The link is much more compact:'93HonoluluCat wrote:So many comments, so little time--but let's see what I can do.Velo, I've never criticized your stances. I may have disagreed with them, and offered alternate views, but that does not justify slandering me because I don't find the same things "funny" as you.velochat wrote:
Some folks have an ashcroftian dislike of free speech. Of course, one can justify virtually anything with a quote from the bible.I do not disapprove of humorous jabs at officials in office, as long as they are 1) clean; 2) reasonable; and 3) not malicious. Within those three personal rules, I don't care whether the President is Republican, Democrat or from Mars. I merely mentioned to BACs original posting that I thought it wasn't funny. I also thought it odd that he would take such a jab after repeatedly berating posters for making statements belittling (as opposed to discussing) other views.wbtfg wrote:
HC- It seems to me that you are against anyone poking any fun at the president. Bush (like all presidents) has made mistakes and has some messed up views on a few issues. Why can't we make fun of them? Are you against criticizing all presidents...or just republican presidents?
Well, all you had to do was ask...BAC wrote:
I would have expected you to have a series of bullet points justifying Bush's beliefs and contrasting it to the other Biblical references.
First off, though, I must point out that I abhor any person that uses their faith as a basis of discrimination. The Bible calls us to care for our neighbors, but condemn the sins they commit. Unfortunately, many in the Christian faith have trouble discerning the difference.
Off we go...This verse (and all the others posted by BAC in the "open letter" is a part of a group of hundreds of rules and regulations called the Law. It is important to note that this group of rules is always referred to in the singular form such as: the Law of Moses, the Law of the Lord, the Law of God, the Book of the Law or simply the Law. This Law is contained in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Jesus said: "It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law." (Luke 16:17) These rules were to be taken as one Law. It's all or nothing.BAC posted:
Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.
Let's look at some of the rules of the Law found in Leviticus. Chapters 1-7 has rules about the different kinds of offerings and sacrifices that were to be made in preparation for worship. Chapters 8-10 has rules for the priests regarding offerings, sacrifices, and other priestly duties. Chapter 11 has rules about clean and unclean foods. For example you will find that pork and shrimp are abomination but it's OK to eat beetles, locusts and grasshoppers. Chapter 12 has rules about purification of a woman after childbirth and the circumcision of males is a must. Chapters 13-14 has rules related to skin disorders from leprosy to scabby stuff like dandruff, eczema and zits. Chapter 15 has rules about purification of women after their period and for men with seminal discharges. Chapter 16 has more priestly rules Chapter 17 has rules about not consuming blood. Chapter 18 has rules about sex. Chapter 19 has rules about dealing fairly with others, crossbreeding of animals and crops is not allowed (No tangelos allowed and Tropicana twisters are a synthetic sin). Mixed fabrics are a no-no! (no polyester or cotton blends), no cutting of sideburns or trimming of beards, when you plant a tree you are to avoid eating its fruit for three years. Chapter 20 has more rules about sex...if a man has sex with a woman on her period they are both to be cut off from the people and that if a couple commits adultery they are both to be put to death. Chapter 25 has rules about not lending money to a country man with interest, and we are not to sell food at a profit. My favorite law is in Deuteronomy 15:1 "At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts."
We can go on and on. These laws have to do with being clean or unclean and about keeping yourself from being cut off from the people. Clean or unclean for what? Cut off from the congregation? Why?Israel was to be a kingdom of priests. The function of a priest is to lead in worship and offer sacrifices to God on behalf of sinners. So, this was the function of the Israelites. This was the reason they were called by God. They had to be set apart from the other nations or consecrated in order to be purified for worshiping and serving a Holy God. In Leviticus 20:7,8 He said to them, "'Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy. (NIV)In the third month after the Israelites left Egypt-- on the very day-- they came to the Desert of Sinai. After they set out from Rephidim, they entered the Desert of Sinai, and Israel camped there in the desert in front of the mountain. Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain and said, "This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 'You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."
Exodus 19:1-6 (NIV)
When you read the Law you will find that the only way to really be purified for worship was by the blood of a lamb, sheep, goat or bull. In Hebrews 9:22 we read: In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Once they were purified for worship they worshiped at a special place in the center of their community called the Tabernacle. The heart of the Tabernacle was a room called the Holy of Holies or the Most Holy Place. The heart of the Holy of Holies was the Ark of the Covenant. The lid of the Ark of the covenant was the Mercy Seat. The plans for this tabernacle were given by God in great detail.They were to follow these details with accuracy. This accuracy was very important because the tabernacle was an earthly copy of the Tabernacle in heaven.I want the people of Israel to build me a sacred residence where I can live among them. You must make this Tabernacle and its furnishings exactly according to the plans I will show you.
Exodus 25:8-9 (NLT)The Tabernacle was a model of the throne room of God and the Mercy Seat was His throne! The only person that was allowed to enter the Most Holy Place was the High Priest. All of these laws and all of the ritualistic cleaning and all of the sacrificial blood had a purpose. It was so that the High Priest could enter into the Holy of Holies where more blood was sprinkled so that God would forgive the people of sin and accept their worship.Their work is connected with a mere earthly model of the real tabernacle in heaven; for when Moses was getting ready to build the tabernacle, God warned him to follow exactly the pattern of the heavenly tabernacle as shown to him on Mount Sinai.
Hebrews 8:5 (TLB)
To enter the Most Holy Place the High Priest had to go through a curtain or veil. While Jesus was on earth the Law was still in effect. However, the moment he died the Law was fulfilled. Upon His death, the curtain that symbolized the separation between us and God was ripped open from top to bottom.These curtains were over 40 feet high and they were thick. They were torn by God from top to bottom. From that moment on the Holy of Holies, symbolic of God's throne room, was no longer closed off to us. Now, we can approach God with confidence and without fear of being "unclean" because the blood of Jesus was shed for us. No longer do we need the blood of goats, sheep or bulls to be right with God. The blood of Jesus is the only lasting sacrifice required. There is no longer a need for "the Law of Moses" as it has been fulfilled in Jesus. We say that Jesus fulfilled the Law because the purpose of the Law was to gain forgiveness for the people.And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. Matthew 27:50, 51 (NIV)
Now, when we believe in this blood of Jesus Christ, we are made clean or righteous by this faith and NOT by observing the Law. If observing the Law made us right with God or righteous, then Jesus would have died for nothing.Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:19-23 (NIV)Since we are righteous or right with God we can freely and with confidence go into His very throne room and He is also free to walk among us.I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
Galatians 2:21 (NIV)God's purpose was to show his wisdom in all its rich variety to all the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms. They will see this when Jews and Gentiles are joined together in his church. This was his plan from all eternity, and it has now been carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord. because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come fearlessly into God's presence, assured of his glad welcome.
Ephesians 3:10-12 (NLT)Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16 (NIV)You can't believe that Jesus died for you if you are bound by the Law and believe that you are an abomination worthy of death. If you abide by the Law then you are saying that the death of Christ means nothing to you and that is exactly what Satan wants you to believe!!! But we know that "Satan is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44)What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.
2 Corinthians 6:16(NIV)
Romans 6:14 says that we "are no longer under the law but under grace." The concept of grace is very simple. It has nothing to do with what you did or do or will do. The concept of grace has to do with what God has already done and why He did it! You see, God so loved the world (that's you and me) that He gave His one and only Son, Jesus, so that "whosoever" (you and me, again) shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Okay for those that just want the "Cliff Notes" version of my post (and those that think my posts are too long--that's you velochat), I'll give you the bottom line.
The Law--remember, the first five books of the Bible--was given to us prior to Christ's birth. It's purpose was to tell us how to live our lives to be Godly people. When we failed, the Law told us how to reconcile our sins so that we could commune with God again--through sacrifices of animals or other commodities.
When Christ was sent to the earth by God, Christ's mission was to be the sacrifice for us. Once He was crucified and buried, He paid the price for the sins of everyone. When He was resurrected, He triumphed over death, and allowed all of us who accept His gift (of payment for our sins) to live in Heaven.
The Law as contained in Leviticus and Exodus, et al, may sound corny and obtuse to our "modern" society, but it was relavant and meaningful to society in 100 B.C. We live, on the other hand, in a time where the Lamb has been sacrificed, and we can live according to Romans 6:14.
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