Nobody would be asking you to let your kid go. All anyone wants is for parents/siblings to be allowed in the gate. Honestly if I were a parent of a HS athkeye I'd be going in anyway, masked up and sit with only my family. Worst they can do is tell you to leave them you have to sit outside the fences like they are now anyway.onceacat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:54 pmRimrock Mall & Scheels. At the mall, probably half or 60% of people were meeting the mandate, and another 20% were wearing their masks like a beard net. Another 30% not wearing at all. It was way worse at Schools.grizzh8r wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:34 pmAgreed, dunno what part of Billings you were in or what you are doing, ever since the mask mandate came out, I rarely see folks out and about without them on.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:56 pmWere you at the scrimmages? Did you see each family sitting 6+ feet apart and wearing masks? Daylis holds a couple thousand and the parents can EASILY distance. You can talk all you want about Yellowstone County having issues (although I've not see any maskless people when I go to the store), but maybe the folks in charge of the no fans order should have attended the scrimmages this week, and the Lockwood game Friday, and seen that the parents of the players are responsible enough to follow directions in order to watch their kid/s.onceacat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:39 pmI was in Billings this weekend. I'd classify the state of affairs there as "ignoring the masking directive". Between Yellowstone, Rosebud, and Big Horn, they have something like 50% of new cases in Montana, a really high positivity rate, and according to the hospitals, beds are filling up beyond normal comfort level.ilovethecats wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:58 amThere is no way this can be true. Everything we have been made to do makes 100% perfect sense. Really no reason to even question it. It would be FAR too dangerous to allow anyone in a football stadium. Parents wanting to do so are just being selfish and not thinking about the well being of others. I’m shocked their even playing football.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 amI officiated West High's scrimmage last night and it was pretty ridiculous to see the parents having to sit outside the stadium to watch their kids. I'm not sure if SD2/Yellowstone County thought parents just wouldn't show up if they weren't allowed in the stadium but they did! And guess what? They were all responsible enough to socially distance. There is absolutely no reason parents shouldn't be allowed in the stadium to watch their kids as long as they can be responsible. Especially a stadium with the seating capacity if Daylis.
I'd respectfully suggest that if the good folks of Yellowstone County were serious about attending football games, they'd be far better served trying to contain their current outbreak than complaining about suffering the consequences of ignoring the public health directives. Its sort of like trying to teach a 5 year old about logical consequences.
If Billings met basic guidelines to have 200 +/- people in the stands (i.e. positive test rate below 5%, 2 weeks of declining cases, daily new cases <5 per 100k, and ICU bed usage at <50%) then we would all agree that parents should watch their kids.
But, dang, people. You made your bed...
We have family that are in high risk categories, so we tend to be cautious about being out in places where people are actively flouting the mandates.
Maybe as soon as you cross 24th Street, things get better.
But its doesn't take a STEM graduate to understand why Billings is struggling with objectively bad numbers and most of the rest of the state is shutting this thing down.
If Yellowstone lifted the ban on spectators, I'm not sure I'd let my kid go there for an athletic competition. Its a long way from Sturgis bad, but its a long way from good.
MSU response
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- BleedingBLue
- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
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- BobcatNation Hall of Famer
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Re: MSU response
Like I said, if people in Billings had been taking the pandemic seriously, people would be allowed in the games. Pretty simple.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:28 pmNobody would be asking you to let your kid go. All anyone wants is for parents/siblings to be allowed in the gate. Honestly if I were a parent of a HS athkeye I'd be going in anyway, masked up and sit with only my family. Worst they can do is tell you to leave them you have to sit outside the fences like they are now anyway.onceacat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:54 pmRimrock Mall & Scheels. At the mall, probably half or 60% of people were meeting the mandate, and another 20% were wearing their masks like a beard net. Another 30% not wearing at all. It was way worse at Schools.grizzh8r wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:34 pmAgreed, dunno what part of Billings you were in or what you are doing, ever since the mask mandate came out, I rarely see folks out and about without them on.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:56 pmWere you at the scrimmages? Did you see each family sitting 6+ feet apart and wearing masks? Daylis holds a couple thousand and the parents can EASILY distance. You can talk all you want about Yellowstone County having issues (although I've not see any maskless people when I go to the store), but maybe the folks in charge of the no fans order should have attended the scrimmages this week, and the Lockwood game Friday, and seen that the parents of the players are responsible enough to follow directions in order to watch their kid/s.onceacat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:39 pmI was in Billings this weekend. I'd classify the state of affairs there as "ignoring the masking directive". Between Yellowstone, Rosebud, and Big Horn, they have something like 50% of new cases in Montana, a really high positivity rate, and according to the hospitals, beds are filling up beyond normal comfort level.ilovethecats wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:58 amThere is no way this can be true. Everything we have been made to do makes 100% perfect sense. Really no reason to even question it. It would be FAR too dangerous to allow anyone in a football stadium. Parents wanting to do so are just being selfish and not thinking about the well being of others. I’m shocked their even playing football.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 amI officiated West High's scrimmage last night and it was pretty ridiculous to see the parents having to sit outside the stadium to watch their kids. I'm not sure if SD2/Yellowstone County thought parents just wouldn't show up if they weren't allowed in the stadium but they did! And guess what? They were all responsible enough to socially distance. There is absolutely no reason parents shouldn't be allowed in the stadium to watch their kids as long as they can be responsible. Especially a stadium with the seating capacity if Daylis.
I'd respectfully suggest that if the good folks of Yellowstone County were serious about attending football games, they'd be far better served trying to contain their current outbreak than complaining about suffering the consequences of ignoring the public health directives. Its sort of like trying to teach a 5 year old about logical consequences.
If Billings met basic guidelines to have 200 +/- people in the stands (i.e. positive test rate below 5%, 2 weeks of declining cases, daily new cases <5 per 100k, and ICU bed usage at <50%) then we would all agree that parents should watch their kids.
But, dang, people. You made your bed...
We have family that are in high risk categories, so we tend to be cautious about being out in places where people are actively flouting the mandates.
Maybe as soon as you cross 24th Street, things get better.
But its doesn't take a STEM graduate to understand why Billings is struggling with objectively bad numbers and most of the rest of the state is shutting this thing down.
If Yellowstone lifted the ban on spectators, I'm not sure I'd let my kid go there for an athletic competition. Its a long way from Sturgis bad, but its a long way from good.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
According to the CDC, 94% of people who have died of Covid have had an average of 2.6 underlying causes in addition to Covid.
6% of people have died from Covid alone. The majority of those are elderly.
So among those who have tested positive, 0.18% (roughly) have died from Covid alone.
If you're relatively healthy, this isn't a problematic virus. Blocking off the whole population is ridiculous. Have health issues? Be careful, isolate as much as possible, and try to get healthier if possible. If you're healthy? You got practically no worries at all.
6% of people have died from Covid alone. The majority of those are elderly.
So among those who have tested positive, 0.18% (roughly) have died from Covid alone.
If you're relatively healthy, this isn't a problematic virus. Blocking off the whole population is ridiculous. Have health issues? Be careful, isolate as much as possible, and try to get healthier if possible. If you're healthy? You got practically no worries at all.
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- BobcatNation Letterman
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Re: MSU response
Actually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
I didn't estimate about people with underlying conditions?LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 amActually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
- The Big Meowski
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Re: MSU response
Ya, this confused me cause I didn't see your estimate either. Unless your "estimate" is the actual data. It's like, in the month of April, I estimated what I'd weigh on August 31st. I weigh myself this morning and the figure doesn't agree with my estimate. My measurement can't be correct. I'd walk out on a plank and say that 100% of the folks with 2.6 or even just 1 underlying condition are at risk and should watch their 6. I don't think there is any argument here. Am I wrong?bobcat99 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:51 amI didn't estimate about people with underlying conditions?LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 amActually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
Brian Demarais
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- BobcatNation Letterman
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Re: MSU response
You implied that dying from covid with underling conditions was somehow less serious than dying from covid alone. The article points out the large number of people in this country who have these conditions. You can do fine and have a long life with diabetes or obesity for instance, until you contract covid. Your point is if you're healthy, no worries, mine is not so many people are healthy or without risk factors and the simple steps to help protect them are not unreasonable.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
I was literally just in Billings on Friday and Saturday. I was at the mall and at Scheels for my kids school shopping. I felt as if everyone I saw was wearing masks? I'll concede that some were wearing them like idiots. But that has always been the case.grizzh8r wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:34 pmAgreed, dunno what part of Billings you were in or what you are doing, ever since the mask mandate came out, I rarely see folks out and about without them on.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:56 pmWere you at the scrimmages? Did you see each family sitting 6+ feet apart and wearing masks? Daylis holds a couple thousand and the parents can EASILY distance. You can talk all you want about Yellowstone County having issues (although I've not see any maskless people when I go to the store), but maybe the folks in charge of the no fans order should have attended the scrimmages this week, and the Lockwood game Friday, and seen that the parents of the players are responsible enough to follow directions in order to watch their kid/s.onceacat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:39 pmI was in Billings this weekend. I'd classify the state of affairs there as "ignoring the masking directive". Between Yellowstone, Rosebud, and Big Horn, they have something like 50% of new cases in Montana, a really high positivity rate, and according to the hospitals, beds are filling up beyond normal comfort level.ilovethecats wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:58 amThere is no way this can be true. Everything we have been made to do makes 100% perfect sense. Really no reason to even question it. It would be FAR too dangerous to allow anyone in a football stadium. Parents wanting to do so are just being selfish and not thinking about the well being of others. I’m shocked their even playing football.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 amI officiated West High's scrimmage last night and it was pretty ridiculous to see the parents having to sit outside the stadium to watch their kids. I'm not sure if SD2/Yellowstone County thought parents just wouldn't show up if they weren't allowed in the stadium but they did! And guess what? They were all responsible enough to socially distance. There is absolutely no reason parents shouldn't be allowed in the stadium to watch their kids as long as they can be responsible. Especially a stadium with the seating capacity if Daylis.
I'd respectfully suggest that if the good folks of Yellowstone County were serious about attending football games, they'd be far better served trying to contain their current outbreak than complaining about suffering the consequences of ignoring the public health directives. Its sort of like trying to teach a 5 year old about logical consequences.
If Billings met basic guidelines to have 200 +/- people in the stands (i.e. positive test rate below 5%, 2 weeks of declining cases, daily new cases <5 per 100k, and ICU bed usage at <50%) then we would all agree that parents should watch their kids.
But, dang, people. You made your bed...
It's crazy how people can be in the exact same area and see things completely differently. And I enjoyed dinner with my friend who is a doctor there now. We never specifically discussed the occupancy of the hospital but he was sure painting a different picture than what I read above. In fact, he was asked to take some of his paid leave in the next couple weeks to spread out shifts so we're going to the lake this weekend.
Finally, another question I have asked that seems like I haven't gotten an answer to is WHO didn't take this seriously? WHO is responsible for things being so "dire" in Billings and elsewhere? I keep hearing things like YOU made your bed, now YOU must lie in it. Who are we talking about? Is it the people that complain about masks or wear them incorrectly? Is it just those that don't wear them? That seems like a very small fraction of the people from what I've seen. And frankly it seems like a cop out. Businesses are closing, schools are a wreck, I feel terrible for all the kids, life is just kind of crummy overall....and we're just gonna blame it on.....who?
We never shut down air travel. We never did anything to keep every person and their friends and family from bombarding our entire state. Bozeman is absolutely brimming with people from what seems like every state in the country. I saw a fricken Rolls Royce from Texas driving down main street on Sunday! Every store, coffee shop, car wash, bar, restaurant, sidewalk you visit is completely packed. I don't know if this is the case with other cities, but it sure as hell is in Bozeman? How are we so positive that the virus is so "rampant" because of this? Or colleges opening?
I'm so curious who is responsible?
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
I never said those deaths aren't serious? You know what they say about making assumptions, right?LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:05 amYou implied that dying from covid with underling conditions was somehow less serious than dying from covid alone. The article points out the large number of people in this country who have these conditions. You can do fine and have a long life with diabetes or obesity for instance, until you contract covid. Your point is if you're healthy, no worries, mine is not so many people are healthy or without risk factors and the simple steps to help protect them are not unreasonable.
I don't think anybody that's obese is living a great life, or a long one, but that's besides the point.
The point I'm making is that you don't sanction, or for lack of a better word, quarantine, the healthy for the unhealthy. You don't shut down businesses, and lose jobs, for that. You don't tank your economy, for that. Maybe to you, those are simple steps. I just don't agree.
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- BobcatNation Letterman
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Re: MSU response
The simple steps I refer to are masks and social distancing. Which at this point is all we are being asked to do.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
I don't know your situation obviously, but as a business owner and a father of high school and college kids, I know that for ME and MY family....we've been asked to do a lot more than wear masks and social distance. Hell, if all we needed was masks and businesses and schools could have remained open I know WE would have been ecstatic. But that wasn't the case.
Again, I don't know your situation. But I can assure you that for many people, so many that I know; the sacrifices have been far greater than just wearing masks sometimes and staying 6 feet away from each other. I can only WISH that was the biggest burden on all my kids the last 6 months.
I envy you!
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- BobcatNation Letterman
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Re: MSU response
Is your business currently closed, if so I'm sorry. Are your kids currently in school?
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
This is what 99 was referring to. Scan down to “co-morbidties” sections and look at Table 3.LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 amActually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm
Basically, of all the people that have died from Covid, only 6% had only Covid. The remaining 94% all had another serious health issue.
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- BobcatNation Letterman
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Re: MSU response
I understand that. My point is that a huge percentage of the US population has one of these other health issues and is thereby at higher risk of a bad outcome from a covid infection.
- Darth Yoda
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Re: MSU response
How many of the co-morbidity deaths would be alive today if COVID19 never happened?Cataholic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:00 amThis is what 99 was referring to. Scan down to “co-morbidties” sections and look at Table 3.LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 amActually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm
Basically, of all the people that have died from Covid, only 6% had only Covid. The remaining 94% all had another serious health issue.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
Great question. Unfortunately, the answer might depend on what political party you belong to.Darth Yoda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:12 amHow many of the co-morbidity deaths would be alive today if COVID19 never happened?Cataholic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:00 amThis is what 99 was referring to. Scan down to “co-morbidties” sections and look at Table 3.LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 amActually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm
Basically, of all the people that have died from Covid, only 6% had only Covid. The remaining 94% all had another serious health issue.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
Is that really all we're being asked to do?
I don't mean to be rude, but where the hell have you been?
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
Undoubtedly more of them.Darth Yoda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:12 amHow many of the co-morbidity deaths would be alive today if COVID19 never happened?Cataholic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:00 amThis is what 99 was referring to. Scan down to “co-morbidties” sections and look at Table 3.LCH wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 amActually your estimates of increased risk of severe infection or death due to Coronavirus in those with underlying conditions are far too low. If you care to read the actual data see this site https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ronavirus/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm
Basically, of all the people that have died from Covid, only 6% had only Covid. The remaining 94% all had another serious health issue.
How many? It's very hard to say.
How many more are alive in New York if Cuomo doesn't send positive individuals to senior homes? How many more are alive if we all wore masks from early on? How many more end up alive (or dead) if we went Sweden's route? It's all hard to say. The leadership from EVERYBODY has been fairly lackluster.
With that said, and not to be callous, but most elderly people with health issues are the ones who have died. That's not a population group that's going to do well with any sickness. So to me, the question is if you shut down your economy for *that*. I don't think you do. Just my opinion. Doesn't mean you don't take precautions, just don't tank your economy.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
One I had to shutter for good unfortunately. I have a couple others that are doing well.
My parents have a couple properties that just killed them. Had to evict some tenants who couldn't make rent. That was a terrible time.
I have a college freshman who is getting acclimated. Obviously he was many of the high school seniors last year that got totally screwed. Went from no interaction whatsoever starting in march to being thrown into a dorm a couple weeks ago. He's adjusting.
I have two high school kids as well. My son is doing much better than my daughter. It's a tough age for all kids but with the pandemic it has been especially hard on her. We have seeked professional help for her so we're hoping that will get her back on track. A couple of her classmates weren't as lucky. Did not do well with online learning last semester and are now not going to school. Can't imagine what those parents are going through.
My youngest will be determined in the coming weeks. He lost out on his last months in middle school so how he adjusts starting high school is yet to be seen.
I guess my whole point is it seems like a huge stretch to suggest that all anyone has been asked to do so far is wear mask and social distance. For many of us, those little things are almost unnoticeable in comparison to other plights we go through daily. Some people, kids especially, have made HUGE sacrifices through all of this. I look at statements like all we've been asked to do is wear a mask is akin to those on the other side that say Coronavirus is a hoax. Very misleading, and kind of crazy. Like always, the answer is somewhere in between these crazy comments.
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- Golden Bobcat
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Re: MSU response
Good posting.ilovethecats wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:09 pmOne I had to shutter for good unfortunately. I have a couple others that are doing well.
My parents have a couple properties that just killed them. Had to evict some tenants who couldn't make rent. That was a terrible time.
I have a college freshman who is getting acclimated. Obviously he was many of the high school seniors last year that got totally screwed. Went from no interaction whatsoever starting in march to being thrown into a dorm a couple weeks ago. He's adjusting.
I have two high school kids as well. My son is doing much better than my daughter. It's a tough age for all kids but with the pandemic it has been especially hard on her. We have seeked professional help for her so we're hoping that will get her back on track. A couple of her classmates weren't as lucky. Did not do well with online learning last semester and are now not going to school. Can't imagine what those parents are going through.
My youngest will be determined in the coming weeks. He lost out on his last months in middle school so how he adjusts starting high school is yet to be seen.
I guess my whole point is it seems like a huge stretch to suggest that all anyone has been asked to do so far is wear mask and social distance. For many of us, those little things are almost unnoticeable in comparison to other plights we go through daily. Some people, kids especially, have made HUGE sacrifices through all of this. I look at statements like all we've been asked to do is wear a mask is akin to those on the other side that say Coronavirus is a hoax. Very misleading, and kind of crazy. Like always, the answer is somewhere in between these crazy comments.