Concerns about socialism

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John K
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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by John K » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:25 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:45 pm
John K wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:53 pm
Oh I know they're going to push hard for all, or at least many of those things, but i have to believe that Biden is pragmatic enough to push back on most of them, at least the most extreme things. If he veers too far to the left, it will almost ensure losing both houses back to the GOP in the 2022 mid-terms, and thus making it impossible for him to get anything done during the 2nd half of his term.
You talk about all the people that mindlessly follow Trump despite his actions, but you are doing the exact same thing with Biden. Biden has already made decisions to advance these extreme liberal agendas. The first and most prevalent was choosing Kamala Harris as his Vice President. She has been recognized as the most liberal member of the Senate. More liberal than self proclaimed socialist Bernie Sanders.

https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris- ... ws-1524481

And what happens if Biden can't finish his term due to health issues? Kamala as president, House controlled by Democrats and Senate even... Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and two of her “Squad” allies were appointed Tuesday to the House oversight committee, giving the legislators a valuable perch to influence President-elect Joe Biden’s administration. New "Squad" member of congress Cori Bush actually wants to defund the Pentagon!

I hope you are right that Biden will not allow these extreme agendas to happen. I am more concerned that Biden will not be acting as president before his term ends.
With the people he's chosen to serve in his administration so far, he's gotten more flack from the extreme left wing in the Democratic party, than from conservatives/moderates.



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:01 am



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by Cataholic » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:30 pm

This is an opinion piece in the liberal LA times. The article claims AOC is a moderate. :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:06 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:30 pm
This is an opinion piece in the liberal LA times. The article claims AOC is a moderate. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You should read the story and leave comedy to comedians. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

She’s calling for a 70% tax on the wealthy, which is 2% less than what Reagan had. 72% is moderate considering all the loopholes. The current rate with loopholes is 0% for a lot of corporations. 72% used to get about 35% out the rich back in Reagan’s day.

The story itself is about the far right calling democratic socialists, socialists. The author explains why AOC can be considered moderate. Prior to Reagan the tax rate on the wealthy in America was around 70% for decades.

There are opinions based on and supported by facts and opinions based on hearsay. The author supports comments with facts. Just because someone has an opinion doesn’t mean they’re just making it up based on their hunches.


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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by Cataholic » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:20 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:06 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:30 pm
This is an opinion piece in the liberal LA times. The article claims AOC is a moderate. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You should read the story and leave comedy to comedians. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

She’s calling for a 70% tax on the wealthy, which is 2% less than what Reagan had. 72% is moderate considering all the loopholes. The current rate with loopholes is 0% for a lot of corporations. 72% used to get about 35% out the rich back in Reagan’s day.

The story itself is about the far right calling democratic socialists, socialists. The author explains why AOC can be considered moderate. Prior to Reagan the tax rate on the wealthy in America was around 70% for decades.

There are opinions based on and supported by facts and opinions based on hearsay. The author supports comments with facts. Just because someone has an opinion doesn’t mean they’re just making it up based on their hunches.
What a second. You have argued in the past that opinion pieces were worthless because they were from conservative sources. Now, this is from a liberal left publication and you saying that same criteria doesn’t apply?? Cmon man!

And I bolded the area above where you acknowledge using information “based on hearsay”.

Here is a gods piece below about the different wings of the Democratic Party. In particular, the section classifying AOC.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... party/amp/
The Super Progressives

Very liberal on economic and identity/cultural issues, anti-establishment. (Anti-establishment is a very fuzzy term, but in this piece, what I’m referring to is people who see part of their role as not just attacking Republicans, but also highlighting what they see as shortcomings of the Democratic Party itself.)
Prominent examples: Ocasio-Cortez , Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Rep. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.
I challenge you to go to work on Monday and ask people if AOC is a liberal or moderate.



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:06 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:20 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:06 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:30 pm
This is an opinion piece in the liberal LA times. The article claims AOC is a moderate. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You should read the story and leave comedy to comedians. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

She’s calling for a 70% tax on the wealthy, which is 2% less than what Reagan had. 72% is moderate considering all the loopholes. The current rate with loopholes is 0% for a lot of corporations. 72% used to get about 35% out the rich back in Reagan’s day.

The story itself is about the far right calling democratic socialists, socialists. The author explains why AOC can be considered moderate. Prior to Reagan the tax rate on the wealthy in America was around 70% for decades.

There are opinions based on and supported by facts and opinions based on hearsay. The author supports comments with facts. Just because someone has an opinion doesn’t mean they’re just making it up based on their hunches.
What a second. You have argued in the past that opinion pieces were worthless because they were from conservative sources. Now, this is from a liberal left publication and you saying that same criteria doesn’t apply?? Cmon man!

And I bolded the area above where you acknowledge using information “based on hearsay”.

Here is a gods piece below about the different wings of the Democratic Party. In particular, the section classifying AOC.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... party/amp/
The Super Progressives

Very liberal on economic and identity/cultural issues, anti-establishment. (Anti-establishment is a very fuzzy term, but in this piece, what I’m referring to is people who see part of their role as not just attacking Republicans, but also highlighting what they see as shortcomings of the Democratic Party itself.)
Prominent examples: Ocasio-Cortez , Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Rep. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.
I challenge you to go to work on Monday and ask people if AOC is a liberal or moderate.
When did I say all opinion pieces by a conservative outlets are worthless? Refresh my memory. I think any opinion by conservatives that doesn’t source facts is garbage. Same as a liberal piece. I’ve probably trashed as much liberal opinion as conservative. PM when you post where I said all conservative opinion is worthless.

I’m sure either no one I work knows knows her or if they do if they know if she’s liberal or moderate. She’s actually conservative in some ways. Her Green New Deal has conservative stuff all over it. Something for everyone. Great unifying program.


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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by BozoneCat » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:24 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:20 pm
What a second. You have argued in the past that opinion pieces were worthless because they were from conservative sources. Now, this is from a liberal left publication and you saying that same criteria doesn’t apply?? Cmon man!
I believe Tom has more likely said that using opinion pieces as statements of fact (as “news,” so to speak), is misconstrued. Liberal or conservative, doesn’t matter.

I will agree with you on one thing, AOC is certainly no moderate. I mean, if I had to choose I’d take her over Hawley or Cruz, at least she’s generally coming from a place of concern for her fellow human beings, even if she takes it way too far almost all of the time. But she represents the non-militant far-left side of the Democratic Party, for sure.


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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by Cataholic » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:06 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:20 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:06 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:30 pm
This is an opinion piece in the liberal LA times. The article claims AOC is a moderate. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You should read the story and leave comedy to comedians. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

She’s calling for a 70% tax on the wealthy, which is 2% less than what Reagan had. 72% is moderate considering all the loopholes. The current rate with loopholes is 0% for a lot of corporations. 72% used to get about 35% out the rich back in Reagan’s day.

The story itself is about the far right calling democratic socialists, socialists. The author explains why AOC can be considered moderate. Prior to Reagan the tax rate on the wealthy in America was around 70% for decades.

There are opinions based on and supported by facts and opinions based on hearsay. The author supports comments with facts. Just because someone has an opinion doesn’t mean they’re just making it up based on their hunches.
What a second. You have argued in the past that opinion pieces were worthless because they were from conservative sources. Now, this is from a liberal left publication and you saying that same criteria doesn’t apply?? Cmon man!

And I bolded the area above where you acknowledge using information “based on hearsay”.

Here is a gods piece below about the different wings of the Democratic Party. In particular, the section classifying AOC.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... party/amp/
The Super Progressives

Very liberal on economic and identity/cultural issues, anti-establishment. (Anti-establishment is a very fuzzy term, but in this piece, what I’m referring to is people who see part of their role as not just attacking Republicans, but also highlighting what they see as shortcomings of the Democratic Party itself.)
Prominent examples: Ocasio-Cortez , Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Rep. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.
I challenge you to go to work on Monday and ask people if AOC is a liberal or moderate.
When did I say all opinion pieces by a conservative outlets are worthless? Refresh my memory. I think any opinion by conservatives that doesn’t source facts is garbage. Same as a liberal piece. I’ve probably trashed as much liberal opinion as conservative. PM when you post where I said all conservative opinion is worthless.

I’m sure either no one I work knows knows her or if they do if they know if she’s liberal or moderate. She’s actually conservative in some ways. Her Green New Deal has conservative stuff all over it. Something for everyone. Great unifying program.
Cmon man! Please recall that you posted a media bias chart that categorized how different publications identified politically. (I am not going to go find your post - You should be able to find that yourself). You have regularly used those bias ratings to discount various articles, for example Fox News or the Blaze. The LA Times is a very liberal publication but now that same criteria cant be used to discount their article? Cmon man!

And as far as AOC being moderate, how is your survey going at work today? Anybody else say AOC is a moderate? And that Green New Deal happens to be one of the most progressive policies this country has ever seen. She basically wants to eliminate the petroleum industry which is one of the most important economic industries in the country. She wants to eliminate air travel. She wants to get rid of cows farting because of the impact it has on air quality. Her program is one of the most progressive and liberal ever developed.

And I had posed this question in the past, but nobody answered it. The Billings area has 3 petroleum refineries that directly support about 1,200 jobs. There is a huge indirect economic impact on thousands of jobs from truckers, railroad, restaurants, vendors, etc. Even the school district relies heavily on the huge tax base of the refineries. If those refineries are eliminated by the Green New Deal, please explain to me how those jobs are going to be replaced?



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by iaafan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 am

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 am


And I had posed this question in the past, but nobody answered it. The Billings area has 3 petroleum refineries that directly support about 1,200 jobs. There is a huge indirect economic impact on thousands of jobs from truckers, railroad, restaurants, vendors, etc. Even the school district relies heavily on the huge tax base of the refineries. If those refineries are eliminated by the Green New Deal, please explain to me how those jobs are going to be replaced?
C'mon man! Do you think that the in one day we're going to just stop drilling for oil and replace it with green technology and everyone is just going to lose their job that works in the oil industry without any notice? This post makes it sound like that's what you think.



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by Cataholic » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:42 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 am


And I had posed this question in the past, but nobody answered it. The Billings area has 3 petroleum refineries that directly support about 1,200 jobs. There is a huge indirect economic impact on thousands of jobs from truckers, railroad, restaurants, vendors, etc. Even the school district relies heavily on the huge tax base of the refineries. If those refineries are eliminated by the Green New Deal, please explain to me how those jobs are going to be replaced?
C'mon man! Do you think that the in one day we're going to just stop drilling for oil and replace it with green technology and everyone is just going to lose their job that works in the oil industry without any notice? This post makes it sound like that's what you think.
That is not an answer. That is deflection. It is okay to assume decades to replace those jobs, just put it in your answer. How will those jobs in Billing specifically be replaced? Maybe building windmills? NO! Building electric cars? NO! Help me out...



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by iaafan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:21 am

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 am


And I had posed this question in the past, but nobody answered it. The Billings area has 3 petroleum refineries that directly support about 1,200 jobs. There is a huge indirect economic impact on thousands of jobs from truckers, railroad, restaurants, vendors, etc. Even the school district relies heavily on the huge tax base of the refineries. If those refineries are eliminated by the Green New Deal, please explain to me how those jobs are going to be replaced?
C'mon man! Do you think that the in one day we're going to just stop drilling for oil and replace it with green technology and everyone is just going to lose their job that works in the oil industry without any notice? This post makes it sound like that's what you think.
That is not an answer. That is deflection. It is okay to assume decades to replace those jobs, just put it in your answer. How will those jobs in Billing specifically be replaced? Maybe building windmills? NO! Building electric cars? NO! Help me out...
If you don't want others to deflect, then stop deflecting. It's really that simple. If you hit someone, you should expect to get hit back.

Yes, the money saved from producing less and less oil will be used to provide alternate forms of energy and ultimately more jobs in the energy industry than currently exist. Like how I used to spend money on my land line phone bill, but now spend it on a my cell phone. Do you want to go back to land lines? Do you think the people that worked at ATT and Ma Bell were all laid off when cell phone slowly came on and have replaced almost all of landline services?

If you didn't spend so much time gaslighting everyone and put that effort into conceptualizing in your own mind how these things work you'd be able to figure this stuff out in some detail easily. It's a lot less work than what you're putting yourself through to help win some elections for the Steve Daines of the world.



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by BigBruceBaker » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am

catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 am
Anyone making a claim that America is moving towards socialism either doesn't know what socialism is or is preying on the uninformed. Unfortunately the people doing this are convincing other people, that also don't what it is, that we're moving toward socialism. This is one of the reasons republicans are doing as well as they are in Florida. The Cuban population down there buys this rhetoric easily, not because they don't know what socialism is, but because it's used on them as a scare tactic.
Thanks for all the insights, some great points out there. For the record, I'm not that guy that thinks the sky is falling and we're in a direct path towards socialism (but I know some people who do :shock: ). However, I will say it makes me a bit concerned to hear some Dems saying to strike while the iron is hot and that right now is the time for "transformative change".
I hate hyperbole. What does transformative change mean?

Not directing this just as you, a general/overall question.
In this context I was referring to, it meant a lot of things. Here are some excerpts, and a link to the article.

"Hello! It’s a new day! Who’s ready to PUSH?" Ocasio-Cortez said in an emoji-filled tweet on Wednesday. "Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief? And to PUSH for student loan cancellation? For climate justice? Healthcare? Voting rights? Ending the death penalty? What policies do you most want to PUSH for?"


Pressley (Ayanna) also touted universal health care, housing, jobs, food and "economic justice" in a Wednesday tweet.

"Medicare for all. Housing for all. Jobs for all. Food for all. Economic justice for all. New year," she wrote.


Omar: This is our shot, we can go big or go home.

It’s time to organize, mobilize and push for transformative change.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progre ... te-results
Sorry, I seem to enjoy life a lot more when I spend less time on the political areas of bobcatnation. Didn't mean to not respond.

I appreciate the tweets and the comments. This is important to talk about, and specifics are extremely important.

What do these items mean:
1. housing for all?
2. jobs for all?
3. economic justice for all?

I'm looking for honest answers for people that would vote for the people tweeting these. Any of our left leaning friends on here please let me know.


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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by iaafan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 am
Anyone making a claim that America is moving towards socialism either doesn't know what socialism is or is preying on the uninformed. Unfortunately the people doing this are convincing other people, that also don't what it is, that we're moving toward socialism. This is one of the reasons republicans are doing as well as they are in Florida. The Cuban population down there buys this rhetoric easily, not because they don't know what socialism is, but because it's used on them as a scare tactic.
Thanks for all the insights, some great points out there. For the record, I'm not that guy that thinks the sky is falling and we're in a direct path towards socialism (but I know some people who do :shock: ). However, I will say it makes me a bit concerned to hear some Dems saying to strike while the iron is hot and that right now is the time for "transformative change".
I hate hyperbole. What does transformative change mean?

Not directing this just as you, a general/overall question.
In this context I was referring to, it meant a lot of things. Here are some excerpts, and a link to the article.

"Hello! It’s a new day! Who’s ready to PUSH?" Ocasio-Cortez said in an emoji-filled tweet on Wednesday. "Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief? And to PUSH for student loan cancellation? For climate justice? Healthcare? Voting rights? Ending the death penalty? What policies do you most want to PUSH for?"


Pressley (Ayanna) also touted universal health care, housing, jobs, food and "economic justice" in a Wednesday tweet.

"Medicare for all. Housing for all. Jobs for all. Food for all. Economic justice for all. New year," she wrote.


Omar: This is our shot, we can go big or go home.

It’s time to organize, mobilize and push for transformative change.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progre ... te-results
Sorry, I seem to enjoy life a lot more when I spend less time on the political areas of bobcatnation. Didn't mean to not respond.

I appreciate the tweets and the comments. This is important to talk about, and specifics are extremely important.

What do these items mean:
1. housing for all?
2. jobs for all?
3. economic justice for all?

I'm looking for honest answers for people that would vote for the people tweeting these. Any of our left leaning friends on here please let me know.
AOC explains most of this on her webpage. https://www.ocasiocortez.com/splash She also gives some details on social media.
Last edited by iaafan on Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by BigBruceBaker » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:36 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 am
Anyone making a claim that America is moving towards socialism either doesn't know what socialism is or is preying on the uninformed. Unfortunately the people doing this are convincing other people, that also don't what it is, that we're moving toward socialism. This is one of the reasons republicans are doing as well as they are in Florida. The Cuban population down there buys this rhetoric easily, not because they don't know what socialism is, but because it's used on them as a scare tactic.
Thanks for all the insights, some great points out there. For the record, I'm not that guy that thinks the sky is falling and we're in a direct path towards socialism (but I know some people who do :shock: ). However, I will say it makes me a bit concerned to hear some Dems saying to strike while the iron is hot and that right now is the time for "transformative change".
I hate hyperbole. What does transformative change mean?

Not directing this just as you, a general/overall question.
In this context I was referring to, it meant a lot of things. Here are some excerpts, and a link to the article.

"Hello! It’s a new day! Who’s ready to PUSH?" Ocasio-Cortez said in an emoji-filled tweet on Wednesday. "Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief? And to PUSH for student loan cancellation? For climate justice? Healthcare? Voting rights? Ending the death penalty? What policies do you most want to PUSH for?"


Pressley (Ayanna) also touted universal health care, housing, jobs, food and "economic justice" in a Wednesday tweet.

"Medicare for all. Housing for all. Jobs for all. Food for all. Economic justice for all. New year," she wrote.


Omar: This is our shot, we can go big or go home.

It’s time to organize, mobilize and push for transformative change.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progre ... te-results
Sorry, I seem to enjoy life a lot more when I spend less time on the political areas of bobcatnation. Didn't mean to not respond.

I appreciate the tweets and the comments. This is important to talk about, and specifics are extremely important.

What do these items mean:
1. housing for all?
2. jobs for all?
3. economic justice for all?

I'm looking for honest answers for people that would vote for the people tweeting these. Any of our left leaning friends on here please let me know.
AOC explains most of this on her webpage. https://www.ocasiocortez.com/splash
Appreciate it, I'll do some reading.


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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by iaafan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:21 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:36 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 am
Anyone making a claim that America is moving towards socialism either doesn't know what socialism is or is preying on the uninformed. Unfortunately the people doing this are convincing other people, that also don't what it is, that we're moving toward socialism. This is one of the reasons republicans are doing as well as they are in Florida. The Cuban population down there buys this rhetoric easily, not because they don't know what socialism is, but because it's used on them as a scare tactic.
Thanks for all the insights, some great points out there. For the record, I'm not that guy that thinks the sky is falling and we're in a direct path towards socialism (but I know some people who do :shock: ). However, I will say it makes me a bit concerned to hear some Dems saying to strike while the iron is hot and that right now is the time for "transformative change".
I hate hyperbole. What does transformative change mean?

Not directing this just as you, a general/overall question.
In this context I was referring to, it meant a lot of things. Here are some excerpts, and a link to the article.

"Hello! It’s a new day! Who’s ready to PUSH?" Ocasio-Cortez said in an emoji-filled tweet on Wednesday. "Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief? And to PUSH for student loan cancellation? For climate justice? Healthcare? Voting rights? Ending the death penalty? What policies do you most want to PUSH for?"


Pressley (Ayanna) also touted universal health care, housing, jobs, food and "economic justice" in a Wednesday tweet.

"Medicare for all. Housing for all. Jobs for all. Food for all. Economic justice for all. New year," she wrote.


Omar: This is our shot, we can go big or go home.

It’s time to organize, mobilize and push for transformative change.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progre ... te-results
Sorry, I seem to enjoy life a lot more when I spend less time on the political areas of bobcatnation. Didn't mean to not respond.

I appreciate the tweets and the comments. This is important to talk about, and specifics are extremely important.

What do these items mean:
1. housing for all?
2. jobs for all?
3. economic justice for all?

I'm looking for honest answers for people that would vote for the people tweeting these. Any of our left leaning friends on here please let me know.
AOC explains most of this on her webpage. https://www.ocasiocortez.com/splash
Appreciate it, I'll do some reading.
Likewise, I appreciate the kind words.



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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by Cataholic » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:50 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 am
Anyone making a claim that America is moving towards socialism either doesn't know what socialism is or is preying on the uninformed. Unfortunately the people doing this are convincing other people, that also don't what it is, that we're moving toward socialism. This is one of the reasons republicans are doing as well as they are in Florida. The Cuban population down there buys this rhetoric easily, not because they don't know what socialism is, but because it's used on them as a scare tactic.
Thanks for all the insights, some great points out there. For the record, I'm not that guy that thinks the sky is falling and we're in a direct path towards socialism (but I know some people who do :shock: ). However, I will say it makes me a bit concerned to hear some Dems saying to strike while the iron is hot and that right now is the time for "transformative change".
I hate hyperbole. What does transformative change mean?

Not directing this just as you, a general/overall question.
In this context I was referring to, it meant a lot of things. Here are some excerpts, and a link to the article.

"Hello! It’s a new day! Who’s ready to PUSH?" Ocasio-Cortez said in an emoji-filled tweet on Wednesday. "Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief? And to PUSH for student loan cancellation? For climate justice? Healthcare? Voting rights? Ending the death penalty? What policies do you most want to PUSH for?"


Pressley (Ayanna) also touted universal health care, housing, jobs, food and "economic justice" in a Wednesday tweet.

"Medicare for all. Housing for all. Jobs for all. Food for all. Economic justice for all. New year," she wrote.


Omar: This is our shot, we can go big or go home.

It’s time to organize, mobilize and push for transformative change.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progre ... te-results
Sorry, I seem to enjoy life a lot more when I spend less time on the political areas of bobcatnation. Didn't mean to not respond.

I appreciate the tweets and the comments. This is important to talk about, and specifics are extremely important.

What do these items mean:
1. housing for all?
2. jobs for all?
3. economic justice for all?

I'm looking for honest answers for people that would vote for the people tweeting these. Any of our left leaning friends on here please let me know.
All worthwhile endeavors. But please help me understand how this will be paid for?



Cataholic
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Re: Concerns about socialism

Post by Cataholic » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:01 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:21 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 am


And I had posed this question in the past, but nobody answered it. The Billings area has 3 petroleum refineries that directly support about 1,200 jobs. There is a huge indirect economic impact on thousands of jobs from truckers, railroad, restaurants, vendors, etc. Even the school district relies heavily on the huge tax base of the refineries. If those refineries are eliminated by the Green New Deal, please explain to me how those jobs are going to be replaced?
C'mon man! Do you think that the in one day we're going to just stop drilling for oil and replace it with green technology and everyone is just going to lose their job that works in the oil industry without any notice? This post makes it sound like that's what you think.
That is not an answer. That is deflection. It is okay to assume decades to replace those jobs, just put it in your answer. How will those jobs in Billing specifically be replaced? Maybe building windmills? NO! Building electric cars? NO! Help me out...
If you don't want others to deflect, then stop deflecting. It's really that simple. If you hit someone, you should expect to get hit back.

Yes, the money saved from producing less and less oil will be used to provide alternate forms of energy and ultimately more jobs in the energy industry than currently exist. Like how I used to spend money on my land line phone bill, but now spend it on a my cell phone. Do you want to go back to land lines? Do you think the people that worked at ATT and Ma Bell were all laid off when cell phone slowly came on and have replaced almost all of landline services?

If you didn't spend so much time gaslighting everyone and put that effort into conceptualizing in your own mind how these things work you'd be able to figure this stuff out in some detail easily. It's a lot less work than what you're putting yourself through to help win some elections for the Steve Daines of the world.
This is not deflection. You guys keep saying that, but I want specific answers. You guys claims deflection when you don't have a reasonable answer.

I have given considerable time thinking about this issue. Largely because much of my business is in the oil and gas sector. Your response above is very vague with no details. Your comment bothers me: "If you didn't spend so much time gaslighting everyone and put that effort into conceptualizing in your own mind how these things work you'd be able to figure this stuff out in some detail easily." If I am reading between the lines, you are telling me to "use my imagination" because "you don't actually have any specifics".

If you are so committed to the cause, shouldn't you be able to provide specifics on how these thousands of jobs and tax base in the Billings area will be replaced. Vague comments and analogies are not a plan. Please provide specifics. I will wait patiently.



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