Future Leaders of the Dems

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Cataholic
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Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by Cataholic » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm




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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by catatac » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.


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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by Cataholic » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm

catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by BozoneCat » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.
Agree with this post, this is total hypocrisy. As you said, rioting is almost always idiotic under almost all circumstances.

Disagree with the sentiment that Bush, AOC, and Omar et al are the "future of the Democratic Party." They are a small sect of outliers that I don't think represent mainstream people in this country, which is where I still believe the majority of members of both parties truly lies. Just like the Rep's, these far-left blowhards talk a lot and make a lot of noise, and as a result get a lot of press, but I don't see them as true future leaders of the party. If they decide to go that route, the Democratic Party will not do well with that, just as I believe the Republican Party will not do well if they continue to bend to the far-right contingent that is currently overtaking that party. Good god, we need a 3rd party that is moderate!


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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by Cataholic » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:26 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.
Agree with this post, this is total hypocrisy. As you said, rioting is almost always idiotic under almost all circumstances.

Disagree with the sentiment that Bush, AOC, and Omar et al are the "future of the Democratic Party." They are a small sect of outliers that I don't think represent mainstream people in this country, which is where I still believe the majority of members of both parties truly lies. Just like the Rep's, these far-left blowhards talk a lot and make a lot of noise, and as a result get a lot of press, but I don't see them as true future leaders of the party. If they decide to go that route, the Democratic Party will not do well with that, just as I believe the Republican Party will not do well if they continue to bend to the far-right contingent that is currently overtaking that party. Good god, we need a 3rd party that is moderate!
I agree with you for the most part. However, I think the squad and Biden’s liberal decisions have already indicated how far left the Democrats have moved. I hope that I am wrong and moderates like Joe Manchin provide a voice of reason.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by RickRund » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:33 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:26 pm
BozoneCat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.
Agree with this post, this is total hypocrisy. As you said, rioting is almost always idiotic under almost all circumstances.

Disagree with the sentiment that Bush, AOC, and Omar et al are the "future of the Democratic Party." They are a small sect of outliers that I don't think represent mainstream people in this country, which is where I still believe the majority of members of both parties truly lies. Just like the Rep's, these far-left blowhards talk a lot and make a lot of noise, and as a result get a lot of press, but I don't see them as true future leaders of the party. If they decide to go that route, the Democratic Party will not do well with that, just as I believe the Republican Party will not do well if they continue to bend to the far-right contingent that is currently overtaking that party. Good god, we need a 3rd party that is moderate!
I agree with you for the most part. However, I think the squad and Biden’s liberal decisions have already indicated how far left the Democrats have moved. I hope that I am wrong and moderates like Joe Manchin provide a voice of reason.
I think you meant and a moderate like Joe Manchin provides a voice of reason. I can't think of another moderate.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by Cataholic » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:44 pm

RickRund wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:33 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:26 pm
BozoneCat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.
Agree with this post, this is total hypocrisy. As you said, rioting is almost always idiotic under almost all circumstances.

Disagree with the sentiment that Bush, AOC, and Omar et al are the "future of the Democratic Party." They are a small sect of outliers that I don't think represent mainstream people in this country, which is where I still believe the majority of members of both parties truly lies. Just like the Rep's, these far-left blowhards talk a lot and make a lot of noise, and as a result get a lot of press, but I don't see them as true future leaders of the party. If they decide to go that route, the Democratic Party will not do well with that, just as I believe the Republican Party will not do well if they continue to bend to the far-right contingent that is currently overtaking that party. Good god, we need a 3rd party that is moderate!
I agree with you for the most part. However, I think the squad and Biden’s liberal decisions have already indicated how far left the Democrats have moved. I hope that I am wrong and moderates like Joe Manchin provide a voice of reason.
I think you meant and a moderate like Joe Manchin provides a voice of reason. I can't think of another moderate.
I am not as big a cynic as you. I am thoroughly disgusted where Washington politics are right now, but I still have faith in the system. Some Dems have already denounced such progressive items like defund the police citing a concern that it will alienate their constituents. Hopefully those concerns will push more toward the middle.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by wbtfg » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:52 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.
Agree with this post, this is total hypocrisy. As you said, rioting is almost always idiotic under almost all circumstances.

Disagree with the sentiment that Bush, AOC, and Omar et al are the "future of the Democratic Party." They are a small sect of outliers that I don't think represent mainstream people in this country, which is where I still believe the majority of members of both parties truly lies. Just like the Rep's, these far-left blowhards talk a lot and make a lot of noise, and as a result get a lot of press, but I don't see them as true future leaders of the party. If they decide to go that route, the Democratic Party will not do well with that, just as I believe the Republican Party will not do well if they continue to bend to the far-right contingent that is currently overtaking that party. Good god, we need a 3rd party that is moderate!
Good post. Pretty much my thoughts as well.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by RickRund » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:54 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:44 pm
RickRund wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:33 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:26 pm
BozoneCat wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:01 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:52 pm
Cori Bush

https://nypost.com/2021/02/07/rep-cori- ... -riot/amp/
LOL, that is classic hypocrisy. Rioting is OK if it's done by largely black people in prison but when it's done by largely white people at the capitol it "cannot be tolerated". For the record, riots are idiotic 99% of the time regardless of who is doing it.
This Cori Bush is the same person who wants to defund the Pentagon. She has been tabbed as a new member of the squad with AOC and Ilhan Omar.
Agree with this post, this is total hypocrisy. As you said, rioting is almost always idiotic under almost all circumstances.

Disagree with the sentiment that Bush, AOC, and Omar et al are the "future of the Democratic Party." They are a small sect of outliers that I don't think represent mainstream people in this country, which is where I still believe the majority of members of both parties truly lies. Just like the Rep's, these far-left blowhards talk a lot and make a lot of noise, and as a result get a lot of press, but I don't see them as true future leaders of the party. If they decide to go that route, the Democratic Party will not do well with that, just as I believe the Republican Party will not do well if they continue to bend to the far-right contingent that is currently overtaking that party. Good god, we need a 3rd party that is moderate!
I agree with you for the most part. However, I think the squad and Biden’s liberal decisions have already indicated how far left the Democrats have moved. I hope that I am wrong and moderates like Joe Manchin provide a voice of reason.
I think you meant and a moderate like Joe Manchin provides a voice of reason. I can't think of another moderate.
I am not as big a cynic as you. I am thoroughly disgusted where Washington politics are right now, but I still have faith in the system. Some Dems have already denounced such progressive items like defund the police citing a concern that it will alienate their constituents. Hopefully those concerns will push more toward the middle.
We will have to sit back and wait for the direction of the votes. Hopefully you are correct and my cynicism is incorrect...



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by The Butcher » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:08 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I follow politics pretty close and I am not familiar with Rep. Bush.

However I have become VERY familiar with Rep. Gosar (I know the family) and Rep. Arroyo who are very close with the Oath Keepers, Rep. Boebert who is tied to several militias, Rep. Greene who is a QOP, Rep. Gaetz who has been connections with the Proud Boys (his recent trip to Wyoming was really cute), and Rep. Brooks who is part of "Stop the Steal".

I always get a kick out of the hypocrisy of Trump supporters! :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by iaafan » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:02 pm




Future leaders agreeing with current long standing leaders agreeing with 66% of the Democrats and 59% of the Republicans.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:26 pm

iaafan wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:02 pm



Future leaders agreeing with current long standing leaders agreeing with 66% of the Democrats and 59% of the Republicans.
What do economists say about mandated wage hikes?

It is a rhetorical question. Most economists (including economic text books at the college level) that aren't trying to be partisan specifically say that this does not fix poverty or do anything outside of artificially raise costs.

I absolutely want people to get paid more - when they deserve it through hard work, better education, dedication etc. Mandating that the person who does the bare minimum now make the exact same as a shift leader does no good and further harms business growth, small businesses etc.


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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by iaafan » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:43 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:26 pm
iaafan wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:02 pm



Future leaders agreeing with current long standing leaders agreeing with 66% of the Democrats and 59% of the Republicans.
What do economists say about mandated wage hikes?

It is a rhetorical question. Most economists (including economic text books at the college level) that aren't trying to be partisan specifically say that this does not fix poverty or do anything outside of artificially raise costs.

I absolutely want people to get paid more - when they deserve it through hard work, better education, dedication etc. Mandating that the person who does the bare minimum now make the exact same as a shift leader does no good and further harms business growth, small businesses etc.
Economists are mixed on it. How did you ascertain which economists weren't being partisan?



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by PortlandCat90 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:41 pm


What do economists say about mandated wage hikes?

It is a rhetorical question. Most economists (including economic text books at the college level) that aren't trying to be partisan specifically say that this does not fix poverty or do anything outside of artificially raise costs.


Economist's arguments align with their viewpoint - from the individual's standpoint (raise is good and needed) or from the business standpoint (it's a killer from wage expense standpoint). Bernie Sanders has been in politics since 1971, so he is the last person (Biden close 2nd) that I trust to make a free enterprise business decision with my money/tax dollars.

Individual standpoint - purely personal, I have no idea how someone can live off minimum wage. I've read where this would affect anywhere from 21% - 39% of our workforce. There are many states that have higher min wage than Fed, but very few really approach the $15.

Business standpoint - Econ 101 would tell us that a higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, thus leading to higher unemployment. Think of it this way: you own a small business where you pay me $10/hour. You are looking to expand. Knowing that you have another $5/hour coming over the transition period, are you going to go out and hire another body at that rate, or simply figure out a way to spread that wage over your current employees? Of my 8 clients, we run forecast (payroll) scenarios for 4 of them under these type of scenarios, and the answer is pretty consistent. One client is installing self-order kiosks....in a sit-down restaurant chain. Payback is around 4 months.

Solution?: The Employment Policies Institute, which is the leader in policy ramifications, had the "top" 166 U.S. economists polled, with 72% opposing the $15 minimum wage. They (71%) suggested using the EITC as a more efficient method, as this places the burden on the Fed gov't, not employers. Of course, there are negative effects to that as well. I think employers have enough to worry about in our current economic conditions (even with PPP funding available) and don't need to increase their payroll liabilities at this point. On the flip side, this same analysis stated that a majority of people that would benefit from the RW Act are frontline workers - hospitals, nursing homes, schools, etc. Talk about a tough spot for us to be in.

With a grain of salt - I am now that 54 year old curmudgeon that looks at our politicians with great..scrutiny...as it is finally becoming clear how messed up the US is becoming.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by Cataholic » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:01 pm

PortlandCat90 wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:41 pm

What do economists say about mandated wage hikes?

It is a rhetorical question. Most economists (including economic text books at the college level) that aren't trying to be partisan specifically say that this does not fix poverty or do anything outside of artificially raise costs.


Economist's arguments align with their viewpoint - from the individual's standpoint (raise is good and needed) or from the business standpoint (it's a killer from wage expense standpoint). Bernie Sanders has been in politics since 1971, so he is the last person (Biden close 2nd) that I trust to make a free enterprise business decision with my money/tax dollars.

Individual standpoint - purely personal, I have no idea how someone can live off minimum wage. I've read where this would affect anywhere from 21% - 39% of our workforce. There are many states that have higher min wage than Fed, but very few really approach the $15.

Business standpoint - Econ 101 would tell us that a higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, thus leading to higher unemployment. Think of it this way: you own a small business where you pay me $10/hour. You are looking to expand. Knowing that you have another $5/hour coming over the transition period, are you going to go out and hire another body at that rate, or simply figure out a way to spread that wage over your current employees? Of my 8 clients, we run forecast (payroll) scenarios for 4 of them under these type of scenarios, and the answer is pretty consistent. One client is installing self-order kiosks....in a sit-down restaurant chain. Payback is around 4 months.

Solution?: The Employment Policies Institute, which is the leader in policy ramifications, had the "top" 166 U.S. economists polled, with 72% opposing the $15 minimum wage. They (71%) suggested using the EITC as a more efficient method, as this places the burden on the Fed gov't, not employers. Of course, there are negative effects to that as well. I think employers have enough to worry about in our current economic conditions (even with PPP funding available) and don't need to increase their payroll liabilities at this point. On the flip side, this same analysis stated that a majority of people that would benefit from the RW Act are frontline workers - hospitals, nursing homes, schools, etc. Talk about a tough spot for us to be in.

With a grain of salt - I am now that 54 year old curmudgeon that looks at our politicians with great..scrutiny...as it is finally becoming clear how messed up the US is becoming.
Excellent commentary. Thank you for contributing!



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by RickRund » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:21 pm

The CBO is not in favor of $15 per hour.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/smallbu ... uxbndlbing

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021 ... lion-jobs/

https://slate.com/business/2021/02/mini ... crats.html

Here are three looks at the $15 per hour from vastly different spectrums. Even $15 per hour will not lift one above the poverty level. Figure out a wage that will pull everyone above the poverty level and mandate that wage. Then watch massive unemployment. Question, what is "a fair wage"? $20, $25, $30. I worked with a lady at the county, she was my supervisor, and her son refused any job that did not pay him at least $20..... During his senior year in hs he was failing most of his classes and was not going to receive a diploma. He met with the principal and made a deal, give me my diploma and I will go to summer school and make everything up..... Any guesses how well he did in summer school? This would be my problem with paying someone a really high starting entry wage who has zero work history and who knows what type of work ethic...



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by iaafan » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:57 pm

If you're okay with the current minimum wage, then you have to be okay with welfare supplementing the wages of people who work at huge businesses and you are okay with paying the taxes that are essentially welfare for corporations that make huge profits. I'm okay with that, if you are, so we should no longer have this as a wedge issue and just continue to supplement the wages of people working at, say, WalMart.



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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:34 pm

Ignoring wedge issues would be a great part of a third party/middle class party. It would take great discipline.


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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:00 pm

iaafan wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:57 pm
If you're okay with the current minimum wage, then you have to be okay with welfare supplementing the wages of people who work at huge businesses and you are okay with paying the taxes that are essentially welfare for corporations that make huge profits. I'm okay with that, if you are, so we should no longer have this as a wedge issue and just continue to supplement the wages of people working at, say, WalMart.
So we are in agreement that small businesses need to be held to a different standard or treated to tax breaks and that if we put a $15 minimum wage on all employers over 500/1000 employees we can get rid of all welfare payments?


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Re: Future Leaders of the Dems

Post by Cataholic » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:03 pm

iaafan wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:57 pm
If you're okay with the current minimum wage, then you have to be okay with welfare supplementing the wages of people who work at huge businesses and you are okay with paying the taxes that are essentially welfare for corporations that make huge profits. I'm okay with that, if you are, so we should no longer have this as a wedge issue and just continue to supplement the wages of people working at, say, WalMart.
The CBO estimates that 1.4 million people will lose their jobs with a $15 minimum wage.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4439482001

I could restate your comment above and say “if your okay with the $15 minimum wage, then you are okay with 1.4 million people losing their jobs”. It is just not that simple as you would like it to be.

I know a small business retail owner with 10 employees. They pay about $10 per hour. With a $5 increase in hourly pay, their labor costs will go up over $100,000 per year. I am not sure that they even make $100,000 per year in met income. They will either have to lay off employees or increase prices to their consumers.

The reason that companies can pay minimum wage is because there are people willing to work at those wages. I recall many years ago that Bozeman fast food joints had a shortage of potential workers. The wage for fast food workers went up to $12 per hour to entice workers. That is the free market system at work.



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