Loyalty and Legacy

[nanacat]

"No place I'd rather be"

"Who said I was leaving?"

"No place like home"

"When you locked in you don't look for greener grass, you water yours"

What causes someone to be loyal? Many posters on this forum poo pooed the idea of loyalty on previous posts about the portal and/or coaches moving on, commenting on "life changing" money having more value than loyalty and commitment. Not to dis those who have bet on themselves and moved on, but if Taco really was offered 7 figures, why didn't he jump at that? I'm certain there are others who've recently chosen loyalty over the promise of a payday, why? Did they decide loyalty has more value? Did they decide to seek Legacy over quick cash? Were they advised that playing the long game, like either Mike Rider or JP Flynn suggested (can't recall which), has more value? Certainly the majority are from Montana, so I'm sure that plays a role - family connections, having always wanted to be a Bobcat, wanting to break records, be in the hall of fame, etc., but what about guys like Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr? I'm guessing they got offers too and yet they stayed. Loyalty and commitment are admirable character traits. Sometimes there's more to life than chasing the almighty dollar. These young men who've decided to stay, despite the offers they had, are inspiring. Like JP Flynn said, any goal they may have can be accomplished at MSU now. That's worth knowing and promoting. Will playing for Iowa State, Indiana, UCLA, Cal, WSU gain more attention from NFL scouts than playing for MSU? Not anymore. GO CATS!

[kwcat]

Well said!

[VimSince03]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

[MSU01]

MSU was just led to a National Championship by a quarterback who entered the transfer portal not once, not twice, but three times before ending up in Bozeman and finding the situation that was best for him. Loyalty is great, but sometimes it's also the right decision for someone like Justin Lamson to make a change in order to find the right situation at the right time. Each player will have different reasons for making the decisions he does, and we'd all do well to remember that football much like life is not a one size fits all experience. Cheer on the players who stay (and the ones who come to MSU from elsewhere) and respect the decisions of the ones who leave, it isn't that complicated. It's best for the program when all Bobcats succeed, both current and former.

[kwcat]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

So what would we call the few that stayed this year with the offers they had?

[AFCAT]

MSU was just led to a National Championship by a quarterback who entered the transfer portal not once, not twice, but three times before ending up in Bozeman and finding the situation that was best for him. Loyalty is great, but sometimes it's also the right decision for someone like Justin Lamson to make a change in order to find the right situation at the right time. Each player will have different reasons for making the decisions he does, and we'd all do well to remember that football much like life is not a one size fits all experience. Cheer on the players who stay (and the ones who come to MSU from elsewhere) and respect the decisions of the ones who leave, it isn't that complicated. It's best for the program when all Bobcats succeed, both current and former.

He was also offered significant money after the season (or probably during the season) by FBS power four schools and decided to remain at MSU instead. He definitely found a home here.

[Bobcat4Ever]

MSU was just led to a National Championship by a quarterback who entered the transfer portal not once, not twice, but three times before ending up in Bozeman and finding the situation that was best for him. Loyalty is great, but sometimes it's also the right decision for someone like Justin Lamson to make a change in order to find the right situation at the right time. Each player will have different reasons for making the decisions he does, and we'd all do well to remember that football much like life is not a one size fits all experience. Cheer on the players who stay (and the ones who come to MSU from elsewhere) and respect the decisions of the ones who leave, it isn't that complicated. It's best for the program when all Bobcats succeed, both current and former.

He was also offered significant money after the season (or probably during the season) by FBS power four schools and decided to remain at MSU instead. He definitely found a home here.

Loyalty (and need) go both ways. Justin was pretty much pushed aside by circumstance by both Syracuse and Stanford. They seem not to have missed him — we would have. Big difference. He finally found a home here with an open door.

[lutecat]

Loyalty is awesome. I've been loyal to the same company for the last 25 years. I like where I'm at and I like the people I work for. Some of us are built to want constant change. Some of us are built to want security. Some of us thrive off challenge and sometimes we can find that challenge in a place of security. Because make no mistake, winning back to back is a challenge these guys have committed to.

Noone is wrong. Noone is right. I both insanely appreciate those who stay here and greatly admire those moving on to a new challenge. I'll cheer on both.

Sure move on for money only and I can't fault them for it. But truthfully, with the program we have, I feel like most if not all that move all, this was always the plan. Play at an awesome program while gaining experience you wouldn't get whole on the bench at a bigger school.

Amd here's something to give everyone perspective. Alex Singleton has even said, as a kid from California, if he was offered a big NIL, he doesnt graduate from MSU. Not anything to do with his experience here. Just being real.

[VimSince03]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

So what would we call the few that stayed this year with the offers they had?

A mix of legacy and loyalty for sure. But for some its simply not yet receiving the right opportunity for them. For some of the lesser profile ones that stayed, you better believe G6 offers with NIL were out there just like last year...but only this year those players stayed, waiting to prove themselves for the bigger P4 offer if they ball out next year. Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr are perfect examples (maybe even Taki) as I assume they were in these situations. This is where Vigen is winning this battle along with our collective. If they keep Brent in the loop, he can call B/S on certain opportunities offered to these kids now that their is data/trends out there on how these things go.

My question to the board: what is more loyal? Staying with the Bobcats for another year because of the team OR taking a NIL offer so you can help your family get out of their current living situation to make their life a little better while you still get an education? Because we've had several players over the past three years in this exact scenario. Loyalty to the team or loyalty to your family...that is what some of these kids deal with.

[the_cats_meow]

These offers that some get may sound great as well to start until you dig into some of the details. It’s like I told my buddies, I could offer any of you a million dollar salary. But it’s tied to milestones like being employee of the month every month, making the company 100M dollars, and never miss a day of work for anything. You hit those three, here is your million dollars. You don’t hit all of them, here is 50k. I have to imagine there are possibly some difficult or unrealistic goals some of these NIL deals require to get that full amount and is why some may decide to stay than chase that 7 figure amount. All offers are different and probably ask for different things so every player’s decision will be different.

[tetoncat]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

So what would we call the few that stayed this year with the offers they had?

A mix of legacy and loyalty for sure. But for some its simply not yet receiving the right opportunity for them. For some of the lesser profile ones that stayed, you better believe G6 offers with NIL were out there just like last year...but only this year those players stayed, waiting to prove themselves for the bigger P4 offer if they ball out next year. Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr are perfect examples (maybe even Taki) as I assume they were in these situations. This is where Vigen is winning this battle along with our collective. If they keep Brent in the loop, he can call B/S on certain opportunities offered to these kids now that their is data/trends out there on how these things go.

My question to the board: what is more loyal? Staying with the Bobcats for another year because of the team OR taking a NIL offer so you can help your family get out of their current living situation to make their life a little better while you still get an education? Because we've had several players over the past three years in this exact scenario. Loyalty to the team or loyalty to your family...that is what some of these kids deal with.

I understand and agree with all the points you make. 5 years from now if nothing changes in the structure there are probably not these discussions from fans as we adapt to the environment.
The transfers I don't understand are starters going from Top FCS to mid level FCS or low level FBS. Offers can't be much different, competition similar. So then it gets into the cultures and pedigree of programs. Maybe a backup wants more playing time, but a starter?

[tdub]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

So what would we call the few that stayed this year with the offers they had?

A mix of legacy and loyalty for sure. But for some its simply not yet receiving the right opportunity for them. For some of the lesser profile ones that stayed, you better believe G6 offers with NIL were out there just like last year...but only this year those players stayed, waiting to prove themselves for the bigger P4 offer if they ball out next year. Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr are perfect examples (maybe even Taki) as I assume they were in these situations. This is where Vigen is winning this battle along with our collective. If they keep Brent in the loop, he can call B/S on certain opportunities offered to these kids now that their is data/trends out there on how these things go.

My question to the board: what is more loyal? Staying with the Bobcats for another year because of the team OR taking a NIL offer so you can help your family get out of their current living situation to make their life a little better while you still get an education? Because we've had several players over the past three years in this exact scenario. Loyalty to the team or loyalty to your family...that is what some of these kids deal with.

Such a fantastic point about being loyal to family. Not only current family, but the future family with a wife and children. For so many people, a few hundred thousand is life-altering money. I could not imagine starting my adult life with no debt, and plenty of money to start to buy a home, invest, etc….

As fans, wanting a player’s loyalty to the program can be a very selfish thing. We want them to be loyal for our benefit. We want to have the best program so we can feel success. Us clamoring about players being loyal is about our own feeling of success, and not theirs. And I’m 100% included in that.

So that is where I don’t judge on a kid looking to better a situation for themselves. They are people first and football players second (or 3rd or 4th…). With that in mind, so many times the best situation for themselves is exactly where they are now and the allure of greener grass lures them away and that grass isn’t green at all. I don’t envy these kids in terms of what they have to navigate.

[nanacat]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

So what would we call the few that stayed this year with the offers they had?

A mix of legacy and loyalty for sure. But for some its simply not yet receiving the right opportunity for them. For some of the lesser profile ones that stayed, you better believe G6 offers with NIL were out there just like last year...but only this year those players stayed, waiting to prove themselves for the bigger P4 offer if they ball out next year. Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr are perfect examples (maybe even Taki) as I assume they were in these situations. This is where Vigen is winning this battle along with our collective. If they keep Brent in the loop, he can call B/S on certain opportunities offered to these kids now that their is data/trends out there on how these things go.

My question to the board: what is more loyal? Staying with the Bobcats for another year because of the team OR taking a NIL offer so you can help your family get out of their current living situation to make their life a little better while you still get an education? Because we've had several players over the past three years in this exact scenario. Loyalty to the team or loyalty to your family...that is what some of these kids deal with.

Such a fantastic point about being loyal to family. Not only current family, but the future family with a wife and children. For so many people, a few hundred thousand is life-altering money. I could not imagine starting my adult life with no debt, and plenty of money to start to buy a home, invest, etc….

As fans, wanting a player’s loyalty to the program can be a very selfish thing. We want them to be loyal for our benefit. We want to have the best program so we can feel success. Us clamoring about players being loyal is about our own feeling of success, and not theirs. And I’m 100% included in that.

So that is where I don’t judge on a kid looking to better a situation for themselves. They are people first and football players second (or 3rd or 4th…). With that in mind, so many times the best situation for themselves is exactly where they are now and the allure of greener grass lures them away and that grass isn’t green at all. I don’t envy these kids in terms of what they have to navigate.

I agree with both you and Vim. I don't pretend to know these player's situations at all. Family loyalty should ALWAYS be a priority, and if these players are needing to transfer up for $$ to help a loved one, more power to them! I do know that Tayden Gray just became a dad before Christmas and maybe his family loyalty played a role in him staying put, not wanting to uproot his family for a chance when he knows what he has here? I bolded your sentence above because in this day and age of instant gratification, the grass may look greener and it's simply not. I appreciate that Vigen and Co. may not have been prepared last year for how this portal thing should be navigated, this year they are, and I'm sure that plays a big role in those we've retained, and that's awesome!

[technoCat]

Every kid's situation is different and I have no problem respecting their decision to leave. JP also said it would've been dumb if a kid like Conner Moore stayed. Legacy is great but.... loyalty has kind of been bastardized by the college football system for years and coaches were the primary abusers. Now kids get a system that provides them with more choices and it's up to the coaches to adapt or retire. Luckily we have one of the best in the business in Coach Vigen who did a great job of both guiding the players that transferred and retaining the core group for another year.

So what would we call the few that stayed this year with the offers they had?

A mix of legacy and loyalty for sure. But for some its simply not yet receiving the right opportunity for them. For some of the lesser profile ones that stayed, you better believe G6 offers with NIL were out there just like last year...but only this year those players stayed, waiting to prove themselves for the bigger P4 offer if they ball out next year. Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr are perfect examples (maybe even Taki) as I assume they were in these situations. This is where Vigen is winning this battle along with our collective. If they keep Brent in the loop, he can call B/S on certain opportunities offered to these kids now that their is data/trends out there on how these things go.

My question to the board: what is more loyal? Staying with the Bobcats for another year because of the team OR taking a NIL offer so you can help your family get out of their current living situation to make their life a little better while you still get an education? Because we've had several players over the past three years in this exact scenario. Loyalty to the team or loyalty to your family...that is what some of these kids deal with.

Such a fantastic point about being loyal to family. Not only current family, but the future family with a wife and children. For so many people, a few hundred thousand is life-altering money. I could not imagine starting my adult life with no debt, and plenty of money to start to buy a home, invest, etc….

As fans, wanting a player’s loyalty to the program can be a very selfish thing. We want them to be loyal for our benefit. We want to have the best program so we can feel success. Us clamoring about players being loyal is about our own feeling of success, and not theirs. And I’m 100% included in that.

So that is where I don’t judge on a kid looking to better a situation for themselves. They are people first and football players second (or 3rd or 4th…). With that in mind, so many times the best situation for themselves is exactly where they are now and the allure of greener grass lures them away and that grass isn’t green at all. I don’t envy these kids in terms of what they have to navigate.

My favorite part of college sports is feeling like I get to know the players, see their journey and have a connection with them. That's just way harder to do when you only get to see them for a year. Its why I've pretty much lost all interest in professional sports and even college bball to some extent. I'd never begrudge anyone doing what they want/need to do with their lives but that doesn't mean I have to stay invested or interested.

[nanacat]

The other point I intended to make in my original post had to do with opportunity, and I only touched on it at the end. Yes, JP did speak of Connor Moore and he was right. But he also spoke of opportunity being just as good at MSU for future goals related to the NFL, though I can't recall exactly how he said it. If leaving is about $$ that's one thing. If it's about fit and opportunity, well that's a different story. Fit I get, not everyone loves Montana, I know, weird right? Haha but it just doesn't fit everyone and some just hate to be cold so many months out of a year. But opportunity, I just think MSU has positioned itself to draw just as much attention to players as many FBS schools. I mean over 3 million watched the natty! I think the NFL really started paying attention to Troy, which helped several others make the league, Hardy and Okada specifically. Tommy obviously got his shot. And hopefully guys like Brott and Davis will get a look based on MSU's success. Guess we'll see. But to say a player needs to leave to get better opportunities, I'm just not sure I agree.

[MountainCat]

There have been a ton of great points made on this post. For some there’s personal loyalty needs, for some financial need, for some their needs are life obligations like family.

Considering also, the “loyalty” that we as fans are referring to may simply be a timing issue. It’s becoming glaringly obvious that Montana State players are getting a lot of publicity. Some of these players may also be looking at it from a viewpoint of building on the success of players with or before them. Play at a high level, be viewed at a high level, increase your personal stock at a high level for next year, or the year beyond. Maybe some of what we fans view as loyalty could be some of these players working toward increasing their personal stock with increased play and more visibility to increase their value when a bigger opportunity presents itself. In most all of these scenarios whether it’s loyalty to home, MSU, teammates and coaches, increased visibility on a smaller stage and preparing for a bigger stage, financial incentive, or any other reason, we as Montana State fans win by having these student athletes for as long as we have them.

[catatac]

"No place I'd rather be"

"Who said I was leaving?"

"No place like home"

"When you locked in you don't look for greener grass, you water yours"

What causes someone to be loyal? Many posters on this forum poo pooed the idea of loyalty on previous posts about the portal and/or coaches moving on, commenting on "life changing" money having more value than loyalty and commitment. Not to dis those who have bet on themselves and moved on, but if Taco really was offered 7 figures, why didn't he jump at that? I'm certain there are others who've recently chosen loyalty over the promise of a payday, why? Did they decide loyalty has more value? Did they decide to seek Legacy over quick cash? Were they advised that playing the long game, like either Mike Rider or JP Flynn suggested (can't recall which), has more value? Certainly the majority are from Montana, so I'm sure that plays a role - family connections, having always wanted to be a Bobcat, wanting to break records, be in the hall of fame, etc., but what about guys like Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr? I'm guessing they got offers too and yet they stayed. Loyalty and commitment are admirable character traits. Sometimes there's more to life than chasing the almighty dollar. These young men who've decided to stay, despite the offers they had, are inspiring. Like JP Flynn said, any goal they may have can be accomplished at MSU now. That's worth knowing and promoting. Will playing for Iowa State, Indiana, UCLA, Cal, WSU gain more attention from NFL scouts than playing for MSU? Not anymore. GO CATS!

Those are the million dollar questions (no pun intended ) aren't they! As others have said, each player situation is different. I'm always in the camp that unless it is a crazy amount of guaranteed money... stay put and see how things play out. If it's instant payday, that's one thing and I totally am OK with that. If it's just moving up to FBS for a little more money, and thinking the that creates a better path to the NFL I would re think that. Troy Andersen got drafted in the 2nd round. They will find you, and in fact you will get noticed more if you're a standout on the MSU Bobcats versus maybe just playing for a UCLA for example. Regarding Lamson, somebody on here posted that he "isn't an NFL QB". We'll see about that.

[AFCAT]

"No place I'd rather be"

"Who said I was leaving?"

"No place like home"

"When you locked in you don't look for greener grass, you water yours"

What causes someone to be loyal? Many posters on this forum poo pooed the idea of loyalty on previous posts about the portal and/or coaches moving on, commenting on "life changing" money having more value than loyalty and commitment. Not to dis those who have bet on themselves and moved on, but if Taco really was offered 7 figures, why didn't he jump at that? I'm certain there are others who've recently chosen loyalty over the promise of a payday, why? Did they decide loyalty has more value? Did they decide to seek Legacy over quick cash? Were they advised that playing the long game, like either Mike Rider or JP Flynn suggested (can't recall which), has more value? Certainly the majority are from Montana, so I'm sure that plays a role - family connections, having always wanted to be a Bobcat, wanting to break records, be in the hall of fame, etc., but what about guys like Tayden Gray and Takhari Carr? I'm guessing they got offers too and yet they stayed. Loyalty and commitment are admirable character traits. Sometimes there's more to life than chasing the almighty dollar. These young men who've decided to stay, despite the offers they had, are inspiring. Like JP Flynn said, any goal they may have can be accomplished at MSU now. That's worth knowing and promoting. Will playing for Iowa State, Indiana, UCLA, Cal, WSU gain more attention from NFL scouts than playing for MSU? Not anymore. GO CATS!

Those are the million dollar questions (no pun intended ) aren't they! As others have said, each player situation is different. I'm always in the camp that unless it is a crazy amount of guaranteed money... stay put and see how things play out. If it's instant payday, that's one thing and I totally am OK with that. If it's just moving up to FBS for a little more money, and thinking the that creates a better path to the NFL I would re think that. Troy Andersen got drafted in the 2nd round. They will find you, and in fact you will get noticed more if you're a standout on the MSU Bobcats versus maybe just playing for a UCLA for example. Regarding Lamson, somebody on here posted that he "isn't an NFL QB". We'll see about that.

Ty Okada wasn't an NFL safety, until he was. Alex Singleton didn't make it on NFL rosters, until he did. Nobody thought Daniel Hardy was an NFL prospect, until his senior year and a position change.

[Colter_Nuanez]

[nanacat]

Thanks for sharing that Colter!