Has this ever happened before?

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Cataholic
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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:24 am

Infighting within the Democrats. Too far left... I seriously would have considering voting for Manchin for President.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/12/aoc-fumes ... tweet/amp/






iaafan
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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by iaafan » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 am

Cataholic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:11 am
iaafan wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:54 am
Cataholic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:44 am
Trump is saying he's going to run again in 2024. If not, someone like him will run and almost certainly get nominated. The people behind Trump make up a huge chunk of the Republican party. Almost anyone who isn't in that chunk will slide over and vote for him after he gets nominated. These people aren't going away any time soon. They'll only go away when the next wingnut faction presents itself. Tea Party...Trumpers...???
Let him run in 2024. He won’t get the nomination. The vast majority of Republicans are tired of his shenanigans. The only reason I wanted to see him re-elected this year was because the far left has become so prevalent in the Democratic Party. I was going to start another thread, but the Democratic Party has been in disarray since the election with infighting between liberals and moderates. Just do a search on Joe Manchin. After 4 years of liberal rule under Biden (and most likely Harris as President), this country will be begging for a new option in 2024.
The left is not as far left as the right is far right. The left is conservative compared to how it was up to when LBJ was president. That changed when Carter took office and has held the same ever since. The things you think are far left were common place from FDR to LBJ.

What does "most likely Harris as President" mean? Are you saying that Biden is most likely going to die in office?
The Democratic Party is very far left right now and many Democrats are blaming their losses in the House and Senate on this left faction. I will post some specific examples later today, but the party is definitely in disarray.

In order to compare today’s Democratic Party to FDR and LBJ, you really need to compare societies as well. For example, Robert Byrd was a Democratic member of Congress during that period, but he was also a member of the KKK. Union members used to be strictly Democrats but many lean to Republicans nowadays for a variety of issues ranging from gun control to immigration to health care to police support.

The assertions that Republicans are farther right than ever is just false. Please provide examples.

Kamala will be president because Biden will be declared mentally unfit before his term is up.
I agree the Democratic party is in disarray, it almost always is compared to the Republican party, which is always in lockstep with each other and has no shame in their game. Disarray, however, comes from self-awareness. Dems know that what they're pushing is a huge turnoff to the right and they have a tough time coming together to point out all the strengths of things like the Green New Deal. That has been a big fault with the party since LBJ left office.

Internationally the Republican party if farther right than the Democrat party is left. This began with Reagan and has trended further and further in that direction ever since.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/rem ... -2019.aspx

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... right.html
The Republican Party leans much farther right than most traditional conservative parties in Western Europe and Canada, according to an analysis of their election manifestos. It is more extreme than Britain’s Independence Party and France’s National Rally (formerly the National Front), which some consider far-right populist parties. The Democratic Party, in contrast, is positioned closer to mainstream liberal parties.
the Republican Party has allowed its more extreme elements to dominate. “Nowhere in Europe do you have that phenomenon,” he said.
The Democrats fall closer to mainstream left and center-left parties in other countries, like the Social Democratic Party in Germany and Britain’s Labour Party, according to their manifestos’ scores.

And the United States’ political center of gravity is to the right of other countries’, partly because of the lack of a serious left-wing party. Between 2000 and 2012, the Democratic manifestos were to the right of the median party platform. The party has moved left but is still much closer to the center than the Republicans.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2020 ... al-parties
An academic survey shows the American Republican party ranks as one of the worst in the world when it comes to standing up for the rights of ethnic minority groups.
Trump’s GOP is one of the most extreme western parties when it comes to both undermining liberal democratic principles and opposing rights for ethnic minorities

Stuttering doesn't make someone mentally unfit.



Cataholic
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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:11 pm

iaafan wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 am
Cataholic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:11 am
iaafan wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:54 am
Cataholic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:44 am
Trump is saying he's going to run again in 2024. If not, someone like him will run and almost certainly get nominated. The people behind Trump make up a huge chunk of the Republican party. Almost anyone who isn't in that chunk will slide over and vote for him after he gets nominated. These people aren't going away any time soon. They'll only go away when the next wingnut faction presents itself. Tea Party...Trumpers...???
Let him run in 2024. He won’t get the nomination. The vast majority of Republicans are tired of his shenanigans. The only reason I wanted to see him re-elected this year was because the far left has become so prevalent in the Democratic Party. I was going to start another thread, but the Democratic Party has been in disarray since the election with infighting between liberals and moderates. Just do a search on Joe Manchin. After 4 years of liberal rule under Biden (and most likely Harris as President), this country will be begging for a new option in 2024.
The left is not as far left as the right is far right. The left is conservative compared to how it was up to when LBJ was president. That changed when Carter took office and has held the same ever since. The things you think are far left were common place from FDR to LBJ.

What does "most likely Harris as President" mean? Are you saying that Biden is most likely going to die in office?
The Democratic Party is very far left right now and many Democrats are blaming their losses in the House and Senate on this left faction. I will post some specific examples later today, but the party is definitely in disarray.

In order to compare today’s Democratic Party to FDR and LBJ, you really need to compare societies as well. For example, Robert Byrd was a Democratic member of Congress during that period, but he was also a member of the KKK. Union members used to be strictly Democrats but many lean to Republicans nowadays for a variety of issues ranging from gun control to immigration to health care to police support.

The assertions that Republicans are farther right than ever is just false. Please provide examples.

Kamala will be president because Biden will be declared mentally unfit before his term is up.
I agree the Democratic party is in disarray, it almost always is compared to the Republican party, which is always in lockstep with each other and has no shame in their game. Disarray, however, comes from self-awareness. Dems know that what they're pushing is a huge turnoff to the right and they have a tough time coming together to point out all the strengths of things like the Green New Deal. That has been a big fault with the party since LBJ left office.

Internationally the Republican party if farther right than the Democrat party is left. This began with Reagan and has trended further and further in that direction ever since.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/rem ... -2019.aspx

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... right.html
The Republican Party leans much farther right than most traditional conservative parties in Western Europe and Canada, according to an analysis of their election manifestos. It is more extreme than Britain’s Independence Party and France’s National Rally (formerly the National Front), which some consider far-right populist parties. The Democratic Party, in contrast, is positioned closer to mainstream liberal parties.
the Republican Party has allowed its more extreme elements to dominate. “Nowhere in Europe do you have that phenomenon,” he said.
The Democrats fall closer to mainstream left and center-left parties in other countries, like the Social Democratic Party in Germany and Britain’s Labour Party, according to their manifestos’ scores.

And the United States’ political center of gravity is to the right of other countries’, partly because of the lack of a serious left-wing party. Between 2000 and 2012, the Democratic manifestos were to the right of the median party platform. The party has moved left but is still much closer to the center than the Republicans.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2020 ... al-parties
An academic survey shows the American Republican party ranks as one of the worst in the world when it comes to standing up for the rights of ethnic minority groups.
Trump’s GOP is one of the most extreme western parties when it comes to both undermining liberal democratic principles and opposing rights for ethnic minorities

Stuttering doesn't make someone mentally unfit.
I think you are missing one big point with the Democrats. You said that “Dems know that what they're pushing is a huge turnoff to the right”. With all this disarray, it seems many of these new liberal policies are actually being objected to by many Democrats - not just people on the right. That is what this disarray exists. New far left policies that are turning away traditional Democrats.

As for the Republican Party being far right, you provided excerpts from various left publications that provide an opinion. These are not examples like gun control or healthcare or border protection. Did you realize that Bill Clinton and Obama had very similar thoughts on illegal immigration? Today’s Democrats want open borders for all. It is just another example of how far left the Democrats have moved.

https://apnews.com/article/2477111077
Barack Obama said, “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by The Butcher » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:03 am

I think a good example of GOP staying in lockstep internally is the rise of the Tea Party. The GOP gave the Tea Party a substantial voice when their views were not reflective of the overall party or country. That embarrassment has moved the party's identity from the center and has really made it more difficult to appeal to large portions of the country.



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Mtcatfan » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:53 pm

I'm not sure opposing excessive taxation, government intervention in the private sector and stronger immigration control is that far off from what the GOP has always believed. In fact it's lockstep with it - at least it's what most conservatives believe. Don't disagree though that there are a lot of GOP elected officials that are afraid to outwardly express those views.



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:19 pm

Mtcatfan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:53 pm
I'm not sure opposing excessive taxation, government intervention in the private sector and stronger immigration control is that far off from what the GOP has always believed. In fact it's lockstep with it - at least it's what most conservatives believe. Don't disagree though that there are a lot of GOP elected officials that are afraid to outwardly express those views.
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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:50 am

Mtcatfan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:53 pm
I'm not sure opposing excessive taxation, government intervention in the private sector and stronger immigration control is that far off from what the GOP has always believed. In fact it's lockstep with it - at least it's what most conservatives believe. Don't disagree though that there are a lot of GOP elected officials that are afraid to outwardly express those views.
The "excessive taxation" is laughable as the GOP spent like drunken sailors (pre -COVID). Sure they did tax cuts, but they kept spending like the money was still there after the cuts were made. The experts said the tax cuts would lead to huge debt, but that didn't matter to the GOP.

Government intervention in the private sector? Hmmmmm. Twitter and TikTok are great examples of that not being true.

Immigration... Fine, but Trump made it a bigger issue than it had been in recent years.



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by iaafan » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:27 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:50 am
Mtcatfan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:53 pm
I'm not sure opposing excessive taxation, government intervention in the private sector and stronger immigration control is that far off from what the GOP has always believed. In fact it's lockstep with it - at least it's what most conservatives believe. Don't disagree though that there are a lot of GOP elected officials that are afraid to outwardly express those views.
The "excessive taxation" is laughable as the GOP spent like drunken sailors (pre -COVID). Sure they did tax cuts, but they kept spending like the money was still there after the cuts were made. The experts said the tax cuts would lead to huge debt, but that didn't matter to the GOP.

Government intervention in the private sector? Hmmmmm. Twitter and TikTok are great examples of that not being true.

Immigration... Fine, but Trump made it a bigger issue than it had been in recent years.
=D^ =D^



Mtcatfan
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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Mtcatfan » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:27 pm

I said the GOP (and I) believed in those things - not that they are any good at it.



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:27 pm

This is just crazy. This guy has made so many bad decisions yet is a darling of the left.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/gov-andre ... ndemic.amp



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by RickRund » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:19 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:27 pm
This is just crazy. This guy has made so many bad decisions yet is a darling of the left.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/gov-andre ... ndemic.amp
The guy is a complete joke. Runs in the family...



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am

CDS?


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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am
CDS?
Do you think he deserves an Emmy?

And New York continues to devolve into chaos. Between Cuomo and Deblasio, the city doesn’t have a chance.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/subway-shovi ... to-anarchy
The increase in violence has given rise to fears that the city could be returning to darker times, decades ago, when residents feared for their safety amid a crack epidemic. The new crime wave comes as the city also grapples with a faltering economy and pressure to enact police reforms championed by racial justice advocates.

"It's almost like a perfect storm," Alfred Titus Jr., an assistant professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former NYPD homicide detective, previously told Fox News. "We had bail reform, then defunding the police, which cut the amount of officers on the streets and the overtime that could be made, and now we have COVID-19."

Citywide, shootings have nearly doubled -- from 698 last year to 1,359 this year as of Nov. 15, according to NYPD figures. 

Police union officials lay the blame squarely on elected officials. The Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers, and the Sergeants Benevolent Association have chided local leaders and their progressive policies for handicapping officers on the street and emboldening criminals. 



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by RickRund » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am
CDS?
Do you think he deserves an Emmy?

And New York continues to devolve into chaos. Between Cuomo and Deblasio, the city doesn’t have a chance.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/subway-shovi ... to-anarchy
The increase in violence has given rise to fears that the city could be returning to darker times, decades ago, when residents feared for their safety amid a crack epidemic. The new crime wave comes as the city also grapples with a faltering economy and pressure to enact police reforms championed by racial justice advocates.

"It's almost like a perfect storm," Alfred Titus Jr., an assistant professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former NYPD homicide detective, previously told Fox News. "We had bail reform, then defunding the police, which cut the amount of officers on the streets and the overtime that could be made, and now we have COVID-19."

Citywide, shootings have nearly doubled -- from 698 last year to 1,359 this year as of Nov. 15, according to NYPD figures. 

Police union officials lay the blame squarely on elected officials. The Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers, and the Sergeants Benevolent Association have chided local leaders and their progressive policies for handicapping officers on the street and emboldening criminals. 
Two of the biggest boneheads in government and there is lots of competition... How cuomo can receive any kind of excellence award is beyond me...



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:39 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am
CDS?
Do you think he deserves an Emmy?

And New York continues to devolve into chaos. Between Cuomo and Deblasio, the city doesn’t have a chance.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/subway-shovi ... to-anarchy
The increase in violence has given rise to fears that the city could be returning to darker times, decades ago, when residents feared for their safety amid a crack epidemic. The new crime wave comes as the city also grapples with a faltering economy and pressure to enact police reforms championed by racial justice advocates.

"It's almost like a perfect storm," Alfred Titus Jr., an assistant professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former NYPD homicide detective, previously told Fox News. "We had bail reform, then defunding the police, which cut the amount of officers on the streets and the overtime that could be made, and now we have COVID-19."

Citywide, shootings have nearly doubled -- from 698 last year to 1,359 this year as of Nov. 15, according to NYPD figures. 

Police union officials lay the blame squarely on elected officials. The Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers, and the Sergeants Benevolent Association have chided local leaders and their progressive policies for handicapping officers on the street and emboldening criminals. 
does it matter if he gets an emmy? i mean who cares. i’m surprised anyone would even notice that or care if they did notice it. emmys are a junior varsity award.


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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by The Butcher » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:45 am

RickRund wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Two of the biggest boneheads in government and there is lots of competition... How cuomo can receive any kind of excellence award is beyond me...
If you think they are boneheads, you should see this Trump guy! :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by iaafan » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:35 am

The Butcher wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:45 am
RickRund wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Two of the biggest boneheads in government and there is lots of competition... How cuomo can receive any kind of excellence award is beyond me...
If you think they are boneheads, you should see this Trump guy! :lol: :lol: :lol:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion ... 382407002/



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:09 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:39 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am
CDS?
Do you think he deserves an Emmy?

And New York continues to devolve into chaos. Between Cuomo and Deblasio, the city doesn’t have a chance.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/subway-shovi ... to-anarchy
The increase in violence has given rise to fears that the city could be returning to darker times, decades ago, when residents feared for their safety amid a crack epidemic. The new crime wave comes as the city also grapples with a faltering economy and pressure to enact police reforms championed by racial justice advocates.

"It's almost like a perfect storm," Alfred Titus Jr., an assistant professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former NYPD homicide detective, previously told Fox News. "We had bail reform, then defunding the police, which cut the amount of officers on the streets and the overtime that could be made, and now we have COVID-19."

Citywide, shootings have nearly doubled -- from 698 last year to 1,359 this year as of Nov. 15, according to NYPD figures. 

Police union officials lay the blame squarely on elected officials. The Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers, and the Sergeants Benevolent Association have chided local leaders and their progressive policies for handicapping officers on the street and emboldening criminals. 
does it matter if he gets an emmy? i mean who cares. i’m surprised anyone would even notice that or care if they did notice it. emmys are a junior varsity award.
How do you think the thousands of New Yorkers that died in nursing homes because of Cuomo’s actions feel about the award? And even if it is a phony award, many easily influenced people watch that garbage and believe it.



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by iaafan » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:41 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:39 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am
CDS?
Do you think he deserves an Emmy?

And New York continues to devolve into chaos. Between Cuomo and Deblasio, the city doesn’t have a chance.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/subway-shovi ... to-anarchy
The increase in violence has given rise to fears that the city could be returning to darker times, decades ago, when residents feared for their safety amid a crack epidemic. The new crime wave comes as the city also grapples with a faltering economy and pressure to enact police reforms championed by racial justice advocates.

"It's almost like a perfect storm," Alfred Titus Jr., an assistant professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former NYPD homicide detective, previously told Fox News. "We had bail reform, then defunding the police, which cut the amount of officers on the streets and the overtime that could be made, and now we have COVID-19."

Citywide, shootings have nearly doubled -- from 698 last year to 1,359 this year as of Nov. 15, according to NYPD figures. 

Police union officials lay the blame squarely on elected officials. The Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers, and the Sergeants Benevolent Association have chided local leaders and their progressive policies for handicapping officers on the street and emboldening criminals. 
does it matter if he gets an emmy? i mean who cares. i’m surprised anyone would even notice that or care if they did notice it. emmys are a junior varsity award.
He's been given the award based on his briefings, not his actions or policies. So, yeah, big deal and congrats to the mayor for giving great presentations to the public, wow.



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Re: Has this ever happened before?

Post by Cataholic » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:07 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:41 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:39 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 am
CDS?
Do you think he deserves an Emmy?

And New York continues to devolve into chaos. Between Cuomo and Deblasio, the city doesn’t have a chance.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/subway-shovi ... to-anarchy
The increase in violence has given rise to fears that the city could be returning to darker times, decades ago, when residents feared for their safety amid a crack epidemic. The new crime wave comes as the city also grapples with a faltering economy and pressure to enact police reforms championed by racial justice advocates.

"It's almost like a perfect storm," Alfred Titus Jr., an assistant professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former NYPD homicide detective, previously told Fox News. "We had bail reform, then defunding the police, which cut the amount of officers on the streets and the overtime that could be made, and now we have COVID-19."

Citywide, shootings have nearly doubled -- from 698 last year to 1,359 this year as of Nov. 15, according to NYPD figures. 

Police union officials lay the blame squarely on elected officials. The Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers, and the Sergeants Benevolent Association have chided local leaders and their progressive policies for handicapping officers on the street and emboldening criminals. 
does it matter if he gets an emmy? i mean who cares. i’m surprised anyone would even notice that or care if they did notice it. emmys are a junior varsity award.
He's been given the award based on his briefings, not his actions or policies. So, yeah, big deal and congrats to the mayor for giving great presentations to the public, wow.
This is an example of party before people. Here is language from the release:
The International Emmy Awards announced on Friday that the Democrat will receive its Founder's Award "in recognition of his leadership during the Covid19 pandemic & his masterful use of TV to inform & calm people around the world."



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