. Again it will come down to what you are studying, the UM has a damn fine forestry program. The UM I will concede has a better graduate business and fine arts school but for anything else no way.

...law, pharmacy, journalism, physical therapy, creative writing. Those are just the ones that spring immediately to mind; I'm sure there are others.

I don't think comparing research dollars is a great proxy for comparing our schools' graduate programs. The programs in which MSU excels (i.e., engineering and the sciences) will always cause it to receive more research dollars than UM. That does not mean there aren't areas in which UM is superior.

also national merit scholors

MSU 14 ranked 109
UM 7 ranked 159

You realize national merit scholars are undergrads, right?

[wbtfg]

...law, pharmacy, journalism, physical therapy, creative writing. Those are just the ones that spring immediately to mind; I'm sure there are others.

Many of those students received their undergrad degree at MSU...specifically the MBA, Law, Pharm, and PT students.

You realize national merit scholars are undergrads, right?

You realize that the genesis of this thread was about top high school students choosing their path for undergraduate education, right?

So his point that MSU has twice as many NM Scholars as UM provides further support to the original article from the Missoulain.