Trump’s taxes

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The Butcher
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Trump’s taxes

Post by The Butcher » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:10 pm

So Trump pays next to nothing in taxes and then he uses our money to go golfing.

I am VERY curious how his base will excuse his criminal tax evasion.

Trump is literally a criminal and is the POTUS. Yikes!



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by wbtfg » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:35 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:10 pm
So Trump pays next to nothing in taxes and then he uses our money to go golfing.

I am VERY curious how his base will excuse his criminal tax evasion.

Trump is literally a criminal and is the POTUS. Yikes!
This will move the needle as much as if he shot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by LCH » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:45 pm

These reports shouldn't come as a surprise. Why anyone thinks he is a good businessman is beyond me, he went bankrupt with a casino for gods sake. Unfortunately the country is being run into the ground the same way, a 984 billion dollar deficit in 2019 (before the pandemic). You can't cut taxes without also cutting spending.

And guess who holds over 1 trillion in US paper...China. That gives them all kinds of financial leverage. Wait till they dump a few hundred billion of our paper and we can no longer sell our debt without paying huge interest.

Trump and Congress are screwing our kids but since Americans are unable to operate with the long term in mind I have little hope we will take care of our huge debt and it will become a crisis like everything else we deal with.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by Cataholic » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm

LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:45 pm
These reports shouldn't come as a surprise. Why anyone thinks he is a good businessman is beyond me, he went bankrupt with a casino for gods sake. Unfortunately the country is being run into the ground the same way, a 984 billion dollar deficit in 2019 (before the pandemic). You can't cut taxes without also cutting spending.

And guess who holds over 1 trillion in US paper...China. That gives them all kinds of financial leverage. Wait till they dump a few hundred billion of our paper and we can no longer sell our debt without paying huge interest.

Trump and Congress are screwing our kids but since Americans are unable to operate with the long term in mind I have little hope we will take care of our huge debt and it will become a crisis like everything else we deal with.
Some of what you say is true. Specifically regarding our growing debt and China. But what is the answer? Certainly not Biden with a liberal agenda and even greater expenses. The Green New Deal and free everything have huge price tags which will drive us even further into debt. And how much would the debt grow if Democrats had the presidency, house and senate?



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by The Butcher » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:50 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm
LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:45 pm
These reports shouldn't come as a surprise. Why anyone thinks he is a good businessman is beyond me, he went bankrupt with a casino for gods sake. Unfortunately the country is being run into the ground the same way, a 984 billion dollar deficit in 2019 (before the pandemic). You can't cut taxes without also cutting spending.

And guess who holds over 1 trillion in US paper...China. That gives them all kinds of financial leverage. Wait till they dump a few hundred billion of our paper and we can no longer sell our debt without paying huge interest.

Trump and Congress are screwing our kids but since Americans are unable to operate with the long term in mind I have little hope we will take care of our huge debt and it will become a crisis like everything else we deal with.
Some of what you say is true. Specifically regarding our growing debt and China. But what is the answer? Certainly not Biden with a liberal agenda and even greater expenses. The Green New Deal and free everything have huge price tags which will drive us even further into debt. And how much would the debt grow if Democrats had the presidency, house and senate?
Hate to break it to you, but the GOP has really screwed things up. I don’t think leaving Trump in charge is any type of solution!



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by wbtfg » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:10 pm

Strange times when our millionaire president spends more on hush money payments to porn stars and playboy models than he does on federal taxes and still doesn’t lose support from the evangelical right.

What a time to be alive.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by LCH » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:18 pm

Here are some facts to ponder. Obama took office in Jan. 2009. From Jan. 2009 through 2012 we ran huge deficits because of the bank bailouts caused by lack of regulation and oversight by Congress on the banking industry. Obama inherited this mess. From 2013 through the end of Obama's presidency we had steadily decreasing federal deficits with the exception of 2016. 2013- 680B, 2014- 485B, 2015- 442B, 2016- 585B

During Trump's tenure 2017-665B, 2018-779B, 2019-984B and we won't count 2020 because of the covid expenses beyond Trump's control.

My point is that both parties are responsible and I'm tired of hearing the famous Republican talking point about the big bad Liberals being the root of all fiscal evil. And I'm probably more Republican than Democrat.

What we can do is cap spending and increase taxes on the richest 1%. Stop sucking the life out of the middle class that have been supporting the whole mess from the Trumps to the welfare folks.

Our military alone wastes incredible amounts of money. I actually witnessed a VA hospital in a large city buy $1,000,000 analyzers and never use them just so their budgets weren't cut. Our Federal government has no incentive to conserve our money. And why do we have to provide retired Senators and Representatives with huge pensions and gilded healthcare? They should have access to the same healthcare we have, maybe then they'd fix it.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by BozoneCat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:40 pm

LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:18 pm
Here are some facts to ponder. Obama took office in Jan. 2009. From Jan. 2009 through 2012 we ran huge deficits because of the bank bailouts caused by lack of regulation and oversight by Congress on the banking industry. Obama inherited this mess. From 2013 through the end of Obama's presidency we had steadily decreasing federal deficits with the exception of 2016. 2013- 680B, 2014- 485B, 2015- 442B, 2016- 585B

During Trump's tenure 2017-665B, 2018-779B, 2019-984B and we won't count 2020 because of the covid expenses beyond Trump's control.

My point is that both parties are responsible and I'm tired of hearing the famous Republican talking point about the big bad Liberals being the root of all fiscal evil. And I'm probably more Republican than Democrat.

What we can do is cap spending and increase taxes on the richest 1%. Stop sucking the life out of the middle class that have been supporting the whole mess from the Trumps to the welfare folks.

Our military alone wastes incredible amounts of money. I actually witnessed a VA hospital in a large city buy $1,000,000 analyzers and never use them just so their budgets weren't cut. Our Federal government has no incentive to conserve our money. And why do we have to provide retired Senators and Representatives with huge pensions and gilded healthcare? They should have access to the same healthcare we have, maybe then they'd fix it.
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Cataholic
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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by Cataholic » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:37 pm

LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:18 pm
Here are some facts to ponder. Obama took office in Jan. 2009. From Jan. 2009 through 2012 we ran huge deficits because of the bank bailouts caused by lack of regulation and oversight by Congress on the banking industry. Obama inherited this mess. From 2013 through the end of Obama's presidency we had steadily decreasing federal deficits with the exception of 2016. 2013- 680B, 2014- 485B, 2015- 442B, 2016- 585B

During Trump's tenure 2017-665B, 2018-779B, 2019-984B and we won't count 2020 because of the covid expenses beyond Trump's control.

My point is that both parties are responsible and I'm tired of hearing the famous Republican talking point about the big bad Liberals being the root of all fiscal evil. And I'm probably more Republican than Democrat.

What we can do is cap spending and increase taxes on the richest 1%. Stop sucking the life out of the middle class that have been supporting the whole mess from the Trumps to the welfare folks.

Our military alone wastes incredible amounts of money. I actually witnessed a VA hospital in a large city buy $1,000,000 analyzers and never use them just so their budgets weren't cut. Our Federal government has no incentive to conserve our money. And why do we have to provide retired Senators and Representatives with huge pensions and gilded healthcare? They should have access to the same healthcare we have, maybe then they'd fix it.
The allure that Trump offered for many voters was to run government more like a business. He has showed flashes at the beginning of his term such as negotiating a better deal on military airplanes. He is working on bringing manufacturing back to the states as well. But I feel like he has such a stubborn streak that he will lose his focus just to make a point. Immigration is a less important issue to me but it has defined his presidency and cast him as a racist. As you alluded to, cutting back on government spending/waste is an area that both parties should be focused on.

Biden has already proposed a 2% increase on those over $400,000 (the wealthiest 1%). Some studies indicate that this will result in GDP actually decreasing. I have mixed feelings on this area, but actually would like to see another tax category for the mega rich. Anybody who is making $5 million per year can afford another couple percent.

But you didn’t answer my question specific to current liberal Democrats. They have a long wish list that will be very expensive. Can we really expect them to curtail government spending?



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by grizgirl » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:17 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:37 pm
LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:18 pm
Here are some facts to ponder. Obama took office in Jan. 2009. From Jan. 2009 through 2012 we ran huge deficits because of the bank bailouts caused by lack of regulation and oversight by Congress on the banking industry. Obama inherited this mess. From 2013 through the end of Obama's presidency we had steadily decreasing federal deficits with the exception of 2016. 2013- 680B, 2014- 485B, 2015- 442B, 2016- 585B

During Trump's tenure 2017-665B, 2018-779B, 2019-984B and we won't count 2020 because of the covid expenses beyond Trump's control.

My point is that both parties are responsible and I'm tired of hearing the famous Republican talking point about the big bad Liberals being the root of all fiscal evil. And I'm probably more Republican than Democrat.

What we can do is cap spending and increase taxes on the richest 1%. Stop sucking the life out of the middle class that have been supporting the whole mess from the Trumps to the welfare folks.

Our military alone wastes incredible amounts of money. I actually witnessed a VA hospital in a large city buy $1,000,000 analyzers and never use them just so their budgets weren't cut. Our Federal government has no incentive to conserve our money. And why do we have to provide retired Senators and Representatives with huge pensions and gilded healthcare? They should have access to the same healthcare we have, maybe then they'd fix it.
The allure that Trump offered for many voters was to run government more like a business. He has showed flashes at the beginning of his term such as negotiating a better deal on military airplanes. He is working on bringing manufacturing back to the states as well. But I feel like he has such a stubborn streak that he will lose his focus just to make a point. Immigration is a less important issue to me but it has defined his presidency and cast him as a racist. As you alluded to, cutting back on government spending/waste is an area that both parties should be focused on.

Biden has already proposed a 2% increase on those over $400,000 (the wealthiest 1%). Some studies indicate that this will result in GDP actually decreasing. I have mixed feelings on this area, but actually would like to see another tax category for the mega rich. Anybody who is making $5 million per year can afford another couple percent.

But you didn’t answer my question specific to current liberal Democrats. They have a long wish list that will be very expensive. Can we really expect them to curtail government spending?
You're exactly right, LCH.

Cataholic: improvements cost money, but pay for themselves in the long run and/or are necessary. More educated people is more money in the tax chest in the long run. Clean air and environment ensures that the planet/country are livable, along with creating new jobs. Healthcare for all, like education, makes people more productive and pumps money into the tax chest. Cutting taxes on the rich and decreasing public education and forcing people to buy insurance in the free market either maintains the failing status quo or makes things worse, and always initiates a recession.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by The Butcher » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:34 am

Trump seems sure to face heavy financial pressures from the enormous pile of debt he has absorbed. The Times said the president appears to be responsible for $421 million in loans, most of which will come due within four years. On top of that, a $100 million mortgage on Trump Tower in New York will come due in 2022. The pressure from these loans coming due will be staggering and could easily compromise Trump's decisions as he looks at self preservation.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by iaafan » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:55 am




LCH
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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by LCH » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:30 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:37 pm
LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:18 pm
Here are some facts to ponder. Obama took office in Jan. 2009. From Jan. 2009 through 2012 we ran huge deficits because of the bank bailouts caused by lack of regulation and oversight by Congress on the banking industry. Obama inherited this mess. From 2013 through the end of Obama's presidency we had steadily decreasing federal deficits with the exception of 2016. 2013- 680B, 2014- 485B, 2015- 442B, 2016- 585B

During Trump's tenure 2017-665B, 2018-779B, 2019-984B and we won't count 2020 because of the covid expenses beyond Trump's control.

My point is that both parties are responsible and I'm tired of hearing the famous Republican talking point about the big bad Liberals being the root of all fiscal evil. And I'm probably more Republican than Democrat.

What we can do is cap spending and increase taxes on the richest 1%. Stop sucking the life out of the middle class that have been supporting the whole mess from the Trumps to the welfare folks.

Our military alone wastes incredible amounts of money. I actually witnessed a VA hospital in a large city buy $1,000,000 analyzers and never use them just so their budgets weren't cut. Our Federal government has no incentive to conserve our money. And why do we have to provide retired Senators and Representatives with huge pensions and gilded healthcare? They should have access to the same healthcare we have, maybe then they'd fix it.
The allure that Trump offered for many voters was to run government more like a business. He has showed flashes at the beginning of his term such as negotiating a better deal on military airplanes. He is working on bringing manufacturing back to the states as well. But I feel like he has such a stubborn streak that he will lose his focus just to make a point. Immigration is a less important issue to me but it has defined his presidency and cast him as a racist. As you alluded to, cutting back on government spending/waste is an area that both parties should be focused on.

Biden has already proposed a 2% increase on those over $400,000 (the wealthiest 1%). Some studies indicate that this will result in GDP actually decreasing. I have mixed feelings on this area, but actually would like to see another tax category for the mega rich. Anybody who is making $5 million per year can afford another couple percent.

But you didn’t answer my question specific to current liberal Democrats. They have a long wish list that will be very expensive. Can we really expect them to curtail government spending?
I understand why Trump was elected. People falsely thought he was a successful businessman because they watched reality TV. His real business plan is to piss away other people's money, 1st his inheritance, and then 100's of millions in loans, and now he's running the country in the same way.

As far as current liberal Democrats... I would argue that most Democrats are more toward the moderate side but you only hear Pelosi and Schumer because that's what you want to hear. Trust me, there are as many far right Republicans that are nut jobs.

We've been trying for years to pretend "trickle down economic" works, lower taxes on the rich trickles down to feed the economy. It doesn't. The rich offshore their money to avoid taxes, stash it away in expensive toys, and give it to their kids (like Donald). Unfortunately people writing tax policy are bought by large companies and individuals because our campaign finance laws and laws on lobbying allow it.

What would work is lowering taxes on the middle class who actually spend their money and this money trickles up through the economy. Remember Trump's tax cut plan for the middle class expires in 2025 but corporate tax rates don't expire. I do agree that corporate tax rates needed to be lowered somewhat but for a company like Amazon to pay no taxes in 2017 and 2018 and only 162 million in 2019 on 13.9B in profit (1.2% tax rate) is ridiculous.

And yes we must cut spending and focus what we do spend on infrastructure, education, climate change, affordable housing, etc.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by iaafan » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:05 am




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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by The Butcher » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:18 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:05 am
I think there is a mistake in Obama's taxes paid line. :wink:



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by iaafan » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:27 am

The Butcher wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:18 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:05 am
I think there is a mistake in Obama's taxes paid line. :wink:
Maybe, but not according to this:
Today, the President released his 2009 federal income and gift tax returns. He and the First Lady filed their income tax return jointly and reported an adjusted gross income of $ 5,505,409. The vast majority of the family’s 2009 income is the proceeds from the sale of the President’s books. The Obamas paid $1,792,414 in federal income tax.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/bl ... ax-returns



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by Cataholic » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:32 am

The Butcher wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:34 am
Trump seems sure to face heavy financial pressures from the enormous pile of debt he has absorbed. The Times said the president appears to be responsible for $421 million in loans, most of which will come due within four years. On top of that, a $100 million mortgage on Trump Tower in New York will come due in 2022. The pressure from these loans coming due will be staggering and could easily compromise Trump's decisions as he looks at self preservation.
Seriously? I guess Kamala should pull out as VP as well. How is she going to deal with the stress?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... to-vendors



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:41 am

We. NEED. Sports.

8)



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by LCH » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:58 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:41 am
We. NEED. Sports.

8)
Yep, and for this damned election to be over.



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Re: Trump’s taxes

Post by Cataholic » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:44 am

LCH wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:30 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:37 pm
LCH wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:18 pm
Here are some facts to ponder. Obama took office in Jan. 2009. From Jan. 2009 through 2012 we ran huge deficits because of the bank bailouts caused by lack of regulation and oversight by Congress on the banking industry. Obama inherited this mess. From 2013 through the end of Obama's presidency we had steadily decreasing federal deficits with the exception of 2016. 2013- 680B, 2014- 485B, 2015- 442B, 2016- 585B

During Trump's tenure 2017-665B, 2018-779B, 2019-984B and we won't count 2020 because of the covid expenses beyond Trump's control.

My point is that both parties are responsible and I'm tired of hearing the famous Republican talking point about the big bad Liberals being the root of all fiscal evil. And I'm probably more Republican than Democrat.

What we can do is cap spending and increase taxes on the richest 1%. Stop sucking the life out of the middle class that have been supporting the whole mess from the Trumps to the welfare folks.

Our military alone wastes incredible amounts of money. I actually witnessed a VA hospital in a large city buy $1,000,000 analyzers and never use them just so their budgets weren't cut. Our Federal government has no incentive to conserve our money. And why do we have to provide retired Senators and Representatives with huge pensions and gilded healthcare? They should have access to the same healthcare we have, maybe then they'd fix it.
The allure that Trump offered for many voters was to run government more like a business. He has showed flashes at the beginning of his term such as negotiating a better deal on military airplanes. He is working on bringing manufacturing back to the states as well. But I feel like he has such a stubborn streak that he will lose his focus just to make a point. Immigration is a less important issue to me but it has defined his presidency and cast him as a racist. As you alluded to, cutting back on government spending/waste is an area that both parties should be focused on.

Biden has already proposed a 2% increase on those over $400,000 (the wealthiest 1%). Some studies indicate that this will result in GDP actually decreasing. I have mixed feelings on this area, but actually would like to see another tax category for the mega rich. Anybody who is making $5 million per year can afford another couple percent.

But you didn’t answer my question specific to current liberal Democrats. They have a long wish list that will be very expensive. Can we really expect them to curtail government spending?
I understand why Trump was elected. People falsely thought he was a successful businessman because they watched reality TV. His real business plan is to piss away other people's money, 1st his inheritance, and then 100's of millions in loans, and now he's running the country in the same way.

As far as current liberal Democrats... I would argue that most Democrats are more toward the moderate side but you only hear Pelosi and Schumer because that's what you want to hear. Trust me, there are as many far right Republicans that are nut jobs.

We've been trying for years to pretend "trickle down economic" works, lower taxes on the rich trickles down to feed the economy. It doesn't. The rich offshore their money to avoid taxes, stash it away in expensive toys, and give it to their kids (like Donald). Unfortunately people writing tax policy are bought by large companies and individuals because our campaign finance laws and laws on lobbying allow it.

What would work is lowering taxes on the middle class who actually spend their money and this money trickles up through the economy. Remember Trump's tax cut plan for the middle class expires in 2025 but corporate tax rates don't expire. I do agree that corporate tax rates needed to be lowered somewhat but for a company like Amazon to pay no taxes in 2017 and 2018 and only 162 million in 2019 on 13.9B in profit (1.2% tax rate) is ridiculous.

And yes we must cut spending and focus what we do spend on infrastructure, education, climate change, affordable housing, etc.
If there are more moderate Democrats, they need to step and take a leadership role. You have others in the Democratic Party like AOC that are so far left and are being touted as the future leaders of the party. I have not seen anything that leads me to believe that moderates have a voice in Democratic discussions.

I haven’t seen the details but sounds like Trump is writing off past losses. There is nothing illegal about it. Butcher called him a crook but these tax laws were written way before Trump. He is doing what every person who files taxes are also allowed to do - and do it legally.

We all know that the real estate market has taken some huge hits in the past decade. Given that Trump is so heavily in real estate, I am not sure why it is a sudden revelation that he has taken some losses.

I have seen multiple references to this $100 million loan on Trump Tower. The building is actually worth over $400 million. None of us know the exact particulars, but I don’t expect Trump will be filing for bankruptcy anytime soon. He also has a significant ownership of the 1290 Avenue of the Americas ($2.3 billion in value) and a skyscraper in San Francisco ($1.6 billion in value). People see a liberal paper like the NYT print a one sided article and rush to judgement on such items. It blows me away. I am sure Trump has had some setbacks, but he clearly is not a business failure as many try to portray.

I hate seeing stories about companies that have not paid a reasonable share of income to taxes. And YES, 1.2% tax rate is way too low.

I do okay financially and can tell you that I pay way too much in taxes. If I am allowed to keep more of that, I will spend more in the economy. I am not sure about tax havens offshore that you mentioned, but let’s close the loop on those if they exist. Everyone should pay their fair share. Luxury taxes on luxury items should also exist. If you can afford the toy, you can afford the extra tax. It is that simple.

We actually agree on a number of items, but you really haven’t answered my question on Democrats running the country. More specifically, would we be better off financially with the liberal Democrats spending so much more money? Here is a news article on Biden and free education. We should also include the proposed $2.4 trillion (down from their original request for $3.4 trillion) Covid relief bill that Democrats proposed (compared to the $1 trillion that Republicans have proposed).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedm ... 4668cc65f7



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