Cure worse than the problem?

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iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6102
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:55 am

wapiti wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:14 am
iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am
wapiti wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.
Filters with MERV-13 or higher ratings can trap smaller particles, including viruses. Many home HVAC systems will have a MERV-8 filter installed as the default. Upgrading to a MERV-13 rated filter, or the highest-rated filter that your HVAC system fan and filter slot can accommodate, could improve the system’s efficacy in removing viruses from circulated air. Before making any changes to the air filter in an HVAC system, users should consult their HVAC manual or an HVAC professional.

By itself, using an upgraded HVAC filter is not enough to protect people from COVID-19. When used along with other best practices recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an upgraded HVAC filter can be part of a plan to protect yourself and your family.
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/what-ki ... y-covid-19

Sounds like a filter, like a mask, helps stop the spread, but doesn't eliminate the threat of spreading COVID-19. I assume it's also possible for it to stop the spread of other airborne viruses like the flu and common cold.
Sounds like a dirty filter/mask is ineffective in slowing the spread. How much wear time of a mask before it is dirty??? I would guess anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours depending on parameters. and if the wearer of the mask touches their dirty mask they will spread the virus when they touch other common touched surfaces. Thus mask wearing could be causing the virus to spread worse due to people touching their mask.
You're supposed to wash a mask after each use. Disposable masks are good for just one time. There's no consensus on how long to wear a mask. I've seen people say no longer than four hours at the long end and whenever it feels moist it should be changed out. Mostly people working in service industries have them on for the longest periods of time. The longest I've had to have one on is about an hour, but that was just once. Usually the longest I have one on is when I'm grocery shopping, which only takes about 15-20 minutes for me.

I keep two cloth masks in each vehicle and take the one I just used in and wash it, then bring another out next time I use that vehicle. I also keep a box of disposable masks in my glovebox.

Do I think everyone does this? No, and I see your concern. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from using a mask or installing a better filter. The more people do this, the better for everyone.



Cataholic
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Posts: 3641
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 am

I find it interesting that the state with one of the strictest lockdowns is dealing with a massive surge in cases.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cali-covid-surge-lockdowns



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6102
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:27 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 am
I find it interesting that the state with one of the strictest lockdowns is dealing with a massive surge in cases.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cali-covid-surge-lockdowns
Yes, California is a real tough place to analyze. Huge population densities in 4 areas. Strict lockdown. Lots of rule breaking of the lockdown. Many upset business owners. They rank well though at 40th in death/million, 34th in cases/million, but 20th in testing/million. A big surge in cases could change all of that. Interesting place to follow. Thanks for the link.



wapiti
BobcatNation Team Captain
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wapiti » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:24 am

iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:55 am
wapiti wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:14 am
iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am
wapiti wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.
Filters with MERV-13 or higher ratings can trap smaller particles, including viruses. Many home HVAC systems will have a MERV-8 filter installed as the default. Upgrading to a MERV-13 rated filter, or the highest-rated filter that your HVAC system fan and filter slot can accommodate, could improve the system’s efficacy in removing viruses from circulated air. Before making any changes to the air filter in an HVAC system, users should consult their HVAC manual or an HVAC professional.

By itself, using an upgraded HVAC filter is not enough to protect people from COVID-19. When used along with other best practices recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an upgraded HVAC filter can be part of a plan to protect yourself and your family.
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/what-ki ... y-covid-19

Sounds like a filter, like a mask, helps stop the spread, but doesn't eliminate the threat of spreading COVID-19. I assume it's also possible for it to stop the spread of other airborne viruses like the flu and common cold.
Sounds like a dirty filter/mask is ineffective in slowing the spread. How much wear time of a mask before it is dirty??? I would guess anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours depending on parameters. and if the wearer of the mask touches their dirty mask they will spread the virus when they touch other common touched surfaces. Thus mask wearing could be causing the virus to spread worse due to people touching their mask.
You're supposed to wash a mask after each use. Disposable masks are good for just one time. There's no consensus on how long to wear a mask. I've seen people say no longer than four hours at the long end and whenever it feels moist it should be changed out. Mostly people working in service industries have them on for the longest periods of time. The longest I've had to have one on is about an hour, but that was just once. Usually the longest I have one on is when I'm grocery shopping, which only takes about 15-20 minutes for me.

I keep two cloth masks in each vehicle and take the one I just used in and wash it, then bring another out next time I use that vehicle. I also keep a box of disposable masks in my glovebox.

Do I think everyone does this? No, and I see your concern. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from using a mask or installing a better filter. The more people do this, the better for everyone.
I heard from my wife this morning there are people who think it is safe to be in public spaces while positive for Covid as long as you are wearing a mask!!!!!! If you are sick you need to stay at home!!! The mask is giving a false sense of safety!!!

The media is giving masks the wrong priority in the list of protocols.

The first should be, if you are positive then stay home.
2nd should be keep your hands washed
3rd keep common touched surfaces sanitized
4th, do not touch your face
5th, cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze and if you used your hand see #2. (This would be the mask one.)



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wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 10495
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:44 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:14 am
11/5/2020
New Cases: 1013
New Tests: 2736
Today's positivity rate: 37%
13,261 Active cases
414 Active Hospitalizations (+7 from yesterday )
Deaths: 407 (+3)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
11/15/2020
New Cases: 1272
New Tests: 2867
Today's positivity rate: 44%
Active cases: 19,166
Active Hospitalizations: 435
Deaths: 520

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New Cases: 1500
New Tests: 10494
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 19,750
Active Hospitalizations: 456 (+11)
Deaths: 543 (+23)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/3/2020

New Cases: 899
New Tests: 5500
Today's positivity rate: 16%
Active cases: 16040
Active Hospitalizations: 474
Deaths: 722

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/9/2020

New Cases: 747
New Tests: 2590
Today's positivity rate: 29%
Active cases: 17,294
Active Hospitalizations: 490
Deaths: 771

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/15/2020

New Cases: 803
New Tests: 5680
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 8,916 (WOW!)
Active Hospitalizations: 338
Deaths: 821

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

12/28/2020

New Cases: 224
New Tests: 1899
Today's positivity rate: 12%
Active cases: 5,591
Active Hospitalizations: 213
Deaths: 927

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



User avatar
The Butcher
Member # Retired
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:51 am

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.



User avatar
wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 10495
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:57 am

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
The percentage rate fluctuates dramatically, tomorrow could be 40%, then 20's the next day.



User avatar
wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 10495
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:00 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/5/2021

New Cases: 834
New Tests: 2202
Today's positivity rate: 38%
Active cases: 4,924
Active Hospitalizations: 212 (+21)
Deaths: 1005 (+30)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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