Cure worse than the problem?

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iaafan
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:55 am

wapiti wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:14 am
iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am
wapiti wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.
Filters with MERV-13 or higher ratings can trap smaller particles, including viruses. Many home HVAC systems will have a MERV-8 filter installed as the default. Upgrading to a MERV-13 rated filter, or the highest-rated filter that your HVAC system fan and filter slot can accommodate, could improve the system’s efficacy in removing viruses from circulated air. Before making any changes to the air filter in an HVAC system, users should consult their HVAC manual or an HVAC professional.

By itself, using an upgraded HVAC filter is not enough to protect people from COVID-19. When used along with other best practices recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an upgraded HVAC filter can be part of a plan to protect yourself and your family.
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/what-ki ... y-covid-19

Sounds like a filter, like a mask, helps stop the spread, but doesn't eliminate the threat of spreading COVID-19. I assume it's also possible for it to stop the spread of other airborne viruses like the flu and common cold.
Sounds like a dirty filter/mask is ineffective in slowing the spread. How much wear time of a mask before it is dirty??? I would guess anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours depending on parameters. and if the wearer of the mask touches their dirty mask they will spread the virus when they touch other common touched surfaces. Thus mask wearing could be causing the virus to spread worse due to people touching their mask.
You're supposed to wash a mask after each use. Disposable masks are good for just one time. There's no consensus on how long to wear a mask. I've seen people say no longer than four hours at the long end and whenever it feels moist it should be changed out. Mostly people working in service industries have them on for the longest periods of time. The longest I've had to have one on is about an hour, but that was just once. Usually the longest I have one on is when I'm grocery shopping, which only takes about 15-20 minutes for me.

I keep two cloth masks in each vehicle and take the one I just used in and wash it, then bring another out next time I use that vehicle. I also keep a box of disposable masks in my glovebox.

Do I think everyone does this? No, and I see your concern. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from using a mask or installing a better filter. The more people do this, the better for everyone.



Cataholic
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 am

I find it interesting that the state with one of the strictest lockdowns is dealing with a massive surge in cases.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cali-covid-surge-lockdowns



iaafan
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:27 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 am
I find it interesting that the state with one of the strictest lockdowns is dealing with a massive surge in cases.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cali-covid-surge-lockdowns
Yes, California is a real tough place to analyze. Huge population densities in 4 areas. Strict lockdown. Lots of rule breaking of the lockdown. Many upset business owners. They rank well though at 40th in death/million, 34th in cases/million, but 20th in testing/million. A big surge in cases could change all of that. Interesting place to follow. Thanks for the link.



wapiti
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wapiti » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:24 am

iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:55 am
wapiti wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:14 am
iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am
wapiti wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.
Filters with MERV-13 or higher ratings can trap smaller particles, including viruses. Many home HVAC systems will have a MERV-8 filter installed as the default. Upgrading to a MERV-13 rated filter, or the highest-rated filter that your HVAC system fan and filter slot can accommodate, could improve the system’s efficacy in removing viruses from circulated air. Before making any changes to the air filter in an HVAC system, users should consult their HVAC manual or an HVAC professional.

By itself, using an upgraded HVAC filter is not enough to protect people from COVID-19. When used along with other best practices recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an upgraded HVAC filter can be part of a plan to protect yourself and your family.
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/what-ki ... y-covid-19

Sounds like a filter, like a mask, helps stop the spread, but doesn't eliminate the threat of spreading COVID-19. I assume it's also possible for it to stop the spread of other airborne viruses like the flu and common cold.
Sounds like a dirty filter/mask is ineffective in slowing the spread. How much wear time of a mask before it is dirty??? I would guess anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours depending on parameters. and if the wearer of the mask touches their dirty mask they will spread the virus when they touch other common touched surfaces. Thus mask wearing could be causing the virus to spread worse due to people touching their mask.
You're supposed to wash a mask after each use. Disposable masks are good for just one time. There's no consensus on how long to wear a mask. I've seen people say no longer than four hours at the long end and whenever it feels moist it should be changed out. Mostly people working in service industries have them on for the longest periods of time. The longest I've had to have one on is about an hour, but that was just once. Usually the longest I have one on is when I'm grocery shopping, which only takes about 15-20 minutes for me.

I keep two cloth masks in each vehicle and take the one I just used in and wash it, then bring another out next time I use that vehicle. I also keep a box of disposable masks in my glovebox.

Do I think everyone does this? No, and I see your concern. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from using a mask or installing a better filter. The more people do this, the better for everyone.
I heard from my wife this morning there are people who think it is safe to be in public spaces while positive for Covid as long as you are wearing a mask!!!!!! If you are sick you need to stay at home!!! The mask is giving a false sense of safety!!!

The media is giving masks the wrong priority in the list of protocols.

The first should be, if you are positive then stay home.
2nd should be keep your hands washed
3rd keep common touched surfaces sanitized
4th, do not touch your face
5th, cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze and if you used your hand see #2. (This would be the mask one.)



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:44 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:14 am
11/5/2020
New Cases: 1013
New Tests: 2736
Today's positivity rate: 37%
13,261 Active cases
414 Active Hospitalizations (+7 from yesterday )
Deaths: 407 (+3)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
11/15/2020
New Cases: 1272
New Tests: 2867
Today's positivity rate: 44%
Active cases: 19,166
Active Hospitalizations: 435
Deaths: 520

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New Cases: 1500
New Tests: 10494
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 19,750
Active Hospitalizations: 456 (+11)
Deaths: 543 (+23)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/3/2020

New Cases: 899
New Tests: 5500
Today's positivity rate: 16%
Active cases: 16040
Active Hospitalizations: 474
Deaths: 722

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/9/2020

New Cases: 747
New Tests: 2590
Today's positivity rate: 29%
Active cases: 17,294
Active Hospitalizations: 490
Deaths: 771

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/15/2020

New Cases: 803
New Tests: 5680
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 8,916 (WOW!)
Active Hospitalizations: 338
Deaths: 821

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

12/28/2020

New Cases: 224
New Tests: 1899
Today's positivity rate: 12%
Active cases: 5,591
Active Hospitalizations: 213
Deaths: 927

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:57 am

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
The percentage rate fluctuates dramatically, tomorrow could be 40%, then 20's the next day.



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:00 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/5/2021

New Cases: 834
New Tests: 2202
Today's positivity rate: 38%
Active cases: 4,924
Active Hospitalizations: 212 (+21)
Deaths: 1005 (+30)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:02 pm

Does everyone recall how medical professionals said hydroxychloroquine did NOT work to treat COVID? Yet numerous people believed a non-medically trained politician that it did work. Well the taxpayers in Oklahoma should question their elected officials on their decision making skills when it comes to their tax dollars.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... ump-report



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:06 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:00 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/5/2021

New Cases: 834
New Tests: 2202
Today's positivity rate: 38%
Active cases: 4,924
Active Hospitalizations: 212 (+21)
Deaths: 1005 (+30)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
1/28/2021

New Cases: 404
New Tests: 8592
Today's positivity rate: 4.5%
Active cases: 4,004
Active Hospitalizations: 114
Deaths: 1210



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:10 pm

The US has had the fifth worst response to the COVID pandemic in the world, a think tank has claimed.

The Lowy Institute ranked nearly 100 countries on their management of the global crisis after their hundredth confirmed case.

Top 10:
1. New Zealand
2. Vietnam
3. Taiwan
4. Thailand
5. Cyprus
6. Rwanda
7. Iceland
8. Australia
9. Latvia
10. Sri Lanka

Bottom 10:
89. Chile
90. Ukraine
91. Oman
92. Panama
93. Bolivia
94. United States
95. Iran
96. Colombia
97. Mexico
98. Brazil



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:06 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:00 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/5/2021

New Cases: 834
New Tests: 2202
Today's positivity rate: 38%
Active cases: 4,924
Active Hospitalizations: 212 (+21)
Deaths: 1005 (+30)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
1/28/2021

New Cases: 404
New Tests: 8592
Today's positivity rate: 4.5%
Active cases: 4,004
Active Hospitalizations: 114
Deaths: 1210
3/24/21

New Cases: 214
New Tests: 4427
Today's positivity rate: 4.8%
Active cases: 898
Active Hospitalizations: 59
Deaths: 1431



iaafan
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:57 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:06 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:00 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:33 am


Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/4/2021

New Cases: 288
New Tests: 15084
Today's positivity rate: 2%
Active cases: 5,056
Active Hospitalizations: 191
Deaths: 975

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Wow, 2%! That is great. SD hasn't been below 20% since the start of the pandemic. In South Dakota approximately 1 out of 585 people have died from COVID to date.
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

1/5/2021

New Cases: 834
New Tests: 2202
Today's positivity rate: 38%
Active cases: 4,924
Active Hospitalizations: 212 (+21)
Deaths: 1005 (+30)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
1/28/2021

New Cases: 404
New Tests: 8592
Today's positivity rate: 4.5%
Active cases: 4,004
Active Hospitalizations: 114
Deaths: 1210
3/24/21

New Cases: 214
New Tests: 4427
Today's positivity rate: 4.8%
Active cases: 898
Active Hospitalizations: 59
Deaths: 1431
=D^



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm

I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234



ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm
I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234
Great link, thanks.

Pretty much what I’ve said all along; that there is no way Covid would touch heart disease and cancer in regards to deaths. Nor will it next year, the year after that, or any year in my lifetime.

My only hope is that people and government would be even a quarter as passionate and selfless about fighting heart disease and cancer as they have been fighting Covid the last year. If so we could see some significant steps in finding cures.



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:59 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm
I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234
Great link, thanks.

Pretty much what I’ve said all along; that there is no way Covid would touch heart disease and cancer in regards to deaths. Nor will it next year, the year after that, or any year in my lifetime.

My only hope is that people and government would be even a quarter as passionate and selfless about fighting heart disease and cancer as they have been fighting Covid the last year. If so we could see some significant steps in finding cures.
I remember one of the questions with the data was whether or not COVID has increased total deaths in the US. I think there was a narrative going around that total death numbers would be the same, but more would be classified as COVID in order to get the insurance reimbursement. That narrative looks to be debunked in this data, as total death numbers are significantly higher.

The other narrative is that the suicide numbers have significantly increased during COVID. This study indicates that suicide rates actually when down during 2020, which surprised the heck out of me.

All in all, it's interesting data, and people will massage it to fit whichever narrative they prefer.
Last edited by wbtfg on Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by catatac » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:17 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:59 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm
I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234
Great link, thanks.

Pretty much what I’ve said all along; that there is no way Covid would touch heart disease and cancer in regards to deaths. Nor will it next year, the year after that, or any year in my lifetime.

My only hope is that people and government would be even a quarter as passionate and selfless about fighting heart disease and cancer as they have been fighting Covid the last year. If so we could see some significant steps in finding cures.
I remember one of the questions with the data was whether or not COVID has increased the total deatth in the US. I think there was a narrative going around that death numbers would be the same, but more would be classified as COVID in order to get the insurance reimbursement. That narrative looks to be debunked in this data, as total death numbers are significantly higher.

The other narrative is that the suicide numbers have significantly increased during COVID. This study indicates that suicide rates actually when down during 2020, which surprised the heck out of me.

All in all, it's interesting data, and people will massage it to fit whichever narrative they prefer.
Thanks for sharing. I was one in the camp thinking that the total # of deaths in 2020 was not going to be significantly out of line with what was expected, had Covid not happened. If this data is accurate, then I'll admit I misjudged some of this. I know for a fact there are a certain # of deaths being attributed to Covid for people that were on their deathbed anyway (rightly so, because in the end for a lot of these older people, Covid actually is the thing that did them in). However, from this data it looks like probably weren't as many folks falling into this category than what I thoughts there would be.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by CatBot » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:05 pm

catatac wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:59 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm
I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234
Great link, thanks.

Pretty much what I’ve said all along; that there is no way Covid would touch heart disease and cancer in regards to deaths. Nor will it next year, the year after that, or any year in my lifetime.

My only hope is that people and government would be even a quarter as passionate and selfless about fighting heart disease and cancer as they have been fighting Covid the last year. If so we could see some significant steps in finding cures.
I remember one of the questions with the data was whether or not COVID has increased the total deatth in the US. I think there was a narrative going around that death numbers would be the same, but more would be classified as COVID in order to get the insurance reimbursement. That narrative looks to be debunked in this data, as total death numbers are significantly higher.

The other narrative is that the suicide numbers have significantly increased during COVID. This study indicates that suicide rates actually when down during 2020, which surprised the heck out of me.

All in all, it's interesting data, and people will massage it to fit whichever narrative they prefer.
Thanks for sharing. I was one in the camp thinking that the total # of deaths in 2020 was not going to be significantly out of line with what was expected, had Covid not happened. If this data is accurate, then I'll admit I misjudged some of this. I know for a fact there are a certain # of deaths being attributed to Covid for people that were on their deathbed anyway (rightly so, because in the end for a lot of these older people, Covid actually is the thing that did them in). However, from this data it looks like probably weren't as many folks falling into this category than what I thoughts there would be.
I'm not surprised by the data. Personally I was keeping the closest eye on hospitalization rates and a way to filter out the political bias associated with the reporting. This metric would definitely lead the observer to the conclusion that this was a real and worrisome virus worthy of serious consideration.

If we could go back in time and do this all over, I'm certain there would be many dead people still alive today and doing well. The overt sensationalism from the left media combined with the diminishing message from the President and right media, all during the unfortunate timing of an election year, created the recipe for disaster.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:36 pm

Is that data for CY ‘20?


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:38 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm
I don’t remember which thread the discussion was in, so just dropping here

@ilovethecats, I think this is the mortality data you’ve been seeking. I haven’t vetted the source, but assume it’s good info.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2778234
Great link, thanks.

Pretty much what I’ve said all along; that there is no way Covid would touch heart disease and cancer in regards to deaths. Nor will it next year, the year after that, or any year in my lifetime.

My only hope is that people and government would be even a quarter as passionate and selfless about fighting heart disease and cancer as they have been fighting Covid the last year. If so we could see some significant steps in finding cures.
I'm having a hard time following you. What is the significance of your perception (not that I think it matters because covid deaths, like cancer and heart disease, are at such a significantly high rate that I don't see the value in making the comparison) of Covid vs. heart/cancer? The number for Covid deaths is not for a full year, it is for calendar year 2021, Covid claimed about 500,000 lives in a one-year span, which is fairly close to cancer/heart disease, however, like I said, I don't think it really matters because they are all very high and even if Covid was double the rate of cancer/heart disease, I don't think it would diminish deaths from those diseases. There's also M.S., the flu, pneumonia, automobile deaths, depression induced suicide, etc. These are all very bad things that we'd like to eradicate and I don't see any reason to make any comparisons between them as there death numbers and effects stand on their own.

What is the significance of heart disease and cancer out-pacing Covid in coming years? That's a very confusing statement since it has been apparent that Covid would at some point become contained and we know that cancer/heart disease show strong signs of continuing on at close to their existing rates, not for a lack of effort. The American Cancer Society raises over $1 billion per year. Funds available to the National Cancer Institute totaled nearly $6 billion in 2018.

Why are you quantifying that people and the gov't are only a quarter (I know you're just throwing a pct. out there based on your perception) as passionate. It's a matter of opinion to some point, but I feel that people and the government, which is the largest single donor, seem very passionate about many diseases (See the cancer donation numbers above). Yes, Covid has been the most central of them all this past year-plus, but do you not think that is due to the newness of it and it's unknown capabilities and the lack of an existing drug to deal with it?

Additionally, Covid has had about 30 million new cases in 2020, while cancer will have 1.8 million people diagnosed in 2020. That is a major cause of concern due to lack of hospital space. The US and the world have been dealing with cancer and heart disease for decades, if not centuries, so they're set up to deal with the numbers of people that will be needing care for those. Any disease that crops up suddenly, even if there were a rapid increase in cancer or heart disease, is very difficult for the medical community to handle. They're set up to deal with knowns.


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