Cure worse than the problem?

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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:14 am
11/5/2020
New Cases: 1013
New Tests: 2736
Today's positivity rate: 37%
13,261 Active cases
414 Active Hospitalizations (+7 from yesterday )
Deaths: 407 (+3)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
11/15/2020
New Cases: 1272
New Tests: 2867
Today's positivity rate: 44%
Active cases: 19,166
Active Hospitalizations: 435
Deaths: 520

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New Cases: 1500
New Tests: 10494
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 19,750
Active Hospitalizations: 456 (+11)
Deaths: 543 (+23)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/3/2020

New Cases: 899
New Tests: 5500
Today's positivity rate: 16%
Active cases: 16040
Active Hospitalizations: 474
Deaths: 722

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/9/2020

New Cases: 747
New Tests: 2590
Today's positivity rate: 29%
Active cases: 17,294
Active Hospitalizations: 490
Deaths: 771

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:28 pm




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catatac
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by catatac » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:44 pm

I was thinking about starting a new thread with this but figured it might fit into this "Cure worse than problem" thread. Reading this morning about the vaccine... see below. Man, I don't know about this one and who should sign up to get this. I would say get it to the people that are at highest risk of getting seriously sick from this thing... but not sure if healthy people should get it? I have Covid right now and even with myself getting a bit sicker than a lot of people I know that had it, the known side effects that are probably going to happen with the vast majority of people that get the vaccine, that sounds about like the experience with the virus itself. Thoughts?

"Most people who get a COVID-19 vaccine will endure side effects, particularly after a second dose. All three candidate vaccines reported mild or moderate side effects, mostly pain at the injection site, fatigue, and aching muscles and joints for a day or two.

If someone is going to have a bad reaction to a vaccine, it is likely to occur in the first six weeks after vaccination, according to medical experts. But experts still don’t know the long-term effects of the vaccines and won’t know until after the trials are completed and researchers monitor participants in the real world for years after."


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:07 pm

catatac wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:44 pm
I was thinking about starting a new thread with this but figured it might fit into this "Cure worse than problem" thread. Reading this morning about the vaccine... see below. Man, I don't know about this one and who should sign up to get this. I would say get it to the people that are at highest risk of getting seriously sick from this thing... but not sure if healthy people should get it? I have Covid right now and even with myself getting a bit sicker than a lot of people I know that had it, the known side effects that are probably going to happen with the vast majority of people that get the vaccine, that sounds about like the experience with the virus itself. Thoughts?

"Most people who get a COVID-19 vaccine will endure side effects, particularly after a second dose. All three candidate vaccines reported mild or moderate side effects, mostly pain at the injection site, fatigue, and aching muscles and joints for a day or two.

If someone is going to have a bad reaction to a vaccine, it is likely to occur in the first six weeks after vaccination, according to medical experts. But experts still don’t know the long-term effects of the vaccines and won’t know until after the trials are completed and researchers monitor participants in the real world for years after."
But they are unsure how long the antibodies from a recovered person last. They are now finding people who have tested positive for COVID a second time (there is discussion if perhaps they never fully recovered). Despite the unknowns, survivors may be advised to get vaccinated anyway because of the “severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that re-infection with COVID-19 is possible." There are also doctors suggesting that you could actually get an even better immune response by boosting whatever immunity you had from the first infection by a vaccine.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by RickRund » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:29 pm

catatac wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:44 pm
I was thinking about starting a new thread with this but figured it might fit into this "Cure worse than problem" thread. Reading this morning about the vaccine... see below. Man, I don't know about this one and who should sign up to get this. I would say get it to the people that are at highest risk of getting seriously sick from this thing... but not sure if healthy people should get it? I have Covid right now and even with myself getting a bit sicker than a lot of people I know that had it, the known side effects that are probably going to happen with the vast majority of people that get the vaccine, that sounds about like the experience with the virus itself. Thoughts?

"Most people who get a COVID-19 vaccine will endure side effects, particularly after a second dose. All three candidate vaccines reported mild or moderate side effects, mostly pain at the injection site, fatigue, and aching muscles and joints for a day or two.

If someone is going to have a bad reaction to a vaccine, it is likely to occur in the first six weeks after vaccination, according to medical experts. But experts still don’t know the long-term effects of the vaccines and won’t know until after the trials are completed and researchers monitor participants in the real world for years after."
Patti and I both had the china virus. Mine lasted about 10-11 days. At no time was I ever as sick as I remember being with the flu but it has been a long time ago. Never really felt bad just did not feel good. Patti's bout was less severe as mine and lasted maybe 6 days. My worst symptom was no taste. Not worth it to us to get the vaccine. Never had a flu vaccine and may have had the flu twice.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:13 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:07 pm
catatac wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:44 pm
I was thinking about starting a new thread with this but figured it might fit into this "Cure worse than problem" thread. Reading this morning about the vaccine... see below. Man, I don't know about this one and who should sign up to get this. I would say get it to the people that are at highest risk of getting seriously sick from this thing... but not sure if healthy people should get it? I have Covid right now and even with myself getting a bit sicker than a lot of people I know that had it, the known side effects that are probably going to happen with the vast majority of people that get the vaccine, that sounds about like the experience with the virus itself. Thoughts?

"Most people who get a COVID-19 vaccine will endure side effects, particularly after a second dose. All three candidate vaccines reported mild or moderate side effects, mostly pain at the injection site, fatigue, and aching muscles and joints for a day or two.

If someone is going to have a bad reaction to a vaccine, it is likely to occur in the first six weeks after vaccination, according to medical experts. But experts still don’t know the long-term effects of the vaccines and won’t know until after the trials are completed and researchers monitor participants in the real world for years after."
But they are unsure how long the antibodies from a recovered person last. They are now finding people who have tested positive for COVID a second time (there is discussion if perhaps they never fully recovered). Despite the unknowns, survivors may be advised to get vaccinated anyway because of the “severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that re-infection with COVID-19 is possible." There are also doctors suggesting that you could actually get an even better immune response by boosting whatever immunity you had from the first infection by a vaccine.
It's an absolute no-brainer to me, but if other people don't want their shot then my family and friends will get theirs that much sooner. I don't like the thought of unimmunized people prolonging this any longer than need be, but they're free to not get the shot.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am

iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:19 am

I think it will work itself out. Like everything, opinions about the vaccine seem to be 50-50. You have the extremes where people won't get it because they think they're getting chipped. You have those that think everyone MUST get it and sake of humanity relies on it. Then you have some that really don't want it and probably won't get it. The guys like me that will be fine getting it if it means we can get back to living and my kids education won't be absolutely garbage. ( To no fault of the teachers)

I think there are enough people planning on getting it no matter what, despite so many unknowns, that we'll have enough of our population covered.

Really looking forward to the vaccine back and forth being the end all be all like the mask back and forth is the end all be all now!



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am

The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am

Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:40 pm

https://www.lucianne.com/2020/12/14/ame ... 50037.html

Surprising?
The American Medical Association (AMA), in a surprising move, has officially rescinded a previous statement against the use of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in the treatment of COVID-19 patients, giving physicians the okay to return to utilizing the medication at their discretion. Previously, the AMA had issued a statement in March that was highly critical of HCQ in regards to its use as a proposed treatment by some physicians in the early stages of COVID-19. In addition to discouraging doctors from ordering the medication in bulk for “off-label” use(Snip) they also claimed that there was no proof that it was effective in treating COVID, and that its use could be harmful


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:58 pm

Rich K wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:40 pm
https://www.lucianne.com/2020/12/14/ame ... 50037.html

Surprising?
The American Medical Association (AMA), in a surprising move, has officially rescinded a previous statement against the use of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in the treatment of COVID-19 patients, giving physicians the okay to return to utilizing the medication at their discretion. Previously, the AMA had issued a statement in March that was highly critical of HCQ in regards to its use as a proposed treatment by some physicians in the early stages of COVID-19. In addition to discouraging doctors from ordering the medication in bulk for “off-label” use(Snip) they also claimed that there was no proof that it was effective in treating COVID, and that its use could be harmful
Just guessing that Dr. Simone Gold is involved.



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:14 am
11/5/2020
New Cases: 1013
New Tests: 2736
Today's positivity rate: 37%
13,261 Active cases
414 Active Hospitalizations (+7 from yesterday )
Deaths: 407 (+3)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
11/15/2020
New Cases: 1272
New Tests: 2867
Today's positivity rate: 44%
Active cases: 19,166
Active Hospitalizations: 435
Deaths: 520

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New Cases: 1500
New Tests: 10494
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 19,750
Active Hospitalizations: 456 (+11)
Deaths: 543 (+23)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/3/2020

New Cases: 899
New Tests: 5500
Today's positivity rate: 16%
Active cases: 16040
Active Hospitalizations: 474
Deaths: 722

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/9/2020

New Cases: 747
New Tests: 2590
Today's positivity rate: 29%
Active cases: 17,294
Active Hospitalizations: 490
Deaths: 771

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/15/2020

New Cases: 803
New Tests: 5680
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 8,916 (WOW!)
Active Hospitalizations: 338
Deaths: 821

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



TomCat88
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:41 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:14 am
11/5/2020
New Cases: 1013
New Tests: 2736
Today's positivity rate: 37%
13,261 Active cases
414 Active Hospitalizations (+7 from yesterday )
Deaths: 407 (+3)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
11/15/2020
New Cases: 1272
New Tests: 2867
Today's positivity rate: 44%
Active cases: 19,166
Active Hospitalizations: 435
Deaths: 520

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New Cases: 1500
New Tests: 10494
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 19,750
Active Hospitalizations: 456 (+11)
Deaths: 543 (+23)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/3/2020

New Cases: 899
New Tests: 5500
Today's positivity rate: 16%
Active cases: 16040
Active Hospitalizations: 474
Deaths: 722

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/9/2020

New Cases: 747
New Tests: 2590
Today's positivity rate: 29%
Active cases: 17,294
Active Hospitalizations: 490
Deaths: 771

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/15/2020

New Cases: 803
New Tests: 5680
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 8,916 (WOW!)
Active Hospitalizations: 338
Deaths: 821

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New cases might be a Wow! too. The system was down Monday so 803 for two days would be a significant drop.


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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:44 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:14 am
11/5/2020
New Cases: 1013
New Tests: 2736
Today's positivity rate: 37%
13,261 Active cases
414 Active Hospitalizations (+7 from yesterday )
Deaths: 407 (+3)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
11/15/2020
New Cases: 1272
New Tests: 2867
Today's positivity rate: 44%
Active cases: 19,166
Active Hospitalizations: 435
Deaths: 520

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
New Cases: 1500
New Tests: 10494
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 19,750
Active Hospitalizations: 456 (+11)
Deaths: 543 (+23)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/3/2020

New Cases: 899
New Tests: 5500
Today's positivity rate: 16%
Active cases: 16040
Active Hospitalizations: 474
Deaths: 722

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/9/2020

New Cases: 747
New Tests: 2590
Today's positivity rate: 29%
Active cases: 17,294
Active Hospitalizations: 490
Deaths: 771

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
12/15/2020

New Cases: 803
New Tests: 5680
Today's positivity rate: 14%
Active cases: 8,916 (WOW!)
Active Hospitalizations: 338
Deaths: 821

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

12/28/2020

New Cases: 224
New Tests: 1899
Today's positivity rate: 12%
Active cases: 5,591
Active Hospitalizations: 213
Deaths: 927

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:19 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:44 pm

Numbers looking much more manageable over the past few weeks.

12/28/2020

New Cases: 224
New Tests: 1899
Today's positivity rate: 12%
Active cases: 5,591
Active Hospitalizations: 213
Deaths: 927

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
Yes, hopefully that trend continues. I think it's getting a boost around the holiday and weekend the past few days. Lewis and Clark, and Jefferson counties are a couple of the worst per capita in the state. Hopefully Covid is just making its way through and out of this area.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wapiti » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am

wapiti wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.
Filters with MERV-13 or higher ratings can trap smaller particles, including viruses. Many home HVAC systems will have a MERV-8 filter installed as the default. Upgrading to a MERV-13 rated filter, or the highest-rated filter that your HVAC system fan and filter slot can accommodate, could improve the system’s efficacy in removing viruses from circulated air. Before making any changes to the air filter in an HVAC system, users should consult their HVAC manual or an HVAC professional.

By itself, using an upgraded HVAC filter is not enough to protect people from COVID-19. When used along with other best practices recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an upgraded HVAC filter can be part of a plan to protect yourself and your family.
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/what-ki ... y-covid-19

Sounds like a filter, like a mask, helps stop the spread, but doesn't eliminate the threat of spreading COVID-19. I assume it's also possible for it to stop the spread of other airborne viruses like the flu and common cold.



wapiti
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wapiti » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:14 am

iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 am
wapiti wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:40 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am
The Butcher wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:44 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:29 pm
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-covid-19

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors
Poor HVAC is a huge issue. One of the first measures the CDC came out with was increased air exchange, but aging facilities don't have the ability in many cases. Old schools and places of worship are the facilities that worry me the most.
I talked to a doctor yesterday who actually had Covid. She believes that once it gets into HVAC systems, it is virtually impossible to stop the spread. She is also a strict mask wearer and still contracted the disease.
Just a reminder, the primary job of a mask isn't to protect the person wearing it.
The filter on the HVAC did not protect other people either.
Filters with MERV-13 or higher ratings can trap smaller particles, including viruses. Many home HVAC systems will have a MERV-8 filter installed as the default. Upgrading to a MERV-13 rated filter, or the highest-rated filter that your HVAC system fan and filter slot can accommodate, could improve the system’s efficacy in removing viruses from circulated air. Before making any changes to the air filter in an HVAC system, users should consult their HVAC manual or an HVAC professional.

By itself, using an upgraded HVAC filter is not enough to protect people from COVID-19. When used along with other best practices recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an upgraded HVAC filter can be part of a plan to protect yourself and your family.
https://www.epa.gov/coronavirus/what-ki ... y-covid-19

Sounds like a filter, like a mask, helps stop the spread, but doesn't eliminate the threat of spreading COVID-19. I assume it's also possible for it to stop the spread of other airborne viruses like the flu and common cold.
Sounds like a dirty filter/mask is ineffective in slowing the spread. How much wear time of a mask before it is dirty??? I would guess anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours depending on parameters. and if the wearer of the mask touches their dirty mask they will spread the virus when they touch other common touched surfaces. Thus mask wearing could be causing the virus to spread worse due to people touching their mask.



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