Thought exercise: the Hauck 2.0 grizzlies are the Rob Ash Bobcats.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I really dislike saying this, but Hauck is/was a significantly better coach than Ash.

Expand on that.

I don't necessarily disagree but would like to hear why. They both seem to underperform and be a product of their soft regular season schedules and strong conference reputation. Hauck 2.0 rode a punt returner to Frisco but otherwise hasn't done anything special. I say that as a charter member of the Fire Ash Club.

Ash’s teams were remarkably dysfunctional. He didn’t value the in system players much. Guys got away with a TON of stuff. Towards the end of his tenure there was a huge divide between the offensive players/coaches and their defensive counterparts. While some players were talented, they rarely beat teams that were of a similar talent and were generally soft as a team. A poor man’s Eastern Washington if you will.


Ash got by because he came off as a nice guy, but I know enough to have absolutely zero use or respect for him. Plus the crap he pulled with his kid was ******. The university paid a fair amount of money for his useless “services”.

I agree hauck is better but the trend is remarkably similar. They could be looking at 7-5 next year with a bad defense.

While possible, I think it’s unlikely. Regardless, still better than Ash.

[GoldstoneCat]

I really dislike saying this, but Hauck is/was a significantly better coach than Ash.

Expand on that.

I don't necessarily disagree but would like to hear why. They both seem to underperform and be a product of their soft regular season schedules and strong conference reputation. Hauck 2.0 rode a punt returner to Frisco but otherwise hasn't done anything special. I say that as a charter member of the Fire Ash Club.

Ash’s teams were remarkably dysfunctional. He didn’t value the in system players much. Guys got away with a TON of stuff. Towards the end of his tenure there was a huge divide between the offensive players/coaches and their defensive counterparts. While some players were talented, they rarely beat teams that were of a similar talent and were generally soft as a team. A poor man’s Eastern Washington if you will.


Ash got by because he came off as a nice guy, but I know enough to have absolutely zero use or respect for him. Plus the crap he pulled with his kid was ******. The university paid a fair amount of money for his useless “services”.

I agree hauck is better but the trend is remarkably similar. They could be looking at 7-5 next year with a bad defense.

While possible, I think it’s unlikely. Regardless, still better than Ash.

The more I think, the more I'm not sure the 2.0 version is better. I think the league is worse than it was in 2012. Weber was better. Eastern was just off a championship. Cats were good. North Dakota was at least decent. NAU was better. Hauck 2.0 has feasted on a weak BSC and terrible non conference schedules.

[Prodigal Cat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

It was sorta a fluke but it also wasn't. We around here know that games are won in the trenches and teams at this level are built not borrowed via the portal. That 2023 Griz team had 4 and 5 year guys all over the field. Guys like Gubner, Janacaro, Gradney and on and on. It’s the only team Hauck has had that wasn't a bunch of Stitt guys and was full of developed in house players especially on defense. The problem is they graduated a ton of guys that season and they didn't have good players coming up behind that team so they keep trying to fix it with transfers. They don't have resources to put into high school kids because they need to win now so they use scholarships on 1 year portal players. They will have to do it again this year.

While all that is true, I still tend to believe that year was more fluke than not. Their defense was good, no doubt. But even with all that, their title game run was because an NFL talent return man had 3 returns for TD’s, accounting for 21 points in two playoff games that they won by a combined 9 points, along with being the focal point of a trick play reverse pass that was tipped for a 2pt conversion in OT to win a game.

AND the only reason that NFL talent player was even at UM was because of the coaching change at MSU caused him to flip his commit.

That screams fluke run if I ever saw one. Especially since they haven’t done anything like it in the other 6 seasons Hauck’s been back, this year being the closest.

Ok but he did those right? This isn't much different then the gris saying Caden's INT's are fluke. If he keeps doing it over and over again at what point do you acknowledge that its not luck its skill?

[Catsrgrood]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

It was sorta a fluke but it also wasn't. We around here know that games are won in the trenches and teams at this level are built not borrowed via the portal. That 2023 Griz team had 4 and 5 year guys all over the field. Guys like Gubner, Janacaro, Gradney and on and on. It’s the only team Hauck has had that wasn't a bunch of Stitt guys and was full of developed in house players especially on defense. The problem is they graduated a ton of guys that season and they didn't have good players coming up behind that team so they keep trying to fix it with transfers. They don't have resources to put into high school kids because they need to win now so they use scholarships on 1 year portal players. They will have to do it again this year.

While all that is true, I still tend to believe that year was more fluke than not. Their defense was good, no doubt. But even with all that, their title game run was because an NFL talent return man had 3 returns for TD’s, accounting for 21 points in two playoff games that they won by a combined 9 points, along with being the focal point of a trick play reverse pass that was tipped for a 2pt conversion in OT to win a game.

AND the only reason that NFL talent player was even at UM was because of the coaching change at MSU caused him to flip his commit.

That screams fluke run if I ever saw one. Especially since they haven’t done anything like it in the other 6 seasons Hauck’s been back, this year being the closest.

Ok but he did those right? This isn't much different then the gris saying Caden's INT's are fluke. If he keeps doing it over and over again at what point do you acknowledge that its not luck its skill?

He absolutely did. And maybe this is semantics or might point just isn’t very good. Bergen was great. His individual returns were not flukes, they were skill.

Your point seemed that the 2023 run was due to the elite defense. My point is that their defense was very good and that it still wasn’t good enough on its own.
It took multiple unreal plays by one guy that a team would never rely on to win games consistently. While the individual returns were a unique skill by a player, the run to the title game as a whole was quite flukey by needing 3 of those in two games AND a trick play that tipped off of a guys hands into the lone open guy in the back of the end zone to get there.

The fact that they have not repeated a run like this and done it over and over again is an example of it being more of a fluke that one year.

Just like I would call the Cats 2021 run to the title game a flukey run IF they hadn’t made it back to the semi’s an/or final multiple times in the subsequent years. But the Cats have done just that, so I don’t consider that run a fluke at all. They’ve proved they have the talent and the program to get back to that level again and again in recent years.
2021 was a taste of what was to come for the Cats over the next few years. 2022 has not proven to be a taste of what’s to come for the griz, making just one appearance in the semi’s since and getting blown out in it.

[onceacat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

In fairness, the playoffs has expanded by 4 teams since then and the good teams (other than the DSUs) have all left. So its a significantly more watered down playoff system.

[onceacat]

I really dislike saying this, but Hauck is/was a significantly better coach than Ash.

Expand on that.

I don't necessarily disagree but would like to hear why. They both seem to underperform and be a product of their soft regular season schedules and strong conference reputation. Hauck 2.0 rode a punt returner to Frisco but otherwise hasn't done anything special. I say that as a charter member of the Fire Ash Club.

Ash’s teams were remarkably dysfunctional. He didn’t value the in system players much. Guys got away with a TON of stuff. Towards the end of his tenure there was a huge divide between the offensive players/coaches and their defensive counterparts. While some players were talented, they rarely beat teams that were of a similar talent and were generally soft as a team. A poor man’s Eastern Washington if you will.


Ash got by because he came off as a nice guy, but I know enough to have absolutely zero use or respect for him. Plus the crap he pulled with his kid was ******. The university paid a fair amount of money for his useless “services”.

I agree hauck is better but the trend is remarkably similar. They could be looking at 7-5 next year with a bad defense.

While possible, I think it’s unlikely. Regardless, still better than Ash.

The more I think, the more I'm not sure the 2.0 version is better. I think the league is worse than it was in 2012. Weber was better. Eastern was just off a championship. Cats were good. North Dakota was at least decent. NAU was better. Hauck 2.0 has feasted on a weak BSC and terrible non conference schedules.

The gap between the top teams and the second tier teams is a lot bigger. And the gap between the 2nd and 3rd tiers is a gulf. And the gap between the third tier and the bottom is measured in parsecs.

The transfer portal has been annoying for the Cats...but it's been a disaster for the bottom tier teams. They just can't hold onto or develop any talent.

[onceacat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

It was sorta a fluke but it also wasn't. We around here know that games are won in the trenches and teams at this level are built not borrowed via the portal. That 2023 Griz team had 4 and 5 year guys all over the field. Guys like Gubner, Janacaro, Gradney and on and on. It’s the only team Hauck has had that wasn't a bunch of Stitt guys and was full of developed in house players especially on defense. The problem is they graduated a ton of guys that season and they didn't have good players coming up behind that team so they keep trying to fix it with transfers. They don't have resources to put into high school kids because they need to win now so they use scholarships on 1 year portal players. They will have to do it again this year.

While all that is true, I still tend to believe that year was more fluke than not. Their defense was good, no doubt. But even with all that, their title game run was because an NFL talent return man had 3 returns for TD’s, accounting for 21 points in two playoff games that they won by a combined 9 points, along with being the focal point of a trick play reverse pass that was tipped for a 2pt conversion in OT to win a game.

AND the only reason that NFL talent player was even at UM was because of the coaching change at MSU caused him to flip his commit.

That screams fluke run if I ever saw one. Especially since they haven’t done anything like it in the other 6 seasons Hauck’s been back, this year being the closest.

Ok but he did those right? This isn't much different then the gris saying Caden's INT's are fluke. If he keeps doing it over and over again at what point do you acknowledge that its not luck its skill?

Bergens performance wasn't a fluke. It was a fluke that Bobby flipped Bergens commitment AND paired that with just enough 4th & 5th year talent on the lines to squeak through the playoffs.

I don't think theres a single player on the Cats that's as indispensable as Bergen was. Cats lost the best defensive player in FCS at the start of the game last weekend & it didn't matter. Cats could probably be down Jones or Davis & I don't think the offense would lose a step. NDSU builds teams in a similar non-flukey way.

[MrGoodKat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

In fairness, the playoffs has expanded by 4 teams since then and the good teams (other than the DSUs) have all left. So its a significantly more watered down playoff system.

Eh. They got their doors blown off by SHSU twice. Vigen’s 2021 Cats smoked those guys in Texas. His teams were miserable in the postseason.

[MrGoodKat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

It was sorta a fluke but it also wasn't. We around here know that games are won in the trenches and teams at this level are built not borrowed via the portal. That 2023 Griz team had 4 and 5 year guys all over the field. Guys like Gubner, Janacaro, Gradney and on and on. It’s the only team Hauck has had that wasn't a bunch of Stitt guys and was full of developed in house players especially on defense. The problem is they graduated a ton of guys that season and they didn't have good players coming up behind that team so they keep trying to fix it with transfers. They don't have resources to put into high school kids because they need to win now so they use scholarships on 1 year portal players. They will have to do it again this year.

While all that is true, I still tend to believe that year was more fluke than not. Their defense was good, no doubt. But even with all that, their title game run was because an NFL talent return man had 3 returns for TD’s, accounting for 21 points in two playoff games that they won by a combined 9 points, along with being the focal point of a trick play reverse pass that was tipped for a 2pt conversion in OT to win a game.

AND the only reason that NFL talent player was even at UM was because of the coaching change at MSU caused him to flip his commit.

That screams fluke run if I ever saw one. Especially since they haven’t done anything like it in the other 6 seasons Hauck’s been back, this year being the closest.

Ok but he did those right? This isn't much different then the gris saying Caden's INT's are fluke. If he keeps doing it over and over again at what point do you acknowledge that its not luck its skill?

Bergens performance wasn't a fluke. It was a fluke that Bobby flipped Bergens commitment AND paired that with just enough 4th & 5th year talent on the lines to squeak through the playoffs.

I don't think theres a single player on the Cats that's as indispensable as Bergen was. Cats lost the best defensive player in FCS at the start of the game last weekend & it didn't matter. Cats could probably be down Jones or Davis & I don't think the offense would lose a step. NDSU builds teams in a similar non-flukey way.

This is a great point that doesn’t get brought up enough.

When it’s brought up that the Griz are getting whipped in the in-state recruiting battle, they point to Bergen, who wouldn’t have been a Griz but for a coaching change.

But they will very quickly highlight that there were mitigating circumstances around Crews.

[TomCat88]

Rob Ash
70-38
3 BSC titles
4 playoffs
2-7 vs UM
0 FCS title game appearances

Bobby Hauck
69-26
1 BSC title
6 playoffs
2-6 vs MSU
1 FCS title game appearance

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

[onceacat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

In fairness, the playoffs has expanded by 4 teams since then and the good teams (other than the DSUs) have all left. So its a significantly more watered down playoff system.

Eh. They got their doors blown off by SHSU twice. Vigen’s 2021 Cats smoked those guys in Texas. His teams were miserable in the postseason.

Well, yeah. Vigens in a different class.

Would Bobby have blown the doors off SHSU on the road? Doubt it.

[GoldstoneCat]

Rob Ash
70-38
3 BSC titles
4 playoffs
2-5 vs UM
0 FCS title game appearances

Bobby Hauck
69-26
1 BSC title
6 playoffs
2-6 vs MSU
1 FCS title game appearance

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

Firing Ash after one losing season, and being willing to acknowledge the bad trend, is the reason we are where we are as a program. I was against the move at the time, and I was wrong.
Montana needs to tread carefully here. They have an old coaching staff and a gimmick defense that can get them beat. Last year was an example of what can happen when the talent slips just a little.
The pressure to fire ash came from right around the program, the boosters, QB club, etc. I don't see that same pressure in Missoula. It happened to Bob Stitt but they are all chummy with Hauck. In today's BSC 8-4 is a bad season at montana or MSU. I think the Griz go 9-3 next year but one slip puts them in that 8 win slot and playing on Thanksgiving. Would such a result crank up the pressure on hauck to take early retirement?

[4KornerKat]

Rob Ash
70-38
3 BSC titles
4 playoffs
2-5 vs UM
0 FCS title game appearances

Bobby Hauck
69-26
1 BSC title
6 playoffs
2-6 vs MSU
1 FCS title game appearance

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

I think Ash was actually 2-7 against um

[91catAlum]

Rob Ash
70-38
3 BSC titles
4 playoffs
2-5 vs UM
0 FCS title game appearances

Bobby Hauck
69-26
1 BSC title
6 playoffs
2-6 vs MSU
1 FCS title game appearance

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

I think Ash was actually 2-7 against um

Correct, Ash had losses in 07-09, 11, 13-15.

[ilovethecats]

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

This is my favorite part. The man is Jesus over there. He’s not leaving until he says he’s leaving. It’s still 2003 over there and things are still perfect. And I’m here for every second of it.

[TomCat88]

Rob Ash
70-38
3 BSC titles
4 playoffs
2-7 vs UM
0 FCS title game appearances

Bobby Hauck
69-26
1 BSC title
6 playoffs
2-6 vs MSU
1 FCS title game appearance

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

I think Ash was actually 2-7 against um

Correct, Ash had losses in 07-09, 11, 13-15.

Yes, 2-7.

[nutman]

Imagine if Ash had replaced Glenn in 2003. I can imagine him doing very well there. That program was a real program. Slowly, it has lost its institutional knowledge and competitive advantage.

[Bobcatsinmso]

Ash got fired, Hauck will never get fired.

This is my favorite part. The man is Jesus over there. He’s not leaving until he says he’s leaving. It’s still 2003 over there and things are still perfect. And I’m here for every second of it.

Not so fast. To be clear half of missoula does not care for BH. I know plenty here who do not support the football teem because of BH. The ones that do are the boosters, and boosters with money. The cracks are starting to show with this group. Haslam does not have the gonads to do anything about it.
Eventually the $$$ will push for the change, and that could very well include the AD. It is just a matter of time, how much time is the question.

[bobcat92]

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

[TomCat88]

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

Critical but he didn’t say that he should be fired.