More UM Drama

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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: More UM Drama

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:13 pm

Does the Bill of Rights say anything about offensive?



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by Grizlaw » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:48 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:07 pm

You’re right, but there has to be a line that can’t be crossed, right? How do we determine where that line is?

Is it kneeling for a flag? Is it saying women lose their value after age 18? None of the above? All of the above?
Well, for me, if we’re talking about firing someone from their job based on their personal views, the relevant question should be, “does it impact their ability to do their job?” If the answer is no, then society shouldn’t care what their views are.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by Grizlaw » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:54 pm

Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:13 pm
Does the Bill of Rights say anything about offensive?
The Bill of Rights only applies when the government is depriving someone of life, liberty, or property based on speech. Everyone agrees that that isn’t happening here. But if you believe in free speech as a principle, then you must realize that it is broader than what is contained within the language of the Constitution.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by wbtfg » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:56 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:48 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:07 pm

You’re right, but there has to be a line that can’t be crossed, right? How do we determine where that line is?

Is it kneeling for a flag? Is it saying women lose their value after age 18? None of the above? All of the above?
Well, for me, if we’re talking about firing someone from their job based on their personal views, the relevant question should be, “does it impact their ability to do their job?” If the answer is no, then society shouldn’t care what their views are.
What do you make the legal ramifications of him voluntarily resigning?



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by Grizlaw » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:47 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:56 pm

What do you make the legal ramifications of him voluntarily resigning?
I’m not completely sure, to be honest. I mean, I’m pretty far from being an expert on this stuff (I’m a tax lawyer, so this is pretty far outside of my wheelhouse). In general, I know that tenured professors do have some protections that regular employees don’t have, but I don’t know much of the details as to when they can / can’t be fired, so I don’t really know what his chances would’ve been if he’d decided to try to fight it. I assume he resigned because either: 1) he was advised that he didn’t have much of a chance if he tried to fight it, or 2) the University might have offered him a package to get him to resign.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:55 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:54 pm
Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:13 pm
Does the Bill of Rights say anything about offensive?
The Bill of Rights only applies when the government is depriving someone of life, liberty, or property based on speech. Everyone agrees that that isn’t happening here. But if you believe in free speech as a principle, then you must realize that it is broader than what is contained within the language of the Constitution.
Thanks! Got it.



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by rivercat » Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:47 am

As a business owner, it comes down to this simple question.

Does the cost of employing a person outweigh the benefit that person brings to the company?

So, yeah, if the actions of a employee outside of their emoyment harms my business, I have to consider that cost in our relationship.

Americans enjoy the legal freedom of speech, but words and actions have consequences.

All this said, I hate this cancel culture because it actively hunts for a reason to cancel a person. Cultural norms change with time not to mention that people change. It would take something egregious and offensive in a person's past for me to consider ending their employment. It's another thing if the employee is currently exercising their right to free speech that is harming my business.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by allcat » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:19 am

rivercat wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:47 am
As a business owner, it comes down to this simple question.

Does the cost of employing a person outweigh the benefit that person brings to the company?

So, yeah, if the actions of a employee outside of their emoyment harms my business, I have to consider that cost in our relationship.

Americans enjoy the legal freedom of speech, but words and actions have consequences.

All this said, I hate this cancel culture because it actively hunts for a reason to cancel a person. Cultural norms change with time not to mention that people change. It would take something egregious and offensive in a person's past for me to consider ending their employment. It's another thing if the employee is currently exercising their right to free speech that is harming my business.
I can see cancelling someone that was a president during the civil war. He was an obvious choice.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by coloradocat » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:09 pm

allcat wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:19 am
rivercat wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:47 am
As a business owner, it comes down to this simple question.

Does the cost of employing a person outweigh the benefit that person brings to the company?

So, yeah, if the actions of a employee outside of their emoyment harms my business, I have to consider that cost in our relationship.

Americans enjoy the legal freedom of speech, but words and actions have consequences.

All this said, I hate this cancel culture because it actively hunts for a reason to cancel a person. Cultural norms change with time not to mention that people change. It would take something egregious and offensive in a person's past for me to consider ending their employment. It's another thing if the employee is currently exercising their right to free speech that is harming my business.
I can see cancelling someone that was a president during the civil war. He was an obvious choice.
Sure he unconstitutionally suspended habeas corpus but I wouldn't take his statue down from outside the SUB.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by wbtfg » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:18 pm

Another lawsuit filed against UM. Is this 3 or 4 already this year? I’ve lost count.

https://dailymontanan.com/2021/11/15/fo ... vFXiZ1MAIA



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by coloradocat » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:04 pm

I love when this thread has an update. :yes:


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by HelenaCat » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:31 pm

Haslam and DeCuire sure sound like wonderful people….if even half of this is true. Um is a dumpster fire in terms of their people and hires, both academically and athletics.



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by RickRund » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:02 pm

Just great news everyday coming out of the college of the west.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by BozoneCat » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:58 pm

HelenaCat wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:31 pm
Haslam and DeCuire sure sound like wonderful people….if even half of this is true. Um is a dumpster fire in terms of their people and hires, both academically and athletics.
I just can't believe the never-ending sh*tstorm of bad things happening over there. It continues to highlight the unbelievable leadership we have at MSU, how lucky we are and how far we have come. Can you ever see Leon or Danny Sprinkle acting like this - I mean, ever? That just isn't who they are. And MSU has rewarded Coach Binford with a contract that rewards her success and longevity.


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Re: More UM Drama

Post by John K » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:25 pm

And this was the very first paragraph/sentence in the story:

Alleging a double standard based on gender, Shannon Schweyen, former head coach for women’s basketball at the University of Montana, is suing the flagship for sex discrimination and asking for a reinstatement — or back pay and front pay for lost compensation.

UM is still referring to itself as "the flagship"....flagship of what? Dumpster fires, s**t storms, train wrecks? Surely they don't really believe that they're still the flagship university in Montana, do they? Are they really that delusional over there in Missoula?

It seems odd that they would have cited players entering the transfer portal as the reason for her dismissal. It seems like her dismal, sub .500 record as the head coach of a program that had dominated the BSC for decades under Selvig, would have been adequate cause to terminate her.

Also interesting to see that Devlan Geddes is one of her attorneys. Didn't he play football for the Cats back in the 90's?



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by GRIZFNZ » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:24 pm

John K wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:25 pm
And this was the very first paragraph/sentence in the story:

Alleging a double standard based on gender, Shannon Schweyen, former head coach for women’s basketball at the University of Montana, is suing the flagship for sex discrimination and asking for a reinstatement — or back pay and front pay for lost compensation.

UM is still referring to itself as "the flagship"....flagship of what? Dumpster fires, s**t storms, train wrecks? Surely they don't really believe that they're still the flagship university in Montana, do they? Are they really that delusional over there in Missoula?

It seems odd that they would have cited players entering the transfer portal as the reason for her dismissal. It seems like her dismal, sub .500 record as the head coach of a program that had dominated the BSC for decades under Selvig, would have been adequate cause to terminate her.

Also interesting to see that Devlan Geddes is one of her attorneys. Didn't he play football for the Cats back in the 90's?
Pretty simple, during their creation MSU was designated as the “Land Grant” Institution and UM the “Flagship” Institution.



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by HelenaCat » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:48 pm

GRIZFNZ wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:24 pm
John K wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:25 pm
And this was the very first paragraph/sentence in the story:

Alleging a double standard based on gender, Shannon Schweyen, former head coach for women’s basketball at the University of Montana, is suing the flagship for sex discrimination and asking for a reinstatement — or back pay and front pay for lost compensation.

UM is still referring to itself as "the flagship"....flagship of what? Dumpster fires, s**t storms, train wrecks? Surely they don't really believe that they're still the flagship university in Montana, do they? Are they really that delusional over there in Missoula?

It seems odd that they would have cited players entering the transfer portal as the reason for her dismissal. It seems like her dismal, sub .500 record as the head coach of a program that had dominated the BSC for decades under Selvig, would have been adequate cause to terminate her.

Also interesting to see that Devlan Geddes is one of her attorneys. Didn't he play football for the Cats back in the 90's?
Pretty simple, during their creation MSU was designated as the “Land Grant” Institution and UM the “Flagship” Institution.

There can only be one flagship university in the state, and it sure ain’t dUMb.



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by John K » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:37 am

GRIZFNZ wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:24 pm
John K wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:25 pm
And this was the very first paragraph/sentence in the story:

Alleging a double standard based on gender, Shannon Schweyen, former head coach for women’s basketball at the University of Montana, is suing the flagship for sex discrimination and asking for a reinstatement — or back pay and front pay for lost compensation.

UM is still referring to itself as "the flagship"....flagship of what? Dumpster fires, s**t storms, train wrecks? Surely they don't really believe that they're still the flagship university in Montana, do they? Are they really that delusional over there in Missoula?

It seems odd that they would have cited players entering the transfer portal as the reason for her dismissal. It seems like her dismal, sub .500 record as the head coach of a program that had dominated the BSC for decades under Selvig, would have been adequate cause to terminate her.

Also interesting to see that Devlan Geddes is one of her attorneys. Didn't he play football for the Cats back in the 90's?
Pretty simple, during their creation MSU was designated as the “Land Grant” Institution and UM the “Flagship” Institution.
Thank you for answering one of my questions...apparently UM/Missoula people really are that delusional. The Green Bay Packers were once considered to be the flagship franchise in the NFL. back when Lombardi was coaching then and they were winning all those championships more than 50 years ago...but things change.



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by wbtfg » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:29 am

From flagship to sinking ship.....sad.



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Re: More UM Drama

Post by Hawks86 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:06 am

There is a little-known codicil in the missoula junior college constitution which forces any news article about the junior college to include "flagship" at least once.


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