Drinking & Driving

A mellow place for Bobcats to discuss topics free of political posturing

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Cat-theotherwhitemeat
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Post by Cat-theotherwhitemeat » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:28 pm

I have to chime in on something off the subject, yet pertains to this thread.

This thread has expressed two different views on a subject that could be defined as emotional. God knows the thought of someone taking a beer out of my hands would make me emotional. However, even with the differences that we have expressed, no one has belittled or called another an idiot or stupid because they didn't share the same opinion. I know this happens way to frequently on the other site.

Kudo's to those involved and hopefully this can be used as a template for further debates.

Raise your cyber beers (while it's still legal :wink: ), and drink a toast gentlemen.


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Post by grizbeer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:52 pm

$5million in lost highway money - add $.0075 to the gas tax, and don't worry about the federal government. Here is a question - if this program is so important why not make it a Federal Law? Instead we legislate through the budget.

So where is the limit to the Federal government dictating state laws. Federal speed limits again? Federal Minimum driving age of 18, or maybe 21? Car seats for anyone under 9 years old like they have in Wyoming?

How about more uniform and restrictive alcohol laws, say like those in Utah that require a membership to buy alcohol in a bar? Or how about now that all states have the .08 bac, how about changing it down to .05? .03? .00?

The question is who gets to set Montana's laws? The Montana state legislature, or an insurance institute in Virgina? It's really not this law that concerns me, it is the slippery slope that we are going down. Montana has always been one of the last to slide down that slope, but alas we end up sliding down it in the end.

It seems like the people who support this law are the ones who either don't live in Montana, or who just returned or moved to Montana in the last couple years, while people who maybe haven't benefited from your experience with other states and cultures are against it.

BTW BAC I thought we already had the discussion about Montana being a leach on the rest of the nation, and it isn't so much that Montana is a bum as it is the Federal government paying for Federal assets and programs (Federally owned land, CRP and farm support, SS, etc)?



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Post by Cat Grad » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:11 pm

Well, here is a thought as this seems to be evolving into a thread on state's rights--how do ya'll feel about the 9th circuits decision as to Arizona's right to limit out of state hunters (and charge foreigners more?) Several times I've read where eastern senators have considered federal licenses on federal land and would take the management of fish and game out of state control, similar to Indian Reservations and National Parks.



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Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:27 pm

grizbeer wrote:BTW BAC I thought we already had the discussion about Montana being a leach on the rest of the nation, and it isn't so much that Montana is a bum as it is the Federal government paying for Federal assets and programs (Federally owned land, CRP and farm support, SS, etc)?
Outside of the federally owned land maintenance (which mostly does go into Montanans pockets, so it really can't be entirely excluded), it is still a federal subsidy. We can explain the programs that lead to that happening, but in the end, it is still wealth redistribution from wealthier states to the less wealthy states (in general, blue states to red states). Yeah, it was off-topic, so I'm sorry for bringing that dead horse up again. I don't want to sidetrack the topic.

The only reason I brought it up was the federal highway funding argument, and you answered that. If Montana truly wants to live by rules that clash with the rest of the country, it would simply have to be self-sufficient tax-wise.

And, in general, I agree with you in terms of state's rights, except in cases on discrimination (I'm in favor of the feds working to end discrimination, contrary to our current political environment).

However, in terms of this law, I think it's just a smart law and offers no slipperly slope. People shouldn't drink and drive ... it's that simple in my mind. With no keys in hand, I think people should drink until they don't know their own names.



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Post by grizbeer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:46 pm

We are actaully pretty close in our views on this BAC, i just have less trust in the insurance institutes and think MADD has lost their way. I truly do beleive that this law is more about hysteria than actaully saving lives, but it probably won't have much impact on my life either way.



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Post by grizbeer » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:19 am

El Gato add flying carp to the list of things that can hurt you. :shock:
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.ph ... oors_v.inc

Image
Last edited by grizbeer on Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by Bleedinbluengold » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:20 am

Cat Grad wrote:Well, here is a thought as this seems to be evolving into a thread on state's rights--how do ya'll feel about the 9th circuits decision as to Arizona's right to limit out of state hunters (and charge foreigners more?) Several times I've read where eastern senators have considered federal licenses on federal land and would take the management of fish and game out of state control, similar to Indian Reservations and National Parks.
That's what I was referring to when I brought up the 14th Amendment, BUT I was mistaken, and actually meant the 16th Amendment. When the 16th Amendment was adopted, it virtually eliminated the concept of State's Rights, and more or less flipped the 9th Amendment upside down. The 9th Amendment was intended to stipulate that the 'people' retain other rights not specifically listed in the Bill of Rights and also those not specifically given to the Government by the people.

So, basically, the slippery slope started almost as soon as there became a Federal Government. Interestingly enough, there was a significant faction that opposed ratification of the Constitution because they believed that the Federal Government would assert authority in every area not specifically assigned to the people in the Bill of Rights. The 9th Amendment was supposed to circumvent that from happening, but as we now see, the fear of those who opposed ratification has come to pass.



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Post by grizbeer » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:13 pm

El Gato I guess we need to add Caterpillar bulldozers to the dangerous list of items that need to be banned:
They also say a Caterpillar bulldozer ran over and killed an Evergreen State College student, Rachel Corrie, while she was protesting the demolition of a Palestinian home in the Gaza Strip two years ago. Her death has prompted her parents to sue Caterpillar Inc.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/220 ... lar14.html



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Post by Cat-theotherwhitemeat » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:35 pm

You can add a girl I knew in college. We called her Big Fat Betty. She damn near killed me. :shock: "Get off me Betty, I can't breathe!" :wink:


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Post by mquast53000 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:19 pm

Cat-theotherwhitemeat wrote:You can add a girl I knew in college. We called her Big Fat Betty. She damn near killed me. :shock: "Get off me Betty, I can't breathe!" :wink:
In poor taste CTOWM… :oops:


FTG

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Cat-theotherwhitemeat
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Post by Cat-theotherwhitemeat » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:27 pm

mquast53000 wrote:
Cat-theotherwhitemeat wrote:You can add a girl I knew in college. We called her Big Fat Betty. She damn near killed me. :shock: "Get off me Betty, I can't breathe!" :wink:
In poor taste CTOWM… :oops:
Sorry...... :oops: :oops: :oops:


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thepast123
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Re: Drinking & Driving

Post by thepast123 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:15 am

mquast53000 wrote:
No more drinking and driving in Mont.
Governor to sign law outlawing a cold one behind the wheelThe Associated Press
Updated: 4:50 p.m. ET April 8, 2005HELENA, Mont. - Some Montana motorists, the joke goes, measure distances driven by how many beers they can down along the way. But the long-cherished right to have a cold one behind the wheel is about to end.

advertisement

State lawmakers passed an open-container ban Friday that makes Montana one of the last states to outlaw drinking while driving.

The Montana House approved the bill 76-21 and sent it to Gov. Brian Schweitzer, who has said he will sign it. It takes effect Oct. 1.

Getting used to prohibition
The delay is designed to let Montanans get used to the prohibition, which until now had been found only in cities and towns, not out on the open highway.

Only Mississippi now lacks a state law against open containers, though many cities and counties there also prohibit open containers locally dui Online classes Nevada.

While Montana had stood to lose $5 million a year in federal highway funds if it failed to pass the law, the debate focused on balancing safety and personal freedom.

Montana has the highest rate of alcohol-related deaths, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Cultural change
“This is one of those laws that will start the cultural change that we need on the highways of Montana. We hope that just the existence of the law will make a difference,” said Lt. Col. Mike Tooley, deputy chief of the Montana Highway Patrol.

University of Montana sociologist Jim Burfeind said the state’s holdout status was understandable, given the long, lonely drives often required when only 927,000 people live in a state the size of New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio combined.

“We think we’re a very different place than other places and that we don’t have to run by the rules that other people have to in more congested areas,” Burfeind said.

To muster enough support for the bill, supporters accepted what some consider weak penalties for violations. A driver caught with an open container faces a $100 fine, and the offense does not show up on a person’s driving record.
Hello
The Dangers of Drinking and Driving.
Alcohol affects you in a way that changes your judgment, depth perception as well as vital motor skills required to drive safely. Its easy to think you are driving normally when truly you are not. When the police take notice you could be hit with a DUI/DWI. This is the best case scenario. Getting into an accident your life could be lost as well as any others who too are involved in this accident. According to 2009 drunk driving statistics there were 10,839 traffic fatalities in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes. This is those whose lives were lost not the total number of alcohol related accidents, or the number of individuals arrested for drinking and driving.

Is drinking and driving more important than your legal status or life? Take a cab, protect yourself as well as others on the roadways, don’t become another drinking and driving statistic. Operating a motor vehicle while sober can be difficult in itself, adding alcohol or other intoxicants into the mix are putting your life and the lives of others on the roadways at risk. Make the right choice and put your keys down.



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Re: Drinking & Driving

Post by gtapp » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:28 pm

thepast123 wrote:
mquast53000 wrote:
No more drinking and driving in Mont.
Governor to sign law outlawing a cold one behind the wheelThe Associated Press
Updated: 4:50 p.m. ET April 8, 2005HELENA, Mont. - Some Montana motorists, the joke goes, measure distances driven by how many beers they can down along the way. But the long-cherished right to have a cold one behind the wheel is about to end.

advertisement

State lawmakers passed an open-container ban Friday that makes Montana one of the last states to outlaw drinking while driving.

The Montana House approved the bill 76-21 and sent it to Gov. Brian Schweitzer, who has said he will sign it. It takes effect Oct. 1.

Getting used to prohibition
The delay is designed to let Montanans get used to the prohibition, which until now had been found only in cities and towns, not out on the open highway.

Only Mississippi now lacks a state law against open containers, though many cities and counties there also prohibit open containers locally dui Online classes Nevada.

While Montana had stood to lose $5 million a year in federal highway funds if it failed to pass the law, the debate focused on balancing safety and personal freedom.

Montana has the highest rate of alcohol-related deaths, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Cultural change
“This is one of those laws that will start the cultural change that we need on the highways of Montana. We hope that just the existence of the law will make a difference,” said Lt. Col. Mike Tooley, deputy chief of the Montana Highway Patrol.

University of Montana sociologist Jim Burfeind said the state’s holdout status was understandable, given the long, lonely drives often required when only 927,000 people live in a state the size of New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio combined.

“We think we’re a very different place than other places and that we don’t have to run by the rules that other people have to in more congested areas,” Burfeind said.

To muster enough support for the bill, supporters accepted what some consider weak penalties for violations. A driver caught with an open container faces a $100 fine, and the offense does not show up on a person’s driving record.
Hello
The Dangers of Drinking and Driving.
Alcohol affects you in a way that changes your judgment, depth perception as well as vital motor skills required to drive safely. Its easy to think you are driving normally when truly you are not. When the police take notice you could be hit with a DUI/DWI. This is the best case scenario. Getting into an accident your life could be lost as well as any others who too are involved in this accident. According to 2009 drunk driving statistics there were 10,839 traffic fatalities in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes. This is those whose lives were lost not the total number of alcohol related accidents, or the number of individuals arrested for drinking and driving.

Is drinking and driving more important than your legal status or life? Take a cab, protect yourself as well as others on the roadways, don’t become another drinking and driving statistic. Operating a motor vehicle while sober can be difficult in itself, adding alcohol or other intoxicants into the mix are putting your life and the lives of others on the roadways at risk. Make the right choice and put your keys down.
I think your missing the point. We have a law in every state that you can't drive if you are over .08 BAC. That should be the law. Who cares if you are drinking and driving as long as you are under that limit. It is not different than drinking water. Again, as long as you are under the limit you are legally operating the vehicle. You don't need two laws to prevent the same behavior.


Gary Tapp
Graduated MSU 1981
Hamilton High School
Minneapolis, MN

bobcat99
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Re: Drinking & Driving

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:25 am

Gary, this thread is from 2005 and got bumped by a bot. Just ignore it.



orsalak
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Re: Drinking & Driving

Post by orsalak » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:31 pm

bobcat99 wrote:Gary, this thread is from 2005 and got bumped by a bot. Just ignore it.
Coincident? http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/ ... /96723558/


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