Cure worse than the problem?

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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:49 am

The Governor of South Dakota has refused to offer any leadership during COVID, and now hospitalization rates are closing in on New York rates in April.
The Governor was recently at a 3M expansion ribbon cutting ceremony. Other elected officials in attendance wore a mask, while the Governor refused to wear one. She was not allowed to tour the plant because she wouldn't wear a mask. The 3M expansion is to increase capacity to make N95 masks.





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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by grizgirl » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:01 am

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:49 am
The Governor of South Dakota has refused to offer any leadership during COVID, and now hospitalization rates are closing in on New York rates in April.
The Governor was recently at a 3M expansion ribbon cutting ceremony. Other elected officials in attendance wore a mask, while the Governor refused to wear one. She was not allowed to tour the plant because she wouldn't wear a mask. The 3M expansion is to increase capacity to make N95 masks.




WOW!! That's unbelievable.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by catatac » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 am

Isn't it possible we're seeing spikes now in the less populated states... just because of that? Lag time for when big city population centers have the outbreaks versus more rural area outbreaks?


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:18 am

catatac wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 am
Isn't it possible we're seeing spikes now in the less populated states... just because of that? Lag time for when big city population centers have the outbreaks versus more rural area outbreaks?
If the same efforts were in place in rural areas as urban areas are taking NOW (i.e. contact tracing, mask mandates, limited gathering sizes, etc.) I could see that theory being plausible. However, in South Dakota and North Dakota there has been little to no action taken and now the numbers per capita are getting worse and worse. The Dakotas were given a road map of actions steps to avoid the failures in NY and NJ, but made the decision to do nothing and now are hot zones for COVID.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:36 am

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:18 am
catatac wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 am
Isn't it possible we're seeing spikes now in the less populated states... just because of that? Lag time for when big city population centers have the outbreaks versus more rural area outbreaks?
If the same efforts were in place in rural areas as urban areas are taking NOW (i.e. contact tracing, mask mandates, limited gathering sizes, etc.) I could see that theory being plausible. However, in South Dakota and North Dakota there has been little to no action taken and now the numbers per capita are getting worse and worse. The Dakotas were given a road map of actions steps to avoid the failures in NY and NJ, but made the decision to do nothing and now are hot zones for COVID.
Per the presidential election 16 of the top 18 states in cases per million are red states; 15 of the bottom 17 states in cases per million are blue states.

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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:11 pm

Just a sign of what we can expect from the liberal left Biden administration.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... stribution
Oncologist Dr. Zeke Emanuel, one of 10 advisory board members named to Democratic President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus task force, has pushed the U.S. and other countries to not hoard a coronavirus vaccine.

Emanuel, who served as a key architect of the Affordable Care Act under the Obama administration, co-authored a paper in September in which he encouraged officials to follow the "Fair Priority Model," which calls for a "fair international distribution of vaccine," rather than what he and his co-authors characterized as "vaccine nationalism."



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by profisme » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:36 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:11 pm
Just a sign of what we can expect from the liberal left Biden administration.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... stribution
Oncologist Dr. Zeke Emanuel, one of 10 advisory board members named to Democratic President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus task force, has pushed the U.S. and other countries to not hoard a coronavirus vaccine.

Emanuel, who served as a key architect of the Affordable Care Act under the Obama administration, co-authored a paper in September in which he encouraged officials to follow the "Fair Priority Model," which calls for a "fair international distribution of vaccine," rather than what he and his co-authors characterized as "vaccine nationalism."
I don't see the hoarding of a vaccine by a first world country as a good thing when countries around the world are also suffering. Many who have more difficult access to proper healthcare.

I see this potential appointment as a good thing, not a bad thing.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:06 pm

profisme wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:36 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:11 pm
Just a sign of what we can expect from the liberal left Biden administration.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... stribution
Oncologist Dr. Zeke Emanuel, one of 10 advisory board members named to Democratic President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus task force, has pushed the U.S. and other countries to not hoard a coronavirus vaccine.

Emanuel, who served as a key architect of the Affordable Care Act under the Obama administration, co-authored a paper in September in which he encouraged officials to follow the "Fair Priority Model," which calls for a "fair international distribution of vaccine," rather than what he and his co-authors characterized as "vaccine nationalism."
I don't see the hoarding of a vaccine by a first world country as a good thing when countries around the world are also suffering. Many who have more difficult access to proper healthcare.

I see this potential appointment as a good thing, not a bad thing.
Doubt I am in the minority, but I think we should get things fixed in our country before addressing others needs. Not trying to be harsh, but we have invested a lot of resources into getting this done and I am more concerned about addressing the needs of my loved ones right now. I am willing to skip the vaccine for others who are at greater risk, but let’s focus on getting our country back on our feet first.

I am not so sure about the appointment. This is the same guy who felt living beyond 75 is not appealing. Doesn’t Biden turn 78 this month?

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-covi ... 6208?amp=1



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by profisme » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:28 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:06 pm
profisme wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:36 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:11 pm
Just a sign of what we can expect from the liberal left Biden administration.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... stribution
Oncologist Dr. Zeke Emanuel, one of 10 advisory board members named to Democratic President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus task force, has pushed the U.S. and other countries to not hoard a coronavirus vaccine.

Emanuel, who served as a key architect of the Affordable Care Act under the Obama administration, co-authored a paper in September in which he encouraged officials to follow the "Fair Priority Model," which calls for a "fair international distribution of vaccine," rather than what he and his co-authors characterized as "vaccine nationalism."
I don't see the hoarding of a vaccine by a first world country as a good thing when countries around the world are also suffering. Many who have more difficult access to proper healthcare.

I see this potential appointment as a good thing, not a bad thing.
Doubt I am in the minority, but I think we should get things fixed in our country before addressing others needs. Not trying to be harsh, but we have invested a lot of resources into getting this done and I am more concerned about addressing the needs of my loved ones right now. I am willing to skip the vaccine for others who are at greater risk, but let’s focus on getting our country back on our feet first.

I am not so sure about the appointment. This is the same guy who felt living beyond 75 is not appealing. Doesn’t Biden turn 78 this month?

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-covi ... 6208?amp=1
My point, more succinctly, is that if you use the mantra of America First, you easily are able to fall into an isolationist ideology. That has proven to be problematic and short-sighted historically.

Making this an us vs. them situation is foolhardy and can only create more division and problems in the future.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:05 am

profisme wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:28 pm

My point, more succinctly, is that if you use the mantra of America First, you easily are able to fall into an isolationist ideology. That has proven to be problematic and short-sighted historically.

Making this an us vs. them situation is foolhardy and can only create more division and problems in the future.
Well put.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:13 am

profisme wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:28 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:06 pm
profisme wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:36 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:11 pm
Just a sign of what we can expect from the liberal left Biden administration.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... stribution
Oncologist Dr. Zeke Emanuel, one of 10 advisory board members named to Democratic President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus task force, has pushed the U.S. and other countries to not hoard a coronavirus vaccine.

Emanuel, who served as a key architect of the Affordable Care Act under the Obama administration, co-authored a paper in September in which he encouraged officials to follow the "Fair Priority Model," which calls for a "fair international distribution of vaccine," rather than what he and his co-authors characterized as "vaccine nationalism."
I don't see the hoarding of a vaccine by a first world country as a good thing when countries around the world are also suffering. Many who have more difficult access to proper healthcare.

I see this potential appointment as a good thing, not a bad thing.
Doubt I am in the minority, but I think we should get things fixed in our country before addressing others needs. Not trying to be harsh, but we have invested a lot of resources into getting this done and I am more concerned about addressing the needs of my loved ones right now. I am willing to skip the vaccine for others who are at greater risk, but let’s focus on getting our country back on our feet first.

I am not so sure about the appointment. This is the same guy who felt living beyond 75 is not appealing. Doesn’t Biden turn 78 this month?

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-covi ... 6208?amp=1
My point, more succinctly, is that if you use the mantra of America First, you easily are able to fall into an isolationist ideology. That has proven to be problematic and short-sighted historically.

Making this an us vs. them situation is foolhardy and can only create more division and problems in the future.
Is there another country that does more for the world than the US? It would be hard to imagine an us vs. them situation.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:16 pm

profisme wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:36 pm


I don't see the hoarding of a vaccine by a first world country as a good thing when countries around the world are also suffering. Many who have more difficult access to proper healthcare.

I see this potential appointment as a good thing, not a bad thing.
Hoarding would be an atrocity. Every single person does not need to be vaccinated before sharing with needy countries.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:51 pm

Hoarding of a drug created in the Good Old USA would create quite a moral dilemma. Access to a potentially life saving drug should be administered with tact, morality, love, compassion, and financial prudence. Quite the job of any person.

The obvious choice for this job is none other than Hunter Biden, he's incredibly experienced at selling access.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by profisme » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:47 pm

Rich K wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:51 pm
Hoarding of a drug created in the Good Old USA would create quite a moral dilemma. Access to a potentially life saving drug should be administered with tact, morality, love, compassion, and financial prudence. Quite the job of any person.

The obvious choice for this job is none other than Hunter Biden, he's incredibly experienced at selling access.
Just because a drug is developed in the United States does not mean that it should solely or primarily benefit just the US.

"When Jonas Salk, a scientist at the University of Pittsburgh, found it and developed the first polio vaccine in 1952, he did not patent the lifesaving treatment. "There is no patent," Salk told the broadcaster Edward R. Murrow: "Could you patent the sun?"

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/864893 ... pittsburgh


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by LCH » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:52 pm

The Pfizer/ BioNTech drug was not developed exclusively in the USA. Pfizer formed a partnership with BioNtech in March and provided the funding for development of the vaccine. The Trump administration provided no development funding but did commit to purchasing 100 million doses of a successful vaccine.

BioNtech is a German company set up by a Turkish/German research couple in Mainz Germany in 2008. They are mainly responsible for the vaccine's development.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:46 pm

LCH wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:52 pm
The Pfizer/ BioNTech drug was not developed exclusively in the USA. Pfizer formed a partnership with BioNtech in March and provided the funding for development of the vaccine. The Trump administration provided no development funding but did commit to purchasing 100 million doses of a successful vaccine.

BioNtech is a German company set up by a Turkish/German research couple in Mainz Germany in 2008. They are mainly responsible for the vaccine's development.
To piggy back onto this, many of the volunteer test subjects were from Europe. Specifically Germany.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:51 pm

This discussion is baffling to me. Liberals have been saying that Trump has not done enough to protect Americans. Now, those same people are saying we need to make sure that we share it - possibly to the detriment of America...



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by LCH » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:00 pm

The only thing Trump himself could have done to protect Americans he refused to do or advocate for, wear masks and social distance. In fact he went out of his way to ridicule those measures.

Since it is likely that 40% or more Americans will refuse the vaccine anyway, which baffles the mind, the rest of the more rational world may as well use it.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:29 pm

Also, I believe the moderna vaccine will be reporting their clinical results in the near future. I believe this was developed and tested 100% in the US.

Hopefully everyone will be vaccinated by early summer.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:24 pm




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