Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

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91catAlum
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Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am

Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by Cataholic » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:23 am

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
There is no common sense with the Democratic left. And the parties leaders will do anything and say anything to get a vote. Omar and AOC are so far left, they should form their own party: the Socialist Party.



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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by Hawks86 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:08 pm

"Defund" is the same as a budget cut or a reallocation to other services.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:25 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:08 pm
"Defund" is the same as a budget cut or a reallocation to other services.
I take defund to mean remove funding, not cut funding. If that were the case,
wouldn't democrats be using different wording, like Budget Cut? Omar used the word disband. I think that's pretty clear.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by RickRund » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:49 pm




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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by RickRund » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:52 pm




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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by Cataholic » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:03 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
I agree with your post. And the thought to defund police is one of the DUMBEST things the Dems have ever proposed. When crime is up, what do you do? You get more police to enforce the laws. You don’t disband them.

The police are not perfect, but let’s work on solving those problems before even contemplating defunding! There are clearly some bad actors in the police force and they need to be removed. The guy who assaulted George Floyd had 14+ complaints of excessive force and he remained on patrol. That is a travesty of the system.

What we really need is good local police leadership. Look at the chief of police in Flint, MI. It should not be an elected position. It should be a hired position based on experience, education, etc. The leader of the organization must implement steps and training at every level to prevent another George Floyd incident. This requires great leadership of an organization, not defunding...



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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I’m not going to try to decide what a new police force should look like until I listen carefully to those who have been the most mistreated by it.

If they decide the training the police have received is proper, I’ll gladly change my tune. I’m certainly not going to take your or any middle to upper class white males word for it. To us the cops don’t seem too bad, because they treat us fairly. I include myself in that group and I think our input is overstated. That would be like having upper-middle class white males making decisions about female health issues.

I’ll stay in my lane and advise others of my ilk to do the same.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:24 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I’m not going to try to decide what a new police force should look like until I listen carefully to those who have been the most mistreated by it.

If they decide the training the police have received is proper, I’ll gladly change my tune. I’m certainly not going to take your or any middle to upper class white males word for it. To us the cops don’t seem too bad, because they treat us fairly. I include myself in that group and I think our input is overstated. That would be like having upper-middle class white males making decisions about female health issues.

I’ll stay in my lane and advise others of my ilk to do the same.
That's fine, and I'll stay in the "reform but continue funding the police" lane until I hear a better solution.

Until then, I still want to be able to call 911 when I need to, and have the police show up to help me or my family.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:29 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:24 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I’m not going to try to decide what a new police force should look like until I listen carefully to those who have been the most mistreated by it.

If they decide the training the police have received is proper, I’ll gladly change my tune. I’m certainly not going to take your or any middle to upper class white males word for it. To us the cops don’t seem too bad, because they treat us fairly. I include myself in that group and I think our input is overstated. That would be like having upper-middle class white males making decisions about female health issues.

I’ll stay in my lane and advise others of my ilk to do the same.
That's fine, and I'll stay in the "reform but continue funding the police" lane until I hear a better solution.

Until then, I still want to be able to call 911 when I need to, and have the police show up to help me or my family.
I’d rather call 911 and have a form of a police force that I’m assured will help anyone, not just me, answer.


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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:56 pm



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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:14 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:24 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I’m not going to try to decide what a new police force should look like until I listen carefully to those who have been the most mistreated by it.

If they decide the training the police have received is proper, I’ll gladly change my tune. I’m certainly not going to take your or any middle to upper class white males word for it. To us the cops don’t seem too bad, because they treat us fairly. I include myself in that group and I think our input is overstated. That would be like having upper-middle class white males making decisions about female health issues.

I’ll stay in my lane and advise others of my ilk to do the same.
That's fine, and I'll stay in the "reform but continue funding the police" lane until I hear a better solution.

Until then, I still want to be able to call 911 when I need to, and have the police show up to help me or my family.
I’d rather call 911 and have a form of a police force that I’m assured will help anyone, not just me, answer.
So you are in favor of disbanding the police immediately? Or do you want to keep them around and continue funding them until someone comes up with a better alternative?


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91catAlum
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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:19 pm

My gosh. You think the looting, vandalism, arson, assaults etc are bad now, wait until there isn't a police force.


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TomCat88
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Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:27 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:14 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:24 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I’m not going to try to decide what a new police force should look like until I listen carefully to those who have been the most mistreated by it.

If they decide the training the police have received is proper, I’ll gladly change my tune. I’m certainly not going to take your or any middle to upper class white males word for it. To us the cops don’t seem too bad, because they treat us fairly. I include myself in that group and I think our input is overstated. That would be like having upper-middle class white males making decisions about female health issues.

I’ll stay in my lane and advise others of my ilk to do the same.
That's fine, and I'll stay in the "reform but continue funding the police" lane until I hear a better solution.

Until then, I still want to be able to call 911 when I need to, and have the police show up to help me or my family.
I’d rather call 911 and have a form of a police force that I’m assured will help anyone, not just me, answer.
So you are in favor of disbanding the police immediately? Or do you want to keep them around and continue funding them until someone comes up with a better alternative?
Probably defunding certain police departments. I don’t think it’s necessary at this time to defund, for instance, the Helena PD. But, like I said, I’m in favor of listening to those with complaints first and letting that guide the process. I’d like to see PDs provide equal service and protection regardless of skin color.


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91catAlum
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Posts: 7130
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Location: Clancy, MT

Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:03 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:27 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:14 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:24 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:55 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
That’s not a very good analogy. Those were radicalized Islamic religious fundamentalists. A subset of that religion, just like many religions have. The police are an improperly trained Governmental institution that is apparently in need of a major overhaul.

Defunding it and replacing it with something else seems logical to me. Again, though, I’m not really sure what needs to be done. I’ll leave that to the people that experience it first hand. Not Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi.

I know quite a few minorities that vote republican and all of them are sick of the police. They were before the Floyd case.
I don't think the analogy is that far off. You are casting a very broad generalization on the entire police force saying they are improperly trained. I'm not familiar enough with police training but if it's inadequate or incorrect, then let's change that. That's a great place to start. But reducing or eliminating funding isn't gonna get that done.

I understand people are just very upset still, and maybe overreacting a bit. But that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I’m not going to try to decide what a new police force should look like until I listen carefully to those who have been the most mistreated by it.

If they decide the training the police have received is proper, I’ll gladly change my tune. I’m certainly not going to take your or any middle to upper class white males word for it. To us the cops don’t seem too bad, because they treat us fairly. I include myself in that group and I think our input is overstated. That would be like having upper-middle class white males making decisions about female health issues.

I’ll stay in my lane and advise others of my ilk to do the same.
That's fine, and I'll stay in the "reform but continue funding the police" lane until I hear a better solution.

Until then, I still want to be able to call 911 when I need to, and have the police show up to help me or my family.
I’d rather call 911 and have a form of a police force that I’m assured will help anyone, not just me, answer.
So you are in favor of disbanding the police immediately? Or do you want to keep them around and continue funding them until someone comes up with a better alternative?
Probably defunding certain police departments. I don’t think it’s necessary at this time to defund, for instance, the Helena PD. But, like I said, I’m in favor of listening to those with complaints first and letting that guide the process. I’d like to see PDs provide equal service and protection regardless of skin color.
I believe in the vast, vast majority of cases, the police do provide equal service regardless of skin color. It's possible I'm wrong but the only evidence I've seen to the contrary is anecdotal.

I'm very curious to see how Biden responds to the Defund The Police movement. The far left is going to put old Joe in some very difficult spots. If he gets on board with too many far left policies, it could cost him the moderate independent vote, and thus the election.


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RickRund
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Posts: 4599
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:08 pm
Location: Post Falls ID

Re: Imagine if Democrats got Their Way...

Post by RickRund » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:32 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:03 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:52 am
Imagine the 2nd amendment was hamstrung or even completely abolished.
Then imagine the Police were defunded, or completely disbanded as Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar called for yesterday.

What would our country look like if we had no public service group to enforce our laws?

This might be the most idiotic idea I've ever heard from the left.
Do you think police departments as they currently exist are doing a good job of serving and protecting the public? Conceptually I think everyone, including AOC and Omar, like the idea of having a governmental unit that polices society, but a lot of people/voters have had it with the current system and are going to be looking for change. I’m in that group. The police, while I admire them for many things, in their current state are obviously archaic and out of touch. Something has gone completely haywire and I think that happened long ago.

I don’t have the answers, but I believe now is the time (As many white male leaders are saying) to listen to minorities, because they’re ones IMO who are going to lead the country out of this mess. They have a perspective that mostly unexposed white males from Montana have nearly no clue about. I really don’t want to hear much from white male politicians.
Generally, yes I do think police do a good job. I refuse to let a very small minority of power- hungry bad cops define the entire police force for me.

Remember when 19 radical Muslims flew planes into the WTC and democrats were so quick to tell everyone that these people didn't represent Muslims and we shouldn't blame Islam for a few bad apples? Why isn't that same treatment given to the police force?

Are there problems to fix in the Police? Yes there are, and I'm fully on board with that.
Should we defund the whole thing, like Omar, Bernie Sanders, the mayor of LA, etc, want to do? Hell no.
I agree with your post. And the thought to defund police is one of the DUMBEST things the Dems have ever proposed. When crime is up, what do you do? You get more police to enforce the laws. You don’t disband them.

The police are not perfect, but let’s work on solving those problems before even contemplating defunding! There are clearly some bad actors in the police force and they need to be removed. The guy who assaulted George Floyd had 14+ complaints of excessive force and he remained on patrol. That is a travesty of the system.

What we really need is good local police leadership. Look at the chief of police in Flint, MI. It should not be an elected position. It should be a hired position based on experience, education, etc. The leader of the organization must implement steps and training at every level to prevent another George Floyd incident. This requires great leadership of an organization, not defunding...
And wasn't a former presidential candidate named klobachar once a prosecutor and she let that officer slide?



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