Cure worse than the problem?

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iaafan
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:14 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:38 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm
I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234
Great link, thanks.

Pretty much what I’ve said all along; that there is no way Covid would touch heart disease and cancer in regards to deaths. Nor will it next year, the year after that, or any year in my lifetime.

My only hope is that people and government would be even a quarter as passionate and selfless about fighting heart disease and cancer as they have been fighting Covid the last year. If so we could see some significant steps in finding cures.
I'm having a hard time following you. What is the significance of your perception (not that I think it matters because covid deaths, like cancer and heart disease, are at such a significantly high rate that I don't see the value in making the comparison) of Covid vs. heart/cancer? The number for Covid deaths is not for a full year, it is for calendar year 2021, Covid claimed about 500,000 lives in a one-year span, which is fairly close to cancer/heart disease, however, like I said, I don't think it really matters because they are all very high and even if Covid was double the rate of cancer/heart disease, I don't think it would diminish deaths from those diseases. There's also M.S., the flu, pneumonia, automobile deaths, depression induced suicide, etc. These are all very bad things that we'd like to eradicate and I don't see any reason to make any comparisons between them as there death numbers and effects stand on their own.

What is the significance of heart disease and cancer out-pacing Covid in coming years? That's a very confusing statement since it has been apparent that Covid would at some point become contained and we know that cancer/heart disease show strong signs of continuing on at close to their existing rates, not for a lack of effort. The American Cancer Society raises over $1 billion per year. Funds available to the National Cancer Institute totaled nearly $6 billion in 2018.

Why are you quantifying that people and the gov't are only a quarter (I know you're just throwing a pct. out there based on your perception) as passionate. It's a matter of opinion to some point, but I feel that people and the government, which is the largest single donor, seem very passionate about many diseases (See the cancer donation numbers above). Yes, Covid has been the most central of them all this past year-plus, but do you not think that is due to the newness of it and it's unknown capabilities and the lack of an existing drug to deal with it?

Additionally, Covid has had about 30 million new cases in 2020, while cancer will have 1.8 million people diagnosed in 2020. That is a major cause of concern due to lack of hospital space. The US and the world have been dealing with cancer and heart disease for decades, if not centuries, so they're set up to deal with the numbers of people that will be needing care for those. Any disease that crops up suddenly, even if there were a rapid increase in cancer or heart disease, is very difficult for the medical community to handle. They're set up to deal with knowns.
One of the strangest things about Covid is that there are people who seem to not like it, as in it isn't their favorite disease or something like that. We should all hate every disease out there. Some are more lethal than others. I'd like to see them all funded a lot and equally, but I'm not going to bash one disease, because the one I think deserves more funding isn't getting it. I'll just lobby for more funding for the one I think needs more without trying to take away from another disease. A lot of people, not saying you are iltc, seem to think Covid isn't worthy of being addressed at the level it is. Just really strange, but maybe that's just me.



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 am

One other thing that these numbers leave out is the long-term effect to one’s health after COVID. A couple of personal examples:

A close friend’s father had COVID in December (was exposed in his nursing home). The father was hospitalized for several weeks, and fortunately “recovered” and returned to his nursing home. The father continued to have breathing difficulty and caught pneumonia and passed away in April. This was not considered a COVID death because he had “recovered.”

Per a medical professional associate; a college athlete had COVID in late summer. Recovered but had lung damage from COVID. The athlete continued to not take precautions related to COVID (going to bars and parties) despite the lung damage they were still healing from. The athlete recently contracted the virus again and the damaged lung tissue was further harmed. Medical professionals do not know if her lungs will fully heal. The athlete may not be able to participate in their sport in the future.

Death isn’t the only impact to people. The long-term effects are real for those that “recover.”



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catatac
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by catatac » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:17 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 am
One other thing that these numbers leave out is the long-term effect to one’s health after COVID. A couple of personal examples:

A close friend’s father had COVID in December (was exposed in his nursing home). The father was hospitalized for several weeks, and fortunately “recovered” and returned to his nursing home. The father continued to have breathing difficulty and caught pneumonia and passed away in April. This was not considered a COVID death because he had “recovered.”

Per a medical professional associate; a college athlete had COVID in late summer. Recovered but had lung damage from COVID. The athlete continued to not take precautions related to COVID (going to bars and parties) despite the lung damage they were still healing from. The athlete recently contracted the virus again and the damaged lung tissue was further harmed. Medical professionals do not know if her lungs will fully heal. The athlete may not be able to participate in their sport in the future.

Death isn’t the only impact to people. The long-term effects are real for those that “recover.”
That is true for SOME people that recover from COVID, but that's a very small percentage. The vast majority of people that get COVID get sick like a bad cold for a few days, or perhaps don't even feel any symptoms, and then recover 100%.


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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:50 pm

catatac wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:17 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 am
One other thing that these numbers leave out is the long-term effect to one’s health after COVID. A couple of personal examples:

A close friend’s father had COVID in December (was exposed in his nursing home). The father was hospitalized for several weeks, and fortunately “recovered” and returned to his nursing home. The father continued to have breathing difficulty and caught pneumonia and passed away in April. This was not considered a COVID death because he had “recovered.”

Per a medical professional associate; a college athlete had COVID in late summer. Recovered but had lung damage from COVID. The athlete continued to not take precautions related to COVID (going to bars and parties) despite the lung damage they were still healing from. The athlete recently contracted the virus again and the damaged lung tissue was further harmed. Medical professionals do not know if her lungs will fully heal. The athlete may not be able to participate in their sport in the future.

Death isn’t the only impact to people. The long-term effects are real for those that “recover.”
That is true for SOME people that recover from COVID, but that's a very small percentage. The vast majority of people that get COVID get sick like a bad cold for a few days, or perhaps don't even feel any symptoms, and then recover 100%.
I am saying that life and death isn't the only measurement that should be used for the severity of COVID. I understand that some people don't consider COVID serious because they didn't get very ill, but others do take the effects serious and consider how it impacts their families, friends and neighbors...



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by BigBruceBaker » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:30 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:50 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:17 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 am
One other thing that these numbers leave out is the long-term effect to one’s health after COVID. A couple of personal examples:

A close friend’s father had COVID in December (was exposed in his nursing home). The father was hospitalized for several weeks, and fortunately “recovered” and returned to his nursing home. The father continued to have breathing difficulty and caught pneumonia and passed away in April. This was not considered a COVID death because he had “recovered.”

Per a medical professional associate; a college athlete had COVID in late summer. Recovered but had lung damage from COVID. The athlete continued to not take precautions related to COVID (going to bars and parties) despite the lung damage they were still healing from. The athlete recently contracted the virus again and the damaged lung tissue was further harmed. Medical professionals do not know if her lungs will fully heal. The athlete may not be able to participate in their sport in the future.

Death isn’t the only impact to people. The long-term effects are real for those that “recover.”
That is true for SOME people that recover from COVID, but that's a very small percentage. The vast majority of people that get COVID get sick like a bad cold for a few days, or perhaps don't even feel any symptoms, and then recover 100%.
I am saying that life and death isn't the only measurement that should be used for the severity of COVID. I understand that some people don't consider COVID serious because they didn't get very ill, but others do take the effects serious and consider how it impacts their families, friends and neighbors...
I'm confused. Are you invalidating the people that have had mild cases of COVID? I had COVID about a month ago, felt nasty and tired for about a day - day and a half, winded for about 3 days and have recovered fine. Am I not taking the effects serious and how it impacted those around me?

In your opinion if the COVID virus impacts 80% of people in mild or moderate ways should that be discussed hand in hand with the 20% that it does affect significantly? Should the death percentages be discussed at the same time?


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catatac
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by catatac » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:05 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:50 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:17 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 am
One other thing that these numbers leave out is the long-term effect to one’s health after COVID. A couple of personal examples:

A close friend’s father had COVID in December (was exposed in his nursing home). The father was hospitalized for several weeks, and fortunately “recovered” and returned to his nursing home. The father continued to have breathing difficulty and caught pneumonia and passed away in April. This was not considered a COVID death because he had “recovered.”

Per a medical professional associate; a college athlete had COVID in late summer. Recovered but had lung damage from COVID. The athlete continued to not take precautions related to COVID (going to bars and parties) despite the lung damage they were still healing from. The athlete recently contracted the virus again and the damaged lung tissue was further harmed. Medical professionals do not know if her lungs will fully heal. The athlete may not be able to participate in their sport in the future.

Death isn’t the only impact to people. The long-term effects are real for those that “recover.”
That is true for SOME people that recover from COVID, but that's a very small percentage. The vast majority of people that get COVID get sick like a bad cold for a few days, or perhaps don't even feel any symptoms, and then recover 100%.
I am saying that life and death isn't the only measurement that should be used for the severity of COVID. I understand that some people don't consider COVID serious because they didn't get very ill, but others do take the effects serious and consider how it impacts their families, friends and neighbors...
Right, I get that. I was simply clarifying your statement The long-term effects are real for those that "recover." because that statement by itself isn't accurate. As I pointed out, the vast majority of people the get Covid get sick for a few days and then recover 100%.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:21 pm



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BigBruceBaker
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by BigBruceBaker » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:02 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:30 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:50 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:17 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 am
One other thing that these numbers leave out is the long-term effect to one’s health after COVID. A couple of personal examples:

A close friend’s father had COVID in December (was exposed in his nursing home). The father was hospitalized for several weeks, and fortunately “recovered” and returned to his nursing home. The father continued to have breathing difficulty and caught pneumonia and passed away in April. This was not considered a COVID death because he had “recovered.”

Per a medical professional associate; a college athlete had COVID in late summer. Recovered but had lung damage from COVID. The athlete continued to not take precautions related to COVID (going to bars and parties) despite the lung damage they were still healing from. The athlete recently contracted the virus again and the damaged lung tissue was further harmed. Medical professionals do not know if her lungs will fully heal. The athlete may not be able to participate in their sport in the future.

Death isn’t the only impact to people. The long-term effects are real for those that “recover.”
That is true for SOME people that recover from COVID, but that's a very small percentage. The vast majority of people that get COVID get sick like a bad cold for a few days, or perhaps don't even feel any symptoms, and then recover 100%.
I am saying that life and death isn't the only measurement that should be used for the severity of COVID. I understand that some people don't consider COVID serious because they didn't get very ill, but others do take the effects serious and consider how it impacts their families, friends and neighbors...
I'm confused. Are you invalidating the people that have had mild cases of COVID? I had COVID about a month ago, felt nasty and tired for about a day - day and a half, winded for about 3 days and have recovered fine. Am I not taking the effects serious and how it impacted those around me?

In your opinion if the COVID virus impacts 80% of people in mild or moderate ways should that be discussed hand in hand with the 20% that it does affect significantly? Should the death percentages be discussed at the same time?
.....bump


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TomCat88
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm

Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by BigBruceBaker » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:34 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm
Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.
Just shy of 60% of the worlds population is “Asian”, I guess its your prerogative to wish death in larger amounts on Asians than other races, but I don’t share those beliefs.

To each their own.

Seems like Noah had something close to that happen.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:46 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm
Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.
Unfortunately they are seeing about 27% of patients between 18 and 39 years of age reported persistent symptoms, compared with 30% of those between 40 and 64, and 43% of those aged 65 and older. I know that many people don't take COVID very serious because it hasn't killed enough people, but the long term effects could be costly which could impact our economy (which some of those same people do care about). Hard to think there are still so many people that don’t take COVID serious.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:37 am

The Butcher wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:46 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm
Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.
Unfortunately they are seeing about 27% of patients between 18 and 39 years of age reported persistent symptoms, compared with 30% of those between 40 and 64, and 43% of those aged 65 and older. I know that many people don't take COVID very serious because it hasn't killed enough people, but the long term effects could be costly which could impact our economy (which some of those same people do care about). Hard to think there are still so many people that don’t take COVID serious.
Tomorrow will be exactly 5 months since I left work and knew I had the virus. It laid me out for a week and the breathings was the worst part. I had a headache for about a month and a half after I went back to work. But my breathing still isn't the same. I'm no longer on an inhaler, but I don't breathe right find myself gasping for air several times a day.

Will be interesting to see how long that persists, or if this is just how I'll breathe forever! :-k



iaafan
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:04 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:37 am
The Butcher wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:46 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm
Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.
Unfortunately they are seeing about 27% of patients between 18 and 39 years of age reported persistent symptoms, compared with 30% of those between 40 and 64, and 43% of those aged 65 and older. I know that many people don't take COVID very serious because it hasn't killed enough people, but the long term effects could be costly which could impact our economy (which some of those same people do care about). Hard to think there are still so many people that don’t take COVID serious.
Tomorrow will be exactly 5 months since I left work and knew I had the virus. It laid me out for a week and the breathings was the worst part. I had a headache for about a month and a half after I went back to work. But my breathing still isn't the same. I'm no longer on an inhaler, but I don't breathe right find myself gasping for air several times a day.

Will be interesting to see how long that persists, or if this is just how I'll breathe forever! :-k
Very sorry to hear that. I hope it clears up soon. Here's an article about others who are suffering in the same way.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-got-c ... 2?mod=e2tw



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:04 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:37 am
The Butcher wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:46 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm
Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.
Unfortunately they are seeing about 27% of patients between 18 and 39 years of age reported persistent symptoms, compared with 30% of those between 40 and 64, and 43% of those aged 65 and older. I know that many people don't take COVID very serious because it hasn't killed enough people, but the long term effects could be costly which could impact our economy (which some of those same people do care about). Hard to think there are still so many people that don’t take COVID serious.
Tomorrow will be exactly 5 months since I left work and knew I had the virus. It laid me out for a week and the breathings was the worst part. I had a headache for about a month and a half after I went back to work. But my breathing still isn't the same. I'm no longer on an inhaler, but I don't breathe right find myself gasping for air several times a day.

Will be interesting to see how long that persists, or if this is just how I'll breathe forever! :-k
Dang.....I have a couple friends in the same boat. Both dudes in late 30's early 40's, otherwise in great shape. I hope you're back to full strength in short order.



ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:22 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:04 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:37 am
The Butcher wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:46 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm
Personally, I’m beginning to wish this thing would just run rampant and wipe out about 75% of the world’s population (spread evenly per nation). I’m convinced there are too many people on the planet and have been for decades. I didn’t used to want it to happen this way, but I doubt we ever cull the population in a strategic way, so this works. Yes, I’m willing to be the first person to go.
Unfortunately they are seeing about 27% of patients between 18 and 39 years of age reported persistent symptoms, compared with 30% of those between 40 and 64, and 43% of those aged 65 and older. I know that many people don't take COVID very serious because it hasn't killed enough people, but the long term effects could be costly which could impact our economy (which some of those same people do care about). Hard to think there are still so many people that don’t take COVID serious.
Tomorrow will be exactly 5 months since I left work and knew I had the virus. It laid me out for a week and the breathings was the worst part. I had a headache for about a month and a half after I went back to work. But my breathing still isn't the same. I'm no longer on an inhaler, but I don't breathe right find myself gasping for air several times a day.

Will be interesting to see how long that persists, or if this is just how I'll breathe forever! :-k
Dang.....I have a couple friends in the same boat. Both dudes in late 30's early 40's, otherwise in great shape. I hope you're back to full strength in short order.
Appreciate it.

It's not terrible. But noticeable throughout the day.

I get massages every couple weeks and honestly that's when it's the most noticeable. When they're torking on my back sometimes I feel like I'm going to die. :lol:



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