More Covid Data

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The Butcher
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Re: More Covid Data

Post by The Butcher » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:55 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:07 am
Shouldn't it ALWAYS have depended on what science you're looking at? Or should we ALL have been doing the exact same thing during this entire thing? White Sulpher Springs should follow the exact guidelines as New York City? That seems asinine to me, but perhaps this is where the disconnect has been all along for the last year. Some believe that we should all follow the same science dictated by the Federal government, while others believe each community should make their choices on their own local data, science and resources. :shock:
The CDC has clear guidelines that work for NYC and/or Butte. If Butte's positivity rates have fallen below 3% and 80% of the population is vaccinate getter' done. I don't know Butte's numbers, but I would venture they are not.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:23 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:55 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:07 am
Shouldn't it ALWAYS have depended on what science you're looking at? Or should we ALL have been doing the exact same thing during this entire thing? White Sulpher Springs should follow the exact guidelines as New York City? That seems asinine to me, but perhaps this is where the disconnect has been all along for the last year. Some believe that we should all follow the same science dictated by the Federal government, while others believe each community should make their choices on their own local data, science and resources. :shock:
The CDC has clear guidelines that work for NYC and/or Butte. If Butte's positivity rates have fallen below 3% and 80% of the population is vaccinate getter' done. I don't know Butte's numbers, but I would venture they are not.
Man, those parameters to get back to living seem asinine to me, but that is just my personal opinion.

I guess with most things, we won't know for a while if Butte is being egregious right now. If in the coming months cases skyrocket, and hospitalizations and deaths are way up we'll know they made a terrible error in judgement.

I suppose if they get through relatively unscathed and those things don't happen, we can conclude that the science they chose to look at worked just fine for them.

How many Montana counties have lifted the bans? I have no idea. I feel like the Gallatin is one of the last ones standing. I'd be curious if the counties that have already lifted the bans have seen any kind of surges? I have no clue.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by Cataholic » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:41 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:51 am
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:22 am
Hey Butch! I see South Dakota’s covid numbers are way down. Did they implement a mask mandate or close businesses?
I guess you can say that South Dakota is doing better. Our positivity rate went from 50% to 15% and weekly average deaths are down to 5 compared to November’s 55. Luckily 38% of the population has had at least one vaccination. But overall South Dakota will end the pandemic as one of the worst in positivity rates and death rates in the WORLD. If all of the United States would have followed the same playbook as South Dakota there would have been 200,000+ deaths. This is another example of you taking a 10 second news clip to fit your narrative, while ignoring all the other information.
Ten second clip? I asked you a simple question.. give it a break.

I am confused how you can take a little snippet of time to fit your narrative? Seems like you are taking a 10 second clip.... It also appears that SD overall rates are better than 7 other states. What would the death rate have been if they followed the script of New York or New Jersey?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -by-state/



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by iaafan » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:56 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:41 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:51 am
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:22 am
Hey Butch! I see South Dakota’s covid numbers are way down. Did they implement a mask mandate or close businesses?
I guess you can say that South Dakota is doing better. Our positivity rate went from 50% to 15% and weekly average deaths are down to 5 compared to November’s 55. Luckily 38% of the population has had at least one vaccination. But overall South Dakota will end the pandemic as one of the worst in positivity rates and death rates in the WORLD. If all of the United States would have followed the same playbook as South Dakota there would have been 200,000+ deaths. This is another example of you taking a 10 second news clip to fit your narrative, while ignoring all the other information.
Ten second clip? I asked you a simple question.. give it a break.

I am confused how you can take a little snippet of time to fit your narrative? Seems like you are taking a 10 second clip.... It also appears that SD overall rates are better than 7 other states. What would the death rate have been if they followed the script of New York or New Jersey?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -by-state/
Nothing like not using context to make your point. NJ/NY vs SD...wow! Will you be retaining Tucker Carlson's attorneys to defend your statements or just invoking the Sidney Powell explanation?



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by Cataholic » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:20 pm

iaafan wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:56 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:41 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:51 am
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:22 am
Hey Butch! I see South Dakota’s covid numbers are way down. Did they implement a mask mandate or close businesses?
I guess you can say that South Dakota is doing better. Our positivity rate went from 50% to 15% and weekly average deaths are down to 5 compared to November’s 55. Luckily 38% of the population has had at least one vaccination. But overall South Dakota will end the pandemic as one of the worst in positivity rates and death rates in the WORLD. If all of the United States would have followed the same playbook as South Dakota there would have been 200,000+ deaths. This is another example of you taking a 10 second news clip to fit your narrative, while ignoring all the other information.
Ten second clip? I asked you a simple question.. give it a break.

I am confused how you can take a little snippet of time to fit your narrative? Seems like you are taking a 10 second clip.... It also appears that SD overall rates are better than 7 other states. What would the death rate have been if they followed the script of New York or New Jersey?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -by-state/
Nothing like not using context to make your point. NJ/NY vs SD...wow! Will you be retaining Tucker Carlson's attorneys to defend your statements or just invoking the Sidney Powell explanation?
What context do you mean? I made a pretty simple statement based on the data. And there are 7 states that had worse numbers than SD.

It is amazing though how SD has seen this dramatic decrease in numbers but they haven’t done anything different. The way you guys were talking, if they didn’t change their ways, it would be the end of their state! Didn’t one of you actually accuse Noem of murder?



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:35 pm

iaafan wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:56 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:41 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:51 am
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:22 am
Hey Butch! I see South Dakota’s covid numbers are way down. Did they implement a mask mandate or close businesses?
I guess you can say that South Dakota is doing better. Our positivity rate went from 50% to 15% and weekly average deaths are down to 5 compared to November’s 55. Luckily 38% of the population has had at least one vaccination. But overall South Dakota will end the pandemic as one of the worst in positivity rates and death rates in the WORLD. If all of the United States would have followed the same playbook as South Dakota there would have been 200,000+ deaths. This is another example of you taking a 10 second news clip to fit your narrative, while ignoring all the other information.
Ten second clip? I asked you a simple question.. give it a break.

I am confused how you can take a little snippet of time to fit your narrative? Seems like you are taking a 10 second clip.... It also appears that SD overall rates are better than 7 other states. What would the death rate have been if they followed the script of New York or New Jersey?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -by-state/
Nothing like not using context to make your point. NJ/NY vs SD...wow!
To play devils advocate, butch said in another thread in regards to guidelines set forth by the CDC that we should all be doing the same thing and follow the same science. To me, if it's fair to make White Sulpher Springs follow the exact same science as New York city in regards to limiting mandates, it only seems fair to compare states like South Dakota to New York City in other contexts as well. Otherwise it's just a lot of comparisons to prove a narrative, and nothing really on an equal playing field.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by BozoneCat » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:07 am
The Butcher wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:58 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:53 am
https://mtstandard.com/news/local/mask- ... c18ff.html

I saw that Butte has lifted all restrictions now as well. Good for them.

This was an interesting read in regards to their health department and the parameters they met before making this decision. We have been told for over a year now to trust the science. In Butte at least, the "science" seems to say that getting back to living is warranted now.

I'll be curious to see if there are businesses that will go forward not trusting the science and continue requiring masks? :-k
I guess it is based on what science you are looking at. The CDC has not lifted all restrictions. Maybe Butte's resources are better than the Federal Government's resources. :shock:
Shouldn't it ALWAYS have depended on what science you're looking at? Or should we ALL have been doing the exact same thing during this entire thing? White Sulpher Springs should follow the exact guidelines as New York City? That seems asinine to me, but perhaps this is where the disconnect has been all along for the last year. Some believe that we should all follow the same science dictated by the Federal government, while others believe each community should make their choices on their own local data, science and resources. :shock:
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.


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Re: More Covid Data

Post by The Butcher » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am

BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am

The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by iaafan » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by wbtfg » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:28 am

iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.
Not to take away from your point, but just a sidenote….I think a big part of the Montana uptick are retoractively fixing clerical errors from cascade county. The "active cases" have continued to go down.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:49 am

iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.
Oh no doubt. I get that. It's a virus. I won't be surprised if the new strains mutate to newer strains. I fully expect that to happen. Then what? We just concede that this is life now? Shut school back down? Close more businesses. Keep printing stimulus money? Wait for the day where there are no possibilities of any more strains? I just can't see people getting on board with that.

At SOME point we need to get back to it. Let the old and vulnerable do what they need to do to feel safe. I just don't see how we can continue jeopardizing our kids and their futures every time a new strain of this virus or a new virus all together rears its head.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by iaafan » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:41 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:49 am
iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.
Oh no doubt. I get that. It's a virus. I won't be surprised if the new strains mutate to newer strains. I fully expect that to happen. Then what? We just concede that this is life now? Shut school back down? Close more businesses. Keep printing stimulus money? Wait for the day where there are no possibilities of any more strains? I just can't see people getting on board with that.

At SOME point we need to get back to it. Let the old and vulnerable do what they need to do to feel safe. I just don't see how we can continue jeopardizing our kids and their futures every time a new strain of this virus or a new virus all together rears its head.
I don't see everyone getting on board with that either. A lot of people have been very against getting on board with it since day 1, so it'll probably just plod along as is for who knows how long. The best thing that could happen is that it would just go away. Unfortunately, the second best thing that could happen is that it could get so bad that people have no choice but get on board. We shall see. Only time will tell.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by iaafan » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:42 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:28 am
iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.
Not to take away from your point, but just a sidenote….I think a big part of the Montana uptick are retoractively fixing clerical errors from cascade county. The "active cases" have continued to go down.
Yes, I saw that and hopefully that's all it is.



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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:04 pm

iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:41 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:49 am
iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.
Oh no doubt. I get that. It's a virus. I won't be surprised if the new strains mutate to newer strains. I fully expect that to happen. Then what? We just concede that this is life now? Shut school back down? Close more businesses. Keep printing stimulus money? Wait for the day where there are no possibilities of any more strains? I just can't see people getting on board with that.

At SOME point we need to get back to it. Let the old and vulnerable do what they need to do to feel safe. I just don't see how we can continue jeopardizing our kids and their futures every time a new strain of this virus or a new virus all together rears its head.
I don't see everyone getting on board with that either. A lot of people have been very against getting on board with it since day 1, so it'll probably just plod along as is for who knows how long. The best thing that could happen is that it would just go away. Unfortunately, the second best thing that could happen is that it could get so bad that people have no choice but get on board. We shall see. Only time will tell.
Hope it's the former rather than the latter.

I just think we need to get to a point where the focus isn't so much on the virus itself. Or new strains. We need to weigh the risks of mass deaths and hospitalizations where they become overwhelmed versus the livlihoods of our kids (our future) their education and mental state. This doesn't even touch on businesses as I'm tired of being accused of valuing money over lives. (Not from you) But we need to take a long hard look at what this is doing to our future as kids are being crushed.

While I was never on board with lockdowns and business closures, I could at least understand the idea. There was a threat of millions of deaths and when that looked far-fetched there was a threat of hospitals being decimated. So I get it. But if we're to a point where there are not tens of thousands of deaths, and hospitals aren't being overrun, I'd like to eventually start thinking about young people and gasp, even business owners.

Just my personal opinion of course!



TomCat88
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Re: More Covid Data

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:16 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:04 pm
iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:41 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:49 am
iaafan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:26 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:28 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:53 am
BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:58 pm
I actually do believe that WSS should be following the same guidelines as NYC. Why? Because we don't live in a bubble. People still travel in & out of towns to do business (for WSS, to Helena or Bozeman), and can spread it that way. We see that here in Boise - the city of Boise has had pretty stringent guidelines throughout, but far more relaxed guidelines in surrounding areas (Nampa, Caldwell). Well, those people still come in to Boise every day to work and shop, and it's certainly created issues with case numbers, but also with frustrations about getting different messages. Kind of like kids from divorced parents getting different rules at different places, it generally just creates confusion and more acting out rather than good behavior.
Exactly. The approach "we aren't New York City" is dangerous and has not boded well for South Dakota. Vermont is similar in size and ruralness to South Dakota (not to mention substantially closer to NY and NJ) yet they are at the bottom of the transmission and death rates. They put strategies in place to mitigate the transmission of the virus, while South Dakota did not. Pretty good case study of how science can benefit a state during a pandemic.
I totally get what you guys are saying. But if that was really a big concern they should have shut down all travel. People were coming here in droves. People from here were travelling in droves. We're definitely not in a bubble, but we could have been way more in a bubble had they wanted to make that a priority.

Despite these facts, our numbers in this state are far better than many. Which means there is something to be said about the differences between the states.

We're vaccinating very well in this state. Within a month we'll have 450,00 or more vaccinated. Over 100,000 have had the virus that we know about. I'd assume we have thousands more that probably had the virus but wasn't reported, but that is conjecture. If we get to the point in a couple months where we have 80+% with antibodies either by having the virus or being vaccinated, do we REALLY need to follow the guidelines set forth for other cities and states? I could be way off but I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

But I understand where those that believe that are coming from.
There are other strains of the virus out there and while some of them are susceptible to the vaccine others are not. That was the Dr. Fauci/Rand Paul discussion from a few days ago. It really sucks. Some of those other strains could really take off. My hope is that the vaccine can easily be altered to blunt them or that they're not very strong viruses. Who knows? Montana is having a slight up tick. Hopefully it's just an anomaly.
Oh no doubt. I get that. It's a virus. I won't be surprised if the new strains mutate to newer strains. I fully expect that to happen. Then what? We just concede that this is life now? Shut school back down? Close more businesses. Keep printing stimulus money? Wait for the day where there are no possibilities of any more strains? I just can't see people getting on board with that.

At SOME point we need to get back to it. Let the old and vulnerable do what they need to do to feel safe. I just don't see how we can continue jeopardizing our kids and their futures every time a new strain of this virus or a new virus all together rears its head.
I don't see everyone getting on board with that either. A lot of people have been very against getting on board with it since day 1, so it'll probably just plod along as is for who knows how long. The best thing that could happen is that it would just go away. Unfortunately, the second best thing that could happen is that it could get so bad that people have no choice but get on board. We shall see. Only time will tell.
Hope it's the former rather than the latter.

I just think we need to get to a point where the focus isn't so much on the virus itself. Or new strains. We need to weigh the risks of mass deaths and hospitalizations where they become overwhelmed versus the livlihoods of our kids (our future) their education and mental state. This doesn't even touch on businesses as I'm tired of being accused of valuing money over lives. (Not from you) But we need to take a long hard look at what this is doing to our future as kids are being crushed.

While I was never on board with lockdowns and business closures, I could at least understand the idea. There was a threat of millions of deaths and when that looked far-fetched there was a threat of hospitals being decimated. So I get it. But if we're to a point where there are not tens of thousands of deaths, and hospitals aren't being overrun, I'd like to eventually start thinking about young people and gasp, even business owners.

Just my personal opinion of course!
Man all y’all are painting a pretty grim future (present, reality?). “You’re damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t.”


MSU - 14 team National Champions (most recent 2011); 54 individual National Champions (most recent 2021).
toM StUber

ilovethecats
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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Man all y’all are painting a pretty grim future (present, reality?). “You’re damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t.”
:lol:

Nah. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the coming months. I'm just painting a "different" picture of the past, present and future. Instead of death tickers and talk about new strains that could be dangerous, I've chosen to voice my opinion on kids and how bad they've been victimized this last year.

So sad. :(



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BozoneCat
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Re: More Covid Data

Post by BozoneCat » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:18 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Man all y’all are painting a pretty grim future (present, reality?). “You’re damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t.”
:lol:

Nah. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the coming months. I'm just painting a "different" picture of the past, present and future. Instead of death tickers and talk about new strains that could be dangerous, I've chosen to voice my opinion on kids and how bad they've been victimized this last year.

So sad. :(
I do feel for kids, and even more so for small business owners. But personally, I think the victimization of children is overrated. Kids are much more resilient than that. I think it comes down to the messaging from parents at home. If all you talk about with them is "poor you, I feel so bad for you, you shouldn't have to wear a mask, etc." (not saying this is you, ILTC), then no wonder kids are struggling in that situation. If you just treat it as a "thing we have to deal with" and focus on the positive things (I mean, try to find them, right?), they still might not like it but I think they'll likely handle it differently. JMO. It does suck all the way around, no one is arguing that.


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ilovethecats
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Re: More Covid Data

Post by ilovethecats » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:20 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:18 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Man all y’all are painting a pretty grim future (present, reality?). “You’re damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t.”
:lol:

Nah. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the coming months. I'm just painting a "different" picture of the past, present and future. Instead of death tickers and talk about new strains that could be dangerous, I've chosen to voice my opinion on kids and how bad they've been victimized this last year.

So sad. :(
I do feel for kids, and even more so for small business owners. But personally, I think the victimization of children is overrated. Kids are much more resilient than that. I think it comes down to the messaging from parents at home. If all you talk about with them is "poor you, I feel so bad for you, you shouldn't have to wear a mask, etc." (not saying this is you, ILTC), then no wonder kids are struggling in that situation. If you just treat it as a "thing we have to deal with" and focus on the positive things (I mean, try to find them, right?), they still might not like it but I think they'll likely handle it differently. JMO. It does suck all the way around, no one is arguing that.
Just curious, but what ages are your kids? I’m assuming you have them.

No doubt they’re resilient. But I’m seeing first hand with mine what an impact this last year has had. I had a meeting with one of my kids teachers Tuesday. One of them is doing ok but my other is struggling. Online learning killed him. So we met to see what he could do. His teacher says that he thinks 70% of his students are performing worse than their transcripts show they have in the past. He said he has more dropouts in the last year than he ever has since teaching. He seems semi young so take that with a grain of salt.

My only point is I’m hoping sometime soon we start weighing all of the outcomes, and not just ignoring repercussions aside from hospitalizations. Kids may be resilient, but who’s to say they’re more resilient than the 99 something percent of adults who are also resilient of this virus?

I understand your take though. Just feel so many are being lost in the shuffle from a virus most won’t get, according to the stats, and of those most won’t die, according to the stats.

We should have a clearer view in the coming years I suppose.



TomCat88
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Posts: 14772
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Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: More Covid Data

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:54 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:20 pm
BozoneCat wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:18 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Man all y’all are painting a pretty grim future (present, reality?). “You’re damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t.”
:lol:

Nah. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the coming months. I'm just painting a "different" picture of the past, present and future. Instead of death tickers and talk about new strains that could be dangerous, I've chosen to voice my opinion on kids and how bad they've been victimized this last year.

So sad. :(
I do feel for kids, and even more so for small business owners. But personally, I think the victimization of children is overrated. Kids are much more resilient than that. I think it comes down to the messaging from parents at home. If all you talk about with them is "poor you, I feel so bad for you, you shouldn't have to wear a mask, etc." (not saying this is you, ILTC), then no wonder kids are struggling in that situation. If you just treat it as a "thing we have to deal with" and focus on the positive things (I mean, try to find them, right?), they still might not like it but I think they'll likely handle it differently. JMO. It does suck all the way around, no one is arguing that.
Just curious, but what ages are your kids? I’m assuming you have them.

No doubt they’re resilient. But I’m seeing first hand with mine what an impact this last year has had. I had a meeting with one of my kids teachers Tuesday. One of them is doing ok but my other is struggling. Online learning killed him. So we met to see what he could do. His teacher says that he thinks 70% of his students are performing worse than their transcripts show they have in the past. He said he has more dropouts in the last year than he ever has since teaching. He seems semi young so take that with a grain of salt.

My only point is I’m hoping sometime soon we start weighing all of the outcomes, and not just ignoring repercussions aside from hospitalizations. Kids may be resilient, but who’s to say they’re more resilient than the 99 something percent of adults who are also resilient of this virus?

I understand your take though. Just feel so many are being lost in the shuffle from a virus most won’t get, according to the stats, and of those most won’t die, according to the stats.

We should have a clearer view in the coming years I suppose.
Many kids, that struggle in school, are thriving in online school. A majority of them prefer online school due to a lot of factors. https://labusinessjournal.com/news/2020 ... ts-online/

Very similar for folks working from home.

Covid has had some silver linings that way. Opening a lot of new avenues. It’s good, mentally healthy, to look at all the positives. People do focus on money too much IMO.


MSU - 14 team National Champions (most recent 2011); 54 individual National Champions (most recent 2021).
toM StUber

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