Liberals have no class

[BWahlberg]

OK MM7;

I do not support torture

But Bush does, as does Cheney and Rumsfield. Why do think there are not-so-secret CIA prisions outside of America, or why Taliban/Iraqi fighters are being held in Gitmo? Tourtue. Probably not bad torture, but something that would be viewed as torture by American law.

I do not support lying to the American people

The Bush administration may not "support" it but they have done it. WMDs for one. And save me the whole "what about the Kurds" statement. That was sometime around 20 years ago, we didn't use the "there used to be WMDs" as an exuse to invade Iraq recently but new ones, ones that Saddam has right now. Alberto Gonzalez lied in his confirmation, saying the NSA domestic wiretapping was "hypothetical" when in fact it was not, and he knew that. One other example, the recent "hearing" with the oil execs. Republican Senators would not allow the suggestion the execs swear in, and then what happened? They LIED!!!!! All of these lies (and more) are being poured out by the conservative party in America.

I do not support big business over the citizens

The Bush admin does, and most Republican Sentors and Congresspeople have supported big business by their voting record.

You want government control over our lives look no further than Hilary Clintons agenda

Right, because conservative government stays out of controlling peoples lives. Gay marriage, gay rights, cloning, abortion, stem cell research, etc etc etc. Regardless if you support those issues or not, conservatives try to control peoples lives just as much as liberals.

I am not racist
I am not sexist

Obviously, I don't know you, and I have no reason to not believe you, except that you're a cat fan

In short, I am consertvative. Have a nice day

I do not doubt that you are. But you may want to look at who you're actually voting for because if you support Bush, you are voting against many of the ideals that you hold true. I'm not saying vote Democrat, or vote anyone else, thats up to you to decide. But Bush and his administration go against many of the things you said you believe in. FYI

[couloir41]

a couple of thoughts...

there are only two issues in american politics...they are...

1) who represents the interests of the wealthy and...drum roll...
2) who represents the rest of us...the middle class...poor etc...

pretty simple concept but one that very the very wealthy republicans don't want to be sorted out by those who vote...

if you study american political science issues like those listed above (in previous postings on this thread) you will discover they are distractions so no one focuses on the one issue that is paramount...money and who has the most...

so the more we are distracted and divided by our "one or two issue political interests" like the 2nd amendment (an example) or abortion (another example) the more control we hand over to the 1% that want it all...divide and subjugate...because they have only one issue...money...yours and mine...

for example...an interesting statistic came from the us dept of commerce (i believe) last week...57% of all corporate wealth is owned by the top one percent of the population...you do the math on what's left...

another interesting statistic...thirty years ago the highest tax bracket was 70%...today it is 35%...who do you think is picking up the difference...again you do the math...

one more point or so...the wealthy want free trade and open borders for a couple of reasons...for the first time in history the world is a finite entity...and without borders it is nothing more than a community with neighborhoods that can be exploited to generate more wealth for them...

they don't want borders or diverse social orders because they cannot maximize their wealth...or control over their workers...

it is just something to think about...or perhaps juxtapose against the various issues that divide us and drain our collective power...

remember all you have to do is follow the money...it's late i'm tired...

[PapaG]

a couple of thoughts...

there are only two issues in american politics...they are...

1) who represents the interests of the wealthy and...drum roll...
2) who represents the rest of us...the middle class...poor etc...

pretty simple concept but one that very the very wealthy republicans don't want to be sorted out by those who vote...

if you study american political science issues like those listed above (in previous postings on this thread) you will discover they are distractions so no one focuses on the one issue that is paramount...money and who has the most...

so the more we are distracted and divided by our "one or two issue political interests" like the 2nd amendment (an example) or abortion (another example) the more control we hand over to the 1% that want it all...divide and subjugate...because they have only one issue...money...yours and mine...

for example...an interesting statistic came from the us dept of commerce (i believe) last week...57% of all corporate wealth is owned by the top one percent of the population...you do the math on what's left...

another interesting statistic...thirty years ago the highest tax bracket was 70%...today it is 35%...who do you think is picking up the difference...again you do the math...

one more point or so...the wealthy want free trade and open borders for a couple of reasons...for the first time in history the world is a finite entity...and without borders it is nothing more than a community with neighborhoods that can be exploited to generate more wealth for them...

they don't want borders or diverse social orders because they cannot maximize their wealth...or control over their workers...

it is just something to think about...or perhaps juxtapose against the various issues that divide us and drain our collective power...

remember all you have to do is follow the money...it's late i'm tired...

Yes, all GOP are rich, all Democrats are poor, blah blah blah.

Kennedy, Rockefellar, Heinz-Kerry, et al. Take a look at who the super wealthy pols are. You will notice they aren't all GOP.



My goodness, the sheep in this country will believe anything if it fits into their worldview. As an independent with Libertarian leanings, all of this lib/con talk or GOP/Dem talk seems so rehearsed. And I'm not meaning it is rehearsed by those consuming it and regurgitating it in this forum.

[DriftCat]

ReMax, I forgot one thing.......I am not in the Bush administration either.
About Bush lying about WMDs...come on....every single politian had the same intelligence from the CIA and if you go back and look at it the GOP and the DEMS all agreed that Sadam had WMDs. Even Kerry said in the debates that he thought it was right we were over there he just did'nt agree with how the war was being fought. I am not going to get into the rest because it would probably get very messy. The bottom line is, if you think that ANY polititian actually cares about anything but money, power, and their career, you are mistaken.

[Stevicat]

I'm not really following the logic behind the subject line on this thread. So because the speakers at the funeral spoke to things that the King family stands for, they have no class? On the contrary, it shows that they were honoring her in death in light of the ideals she stood for while she lived. That seems to be perfectly appropriate.

I'm not sure if the King family cares if it upsets some people that they don't particularly care for the current President and his policies ... but it is THEIR family funeral, so unless THEY complain, who gives a rats ass?

To Bush's credit, he attended the funeral and actually listened to views that weren't filtered. It was obvious that it was not going to be a warm crowd for him, and he did the right thing for himself, the GOP party, and the country by attending. He should do this more often as opposed to doing exclusively invite-only GOP appearances.

My point was that this is a funeral about CSK and her life. Why did many of the speakers feel it necessary to make it a political attack on Bush while he was there? Poor taste and classless, in my opinion. Bush had class by attending and speaking without a critical word about anybody.

And their comments reflected her life and what she has stood for. Bush is merely a guest there (and likely attending purely for photo op purposes, as you are reinforcing the ideas that little of what he stands for is in line with the deceased's views) and if his policies ran counter to what the deceased believed in, they shouldn't mute her life's work merely to massage the ego of the GOP or the President. If their words were in no way related to her life's work, that's one thing. But they were precisely a reflection of her life's work. Are you suggesting that funeral services for a person should be edited to only include happy thoughts about the sitting President, even if the deceased had labored to spread messages to the contrary?

I personally think it is classless to assert what another family should and shouldn't say or arrange to be said at the funeral of their own mother (and to further use it as an attempt to damn the movement that she was a part of).

So if the family felt it was appropriate, then it was appropriate. And like I said, it doesn't hurt Bush to hear some opinions from real Americans as opposed to props every so often, even if it takes the death of an American icon to accomplish that.

I never said that these people should not have said what they said, only that I thought it lacked class. In fact, I strongly encourage them to continue to say what they are saying. They need to take every opportunity; funeral, wedding, sunday news show, radio show, etc. to express their beliefs and views. The more the better! Let the American people fully know and understand the liberal/progressive/Democrat beliefs.

[couloir41]

gtapp...damn man...read the post...

first...i said wealthy republicans...i know a lot of not so wealthy repubs...who foolishly vote republican...

second...i never said all dems were poor...some are very wealthy as you point out...

you manifest traits of some of my libertarian/independent friends...they don't connect the dots very well...they get a hammer and smash them...i have concluded they are dislexic (sp)...or worse...

and please consider that if it weren't for liberal/progressives we would probably have a society similar to some i can name in the mideast...and something else to consider...libertarians and other conservatives are only the guardians of obsolete liberal/progressive thought...

[ChiOCat]

gtapp...damn man...read the post...

first...i said wealthy republicans...i know a lot of not so wealthy repubs...who foolishly vote republican...

second...i never said all dems were poor...some are very wealthy as you point out...

you manifest traits of some of my libertarian/independent friends...they don't connect the dots very well...they get a hammer and smash them...i have concluded they are dislexic (sp)...or worse...

and please consider that if it weren't for liberal/progressives we would probably have a society similar to some i can name in the mideast...and something else to consider...libertarians and other conservatives are only the guardians of obsolete liberal/progressive thought...

You may want to read the posts, Gtapp has not posted on this thread. You may be referring to PapaG.

And I am sick of being called foolish because I do not agree with your take on things. Have I said that enough times?

[couloir41]

ok...papag...my apologies...

[couloir41]

chiocat...ok...the overbearing background noise created by your cognitive dissonance must be getting to you...good luck with that...maybe more later...

[couloir41]

mm7cat...on the news today...it was clearly revealed that the administration gleaned the info they wanted form the cia on WMD to go to war...

besides...in these times of personal responsibility and acceptance thereof...pointing out "everyone else thought the information was accurate" just doesn't work when people are killed in the process...had the administration had their children at risk this war would not have happened...pure and simple...

do you have family at risk...i do...

[PapaG]

mm7cat...on the news today...it was clearly revealed that the administration gleaned the info they wanted form the cia on WMD to go to war...

So there was intel that came from the CIA that said Iraq had WMDs? I thought Bush made it all up? I guess if the "news" says so...

LOL

do you have family at risk...i do...

I don't know about mm7cat, but I do still have family members at risk. Family members who believe in their mission but who also have a unique perspective on the reconstruction and the military processes of it. It isn't all rosy, but it isn't looking backwards constantly either as your post does.

See, I also have two cents.. Shall we pour more gasoline on this thread?

[couloir41]

papa...selective reading...seems like your strong point...stop being lazy and go read the articles...

also...the reason any situation is critically reviewed...is so the same mistakes are not made in the future...do you make mistakes and try to figure out why you made them or do you repeat them????

so get out your gas can...

[couloir41]

papag...

pass on to your people at risk i sincerely appreciate their service and wish them all a safe return...

[BobCatFan]

Another interesting fact about the Kennedys was that they got involved in the Civil Rights Movement to gain votes in the South. JFK did not want anyone to know about his family involvement, and for that reason Robert was the one making the phone calls. All the "good" stuff the Kennedys were doing was some how kept quite, and the press never got a hold of the information until years later. The Kennedys were doing this for political gain, not because they were interested in the Civil Rights Movement.

Lets not forget history. It was the Republican party that ended slavery. It was the Republican party that passed the Civil Rights bills of 1960's. The democrates fought the Civil Rights Bills.

[BobCatFan]

Another interesting fact about the Kennedys was that they got involved in the Civil Rights Movement to gain votes in the South. JFK did not want anyone to know about his family involvement, and for that reason Robert was the one making the phone calls. All the "good" stuff the Kennedys were doing was some how kept quite, and the press never got a hold of the information until years later. The Kennedys were doing this for political gain, not because they were interested in the Civil Rights Movement.

Lets not forget history. It was the Republican party that ended slavery. It was the Republican party that passed the Civil Rights bills of 1960's. The democrates fought the Civil Rights Bills.

I forgot one. It was the Republican party that gave the black man the right to vote and it was the democrate party the created the Jim Crowe laws and the KKK.

[BobCatFan]

Define Frick'n Liberals

Typically when some whiney ass right winger meets someone they disagree with they label him or her a "Liberal" as a way avoid actually talking, discussing the issue. He a liberal so that's all I have to say! They don't have to back up their comments with facts or truths just the chicken ass line "Liberal".

Well here are some other "truths"

-Conservative support torture
-Conservative support lying to the American people.
-Conservatives put the interest of big business over the citizens.
-Conservatives believe in government control over the most intimate details of human beings lives.
- Conservatives support less taxes for the rich and more for you and I.
- Conservatives are Racists
- Conservatives are sexist
- Conservatives will send our sons and daughter to die for their own political gain.

- In short conservatives are absolutely contrary to what our founding father thought this country should be

I do not support torture
I do not support lying to the American people
I do not support big business over the citizens
You want government control over our lives look no further than Hilary Clintons agenda
Tax cuts for the rich means more money invested in businesses meaning more jobs ( I have never received a paycheck from a poor man)
I am not racist
I am not sexist

In short, I am consertvative. Have a nice day.

I agree. I think MislaCat needs to study history and stop smoking that wacky weed in Missoula.

[BobCatFan]

OK MM7;

I do not support torture

But Bush does, as does Cheney and Rumsfield. Why do think there are not-so-secret CIA prisions outside of America, or why Taliban/Iraqi fighters are being held in Gitmo? Tourtue. Probably not bad torture, but something that would be viewed as torture by American law.

I do not support lying to the American people

I agree but some secretes should not be disclosed.

The Bush administration may not "support" it but they have done it. WMDs for one. And save me the whole "what about the Kurds" statement. That was sometime around 20 years ago, we didn't use the "there used to be WMDs" as an exuse to invade Iraq recently but new ones, ones that Saddam has right now. Alberto Gonzalez lied in his confirmation, saying the NSA domestic wiretapping was "hypothetical" when in fact it was not, and he knew that. One other example, the recent "hearing" with the oil execs. Republican Senators would not allow the suggestion the execs swear in, and then what happened? They LIED!!!!! All of these lies (and more) are being poured out by the conservative party in America.

I do not support big business over the citizens

The Bush admin does, and most Republican Sentors and Congresspeople have supported big business by their voting record.
I agree and the CEO and other top management need to be brought back to reality. But big business is a fact of life and it will never go away. If you want to live where there are only government controlled businesses or small businesses, can I sugguest Cuba to you.

You want government control over our lives look no further than Hilary Clintons agenda

Right, because conservative government stays out of controlling peoples lives. Gay marriage, gay rights, cloning, abortion, stem cell research, etc etc etc. Regardless if you support those issues or not, conservatives try to control peoples lives just as much as liberals.

I do not support lying to the American people

WMD's will be found someday in Syria. (sp) The government has the spy photos of truck load after truck loaded with WMD's leaving Iraq before the war started. I remember reading stories where billions of dollars were leaving Iraq before the war too and being deposited into Syria bank accounts. This is not a nice and comfortable part of the world and when you stupid Americans figure this out, I hope it is not to late. I consider myself a smart American. I understand that we are in a religious war and not a war against terror. Iran is next, so be ready. We will be in Iran next year after the elections in November. I hope that stupid cartoons that are causing problems in Europe will wake them up.

I think you should add the Democrates to your list. They do the same da* things the Repubilicans are doing.

I support torture and if call what we have been doing in Irag or Gitmo as torture, Please let me introduce you to Stalin, or Sadaam, or Hitler or Popot (sp). These guys knew how to use torture for their political gain.

I agree but some secretes should not be disclosed.

I could careless what what two or more adults do in their bedroom, but why should gays have a special class of laws just for themselves. I can not support gay marriage. Marriage is traditional , (can we all agree for at least the last 5000 years of western history,) between a man and a women for the purpose of having a family.

[BobCatFan]

ReMax, I forgot one thing.......I am not in the Bush administration either.
About Bush lying about WMDs...come on....every single politian had the same intelligence from the CIA and if you go back and look at it the GOP and the DEMS all agreed that Sadam had WMDs. Even Kerry said in the debates that he thought it was right we were over there he just did'nt agree with how the war was being fought. I am not going to get into the rest because it would probably get very messy. The bottom line is, if you think that ANY polititian actually cares about anything but money, power, and their career, you are mistaken.

Lets not forget that Putin said Iraq had WMD's, Blair said the same thing. The German's and the French knew because the built the plants. Everyone knew that Iraq had WMD's. When we go into Syria, we will finally find them.

[couloir41]

ok...let's not forget in the last thirty years...starting with nixon and blossoming with reagan and then gingrich...(none of who served) repubs have purposfully abandoned their historical egalitarian responsibility to advocate for the underdog...old line repubs always made sure the less fortunate were not left out...

since then the repubs have made it clear they will advocate only for the wealthy...in the last thirty years with repubs in the forefront there has been a restructuring of tax law...finance law and banking law to favor the upper income brackets...they also advocated most heavily for the volunteer armed forces...so none of their constituancy would be at risk or have at least minimun exposure...

about wmds...if there were photos of convoys taking the weapons into syria where are they????...wouldn't the administration be trying to defend themselves and advocate going into syria if the photos existed...of course...if the french and germans built the factories...where are they...were the facilities taken to syria also...and frankly it is inexcusable to rely on the intelligence of other countries (paritcularly russia) to launch a war where american military are going to die...unless you want to lead the charge...(see the national service thread)...where is the "take responsibility for your actions" drumbeat of the administration now...???...perhaps hiding in undisclosed locations...

read the news...more documenation has been released that clearly reveals the administration went to war with "the facts they wanted" and disregarded other facts more compelling and voluminous to say they should not invade based on the wmds...also additional info has been released that blair and bush conspired to instigate an attack on phony us warplanes...

how many times can this administration be surprized...suprized there are no wmds...surprized at the strength of a hurrican...surprized at losing an election for a democracy in a land with minimal education...surprized they actually had info that said there would be an attack on the wtc...suprize!!

where we should be is in afganistan hunting down the real threat...with troops that are well equipped and in great numbers...then we should be looking very closely at iran and north korea...they are the real threats...no one underestimates the problem more than the current administration...

[BWahlberg]

Another interesting fact about the Kennedys was that they got involved in the Civil Rights Movement to gain votes in the South. JFK did not want anyone to know about his family involvement, and for that reason Robert was the one making the phone calls. All the "good" stuff the Kennedys were doing was some how kept quite, and the press never got a hold of the information until years later. The Kennedys were doing this for political gain, not because they were interested in the Civil Rights Movement.

The democrates fought the Civil Rights Bills.

Southern Democrats most of which were racist, not "the Democrats"

And who tried to filibuster the Civil Rights Act? Strom Thurmond, a conservative hero. I don't know if he was a Dem then, but as far as I remember he's been a Republican.