Giambi comes clean (as if we didn't know...)...

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:01 am

Here is a little article on Barry. Sounds like he knows the jig is up so now his defense is he didn't know the stuff he was using was steroids. He thought it was arthritis cream?

In my opinion all of the records he has set recently are worthless and I hope he doesn't break Hank Aaron's 755 mark. That would be a true shame.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/b ... index.html

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:25 am

This is all coming from the same testimony to the Grand Jury that happened before this last season -- the same testimony that Giambi's statements came from. It sounds like he came clean to the authorities a long time ago -- it just didn't get leaked until recently.

This supports the idea that he was at least clean during 2004, which I hope is true. Sheffield said the same thing about not knowing that the cream was steroids. They might be lying, and they might be telling the truth -- I don't know.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:31 am

I am not buying the "I didn't know" logic. What person would put crap in their body without knowing what it is? Especially someone who depends on their body for their livelihood. Nope, Bonds is a liar, cheater, and turd and his name belongs nowhere in the record books alongside Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, etc. And even if he was off the juice in 2004 does that somehow exonerate him? What a loser.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:33 am

El_Gato wrote:blue (aka bay area),

I've been following the story tonight on ESPN in depth & the so-called "testing" you want to use to defend BB this season NEVER HAPPENED. Selig tried to institute some basic testing but the players union effectively neutered it to the point that it was meaningless.

It appears that some users, like Giambi, were worried that the testing might actually commence this season, so they quit using. Hmmm, that couldn't have anything to do with JG's 25 pound loss in the off-season, could it? Bonds obviously felt that the testing WOULD NOT take effect and stayed on the stuff THAT HE NOW IS ADMITTING HE TOOK; explaining it away as though he didn't really know what he was taking. Oh, by the way, the stuff he was using was designed to be UNDETECTABLE anyway, which may be another explanation as to why he didn't stop this year. Just watch his body shrink if Bud is successful in getting some TRUE testing in place.

Great hero you've picked out for yourself, blue. If you have sons, I hope they find a better role model. Try Tim Duncan or John Olerud or even Brett Favre, who at least fessed up to his "demons" and now is one of the most celebrated athletes of our time...

BB may very well have gone down as one of the best of all-time but his cheating, his denials, and his "piss on all of you" attitude will always hang him with one simple label in my book: Bonds is a turd. The fact that you (and far too many like you) can essentially admit that you believe he cheated and still hold him in reverance is another sign that in sports, "the apocalypse is upon us..."

El Gato:

Well, I was the drama queen yesterday, and it looks like you are claiming that crown today. The day that I hold anyone in "reverance" or look at someone as a "role model" or "hero" when their only claim to fame is that they are, in the words of Homer Simpson "a good guy at sports," that day will truly be the Chicken Little day when we can all lift the SI line and say that the "acocaplypse is upon us."

I like to watch the guy swing a stick at a ball. It's just a children's game played by millionaires that brings me a little joy when I wander a couple blocks to a beautiful ballpark on a mellow summer day. Get over it... there are much more important things in the world -- at least in my life. If you want to take shots at me for something, make it something a bit more meaningful than this.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:43 am

WYCAT wrote:I am not buying the "I didn't know" logic. What person would put crap in their body without knowing what it is? Especially someone who depends on their body for their livelihood. Nope, Bonds is a liar, cheater, and turd and his name belongs nowhere in the record books alongside Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, etc. And even if he was off the juice in 2004 does that somehow exonerate him? What a loser.

No, it would not exonerate him. It would simply be nice if it was true, so that it would show that his 2004 performance was not aided by any supplements.

And, technically, he didn't put crap "in" his body -- he put it "on" his body. I'm certainly not an expert in the field of steroids, but it's at least plausible to assume that an athlete would be less likely to question something they were applying topically as opposed to, say, as a shot from a syringe in the ass muscle. The topical cream seems to be a relatively new concept. They all may well have known exactly what was in it and are just using the "I didn't know" as an out. I just don't have the ability to read their minds or apply lie detector tests.

All this said, I still like watching Bonds swing a bat at a baseball. It's fun.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:21 pm

Here's an interesting opinion piece on the topic:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... A5UFU1.DTL

And here's a lengthy article about the leaked grand jury tesitmony itself:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... 0UDU65.DTL

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:18 pm

Blue,

I've had enough of your condescension, back-tracking, and double-talk. You should look into politics; you obviously think enough of yourself that I feel you'd be GREAT at it.

I took a few minutes to read a # of your posts, and I've decided it's really not worth trying to exchange ideas with someone who knows they already have all the answers and those of us who differ are simply ignorant, misguided boobs...

Happy holidays!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:29 pm

El_Gato wrote:Blue,

I've had enough of your condescension, back-tracking, and double-talk. You should look into politics; you obviously think enough of yourself that I feel you'd be GREAT at it.

I took a few minutes to read a # of your posts, and I've decided it's really not worth trying to exchange ideas with someone who knows they already have all the answers and those of us who differ are simply ignorant, misguided boobs...

Happy holidays!

Wow. You're really trying to live up to my drama queen crack (which is understandable -- I was there yesterday myself, as I noted), aren't you? What did I say in any of my posts in this thread that back up your statements? All I've said is, basically, ummm, I don't know if he did or didn't, but I still like to watch him play. All the while, you're going into a tizzy and seemingly questioning my integrity as a human being because I won't join you in calling Bonds a bunch of names.

And, just to be sure you understand, my handle is not "blue." I don't call you any names that you haven't chosen, and it seems appropriate that you would reciprocate. That is, if you are interested in exchanging ideas and not just lofting (intended, but not landing) insults.

And if you really, really detest condescension as much as you claim, you might want to examine your post to me (the one where I was belittled for not hating Bonds) and hurriedly be off for your self-flagellation.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:47 pm

And of all of the threads for a pissy comment exchange, how did we end up doing it in this one? This is about as from an emotional topic as I can think of. Good thing we weren't debating favorite Hanna-Barbara cartoon characters or something -- it could have gotten really ugly.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:51 pm

And welcome to the plate batting 4th is ......... BARRY BALKO BONDS!

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:14 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
WYCAT wrote:I am not buying the "I didn't know" logic. What person would put crap in their body without knowing what it is? Especially someone who depends on their body for their livelihood. Nope, Bonds is a liar, cheater, and turd and his name belongs nowhere in the record books alongside Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, etc. And even if he was off the juice in 2004 does that somehow exonerate him? What a loser.
No, it would not exonerate him. It would simply be nice if it was true, so that it would show that his 2004 performance was not aided by any supplements.

And, technically, he didn't put crap "in" his body -- he put it "on" his body. I'm certainly not an expert in the field of steroids, but it's at least plausible to assume that an athlete would be less likely to question something they were applying topically as opposed to, say, as a shot from a syringe in the ass muscle. The topical cream seems to be a relatively new concept. They all may well have known exactly what was in it and are just using the "I didn't know" as an out. I just don't have the ability to read their minds or apply lie detector tests.

All this said, I still like watching Bonds swing a bat at a baseball. It's fun.

I believe he said that he did take "the clear" which is put in your body and not on it based on Giambi's testimony.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:21 pm

DCC2MSU wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
WYCAT wrote:I am not buying the "I didn't know" logic. What person would put crap in their body without knowing what it is? Especially someone who depends on their body for their livelihood. Nope, Bonds is a liar, cheater, and turd and his name belongs nowhere in the record books alongside Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, etc. And even if he was off the juice in 2004 does that somehow exonerate him? What a loser.
No, it would not exonerate him. It would simply be nice if it was true, so that it would show that his 2004 performance was not aided by any supplements.

And, technically, he didn't put crap "in" his body -- he put it "on" his body. I'm certainly not an expert in the field of steroids, but it's at least plausible to assume that an athlete would be less likely to question something they were applying topically as opposed to, say, as a shot from a syringe in the ass muscle. The topical cream seems to be a relatively new concept. They all may well have known exactly what was in it and are just using the "I didn't know" as an out. I just don't have the ability to read their minds or apply lie detector tests.

All this said, I still like watching Bonds swing a bat at a baseball. It's fun.
I believe he said that he did take "the clear" which is put in your body and not on it based on Giambi's testimony.

I might be losing track of the various things I've tried to speed read today, but I thought the article from the SF Chronicle that I linked to said that Bonds testified that everything he did was topical. I seem to remember one article saying that the clear could be taken under the tongue (which is obviously in the body, so that would support your assertion)? Does that sound right? Anyway, I seemed to remember Bonds claiming that he only did topical stuff, but I could be wrong.

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:22 pm

I can honestly say that I don't care much for Bonds, but this started long before the steroid issue. I think we had talked about this in a previous post, but I don't like him because I don't think he plays the game right. And though I am a Yankees fan, I was never really a fan of Giambi because I liked Tino and Giambi is the reason he is gone. For the record I don't think much of Sheffield either so I'm not sure what I would/will think of the Steroid debate if it becomes an issue for a player I appreciate. That is a pretty valid question, but I really can't see myself supporting anyone that uses steroids. Now if word comes out the Donny Baseball or Bernie Williams used steroids, that theory will be tested.

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:25 pm

Bonds told a U.S. grand jury that he used undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," which he received from personal trainer Greg Anderson during the 2003 season. According to Bonds, the trainer told him the substances were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a pain-relieving balm for the player's arthritis.

This post came from ESPN.com - I don't want to pass it off as my own!

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:33 pm

If he thought it was flaxseed oil, I don't think he would have applied it to his body. Isn't it only supposed to be beneficial through ingestion? I also wondered why he would have a secret drug test through Anderson because he didn't trust baseball. If he was clean, but baseball was out to get him did he think the test he did through balco would indicate that? The only reason I can see for him taking that test is he knew something was up. If baseball tested him and he was found positive, couldn't he just submit a public sample and clear his name pretty easy? I know they all say the union won't let them, but he is a big enough name to buck the union when his rep is on the line. Damon Stoudamire did it and he isn't even close to meaning as much to basketball as Bonds is to baseball. I think Stoudamire got slapped on the wrist by the union and that was it.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:38 pm

Yeah, the whole thing is pretty suspect. Oh to be a fly on the wall in that training room. I doubt we'll ever really know for sure what the truth of the matter is.

BWahlberg · Post by **BWahlberg** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:49 pm

Dan Patrick on ESPN radio spoke exactly what I was thinking with the Gary Sheffield Steriods incident, and now with Barry's.

Both claim they didn't know that what they were using was steriods. In Barry's case this trainer with BALCO who I guess has been Barry's best friend since grade school offered him this, and Barry didn't ask him what it was, he just say, "yeah whatever".

If you look at Barry's routine, what he eats how he trains, the supplements he takes every day. There is no way he would not know what he's putting into his body. He has a personal cook, trainer, and dietician (sp?). I find it almost impossible to believe he just took something with out asking what it is.

Rob/Ron/Rex Dibble on the show had a few examples of how most people are in everyday life. Say a friend buys you a shot or a mixed drink at a bar and you don't know whats in it. What's the 1st thing you ask usually, "Whats in this?" Or if your at dinner with your wife and she offers you something off her plate to taste, if you don't know what it is you usually ask, "whats in it?"

If people do that with food and shots etc etc etc then there is no way a guy who knows exactly what is going into his body all day long would just take some clear or cream that he doesn't know what it is.