Cure worse than the problem?

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91catAlum
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by 91catAlum » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:55 pm

Rich K wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:00 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:13 pm


And you took 1 small sentence out of my whole post and ignored the rest, where I was basically agreeing with Trump that there is a point where the cure becomes worse than the disease. But knock yourself out.
Forgive me for being too vague with "have things back by Easter." Didn't mean to get your panties in a big wad.
When you mentioned he had to be high to believe it it implies that he was being rather extreme. I don't think what he actually said was extreme. Am I high?
Both you and 250624 are now doing to my post, what the media does to every little word Trump speaks. They spin it into something that makes him look as bad as possible, always assuming he meant the worst rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you complain about that, right?? And then you turn around and do the same here.

I didn't say Trumps words were extreme. You spun what I said into that. Perhaps saying "he's high" was a poor word choice. "Unrealistic" is what I meant. Is that better? Can we all live with that word?

I understand his desire to try to be optimistic in this situation. But two more weeks is not nearly enough time, according to most experts I've heard, including many of those on Trump's own panel of experts.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:34 pm

If you gradually have people return to work beginning on Easter, will that be better than having them return right now or when it’s safer?

What’s best for the economy?
A) return to work now (assuming it’s peaking and a high % get sick, while markets are where they are)
B) return around Easter (assuming it’s just past peak and could re-start, but markets are okay due to stimulus)
C) return in July (assuming it’s under control, but markets have tanked)


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by allcat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:47 am

[quote=91catAlum post_id=703071 time=1585184151 user_id=16374]
[quote="Rich K" post_id=703061 time=1585177247 user_id=15874]
[quote=91catAlum post_id=703056 time=1585170818 user_id=16374]


And you took 1 small sentence out of my whole post and ignored the rest, where I was basically agreeing with Trump that there is a point where the cure becomes worse than the disease. But knock yourself out.
Forgive me for being too vague with "have things back by Easter." Didn't mean to get your panties in a big wad.
[/quote]

When you mentioned he had to be high to believe it it implies that he was being rather extreme. I don't think what he actually said was extreme. Am I high?
[/quote]

Both you and 250624 are now doing to my post, what the media does to every little word Trump speaks. They spin it into something that makes him look as bad as possible, always assuming he meant the worst rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you complain about that, right?? And then you turn around and do the same here.

I didn't say Trumps words were extreme. You spun what I said into that. Perhaps saying "he's high" was a poor word choice. "Unrealistic" is what I meant. Is that better? Can we all live with that word?

I understand his desire to try to be optimistic in this situation. But two more weeks is not nearly enough time, according to most experts I've heard, including many of those on Trump's own panel of experts.
[/quote]

What would you have said


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:20 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:23 pm
cats2506 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:34 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:18 pm
cats2506 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:05 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:01 am
cats2506 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:06 am
91catAlum wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:20 am
At some point in time, the cure does become worse than the disease. For example if we shut the economy down for a full year, we'll have unemployment around 70-80%, permanently closed businesses, empty store shelves, people killing each other for a roll of TP. Basically we'll be Venezuela and we won't really have a country anymore. We'd have more people dying of starvation, murder, and all the diseases that come when you don't have sanitation and sewer services in a society.

But if Trump thinks we'll have things back by Easter, he's high. The best we can hope for is probably around June 1, absolute best-case scenario. More likely July, it sounds like.
He didn't say that the economy would be back by Easter. The point was that hopefully some of the restrictions would be lifted by then and the country could start moving in the right direction. I don't know where you are getting this idea that Trump thinks that everything will be OK by Easter but maybe you should watch something else. The hope is that by about Easter we will have our medical facilities prepared enough and the population centers will have peaked in infections that we can start to move forward.

This is about as ridiculous as saying that he told that guy to take fish tank cleaner as a cure for the virus.
I don't see where 91 said that Trump said the economy would be back by Easter. He says "things" back by Easter and then for context says best we can hope for is around June 1. Not sure why you're trying to twist his words around. It's often difficult to understand just what Trump means when he says something.
The expectations put out by the WH is June or July. To insinuate that the Administration has abandoned those expectations and is expecting "things to be back" (inferring the economy) by Easter is twisting words in a deceptive way.

It takes one small statement out of a large interview and ignores the rest of the interview or the several days of task force press conferences and statements previous to this.
Even a lot of Trump backers get confused by Trump’s words and his actual stance. It appears that 91catalum isn’t sure, since his exact words are “if Trump thinks” and those are perfect words. “If” and “thinks” imply that it is unknown what Trump thinks. Trump’s comment were on a Fox special and moments later he didn’t say anything about Easter. So he was probably playing to his audience on Fox, which consists of older, religious (Xtians) viewers. It was a warm, fuzzy for them to be sure.

If you’re the president and you make these comments it’s up to you to be clear about what you’re saying or you get beat up by the press. Happens to all presidents. Trump just says whatever though and says the media is nasty, enemy of the people if they take in a way he didn’t intend. It’s very refreshing.
Yeah, I watched it and didn't have any trouble understanding what was being said and the points that were emphasized. But if you just watched a 10 second clip on MSDNC I'm sure you would be confused.
MSDNC? It’s now evident that you’re looking at it in a partisan way. I thought your were thinking critically. I voted for Trump, but can understand why people are taking him to task. He needs to be clear if he doesn’t want his words to be misconstrued. But I’m probably wasting my time trying to have a discussion with you about it.
Good, don't discuss it with me, I am tired of your rote parroting of the leftest DNC talkingpoints.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:22 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:28 pm
Ultimately what Trump says has little effect on this situation locally. Most of it is being handled by the states and local governments.

His best move would be to stand back and agree with whatever Fauci and Birx say. He’d look good doing that. Stop trolling Romney and act like he’s taking this seriously.
You obviously haven't watched much of the taskforce briefings, you are repeating another talkingpoint of the left


PlayerRep wrote:The point is not the record of the teams UM beat, it's the quality and record of the teams UM almost beat.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:24 am

91catAlum wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:55 pm
Rich K wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:00 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:13 pm


And you took 1 small sentence out of my whole post and ignored the rest, where I was basically agreeing with Trump that there is a point where the cure becomes worse than the disease. But knock yourself out.
Forgive me for being too vague with "have things back by Easter." Didn't mean to get your panties in a big wad.
When you mentioned he had to be high to believe it it implies that he was being rather extreme. I don't think what he actually said was extreme. Am I high?
Both you and 250624 are now doing to my post, what the media does to every little word Trump speaks. They spin it into something that makes him look as bad as possible, always assuming he meant the worst rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you complain about that, right?? And then you turn around and do the same here.

I didn't say Trumps words were extreme. You spun what I said into that. Perhaps saying "he's high" was a poor word choice. "Unrealistic" is what I meant. Is that better? Can we all live with that word?

I understand his desire to try to be optimistic in this situation. But two more weeks is not nearly enough time, according to most experts I've heard, including many of those on Trump's own panel of experts.
your original statement did exactly that


PlayerRep wrote:The point is not the record of the teams UM beat, it's the quality and record of the teams UM almost beat.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:27 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:34 pm
If you gradually have people return to work beginning on Easter, will that be better than having them return right now or when it’s safer?

What’s best for the economy?
A) return to work now (assuming it’s peaking and a high % get sick, while markets are where they are)
B) return around Easter (assuming it’s just past peak and could re-start, but markets are okay due to stimulus)
C) return in July (assuming it’s under control, but markets have tanked)
This (B) is exactly what Trump and the taskforce have been saying, but you have spent so much time spreading misinformation through leftest talking points, now you are arriving at the same conclusion and claiming it is something new.


PlayerRep wrote:The point is not the record of the teams UM beat, it's the quality and record of the teams UM almost beat.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:34 pm
If you gradually have people return to work beginning on Easter, will that be better than having them return right now or when it’s safer?

What’s best for the economy?
A) return to work now (assuming it’s peaking and a high % get sick, while markets are where they are)
B) return around Easter (assuming it’s just past peak and could re-start, but markets are okay due to stimulus)
C) return in July (assuming it’s under control, but markets have tanked)
C. That’s Trump’s original guess (“July, August”) and it was based on what his experts told him. If you don’t count his statement last month when he said we had “15 cases, but that’ll be zero” in a few days. He’s covering all his bases.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:24 am

It doesn’t matter too much what Trump recommends. The states, schools and local government’s recommendations are what people will most likely follow since they’re the ones that recommended the shut downs.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by John K » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 am

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:55 am
The other day President Trump tweeted "WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF."

I'm curious where people fall on this. How do you weigh the cost/benefit of keeping our people healthy vs keeping the economy healthy?

If we send everyone back to work, will that completely overwhelm our healthcare system? If we keep everyone home, do we pay send them all government checks?

I certainly don't know the answer to this, and I don't think anyone does. It will be interesting to see how things play out in the coming weeks.
From a macro perspective, there may be some merit in taking this approach on a limited basis...obviously things aren't gonna go completely back to "normal". But if/when someone who is close to you (who is elderly, or has some underlying health issues that make them particularly vulnerable to COVID-19) is infected and ends up dying from it, that is likely to change a person's perspective on the economy vs. health debate.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by 91catAlum » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:31 am

cats2506 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:24 am
91catAlum wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:55 pm
Rich K wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:00 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:13 pm


And you took 1 small sentence out of my whole post and ignored the rest, where I was basically agreeing with Trump that there is a point where the cure becomes worse than the disease. But knock yourself out.
Forgive me for being too vague with "have things back by Easter." Didn't mean to get your panties in a big wad.
When you mentioned he had to be high to believe it it implies that he was being rather extreme. I don't think what he actually said was extreme. Am I high?
Both you and 250624 are now doing to my post, what the media does to every little word Trump speaks. They spin it into something that makes him look as bad as possible, always assuming he meant the worst rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you complain about that, right?? And then you turn around and do the same here.

I didn't say Trumps words were extreme. You spun what I said into that. Perhaps saying "he's high" was a poor word choice. "Unrealistic" is what I meant. Is that better? Can we all live with that word?

I understand his desire to try to be optimistic in this situation. But two more weeks is not nearly enough time, according to most experts I've heard, including many of those on Trump's own panel of experts.
your original statement did exactly that
False. I said IF that's what Trump thinks, he's high. Then you got super defensive and started spinning my words and accusing me of making things up.
Why don't we just drop it, I'm sure everyone is tired of this.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cledus » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 am

Seriously, anyone who's really interested in learning more should follow Chris Martenson on Twitter (the handle might be under his company Peak Prosperity). He puts out an update every single day on YouTube through his Peak Prosperity channel.

He covers all this stuff precisely, the three-way balancing act; a triangle.

There is the three-way balancing act all governments are facing. It's a real dilemma. You can't point to any one corner of the triangle as a matter of emphasis because ignoring the other two causes real, significant, and costly damage.

You can contain the virus; it can be done. Taiwan, Hong Kong, and South Korea have shown it can be done. You place the value of human life above all else. They're saving lives at the expense of their Economy. This is just the choice they made and it's not fair to say every nation should do the same. But if your primary goal is to save lives, they are the model.

OR

You can keep the economy going, but then the bell curve has a very tall and narrow peak and the healthcare system is overloaded. Thus, more people wind up dying who could have been saved. But we achieve herd immunity quicker and the damage to the Economy is shorter and probably not as deep.

Keeping the Economy going is a very real and important concern. It doesn't mean you're greedy. What the Economy produces will help save people.

I think the current administration is trying to optimize the triangle given the current set of constraints under which our system operates. We only have 100,000 ICU beds in the entire country and at any given moment 60% are already in use.

One hundred percent of the pharmaceuticals we use are manufactured in China. There has not been a single pharmaceutical medicine manufactured in this country since 2004. Their factories have been closed and though some have come back online, they're not at 100%. Can't also ignore that now China is threatening to withhold medicine we need.

But let's assume we start manufacturing our own medicines today here on American soil. Care to guess where get the pharmaceutical ingredients?

As of yesterday (3/25/2020), there were 206 total cases per one million people here in the US. That number has to get to 80,000 for us to hit herd immunity. So we've got quite a ways to go.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:42 pm

The best interview so far was conducted by Steph Curry today with Dr. Fauci.

foxnews.com/sports/fauci-stephen-curry-sports-return-coronavirus



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by allcat » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:47 am

Fauci has been great, Trump would like to see things come back asap, we all would. Trump has been basically doing what Fauci recommends.


Now sorry for caring about Cat/griz too much. I've been properly chastised by the coach of the other team. :-^

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:48 am

John K wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:55 am
The other day President Trump tweeted "WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF."

I'm curious where people fall on this. How do you weigh the cost/benefit of keeping our people healthy vs keeping the economy healthy?

If we send everyone back to work, will that completely overwhelm our healthcare system? If we keep everyone home, do we pay send them all government checks?

I certainly don't know the answer to this, and I don't think anyone does. It will be interesting to see how things play out in the coming weeks.
From a macro perspective, there may be some merit in taking this approach on a limited basis...obviously things aren't gonna go completely back to "normal". But if/when someone who is close to you (who is elderly, or has some underlying health issues that make them particularly vulnerable to COVID-19) is infected and ends up dying from it, that is likely to change a person's perspective on the economy vs. health debate.


Lets stick to what is really happening rather than following the leftest talking points and media hysteria


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:52 am

More information



PlayerRep wrote:The point is not the record of the teams UM beat, it's the quality and record of the teams UM almost beat.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:58 am

uh oh, its not as bad as they thought

https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemio ... -highly-ci


PlayerRep wrote:The point is not the record of the teams UM beat, it's the quality and record of the teams UM almost beat.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by cats2506 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:07 am



PlayerRep wrote:The point is not the record of the teams UM beat, it's the quality and record of the teams UM almost beat.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:27 am

cats2506 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:07 am
This is not gonna make the MSM

https://www.thecollegefix.com/public-he ... us-itself/


and then there is this

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... er-current
Thanks.

We obviously won't know for months the total impact of this virus but I have believed peoples predictions on fatalities and hospitalizations have been WAY to high for the last month. It's good to see some of these scientists and other experts retracting some of the wild predictions now.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:38 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:27 am
cats2506 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:07 am
This is not gonna make the MSM

https://www.thecollegefix.com/public-he ... us-itself/


and then there is this

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... er-current
Thanks.

We obviously won't know for months the total impact of this virus but I have believed peoples predictions on fatalities and hospitalizations have been WAY to high for the last month. It's good to see some of these scientists and other experts retracting some of the wild predictions now.
Predictions based on models (be it weather, traffic,etc), almost always come with caveats. No different here. You’re gonna have some bad weather, so get ready. You’re gonna see some heavy traffic, be prepared...

Trump predicted that we’d go from 15 to zero and it’d be all over. That really work out well since we now have the most infections in the world and didn’t get as prepared as we could have, which is the real issue. The scientific models that predict things will be worse didn’t cause us to not be more prepared.



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