Giambi comes clean (as if we didn't know...)...

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:49 pm

Now that Jason Giambi's testimony has come out regarding his use of steroids & other various "performance enhancers", does ANYONE still believe that we should EVER mention the name BARRY BONDS again?

To praise Bonds the way ESPN et al has done the past few years is a disgrace to the game and to GREAT players like Mays, Ruth, and Aaron.

I've never really understood why guys like Barry, Giambi, & Sammy didn't just go "pee in the cup" in the face of all the accusations they've been confronted with the past few years...

Check that, I DO understand why they didn't want to be publicly tested: THEY'RE DIRTY!

Bonds #'s the past 5 years are total BULLSH.IT and any record(s) he achieved during that time should be stricken from ALL official record-keeping sources.

It's amazing to me that a guy like BB could be so DESPERATE to be known as "the greatest player of all time" that he would knowingly CHEAT in order to achieve that goal. How could you live with yourself & all the accolades you received when you KNEW the only way you earned them was by cheating? He must be like OJ; he's been lying to himself for so long, he can't really even comprehend the truth anymore...

Giambi's "confession" is the first step in finally revealing what a lot of us have known for a very long time but for some reason, the baseball "gurus" and the media have chosen to ignore and/or forgive:
BARRY BONDS IS A CHEATER & A DISGRACE TO BASEBALL AND ALL SPORTS.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:28 pm

Couldn't agree more Gato. I like to look back at film of Barry in Pittsburgh or Sammy in his younger years when they were both skinny guys and now look at what they look like. I also find it funny how Barry so adamently denies using steroids and I would guess 90% of sports fans think he did/does. Baseball's substance abuse policy is a joke and guys like this are making records that mean a lot to the game worthless.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:31 pm

They had steroid testing this season. Bonds didn't test positive. His performance stayed at a very high level (one of the best offensive seasons of all time). What now?

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:44 pm

The way I understood the substance abuse policy, the public wouldn't be informed of the results - positive or negative. Besides, can you honestly say you don't think Bonds has been on steroids at one time or another during his career?

Sounds like it is time for a poll Gato - what do you think? How many people think Bonds is or at least was on roids?

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:55 pm

Bay,

Read the article and you'll see that some of this new stuff was designed to be "undetectable". Plus I'm not really sure what MLB's drug testing scheme was and what all the ramifications were. Obviously, Giambi was using; if he was tested, why didn't we hear about it?

Grow up & admit it, bay, BONDS IS DIRTY. Ask yourself this one simple question: If you were in his shoes & tons of people were accusing you of cheating and you WEREN'T and you could PROVE that you weren't simply by peeing in a cup, wouldn't you have done so?

The prosecution rests on that one simple question, your honor...

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:56 pm

WYCAT wrote:The way I understood the substance abuse policy, the public wouldn't be informed of the results - positive or negative. Besides, can you honestly say you don't think Bonds has been on steroids at one time or another during his career?

Sounds like it is time for a poll Gato - what do you think? How many people think Bonds is or at least was on roids?

In light of all of the Balco stuff, it seems like there probably is a pretty good chance that he did. Whether he knowingly did or not seems to be in question as well (at least according to Sheffield's statements about not realizing that the creme was anything more than a topical substance to help his injuries).

Bonds has gotten bigger with age, but it has never been a dramatic jump as many people think. He's always been a big guy, and he does work out all year long. How much of his size/strength is due to roids, if any? I don't really know, but I'm assuming that it isn't the main driver. People do get thicker when they get older. Most of us just get fat as a result, but if we worked out as much as Bonds, maybe we'd bulk up a lot as well.

The whole roids conversation aside, there has never been a ballplayer with a better eye or better hand/eye coordination than Bonds (neither of which benefit from steroids), and he is a pure joy to watch, especially in person. I honestly hope he didn't do roids -- it would be a shame if he did. But roids or not, he is a great, great player.

If he had tested positive during this season, I have no doubt that we would know about it. If he was on them before, he is certainly off of them now. Before the season, the Bonds critics were anticipating that this season he would drop off the cliff as they asserted that his numbers were roid assisted. When he maintained his level of play, those theories started to fall by the wayside, and that's a large part of why the press is starting to warm back up to him. Lots of other guys DID tank this season (Sosa and Giambi in particular), but with Bonds not showing any effects at all, even with the testing in place, I think he won back a lot of fans among the baseball community.

Giambi's admission is interesting. I kind of knew about this a couple months ago indirectly. My friend's brother was one of the doctors that examined him for his recurring mystery ailments, and he told us that his body was just shot -- the effects of steroid use. We were told that his career was pretty much over.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:58 pm

And when Bonds body dies on him like Giambi's, what will you say then, bay?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:02 pm

El_Gato wrote:And when Bonds body dies on him like Giambi's, what will you say then, bay?

If Bonds body breaks down, and it is steroid related, then I will say that Bonds did steroids and they broke down his body.

Of course, he is 40, and his body is performing at a higher level and with fewer injuries than most people half his age, so the current evidence actually contradicts the theory that he has been on the juice for years. Time will tell.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:16 pm

And just as every "body" is different, so too is every bodies' reaction to the same treatment, chemical, food, etc...

It's amazing to me that you would accept the notion that this "personal trainer" would give these products to Giambi & other "clients" and NOT to Bonds? Or that Barry's "unbelievable" numbers really started piling up AFTER he started using said trainer?

You really need a wake up call.

As one sportscaster put it: "I will accept that Bonds isn't on steroids when he shows me what exercise he performs to increase the size of HIS HEAD."

Seriously, we've all seen how his body has "grown" with age; but take a close look at his melon. I bet he's pushing 2 hat sizes bigger than when he was a Pirate, and I'm not talking about his EGO.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:16 pm

And OJ is innocent too

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:20 pm

Yeah, I often find myself wondering how that whole "search for the real killers" thing is coming along...

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:26 pm

I already admitted that I think that he probably did do them at some point in his career. I don't know for sure if he did or not, but the public evidence certainly points in that direction. As for the head thing... I've heard a lot of people mention that. It's a good sound bite. Whether it's true or means anything is another story. (Do steroids increase the size of one's head? I have no idea).

All I am saying is that I still think that he is a great player, and his most recent season, in which the evidence suggests that he was not on juice, even if he was previously, was outstanding. I love to watch him play, and I just can't apologize for that.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:54 pm

El_Gato wrote:I've never really understood why guys like Barry, Giambi, & Sammy didn't just go "pee in the cup" in the face of all the accusations they've been confronted with the past few years...

Check that, I DO understand why they didn't want to be publicly tested: THEY'RE DIRTY!...

...It's amazing to me that a guy like BB could be so DESPERATE to be known as "the greatest player of all time" that he would knowingly CHEAT in order to achieve that goal. How could you live with yourself & all the accolades you received when you KNEW the only way you earned them was by cheating?

El G - If you were a $1 million/year guy and a good player and I told you that I could make you a $20 million/year guy and a GREAT player, if not one of the greatest, and all it cost you was 10 years of your life span, what would you do? If the answer is "nothing" then my hat's off (and I don't believe you). But my guess is that over 90% of the people would take the money and the accolades and gladly trade 10 years of their life span.

The ESPN radio guy this morning hit the nail on the head. WE live in the reality world, with rules and laws that protect us from ourselves. MLB lives in the 'other' world. You should save some digust for MLB, too.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:58 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:They had steroid testing this season. Bonds didn't test positive. His performance stayed at a very high level (one of the best offensive seasons of all time). What now?

I'd call it "faith."

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:05 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:They had steroid testing this season. Bonds didn't test positive. His performance stayed at a very high level (one of the best offensive seasons of all time). What now?
I'd call it "faith."

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I was hoping nobody else would pick up on that. Ironic, isn't it? The strange idols we place before us....

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:08 pm

I was hoping you'd take it as intended!

geogfather · Post by **geogfather** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:59 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
The whole roids conversation aside, there has never been a ballplayer with a better eye or better hand/eye coordination than Bonds (neither of which benefit from steroids),.

Two Words...... TED WILLIAMS!

A few more words.....
In his defense I would say that Bonds walks come more from the fact that people dont pitch to him. However, he is probably the most Patient hitter I have seen, maybe ever.

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:33 pm

I would say the better hand-eye is questionable. Three come to mind for me: Joe D, Tony G, Ted W.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:08 pm

Joe D couldn't even keep Marilyn happy -- so his eye-hand coordination might have been even less than the Kennedy's. That ain't good.

Okay, maybe that is a bit of a reach.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:05 am

blue (aka bay area),

I've been following the story tonight on ESPN in depth & the so-called "testing" you want to use to defend BB this season NEVER HAPPENED. Selig tried to institute some basic testing but the players union effectively neutered it to the point that it was meaningless.

It appears that some users, like Giambi, were worried that the testing might actually commence this season, so they quit using. Hmmm, that couldn't have anything to do with JG's 25 pound loss in the off-season, could it? Bonds obviously felt that the testing WOULD NOT take effect and stayed on the stuff THAT HE NOW IS ADMITTING HE TOOK; explaining it away as though he didn't really know what he was taking. Oh, by the way, the stuff he was using was designed to be UNDETECTABLE anyway, which may be another explanation as to why he didn't stop this year. Just watch his body shrink if Bud is successful in getting some TRUE testing in place.

Great hero you've picked out for yourself, blue. If you have sons, I hope they find a better role model. Try Tim Duncan or John Olerud or even Brett Favre, who at least fessed up to his "demons" and now is one of the most celebrated athletes of our time...

BB may very well have gone down as one of the best of all-time but his cheating, his denials, and his "piss on all of you" attitude will always hang him with one simple label in my book: Bonds is a turd. The fact that you (and far too many like you) can essentially admit that you believe he cheated and still hold him in reverance is another sign that in sports, "the apocalypse is upon us..."

Giambi comes clean (as if we didn't know...)...

Giambi comes clean (as if we didn't know...)...

Re: Giambi comes clean (as if we didn't know...)...