Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

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TomCat88
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Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm

Could this be a turning point? Attorney Crump got $12 million and police reform for Taylor’s family in a settlement with the city of Louisville. This should get the attention of law enforcement agencies nationwide. It’s one of the largest settlements in a police brutality case in US history.


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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:50 am

People seem so bent out of shape about the things police do to blacks and the reaction blacks have, that no one is focused on solutions.

A great solution is development of quality lawyers that can take on these cases and hit municipalities where it counts, which is their wallets and their policies.

Law enforcement is put into horrible situations and many of the officers don’t have the ability to handle them.

Banging on someone’s door early in the morning with guns pulled is simply not a situation any police officer should be put in. Too many things can go wrong.

Meanwhile, everyone is either pissed at the cops or pissed at the rioters. This isn’t wholly, or even mostly, on them. It’s on the people writing policy and doing the hiring. Not enough people talking about that. Too focused on the actual shootings, and athletes kneeling and riots. That’s not gonna solve the problem.

The results of this settlement have a much better chance of fixing this or at least making it better.


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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by BigBruceBaker » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:45 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:50 am
People seem so bent out of shape about the things police do to blacks and the reaction blacks have, that no one is focused on solutions.

A great solution is development of quality lawyers that can take on these cases and hit municipalities where it counts, which is their wallets and their policies.

Law enforcement is put into horrible situations and many of the officers don’t have the ability to handle them.

Banging on someone’s door early in the morning with guns pulled is simply not a situation any police officer should be put in. Too many things can go wrong.

Meanwhile, everyone is either pissed at the cops or pissed at the rioters. This isn’t wholly, or even mostly, on them. It’s on the people writing policy and doing the hiring. Not enough people talking about that. Too focused on the actual shootings, and athletes kneeling and riots. That’s not gonna solve the problem.

The results of this settlement have a much better chance of fixing this or at least making it better.
I thought it was a no knock warrant - so they just enter. Is that not correct?


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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by RickRund » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:45 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:50 am
People seem so bent out of shape about the things police do to blacks and the reaction blacks have, that no one is focused on solutions.

A great solution is development of quality lawyers that can take on these cases and hit municipalities where it counts, which is their wallets and their policies.

Law enforcement is put into horrible situations and many of the officers don’t have the ability to handle them.

Banging on someone’s door early in the morning with guns pulled is simply not a situation any police officer should be put in. Too many things can go wrong.

Meanwhile, everyone is either pissed at the cops or pissed at the rioters. This isn’t wholly, or even mostly, on them. It’s on the people writing policy and doing the hiring. Not enough people talking about that. Too focused on the actual shootings, and athletes kneeling and riots. That’s not gonna solve the problem.

The results of this settlement have a much better chance of fixing this or at least making it better.
I thought it was a no knock warrant - so they just enter. Is that not correct?
Yes, hers was a no-knock. I believe the police would rather do a no-knock as they are safer for the police. They would rather get to the people while there is some confusion with the suspects and not give them time to possibly lock and load.



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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by BigBruceBaker » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:13 am

RickRund wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:45 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:50 am
People seem so bent out of shape about the things police do to blacks and the reaction blacks have, that no one is focused on solutions.

A great solution is development of quality lawyers that can take on these cases and hit municipalities where it counts, which is their wallets and their policies.

Law enforcement is put into horrible situations and many of the officers don’t have the ability to handle them.

Banging on someone’s door early in the morning with guns pulled is simply not a situation any police officer should be put in. Too many things can go wrong.

Meanwhile, everyone is either pissed at the cops or pissed at the rioters. This isn’t wholly, or even mostly, on them. It’s on the people writing policy and doing the hiring. Not enough people talking about that. Too focused on the actual shootings, and athletes kneeling and riots. That’s not gonna solve the problem.

The results of this settlement have a much better chance of fixing this or at least making it better.
I thought it was a no knock warrant - so they just enter. Is that not correct?
Yes, hers was a no-knock. I believe the police would rather do a no-knock as they are safer for the police. They would rather get to the people while there is some confusion with the suspects and not give them time to possibly lock and load.
I understand the police's reasons however as a property owner I am against them. That feels like the gestapo going door to door. I should have the ability to come to the door, if they come in with guns drawn through a broken down door I'd feel like I have a greater chance of injury because of the surprise factor (ie. I do something stupid like run or reach behind me, which could be misconstrued).


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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by RickRund » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:26 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:13 am
RickRund wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:45 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:50 am
People seem so bent out of shape about the things police do to blacks and the reaction blacks have, that no one is focused on solutions.

A great solution is development of quality lawyers that can take on these cases and hit municipalities where it counts, which is their wallets and their policies.

Law enforcement is put into horrible situations and many of the officers don’t have the ability to handle them.

Banging on someone’s door early in the morning with guns pulled is simply not a situation any police officer should be put in. Too many things can go wrong.

Meanwhile, everyone is either pissed at the cops or pissed at the rioters. This isn’t wholly, or even mostly, on them. It’s on the people writing policy and doing the hiring. Not enough people talking about that. Too focused on the actual shootings, and athletes kneeling and riots. That’s not gonna solve the problem.

The results of this settlement have a much better chance of fixing this or at least making it better.
I thought it was a no knock warrant - so they just enter. Is that not correct?
Yes, hers was a no-knock. I believe the police would rather do a no-knock as they are safer for the police. They would rather get to the people while there is some confusion with the suspects and not give them time to possibly lock and load.
I understand the police's reasons however as a property owner I am against them. That feels like the gestapo going door to door. I should have the ability to come to the door, if they come in with guns drawn through a broken down door I'd feel like I have a greater chance of injury because of the surprise factor (ie. I do something stupid like run or reach behind me, which could be misconstrued).
And far too many are going full stupid like running AND reaching behind/reaching for something which does not end well. If someone were to approach me menacingly and reach for what I think is a weapon I could very possibly react negatively TO THEM..

There is only one instance where the police may have acted irresponsibly, actually probably, and that is the Breonna Taylor situation. Although her details have changed after more investigation.



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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:57 am

RickRund wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:26 am

There is only one instance where the police may have acted irresponsibly, actually probably, and that is the Breonna Taylor situation. Although her details have changed after more investigation.
Wait. What do you mean by there's only been one instance? Like in our entire country? Just of these last 5-10 that have made the news? Seems like even in just the last few incidents there are some things that could have been done differently than shooting people. Just curious what you meant by only one instance where police acted irresponsibly.



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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by iaafan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:08 am

I'm certainly no expert, but how about pull up to the house, surround it, call, text, or PA system the person of interest/criminal, notify them that they are outside, armed, have the house surrounded and are using video to record the arrest to protect both the person of interest/criminal and themselves. Then order them to come outside with hands up and to lay down on the sidewalk with arms/hands extended. Or something like that.

Yeah, I know they're are some hardened criminals out there that need more aggressive treatment, but in many cases it seems over the cop. There has to be a better way than busting the door down. Are these people going to necessarily believe it's the police when they're startled out of bed? It doesn't seem safe for the officers or anyone else. If I was a cop, I'd be like, "isn't there a safer way to do this?" And I'd be wondering about any fellow cop that actually liked to do it. Seems very primitive.



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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by RickRund » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:38 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:57 am
RickRund wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:26 am

There is only one instance where the police may have acted irresponsibly, actually probably, and that is the Breonna Taylor situation. Although her details have changed after more investigation.
Wait. What do you mean by there's only been one instance? Like in our entire country? Just of these last 5-10 that have made the news? Seems like even in just the last few incidents there are some things that could have been done differently than shooting people. Just curious what you meant by only one instance where police acted irresponsibly.
I will go with the last 5-10. Even as far back as Trayvon I can remember 2 instances, Garner and Taylor. I am sure I have missed a few. Mind you, my memory is not as it once was. Also as I remember going back to the last 5-10 if suspects would have acted differently there might have been (might) no issues. I can remember one video of one black gentleman that was fully obeying and was jumped by two officers. From the full video I saw he was doing absolutely nothing improper. Not saying there are no bad police. Heck, there are bad clergy, bad doctors, bad "put in your profession"... Heck, when people buy products I think you probably see more people saying what a piece of junk over great product.

Feeling that with the heightened awareness nowadays that Police are extra jumpy...



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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by Cataholic » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:38 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:13 am
RickRund wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:45 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:50 am
People seem so bent out of shape about the things police do to blacks and the reaction blacks have, that no one is focused on solutions.

A great solution is development of quality lawyers that can take on these cases and hit municipalities where it counts, which is their wallets and their policies.

Law enforcement is put into horrible situations and many of the officers don’t have the ability to handle them.

Banging on someone’s door early in the morning with guns pulled is simply not a situation any police officer should be put in. Too many things can go wrong.

Meanwhile, everyone is either pissed at the cops or pissed at the rioters. This isn’t wholly, or even mostly, on them. It’s on the people writing policy and doing the hiring. Not enough people talking about that. Too focused on the actual shootings, and athletes kneeling and riots. That’s not gonna solve the problem.

The results of this settlement have a much better chance of fixing this or at least making it better.
I thought it was a no knock warrant - so they just enter. Is that not correct?
Yes, hers was a no-knock. I believe the police would rather do a no-knock as they are safer for the police. They would rather get to the people while there is some confusion with the suspects and not give them time to possibly lock and load.
I understand the police's reasons however as a property owner I am against them. That feels like the gestapo going door to door. I should have the ability to come to the door, if they come in with guns drawn through a broken down door I'd feel like I have a greater chance of injury because of the surprise factor (ie. I do something stupid like run or reach behind me, which could be misconstrued).
The burden to obtain a no knock warrant should be extremely high. That is one reason the Breonna Taylor litigation resulted in such a high settlement. The no knock warrant should not have been issued and the search of the property could have taken place in a different manner.

However, for this particular incident, there was extenuating circumstances that led to the shooting. Taylor’s boyfriend in the apartment actually fired the first shot hitting a policeman coming in, which then led to another policeman returning fire which led to the death of Taylor. Here is a pretty good article on the incident:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna ... olice.html

This was a horrible tragedy that could have happened anywhere, including Bozeman. That is what I don’t quite understand though about this incident. Of course Breonna was black, but I don’t see how her race had anything to do with this shooting. Police really f**ked up (Including the judge) and people should be fired, but it wasn’t because Breonna was black. I expect the exact same outcome would have occurred if she was white.



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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:27 pm

iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:08 am
I'm certainly no expert, but how about pull up to the house, surround it, call, text, or PA system the person of interest/criminal, notify them that they are outside, armed, have the house surrounded and are using video to record the arrest to protect both the person of interest/criminal and themselves. Then order them to come outside with hands up and to lay down on the sidewalk with arms/hands extended. Or something like that.

Yeah, I know they're are some hardened criminals out there that need more aggressive treatment, but in many cases it seems over the cop. There has to be a better way than busting the door down. Are these people going to necessarily believe it's the police when they're startled out of bed? It doesn't seem safe for the officers or anyone else. If I was a cop, I'd be like, "isn't there a safer way to do this?" And I'd be wondering about any fellow cop that actually liked to do it. Seems very primitive.
It also seems like the have different policies for blacks. Had Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend been white would they have conducted themselves the same way? I highly doubt it. This is another reason for reform. Be consistent.


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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:54 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:27 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:08 am
I'm certainly no expert, but how about pull up to the house, surround it, call, text, or PA system the person of interest/criminal, notify them that they are outside, armed, have the house surrounded and are using video to record the arrest to protect both the person of interest/criminal and themselves. Then order them to come outside with hands up and to lay down on the sidewalk with arms/hands extended. Or something like that.

Yeah, I know they're are some hardened criminals out there that need more aggressive treatment, but in many cases it seems over the cop. There has to be a better way than busting the door down. Are these people going to necessarily believe it's the police when they're startled out of bed? It doesn't seem safe for the officers or anyone else. If I was a cop, I'd be like, "isn't there a safer way to do this?" And I'd be wondering about any fellow cop that actually liked to do it. Seems very primitive.
It also seems like the have different policies for blacks. Had Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend been white would they have conducted themselves the same way? I highly doubt it. This is another reason for reform. Be consistent.
Do police not do "no knock" warrants on white people? Do police not kill white people?

Who is "they"? Do black police officers also have different policies for black suspects? Do Hispanic and Asian police also have different polices for just black suspects?

As a percentage of populations do black or white police officers kill more black suspects? Same question vise versa, as a percentage of populations do black or white police officers kill more white suspects?


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Re: Ben Crump, Breonna Taylor win settlement

Post by TomCat88 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:31 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:54 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:27 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:08 am
I'm certainly no expert, but how about pull up to the house, surround it, call, text, or PA system the person of interest/criminal, notify them that they are outside, armed, have the house surrounded and are using video to record the arrest to protect both the person of interest/criminal and themselves. Then order them to come outside with hands up and to lay down on the sidewalk with arms/hands extended. Or something like that.

Yeah, I know they're are some hardened criminals out there that need more aggressive treatment, but in many cases it seems over the cop. There has to be a better way than busting the door down. Are these people going to necessarily believe it's the police when they're startled out of bed? It doesn't seem safe for the officers or anyone else. If I was a cop, I'd be like, "isn't there a safer way to do this?" And I'd be wondering about any fellow cop that actually liked to do it. Seems very primitive.
It also seems like the have different policies for blacks. Had Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend been white would they have conducted themselves the same way? I highly doubt it. This is another reason for reform. Be consistent.
Do police not do "no knock" warrants on white people? Do police not kill white people?

Who is "they"? Do black police officers also have different policies for black suspects? Do Hispanic and Asian police also have different polices for just black suspects?

As a percentage of populations do black or white police officers kill more black suspects? Same question vise versa, as a percentage of populations do black or white police officers kill more white suspects?
I shouldn’t have used the word policies. Probably should’ve said preconceived notions.

Yes, obviously they have no knock warrants for whites.

What I mean is are the officers, who are being put in what I think is a very unenviable position and they have my utmost respect and sympathy for having to perform a task like that, more inclined to shoot and continue shooting if they know they’re entering a black home. I tend to think so, which why I’m in favor of reform. I don’t know the answers to all your questions regarding the percentages. I assume you’re implying that the stats tell a different story. If so I’m open to having my mind changed by them.


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