Carson williams…

[MrGoodKat]

I understand that there’s a lot of money in play, but I really don’t care for RS Fr entering the portal. Seems that they have plenty of time to give to the program that gave them an opportunity and developed them while still being able to cash in.

But I have a lot of contempt for players who want to go public with it while the team is prepping for a championship game. That’s a perfect microcosm of how the portal and NIL have trained players to be motivated only by themselves, with no regard for their team or program.

[wbtfg]

I understand that there’s a lot of money in play, but I really don’t care for RS Fr entering the portal. Seems that they have plenty of time to give to the program that gave them an opportunity and developed them while still being able to cash in.

But I have a lot of contempt for players who want to go public with it while the team is prepping for a championship game. That’s a perfect microcosm of how the portal and NIL have trained players to be motivated only by themselves, with no regard for their team or program.

Its a good thing he didnt…..

[CodyCat]

We’ve benefited more than being hurt by the portal.

[BlueAndGoldNation]

Apparently Zimmer is getting a lot of attention from Big Ten schools. I heard rumors of numbers greater than $1M.

Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s very good.

I think similar to the DBs, he will do wonders with one more year at this level to increase his value. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he balls out next year, gets even better, and puts on even more weight, he'd be getting 1.5 to 2 million offers from actually good P4 schools instead of NW, Rutgers, Michigan State etc...

Zimmer has got NFL potential written all over him. If he miraculously does end up staying all 4 years, then he will be drafted. Easier to standout at this level. Just look at how many NDSU linemen stay all 4 years, now there are 7 of them starting in the NFL making sustainable millions instead of a quick fix. NDSU is able to dominate all of these years because they somehow are able to keep all of their All-American Olinemen year in year out. Imagine our Oline right now if Omar and Connor Moore didn't transfer out. Those two guys were All Conference selections at Mediocre P4 schools this year. They got paid, but they lost their winning ways, and the ability to stand out from the pack.

Omar, despite getting a 1st team all Big12 selection this year, is only projected to go in the 7th round if he is lucky. If he had stayed and destroyed the completion at MSU for 4 years, he would likely have gotten invited to the Senior Bowl, which significantly increases his draft stock to rounds 2-5. Instead, he goes to Baylor, gets decorated with P4 honors, yet he has no Senior Bowl invites, and is overlooked by the NFL scouts to be seen as a possible round 7 or UDFA pickup.

I wonder if these dudes will ever regret their moves in the end. I know Infanse did! Scottre is looking the same way, he is getting washed out at New Mexico. "Instant" money is hard to turn down, but sometimes if your goal is making it to the NFL, your best option is to stick it out at a place you can win, and stand out consistently throughout your whole career. Andersen did it. Hardy did it. And NDSU/SDSU is a perfect example of that model. They keep their guys, they keep winning National Titles, their best dudes get drafted rounds 1-7 year in year out.

I promise you Omar making the 1st team all big-12 means he got more eyes on him than if he had stayed at MSU. There's nothing to indicate he goes to the Senior Bowl if he stays at MSU.

Yeah, of course he has more eyes on him at Baylor. He went up in level of competition, but now his skill is easier to project to NFL levels. You may think that is what NFL scouts want. Yes it is. But you don't have to give them what they want in order to be noticed. Scouts are just as intrigued when players are dominating at lower competition. This forces them to project how they translate to higher competition. That's where scouts make mistakes and tend to overproject and overhype. Omar was dominant as hell at MSU, masking what it would actually look like had he risen his levels of competition. He has been very good at Baylor, but his PFF grades have went way down since being at MSU. Yes, he is 1st team All Big12, he is going to get a chance at the NFL, but he is being projected in the 7th round or UDFA. The scouts that have been following him since MSU have seen his levels dip from absolute domination, to very good. Sadly, "Very good" is easy to blend in with the pack in the P4...

The NDSU model has been simple. Their best players stay, they dominate the FCS level, they get 2-3 Time All American honors, and grade so high in PFF grades that it makes it almost mandatory for them to be invited to the Senior Bowl or Shrine Bowl. Those guys make it to those bowls, and they perform well, even further increasing their draft stock. They get drafted anywhere between rounds 1-7. You can't argue with their model, it has worked for over a decade! It may sound crazy, but they actually put more guys in the NFL than half of the P4 schools have the last 10 years. That is why they can hang on to most of their talent. They can tell their players they are more likely to get drafted if they stick around and dominate than if they were to move up and blend in.

I can't blame anyone for leaving for millions of dollars. That's life changing money for anyone, especially in college. There is no denying that NIL is throwing a wrench into us trying to become more retention freindly like NDSU has been. I forsee even NDSU will be hard pressed to keep their players from leaving if $2 million is being thrown their way! Oh well, tis the way of the future! I know we will be fine going into the future. Just imagine if we were able to keep all of our guys throughout the years. If we had Omar and Valdez last year, do you think we win the Natty over NDSU? My bet is yes!

[coloradocat]

We’ve benefited more than being hurt by the portal.

And yet I bet most of us would prefer it didn't exist.

[catatac]

Apparently Zimmer is getting a lot of attention from Big Ten schools. I heard rumors of numbers greater than $1M.

Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s very good.

I think similar to the DBs, he will do wonders with one more year at this level to increase his value. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he balls out next year, gets even better, and puts on even more weight, he'd be getting 1.5 to 2 million offers from actually good P4 schools instead of NW, Rutgers, Michigan State etc...

Zimmer has got NFL potential written all over him. If he miraculously does end up staying all 4 years, then he will be drafted. Easier to standout at this level. Just look at how many NDSU linemen stay all 4 years, now there are 7 of them starting in the NFL making sustainable millions instead of a quick fix. NDSU is able to dominate all of these years because they somehow are able to keep all of their All-American Olinemen year in year out. Imagine our Oline right now if Omar and Connor Moore didn't transfer out. Those two guys were All Conference selections at Mediocre P4 schools this year. They got paid, but they lost their winning ways, and the ability to stand out from the pack.

Omar, despite getting a 1st team all Big12 selection this year, is only projected to go in the 7th round if he is lucky. If he had stayed and destroyed the completion at MSU for 4 years, he would likely have gotten invited to the Senior Bowl, which significantly increases his draft stock to rounds 2-5. Instead, he goes to Baylor, gets decorated with P4 honors, yet he has no Senior Bowl invites, and is overlooked by the NFL scouts to be seen as a possible round 7 or UDFA pickup.

I wonder if these dudes will ever regret their moves in the end. I know Infanse did! Scottre is looking the same way, he is getting washed out at New Mexico. "Instant" money is hard to turn down, but sometimes if your goal is making it to the NFL, your best option is to stick it out at a place you can win, and stand out consistently throughout your whole career. Andersen did it. Hardy did it. And NDSU/SDSU is a perfect example of that model. They keep their guys, they keep winning National Titles, their best dudes get drafted rounds 1-7 year in year out.

I promise you Omar making the 1st team all big-12 means he got more eyes on him than if he had stayed at MSU. There's nothing to indicate he goes to the Senior Bowl if he stays at MSU.

Yeah, of course he has more eyes on him at Baylor. He went up in level of competition, but now his skill is easier to project to NFL levels. You may think that is what NFL scouts want. Yes it is. But you don't have to give them what they want in order to be noticed. Scouts are just as intrigued when players are dominating at lower competition. This forces them to project how they translate to higher competition. That's where scouts make mistakes and tend to overproject and overhype. Omar was dominant as hell at MSU, masking what it would actually look like had he risen his levels of competition. He has been very good at Baylor, but his PFF grades have went way down since being at MSU. Yes, he is 1st team All Big12, he is going to get a chance at the NFL, but he is being projected in the 7th round or UDFA. The scouts that have been following him since MSU have seen his levels dip from absolute domination, to very good. Sadly, "Very good" is easy to blend in with the pack in the P4...

The NDSU model has been simple. Their best players stay, they dominate the FCS level, they get 2-3 Time All American honors, and grade so high in PFF grades that it makes it almost mandatory for them to be invited to the Senior Bowl or Shrine Bowl. Those guys make it to those bowls, and they perform well, even further increasing their draft stock. They get drafted anywhere between rounds 1-7. You can't argue with their model, it has worked for over a decade! It may sound crazy, but they actually put more guys in the NFL than half of the P4 schools have the last 10 years. That is why they can hang on to most of their talent. They can tell their players they are more likely to get drafted if they stick around and dominate than if they were to move up and blend in.

I can't blame anyone for leaving for millions of dollars. That's life changing money for anyone, especially in college. There is no denying that NIL is throwing a wrench into us trying to become more retention freindly like NDSU has been. I forsee even NDSU will be hard pressed to keep their players from leaving if $2 million is being thrown their way! Oh well, tis the way of the future! I know we will be fine going into the future. Just imagine if we were able to keep all of our guys throughout the years. If we had Omar and Valdez last year, do you think we win the Natty over NDSU? My bet is yes!

Good post, but one thing you might be missing here is there is more to it than the NDSU coaches doing a sell job on the OL players and convincing them they're more likely to get drafted if they stick with NDSU. NDSU also pays them a lot more than any other FCS schools, from what I've been told.

[WetBreeches]

Apparently Zimmer is getting a lot of attention from Big Ten schools. I heard rumors of numbers greater than $1M.

Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s very good.

I think similar to the DBs, he will do wonders with one more year at this level to increase his value. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he balls out next year, gets even better, and puts on even more weight, he'd be getting 1.5 to 2 million offers from actually good P4 schools instead of NW, Rutgers, Michigan State etc...

Zimmer has got NFL potential written all over him. If he miraculously does end up staying all 4 years, then he will be drafted. Easier to standout at this level. Just look at how many NDSU linemen stay all 4 years, now there are 7 of them starting in the NFL making sustainable millions instead of a quick fix. NDSU is able to dominate all of these years because they somehow are able to keep all of their All-American Olinemen year in year out. Imagine our Oline right now if Omar and Connor Moore didn't transfer out. Those two guys were All Conference selections at Mediocre P4 schools this year. They got paid, but they lost their winning ways, and the ability to stand out from the pack.

Omar, despite getting a 1st team all Big12 selection this year, is only projected to go in the 7th round if he is lucky. If he had stayed and destroyed the completion at MSU for 4 years, he would likely have gotten invited to the Senior Bowl, which significantly increases his draft stock to rounds 2-5. Instead, he goes to Baylor, gets decorated with P4 honors, yet he has no Senior Bowl invites, and is overlooked by the NFL scouts to be seen as a possible round 7 or UDFA pickup.

I wonder if these dudes will ever regret their moves in the end. I know Infanse did! Scottre is looking the same way, he is getting washed out at New Mexico. "Instant" money is hard to turn down, but sometimes if your goal is making it to the NFL, your best option is to stick it out at a place you can win, and stand out consistently throughout your whole career. Andersen did it. Hardy did it. And NDSU/SDSU is a perfect example of that model. They keep their guys, they keep winning National Titles, their best dudes get drafted rounds 1-7 year in year out.

I promise you Omar making the 1st team all big-12 means he got more eyes on him than if he had stayed at MSU. There's nothing to indicate he goes to the Senior Bowl if he stays at MSU.

Yeah, of course he has more eyes on him at Baylor. He went up in level of competition, but now his skill is easier to project to NFL levels. You may think that is what NFL scouts want. Yes it is. But you don't have to give them what they want in order to be noticed. Scouts are just as intrigued when players are dominating at lower competition. This forces them to project how they translate to higher competition. That's where scouts make mistakes and tend to overproject and overhype. Omar was dominant as hell at MSU, masking what it would actually look like had he risen his levels of competition. He has been very good at Baylor, but his PFF grades have went way down since being at MSU. Yes, he is 1st team All Big12, he is going to get a chance at the NFL, but he is being projected in the 7th round or UDFA. The scouts that have been following him since MSU have seen his levels dip from absolute domination, to very good. Sadly, "Very good" is easy to blend in with the pack in the P4...

The NDSU model has been simple. Their best players stay, they dominate the FCS level, they get 2-3 Time All American honors, and grade so high in PFF grades that it makes it almost mandatory for them to be invited to the Senior Bowl or Shrine Bowl. Those guys make it to those bowls, and they perform well, even further increasing their draft stock. They get drafted anywhere between rounds 1-7. You can't argue with their model, it has worked for over a decade! It may sound crazy, but they actually put more guys in the NFL than half of the P4 schools have the last 10 years. That is why they can hang on to most of their talent. They can tell their players they are more likely to get drafted if they stick around and dominate than if they were to move up and blend in.

I can't blame anyone for leaving for millions of dollars. That's life changing money for anyone, especially in college. There is no denying that NIL is throwing a wrench into us trying to become more retention freindly like NDSU has been. I forsee even NDSU will be hard pressed to keep their players from leaving if $2 million is being thrown their way! Oh well, tis the way of the future! I know we will be fine going into the future. Just imagine if we were able to keep all of our guys throughout the years. If we had Omar and Valdez last year, do you think we win the Natty over NDSU? My bet is yes!

I understand your perspective the "NDSU model" gets guys into the NFL...but level of analysis in NFL draft reports is insane. The number of players and volume of film NFL scouts have seen and watched is insane. To think the wool can consistently be pulled over their eyes by staying at a lower level is somewhat comical and the fact is, NDSU guys stick in the NFL...so my guess would be it has more to do with the player than the strategy of staying at NDSU and dominating the talent, getting "noticed", inflated PFF grades, etc. NDSU certainly knows how to recruit and develop talent like no other FCS program and they definitely have a positive self reinforcing system in place (Go to NDSU -> Develop and stay -> Go to NFL). But to say the only difference between Omar and Grey Zabel, Cody Mauch, Cordell Volson, and Dillon Radunz is dominating the FCS, to me, is misguided.

[MrGoodKat]

I understand that there’s a lot of money in play, but I really don’t care for RS Fr entering the portal. Seems that they have plenty of time to give to the program that gave them an opportunity and developed them while still being able to cash in.

But I have a lot of contempt for players who want to go public with it while the team is prepping for a championship game. That’s a perfect microcosm of how the portal and NIL have trained players to be motivated only by themselves, with no regard for their team or program.

Its a good thing he didnt…..

Obviously he did. That’s why we’re talking about this.

[WalkOn79]

I know it’s unrealistic….. but man, can you imagine this secondary staying in tact for the next 3 years….

It would be unreal.

That is what I miss the most about the “old days”, seeing really good freshman and sophomores come around and know you have several years to watch them dominate.

It Is what it is though, the good news is that vigen has proven he can rebuild/reload each season no matter what happens in the portal.

Caden and JJ will be back, and we'll keep some of them and recruit and develop others. Not worried about our secondary in the least.

[catatac]

I know it’s unrealistic….. but man, can you imagine this secondary staying in tact for the next 3 years….

It would be unreal.

That is what I miss the most about the “old days”, seeing really good freshman and sophomores come around and know you have several years to watch them dominate.

It Is what it is though, the good news is that vigen has proven he can rebuild/reload each season no matter what happens in the portal.

Caden and JJ will be back, and we'll keep some of them and recruit and develop others. Not worried about our secondary in the least.

Since this thread has morphed into more than just Carson Williams discussion, somebody asked me a great question the other day and I had no idea. They asked me how much a player like Taco Dowler makes, playing football for the Cats. Does anyone on here have any clue? 50K? 100K?

[coloradocat]

I know it’s unrealistic….. but man, can you imagine this secondary staying in tact for the next 3 years….

It would be unreal.

That is what I miss the most about the “old days”, seeing really good freshman and sophomores come around and know you have several years to watch them dominate.

It Is what it is though, the good news is that vigen has proven he can rebuild/reload each season no matter what happens in the portal.

Caden and JJ will be back, and we'll keep some of them and recruit and develop others. Not worried about our secondary in the least.

Since this thread has morphed into more than just Carson Williams discussion, somebody asked me a great question the other day and I had no idea. They asked me how much a player like Taco Dowler makes, playing football for the Cats. Does anyone on here have any clue? 50K? 100K?

I think someone on here in the past hinted that you should be adding a zero to those numbers.

[ZebraCat]

I know it’s unrealistic….. but man, can you imagine this secondary staying in tact for the next 3 years….

It would be unreal.

That is what I miss the most about the “old days”, seeing really good freshman and sophomores come around and know you have several years to watch them dominate.

It Is what it is though, the good news is that vigen has proven he can rebuild/reload each season no matter what happens in the portal.

Caden and JJ will be back, and we'll keep some of them and recruit and develop others. Not worried about our secondary in the least.

Since this thread has morphed into more than just Carson Williams discussion, somebody asked me a great question the other day and I had no idea. They asked me how much a player like Taco Dowler makes, playing football for the Cats. Does anyone on here have any clue? 50K? 100K?

I think someone on here in the past hinted that you should be adding a zero to those numbers.

Playing for the Cats? Not a chance. Offers from other schools, yes.

[coloradocat]

I know it’s unrealistic….. but man, can you imagine this secondary staying in tact for the next 3 years….

It would be unreal.

That is what I miss the most about the “old days”, seeing really good freshman and sophomores come around and know you have several years to watch them dominate.

It Is what it is though, the good news is that vigen has proven he can rebuild/reload each season no matter what happens in the portal.

Caden and JJ will be back, and we'll keep some of them and recruit and develop others. Not worried about our secondary in the least.

Since this thread has morphed into more than just Carson Williams discussion, somebody asked me a great question the other day and I had no idea. They asked me how much a player like Taco Dowler makes, playing football for the Cats. Does anyone on here have any clue? 50K? 100K?

I think someone on here in the past hinted that you should be adding a zero to those numbers.

Playing for the Cats? Not a chance. Offers from other schools, yes.

I could be wrong but I thought I heard or read that. Someone on here can probably clear it up.

[CodyCat]

I’d be beyond shocked if anyone for the Cats is making over a million. Honestly, I’d be shocked if anyone is making more than $50k.

[bpcats20]

Big picture - our school will always have to be about recruiting talented high school kids and development. I fully expect our secondary to be getting offers.

One big issue an it played out I believe last year - the distraction and timing of portal took away from championship game focus and prep.

Hopefully in this regard the coaching staff and players realize what an opportunity they have in front of them . I guarantee you Eastern Illinois will be coming in guns a blazing

[coloradocat]

Big picture - our school will always have to be about recruiting talented high school kids and development. I fully expect our secondary to be getting offers.

One big issue an it played out I believe last year - the distraction and timing of portal took away from championship game focus and prep.

Hopefully in this regard the coaching staff and players realize what an opportunity they have in front of them . I guarantee you Eastern Illinois will be coming in guns a blazing

One Illinois team will be enough for us, we don't need to face two of them.

[MSU01]

Big picture - our school will always have to be about recruiting talented high school kids and development. I fully expect our secondary to be getting offers.

One big issue an it played out I believe last year - the distraction and timing of portal took away from championship game focus and prep.

Hopefully in this regard the coaching staff and players realize what an opportunity they have in front of them . I guarantee you Eastern Illinois will be coming in guns a blazing

One Illinois team will be enough for us, we don't need to face two of them.

Although if Eastern Illinois shows up instead of Illinois State we'll be in very good shape to finally get that win in the championship game!

[SLC_Cat]

The Illini are playing in Music City Bowl... Maybe they can stick around for a game too

[AFCAT]

I’d be beyond shocked if anyone for the Cats is making over a million. Honestly, I’d be shocked if anyone is making more than $50k.

Last I heard, the MSU nil budget was somewhere around 1-2 million a year. Yeah, no one person is getting all the cash. That money doesn’t include athlete endorsements, donated cars, etc.

[onceacat]

Apparently Zimmer is getting a lot of attention from Big Ten schools. I heard rumors of numbers greater than $1M.

Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s very good.

I think similar to the DBs, he will do wonders with one more year at this level to increase his value. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he balls out next year, gets even better, and puts on even more weight, he'd be getting 1.5 to 2 million offers from actually good P4 schools instead of NW, Rutgers, Michigan State etc...

Zimmer has got NFL potential written all over him. If he miraculously does end up staying all 4 years, then he will be drafted. Easier to standout at this level. Just look at how many NDSU linemen stay all 4 years, now there are 7 of them starting in the NFL making sustainable millions instead of a quick fix. NDSU is able to dominate all of these years because they somehow are able to keep all of their All-American Olinemen year in year out. Imagine our Oline right now if Omar and Connor Moore didn't transfer out. Those two guys were All Conference selections at Mediocre P4 schools this year. They got paid, but they lost their winning ways, and the ability to stand out from the pack.

Omar, despite getting a 1st team all Big12 selection this year, is only projected to go in the 7th round if he is lucky. If he had stayed and destroyed the completion at MSU for 4 years, he would likely have gotten invited to the Senior Bowl, which significantly increases his draft stock to rounds 2-5. Instead, he goes to Baylor, gets decorated with P4 honors, yet he has no Senior Bowl invites, and is overlooked by the NFL scouts to be seen as a possible round 7 or UDFA pickup.

I wonder if these dudes will ever regret their moves in the end. I know Infanse did! Scottre is looking the same way, he is getting washed out at New Mexico. "Instant" money is hard to turn down, but sometimes if your goal is making it to the NFL, your best option is to stick it out at a place you can win, and stand out consistently throughout your whole career. Andersen did it. Hardy did it. And NDSU/SDSU is a perfect example of that model. They keep their guys, they keep winning National Titles, their best dudes get drafted rounds 1-7 year in year out.

I promise you Omar making the 1st team all big-12 means he got more eyes on him than if he had stayed at MSU. There's nothing to indicate he goes to the Senior Bowl if he stays at MSU.

Yeah, of course he has more eyes on him at Baylor. He went up in level of competition, but now his skill is easier to project to NFL levels. You may think that is what NFL scouts want. Yes it is. But you don't have to give them what they want in order to be noticed. Scouts are just as intrigued when players are dominating at lower competition. This forces them to project how they translate to higher competition. That's where scouts make mistakes and tend to overproject and overhype. Omar was dominant as hell at MSU, masking what it would actually look like had he risen his levels of competition. He has been very good at Baylor, but his PFF grades have went way down since being at MSU. Yes, he is 1st team All Big12, he is going to get a chance at the NFL, but he is being projected in the 7th round or UDFA. The scouts that have been following him since MSU have seen his levels dip from absolute domination, to very good. Sadly, "Very good" is easy to blend in with the pack in the P4...

The NDSU model has been simple. Their best players stay, they dominate the FCS level, they get 2-3 Time All American honors, and grade so high in PFF grades that it makes it almost mandatory for them to be invited to the Senior Bowl or Shrine Bowl. Those guys make it to those bowls, and they perform well, even further increasing their draft stock. They get drafted anywhere between rounds 1-7. You can't argue with their model, it has worked for over a decade! It may sound crazy, but they actually put more guys in the NFL than half of the P4 schools have the last 10 years. That is why they can hang on to most of their talent. They can tell their players they are more likely to get drafted if they stick around and dominate than if they were to move up and blend in.

I can't blame anyone for leaving for millions of dollars. That's life changing money for anyone, especially in college. There is no denying that NIL is throwing a wrench into us trying to become more retention freindly like NDSU has been. I forsee even NDSU will be hard pressed to keep their players from leaving if $2 million is being thrown their way! Oh well, tis the way of the future! I know we will be fine going into the future. Just imagine if we were able to keep all of our guys throughout the years. If we had Omar and Valdez last year, do you think we win the Natty over NDSU? My bet is yes!

Do we have any actual confirmation that anyone transferring out of MSU is getting these sort of offers? $1m+ for an offensive lineman seems like a big outlier, even for top tier SEC or Big 10 teams.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -transfers