A Day Without Immigrants

[SonomaCat]

Yes....but our ancestors came over LEGALLY. If they are not willing to go through the proper chanels to get here whats that say. They are either: A- Too lazy, or B- Have reasons for not wanting the government to know they are here.

Of the most obvious and common one: C -- they don't have that option because we have closed the door on most immigrants after we got here.

And our ancestors did (for most the part, but not always) come over legally. But that's because the borders were essentially wide open (unless you weren't white).

Illegal immigration is a problem ... but in my opinion, it is largely a function of us having squeezed off legal immigration well in excess of what we should have. Clearly, if there are that many illegal immigrants here, and our unemployment rate is as low as it is, we actually needed more legal immigrants.

[DriftCat]

My wife and her family all came over legally. It took them 15 years of paperwork to get out of a communist country but they did it. The point is that it should be hard to become a citizen of this great country because in my opinion not everyone is worthy of it (some Americans included, say Bear Bac for example .) The other problem is that the "American dream" has changed drastically from the days of our ancestors. Instead of coming over to work hard and be self-sufficient, it is now changed to free handouts for everyone.

[SonomaCat]

Instead of coming over to work hard and be self-sufficient, it is now changed to free handouts for everyone.

That certainly isn't the immigrant experience I have noticed. In particular, the Mexicans immigrants (legal and illegal) I have seen work their asses off. I, meanwhile, do not.

I am in favor of limiting social programs for both legal and illegal immigrants, however. There should be a safety net of some sort, but nobody should be able to enter the country and then rely upon social services provided by the government. Of course, if you listen only to one side of the debate, one could come to the conclusion that this is exactly what happens more often than not.

[DriftCat]

I didn't mean to imply they are all that way, but thats why we have the process that we do to weed out the ones that want to contribute to society and the ones who don't.

[SonomaCat]

This study has some interesting figures in it. It appears pretty well thought out. The only two factors I would add are:

1. How much would the cost of corrections go down if we excluded people being incarcerated or otherwise processed through the legal system for immigration-only crimes?

2. How much additional tax revenue are they generating by providing profits for businesses (through the additional labor they provide our workforce and as consumers)? I would guess this would WAY outweight all other costs.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

[gtapp]

So thats why the restaurant dishes were dirty and I didn't see any roofers.

[SonomaCat]

An interesting article on the costs of the bills that are designed to "fix" the problems of illegal immigrants working in the U.S.:

http://www.reason.com/links/links050206.shtml

[SonomaCat]

This article contains a lot of information about the taxation of illegal immigrants that I was honestly completely oblivious to previously.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalm ... 0501.shtml

[ChiOCat]

I think they are ILLEAGAL for a reason. No matter what we decide to do in the future, they are in our country illegally right now.

Why, in an attempt to show how important they our to our economy, did they try to hurt our economy by not showing up to work for the day?

Why, in an attempt to show how much work they do, did they decide not to show up to work?

Why was this done on the day most countries recognize as Wokers Day?

I understand what they are trying to do, but do no agree with the way they did it.

[SonomaCat]

I see your point ... and always wondered the same thing about Labor Day.

I'm not a big fan of most holidays or days of observance of one thing or another, actually, outside of taking the day off.

[ChiOCat]

I see your point ... and always wondered the same thing about Labor Day.

I'm not a big fan of most holidays or days of observance of one thing or another, actually, outside of taking the day off.

I actually have a soft spot for Workers Day, it got us a day off when we were doing a start up in Brazil. 6 of us took advantage and flew to Rio for 2 days. I'm glad I've been there, but I'd never fly all the way just to go.

I'm just curious to see what changes, if any, all of this will lead to.

[SonomaCat]

Interesting article with lots of numbers on the impact of foreign workers in our labor force. The numbers were actually even higher than I expected. Although I do work in an office were about 70% of the people working there are foreign born (including the CEO).

http://www.slate.com/id/2141284/

[rtb]

Interesting article with lots of numbers on the impact of foreign workers in our labor force. The numbers were actually even higher than I expected. Although I do work in an office were about 70% of the people working there are foreign born (including the CEO).

http://www.slate.com/id/2141284/

Good information, but still not enough to draw the conclusion that illegal immigration has a net positive effect. I agree that many of the migrant workforce plays a huge role in our economy, but I would love to see a cost/benefit analysis focused only on illegal immigrants. I know that would be a difficult topic to research, but that is what I would like to see.

I think that creating a more efficient easier process to allow people to come into our country for work and be documented isn't to much to ask for.

[iaafan]

I wonder how this topic is playing in Browning and Poplar and Lame Deer. THESE immigrants aren't trying to eradicate and entire race and culture. So are they an improvement on the original immigrants? Maybe we should all move to reservations and let them take over.