Cure worse than the problem?

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Cataholic
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:28 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:04 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am
Well, the Administration has made it official that they have no interest in trying to stop the spread of COVID. This is pure insanity. A complete disregard to the health of Americans.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/politics ... index.html
How in the world do you come to that conclusion? Here is Meadows comment:
"We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas," Meadows told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."
Isn’t he saying they are focused on treatments and cures to mitigate Covid. That seems pretty sound.

Aren’t you part of the crowd that criticized this administration and was touting Europe as a great example of how to handle Covid? It seems they are going through a devastating second wave and with their economy struggling and they are implementing shutdowns again.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1244709
France registered a record 52,010 new confirmed coronavirus infections over the past 24 hours and Spain declared a new state of emergency to try and curb spiking Covid-19 numbers as Europe is gripped by a second wave of the pandemic.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:59 pm
One issue we’re currently having, from my vantage point is people’s willingness to get tested. Being responsible and do what you can for others is fine and great. But when you are sacrificing your own well being for others it’s a slippery slope.

This virus, like just about everything else in life, boils down to social status. If I’m a doctor or lawyer or musician or athlete, or anyone with wealth; it’s EASY to be selfless and look out for others and quarantine for weeks and months. But for regular people, not working for 2 weeks isn’t an option. Even negative testing requires quarantine in many situations which people simply can’t afford.

You know we have people all over that feel sick but are just gonna work through it. Or people who were in close contact with a positive case but they won’t get tested. And I don’t know how we can blame them or label them selfish. The simple fact is more people than not can’t afford to just not work for a couple weeks. And it’s not a one time thing. I have an employee who’s been in close contact with a positive three times. He’s taken three Covid tests. Three times he tested negative. (Once he tested positive but days later his results said it was a false positive) And three separate times he had to miss work for nearly two weeks. He’s a college kid so still has support from his folks. Most don’t have that.

If they really wanted to slow the spread, they should have did a lot more than a tiny $1200 “stimulus” 6 months ago. If not, you just have to accept the fact that many people are going to choose to work and live their lives than risk being out of work and not paying rent or bills.
Yes, another stimulus package would really help everyone directly and indirectly.
Yes and I don’t think that will even be enough at this time. More and more people are just going to stop getting tested. For most people it’s not worth the risk to their well being for a virus that has very little chance of effecting them personally. I think this will be a big driving force in the virus spreading. At least based on what I’ve seen and people who I’ve talked to.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by BigBruceBaker » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:23 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:59 pm
One issue we’re currently having, from my vantage point is people’s willingness to get tested. Being responsible and do what you can for others is fine and great. But when you are sacrificing your own well being for others it’s a slippery slope.

This virus, like just about everything else in life, boils down to social status. If I’m a doctor or lawyer or musician or athlete, or anyone with wealth; it’s EASY to be selfless and look out for others and quarantine for weeks and months. But for regular people, not working for 2 weeks isn’t an option. Even negative testing requires quarantine in many situations which people simply can’t afford.

You know we have people all over that feel sick but are just gonna work through it. Or people who were in close contact with a positive case but they won’t get tested. And I don’t know how we can blame them or label them selfish. The simple fact is more people than not can’t afford to just not work for a couple weeks. And it’s not a one time thing. I have an employee who’s been in close contact with a positive three times. He’s taken three Covid tests. Three times he tested negative. (Once he tested positive but days later his results said it was a false positive) And three separate times he had to miss work for nearly two weeks. He’s a college kid so still has support from his folks. Most don’t have that.

If they really wanted to slow the spread, they should have did a lot more than a tiny $1200 “stimulus” 6 months ago. If not, you just have to accept the fact that many people are going to choose to work and live their lives than risk being out of work and not paying rent or bills.
Yes, another stimulus package would really help everyone directly and indirectly.
Yes and I don’t think that will even be enough at this time. More and more people are just going to stop getting tested. For most people it’s not worth the risk to their well being for a virus that has very little chance of effecting them personally. I think this will be a big driving force in the virus spreading. At least based on what I’ve seen and people who I’ve talked to.
Without access to all free testing this is EXACTLY what is going to happen, and in fact is already happening throughout Montana. I'd wager there is 15-30% of people with active symptoms that aren't getting tested for various reasons, with the cost of testing the most significant factor.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:23 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:59 pm
One issue we’re currently having, from my vantage point is people’s willingness to get tested. Being responsible and do what you can for others is fine and great. But when you are sacrificing your own well being for others it’s a slippery slope.

This virus, like just about everything else in life, boils down to social status. If I’m a doctor or lawyer or musician or athlete, or anyone with wealth; it’s EASY to be selfless and look out for others and quarantine for weeks and months. But for regular people, not working for 2 weeks isn’t an option. Even negative testing requires quarantine in many situations which people simply can’t afford.

You know we have people all over that feel sick but are just gonna work through it. Or people who were in close contact with a positive case but they won’t get tested. And I don’t know how we can blame them or label them selfish. The simple fact is more people than not can’t afford to just not work for a couple weeks. And it’s not a one time thing. I have an employee who’s been in close contact with a positive three times. He’s taken three Covid tests. Three times he tested negative. (Once he tested positive but days later his results said it was a false positive) And three separate times he had to miss work for nearly two weeks. He’s a college kid so still has support from his folks. Most don’t have that.

If they really wanted to slow the spread, they should have did a lot more than a tiny $1200 “stimulus” 6 months ago. If not, you just have to accept the fact that many people are going to choose to work and live their lives than risk being out of work and not paying rent or bills.
Yes, another stimulus package would really help everyone directly and indirectly.
Yes and I don’t think that will even be enough at this time. More and more people are just going to stop getting tested. For most people it’s not worth the risk to their well being for a virus that has very little chance of effecting them personally. I think this will be a big driving force in the virus spreading. At least based on what I’ve seen and people who I’ve talked to.
Without access to all free testing this is EXACTLY what is going to happen, and in fact is already happening throughout Montana. I'd wager there is 15-30% of people with active symptoms that aren't getting tested for various reasons, with the cost of testing the most significant factor.
I agree, though at least from some I’ve talked to the fear of not earning money for at least 14 days seems the forefront. Or the fact that a person can take a test and quarantine while waiting for results that can take over a week. Then you test negative and suddenly you sacrificed a weeks worth or earnings to protect others and it was all for naught.

I think this is happening way more than people know. If they truly wanted to take care of this virus, they needed to fund testing so it’s much faster and either free or very cheap. And they should have funded some sort of stimulus where people don’t lose earnings by getting tested. Now you just have this virus that makes very few sick enough to be hospitalized, but at the same time you expect people to just sit at home for a couple weeks in case they may have it and can pass it to others? Then be behind on bills? Maybe can’t pay rent? Barely afford food?

Let’s face it. Until they figure out a way to compensate those who test, regardless of its positive or negative, more and more people are just going to refuse testing. And more and more will be infected. And more and more will blame the spike on not wearing masks. :wink:



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 am

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:47 am
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:26 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:59 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:21 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:10 am
I haven't looked at Montana's COVID numbers in a while, so I thought I'd check in today.

10/20/2020
New Cases: 706
New Tests: 2655
Today's positivity rate: 27%
8,999 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 252
Death Rate: 1%

https://montana.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Ma ... 2103421d4b
10/21/2020
New Cases: 624
New Tests: 2973
Today's positivity rate: 21% (ooof!)
9,352 Active cases
345 Active Hospitalizations (decrease of 15 from yesterday)

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 275 (Increase of 23 from yesterday)
Death Rate: 1%

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/22/2020
New Cases: **932** NEW RECORD (Previous Record was 734 on 10/14)
New Tests: 4852
Today's positivity rate: 19%
9,096 Active cases
353 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 278 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/23/2020
New Cases: 863
New Tests: 8154
Today's positivity rate: 11%
9,610 Active cases
351 Active Hospitalizations (-2 from yesterday)
Deaths: 282 (+4 from yesterday)
10/24/2020
New Cases: 647
New Tests: 3032
Today's positivity rate: 21%
9,412 Active cases
348 Active Hospitalizations (-3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 294 (+8 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/25/2020
New Cases: 746
New Tests: 1577
Today's positivity rate: 47%?!?!?!
9,751 Active cases
357 Active Hospitalizations (+9 from yesterday)
Deaths: 297 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/26/2020

New Cases: 622
New Tests: 10718
Today's positivity rate: 6%
9,855 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 303 (+6 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/27/2020

New Cases: 855
New Tests: 4997
Today's positivity rate: 17%
10,060 Active cases
350 Active Hospitalizations (-10 from yesterday)
Deaths: 305 (+2 from yesterday)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:27 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm

I agree, though at least from some I’ve talked to the fear of not earning money for at least 14 days seems the forefront. Or the fact that a person can take a test and quarantine while waiting for results that can take over a week. Then you test negative and suddenly you sacrificed a weeks worth or earnings to protect others and it was all for naught.

I think this is happening way more than people know. If they truly wanted to take care of this virus, they needed to fund testing so it’s much faster and either free or very cheap. And they should have funded some sort of stimulus where people don’t lose earnings by getting tested. Now you just have this virus that makes very few sick enough to be hospitalized, but at the same time you expect people to just sit at home for a couple weeks in case they may have it and can pass it to others? Then be behind on bills? Maybe can’t pay rent? Barely afford food?

Let’s face it. Until they figure out a way to compensate those who test, regardless of its positive or negative, more and more people are just going to refuse testing. And more and more will be infected. And more and more will blame the spike on not wearing masks. :wink:
This does exists to an extent, BUT only for people that work for companies with fewer than 500 employees under the Families First Coronavirus Response Act. You get paid for up to two weeks if there is a federal, state or local quarantine order, if a health care provider tells you to self-quarantine or if you are experiencing COVID symptoms and are seeking a medical diagnosis. You are eligible for 2/3 pay for up to two weeks if you are caring form an individual who is quarantined. You can get up to 12 weeks 2/3 pay if you are caring for a dependent due to school or childcare closure for up to 12 weeks. There are dollar caps on all of these scenarios. Employers are reimbursed through Federal taxes credits. The kicker; large employers do not have to do this. Guess who has pretty good lobbyists….



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:40 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:27 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm

I agree, though at least from some I’ve talked to the fear of not earning money for at least 14 days seems the forefront. Or the fact that a person can take a test and quarantine while waiting for results that can take over a week. Then you test negative and suddenly you sacrificed a weeks worth or earnings to protect others and it was all for naught.

I think this is happening way more than people know. If they truly wanted to take care of this virus, they needed to fund testing so it’s much faster and either free or very cheap. And they should have funded some sort of stimulus where people don’t lose earnings by getting tested. Now you just have this virus that makes very few sick enough to be hospitalized, but at the same time you expect people to just sit at home for a couple weeks in case they may have it and can pass it to others? Then be behind on bills? Maybe can’t pay rent? Barely afford food?

Let’s face it. Until they figure out a way to compensate those who test, regardless of its positive or negative, more and more people are just going to refuse testing. And more and more will be infected. And more and more will blame the spike on not wearing masks. :wink:
This does exists to an extent, BUT only for people that work for companies with fewer than 500 employees under the Families First Coronavirus Response Act. You get paid for up to two weeks if there is a federal, state or local quarantine order, if a health care provider tells you to self-quarantine or if you are experiencing COVID symptoms and are seeking a medical diagnosis. You are eligible for 2/3 pay for up to two weeks if you are caring form an individual who is quarantined. You can get up to 12 weeks 2/3 pay if you are caring for a dependent due to school or childcare closure for up to 12 weeks. There are dollar caps on all of these scenarios. Employers are reimbursed through Federal taxes credits. The kicker; large employers do not have to do this. Guess who has pretty good lobbyists….
Unless I am reading what you are saying incorrectly, this would be a huge amount of people. I'm thinking nearly every service industry person, grocery clerk, car salesman, personal trainer, basically everyone in retail, janitors, etc would fall into this category. And speaking in typical terms, most times it's these people that are already making far below people working in large companies to begin with.

I was just pointing out that right now if you work just about any job, you're not likely to be eligible for any lost wages. Again, unless I am reading what you wrote above incorrectly. So I think more and more people are just going to opt to not test unless they're basically on their death bed. This alone will create more cases.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:10 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:23 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:59 pm
One issue we’re currently having, from my vantage point is people’s willingness to get tested. Being responsible and do what you can for others is fine and great. But when you are sacrificing your own well being for others it’s a slippery slope.

This virus, like just about everything else in life, boils down to social status. If I’m a doctor or lawyer or musician or athlete, or anyone with wealth; it’s EASY to be selfless and look out for others and quarantine for weeks and months. But for regular people, not working for 2 weeks isn’t an option. Even negative testing requires quarantine in many situations which people simply can’t afford.

You know we have people all over that feel sick but are just gonna work through it. Or people who were in close contact with a positive case but they won’t get tested. And I don’t know how we can blame them or label them selfish. The simple fact is more people than not can’t afford to just not work for a couple weeks. And it’s not a one time thing. I have an employee who’s been in close contact with a positive three times. He’s taken three Covid tests. Three times he tested negative. (Once he tested positive but days later his results said it was a false positive) And three separate times he had to miss work for nearly two weeks. He’s a college kid so still has support from his folks. Most don’t have that.

If they really wanted to slow the spread, they should have did a lot more than a tiny $1200 “stimulus” 6 months ago. If not, you just have to accept the fact that many people are going to choose to work and live their lives than risk being out of work and not paying rent or bills.
Yes, another stimulus package would really help everyone directly and indirectly.
Yes and I don’t think that will even be enough at this time. More and more people are just going to stop getting tested. For most people it’s not worth the risk to their well being for a virus that has very little chance of effecting them personally. I think this will be a big driving force in the virus spreading. At least based on what I’ve seen and people who I’ve talked to.
Without access to all free testing this is EXACTLY what is going to happen, and in fact is already happening throughout Montana. I'd wager there is 15-30% of people with active symptoms that aren't getting tested for various reasons, with the cost of testing the most significant factor.
I agree, though at least from some I’ve talked to the fear of not earning money for at least 14 days seems the forefront. Or the fact that a person can take a test and quarantine while waiting for results that can take over a week. Then you test negative and suddenly you sacrificed a weeks worth or earnings to protect others and it was all for naught.

I think this is happening way more than people know. If they truly wanted to take care of this virus, they needed to fund testing so it’s much faster and either free or very cheap. And they should have funded some sort of stimulus where people don’t lose earnings by getting tested. Now you just have this virus that makes very few sick enough to be hospitalized, but at the same time you expect people to just sit at home for a couple weeks in case they may have it and can pass it to others? Then be behind on bills? Maybe can’t pay rent? Barely afford food?

Let’s face it. Until they figure out a way to compensate those who test, regardless of its positive or negative, more and more people are just going to refuse testing. And more and more will be infected. And more and more will blame the spike on not wearing masks. :wink:
As someone who has previously worked in the food industry for a number of years, I can absolutely tell you people show up sicker than they should be because they simply can't miss a paycheck. Now on the top of that, you are faced with the guilt of having your employer potentially shut down until contact tracing and testing for everyone else can be completed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if people are showing up to these lower wage jobs feeling under the weather, even potentially suspecting they may have COVID with mild symptoms, for the reasons I laid out above.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:38 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:10 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:23 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:59 pm
One issue we’re currently having, from my vantage point is people’s willingness to get tested. Being responsible and do what you can for others is fine and great. But when you are sacrificing your own well being for others it’s a slippery slope.

This virus, like just about everything else in life, boils down to social status. If I’m a doctor or lawyer or musician or athlete, or anyone with wealth; it’s EASY to be selfless and look out for others and quarantine for weeks and months. But for regular people, not working for 2 weeks isn’t an option. Even negative testing requires quarantine in many situations which people simply can’t afford.

You know we have people all over that feel sick but are just gonna work through it. Or people who were in close contact with a positive case but they won’t get tested. And I don’t know how we can blame them or label them selfish. The simple fact is more people than not can’t afford to just not work for a couple weeks. And it’s not a one time thing. I have an employee who’s been in close contact with a positive three times. He’s taken three Covid tests. Three times he tested negative. (Once he tested positive but days later his results said it was a false positive) And three separate times he had to miss work for nearly two weeks. He’s a college kid so still has support from his folks. Most don’t have that.

If they really wanted to slow the spread, they should have did a lot more than a tiny $1200 “stimulus” 6 months ago. If not, you just have to accept the fact that many people are going to choose to work and live their lives than risk being out of work and not paying rent or bills.
Yes, another stimulus package would really help everyone directly and indirectly.
Yes and I don’t think that will even be enough at this time. More and more people are just going to stop getting tested. For most people it’s not worth the risk to their well being for a virus that has very little chance of effecting them personally. I think this will be a big driving force in the virus spreading. At least based on what I’ve seen and people who I’ve talked to.
Without access to all free testing this is EXACTLY what is going to happen, and in fact is already happening throughout Montana. I'd wager there is 15-30% of people with active symptoms that aren't getting tested for various reasons, with the cost of testing the most significant factor.
I agree, though at least from some I’ve talked to the fear of not earning money for at least 14 days seems the forefront. Or the fact that a person can take a test and quarantine while waiting for results that can take over a week. Then you test negative and suddenly you sacrificed a weeks worth or earnings to protect others and it was all for naught.

I think this is happening way more than people know. If they truly wanted to take care of this virus, they needed to fund testing so it’s much faster and either free or very cheap. And they should have funded some sort of stimulus where people don’t lose earnings by getting tested. Now you just have this virus that makes very few sick enough to be hospitalized, but at the same time you expect people to just sit at home for a couple weeks in case they may have it and can pass it to others? Then be behind on bills? Maybe can’t pay rent? Barely afford food?

Let’s face it. Until they figure out a way to compensate those who test, regardless of its positive or negative, more and more people are just going to refuse testing. And more and more will be infected. And more and more will blame the spike on not wearing masks. :wink:
As someone who has previously worked in the food industry for a number of years, I can absolutely tell you people show up sicker than they should be because they simply can't miss a paycheck. Now on the top of that, you are faced with the guilt of having your employer potentially shut down until contact tracing and testing for everyone else can be completed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if people are showing up to these lower wage jobs feeling under the weather, even potentially suspecting they may have COVID with mild symptoms, for the reasons I laid out above.
Exactly. It's happening everywhere and will only continue to happen as this thing goes along. I know of one instance specifically where a guy went in to get tested, and they asked of names of people the person was with over the last five days. The guy didn't feel comfortable giving that info as some of his friends told him to please not give their names. They couldn't afford to not work.

I also have a friend who got tested, and the results took so long that towards the end he was actually hoping to be positive as he would have had "time served" on his quarantine. Had the results came back negative, they recommended he quarantine another 5 days in case he was positive after the initial test 7 days prior.

Not laying blame on anyone. Just another flaw I've noticed in the system and one that I speculate may have more to do with cases rising than masks.



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:39 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:40 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:27 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm

I agree, though at least from some I’ve talked to the fear of not earning money for at least 14 days seems the forefront. Or the fact that a person can take a test and quarantine while waiting for results that can take over a week. Then you test negative and suddenly you sacrificed a weeks worth or earnings to protect others and it was all for naught.

I think this is happening way more than people know. If they truly wanted to take care of this virus, they needed to fund testing so it’s much faster and either free or very cheap. And they should have funded some sort of stimulus where people don’t lose earnings by getting tested. Now you just have this virus that makes very few sick enough to be hospitalized, but at the same time you expect people to just sit at home for a couple weeks in case they may have it and can pass it to others? Then be behind on bills? Maybe can’t pay rent? Barely afford food?

Let’s face it. Until they figure out a way to compensate those who test, regardless of its positive or negative, more and more people are just going to refuse testing. And more and more will be infected. And more and more will blame the spike on not wearing masks. :wink:
This does exists to an extent, BUT only for people that work for companies with fewer than 500 employees under the Families First Coronavirus Response Act. You get paid for up to two weeks if there is a federal, state or local quarantine order, if a health care provider tells you to self-quarantine or if you are experiencing COVID symptoms and are seeking a medical diagnosis. You are eligible for 2/3 pay for up to two weeks if you are caring form an individual who is quarantined. You can get up to 12 weeks 2/3 pay if you are caring for a dependent due to school or childcare closure for up to 12 weeks. There are dollar caps on all of these scenarios. Employers are reimbursed through Federal taxes credits. The kicker; large employers do not have to do this. Guess who has pretty good lobbyists….
Unless I am reading what you are saying incorrectly, this would be a huge amount of people. I'm thinking nearly every service industry person, grocery clerk, car salesman, personal trainer, basically everyone in retail, janitors, etc would fall into this category. And speaking in typical terms, most times it's these people that are already making far below people working in large companies to begin with.

I was just pointing out that right now if you work just about any job, you're not likely to be eligible for any lost wages. Again, unless I am reading what you wrote above incorrectly. So I think more and more people are just going to opt to not test unless they're basically on their death bed. This alone will create more cases.
A lot of people do fall under this, but it is ss#s not FTEs. So a part-time person is equal to a full-time person in the 500 count. That makes a huge difference. The program ends at the end of the calendar year.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pandem ... paid-leave



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The Butcher
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:40 pm

This was a tough read as a resident of South Dakota.
Complain all you want about Montana government’s response to COVID, but this is sickening about the lack of leadership in the Dakotas. 😔
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future ... third-wave



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wbtfg
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Posts: 10357
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:30 am

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 am
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:47 am
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:26 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:59 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:21 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:10 am
I haven't looked at Montana's COVID numbers in a while, so I thought I'd check in today.

10/20/2020
New Cases: 706
New Tests: 2655
Today's positivity rate: 27%
8,999 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 252
Death Rate: 1%

https://montana.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Ma ... 2103421d4b
10/21/2020
New Cases: 624
New Tests: 2973
Today's positivity rate: 21% (ooof!)
9,352 Active cases
345 Active Hospitalizations (decrease of 15 from yesterday)

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 275 (Increase of 23 from yesterday)
Death Rate: 1%

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/22/2020
New Cases: **932** NEW RECORD (Previous Record was 734 on 10/14)
New Tests: 4852
Today's positivity rate: 19%
9,096 Active cases
353 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 278 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/23/2020
New Cases: 863
New Tests: 8154
Today's positivity rate: 11%
9,610 Active cases
351 Active Hospitalizations (-2 from yesterday)
Deaths: 282 (+4 from yesterday)
10/24/2020
New Cases: 647
New Tests: 3032
Today's positivity rate: 21%
9,412 Active cases
348 Active Hospitalizations (-3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 294 (+8 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/25/2020
New Cases: 746
New Tests: 1577
Today's positivity rate: 47%?!?!?!
9,751 Active cases
357 Active Hospitalizations (+9 from yesterday)
Deaths: 297 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/26/2020

New Cases: 622
New Tests: 10718
Today's positivity rate: 6%
9,855 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 303 (+6 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/27/2020

New Cases: 855
New Tests: 4997
Today's positivity rate: 17%
10,060 Active cases
350 Active Hospitalizations (-10 from yesterday)
Deaths: 305 (+2 from yesterday)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/28/2020

New Cases: 632
New Tests: 3148
Today's positivity rate: 20%
10,122 Active cases
374 Active Hospitalizations (+24 from yesterday :shock: )
Deaths: 325 (+20 from yesterday :shock: )


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 10357
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:23 am

wbtfg wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:30 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 am
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:47 am
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:26 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:59 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:21 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:10 am
I haven't looked at Montana's COVID numbers in a while, so I thought I'd check in today.

10/20/2020
New Cases: 706
New Tests: 2655
Today's positivity rate: 27%
8,999 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 252
Death Rate: 1%

https://montana.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Ma ... 2103421d4b
10/21/2020
New Cases: 624
New Tests: 2973
Today's positivity rate: 21% (ooof!)
9,352 Active cases
345 Active Hospitalizations (decrease of 15 from yesterday)

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 275 (Increase of 23 from yesterday)
Death Rate: 1%

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/22/2020
New Cases: **932** NEW RECORD (Previous Record was 734 on 10/14)
New Tests: 4852
Today's positivity rate: 19%
9,096 Active cases
353 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 278 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/23/2020
New Cases: 863
New Tests: 8154
Today's positivity rate: 11%
9,610 Active cases
351 Active Hospitalizations (-2 from yesterday)
Deaths: 282 (+4 from yesterday)
10/24/2020
New Cases: 647
New Tests: 3032
Today's positivity rate: 21%
9,412 Active cases
348 Active Hospitalizations (-3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 294 (+8 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/25/2020
New Cases: 746
New Tests: 1577
Today's positivity rate: 47%?!?!?!
9,751 Active cases
357 Active Hospitalizations (+9 from yesterday)
Deaths: 297 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/26/2020

New Cases: 622
New Tests: 10718
Today's positivity rate: 6%
9,855 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 303 (+6 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/27/2020

New Cases: 855
New Tests: 4997
Today's positivity rate: 17%
10,060 Active cases
350 Active Hospitalizations (-10 from yesterday)
Deaths: 305 (+2 from yesterday)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/28/2020

New Cases: 632
New Tests: 3148
Today's positivity rate: 20%
10,122 Active cases
374 Active Hospitalizations (+24 from yesterday :shock: )
Deaths: 325 (+20 from yesterday :shock: )


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/29/2020

New Cases: 891
New Tests: 3137
Today's positivity rate: 28%
10,474 Active cases
371 Active Hospitalizations (-1 from yesterday )
Deaths: 337 (+12 from yesterday)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



TomCat88
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 14448
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:45 pm

Cousin spent a week+ in Billings hospital ICU with Covid. Just got out. On the mend.

Another passed away yesterday. Not Covid as far as I know.


MSU - 14 team National Champions (most recent 2011); 52 individual National Champions (most recent 2017).
toM StUber

TomCat88
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Posts: 14448
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:12 pm

Text I got today:
“When I took ——— to the ER on Monday, there were beds with patients in the hallways all through the ER. Nurses were running everywhere. Everyone was tested for Covid ASAP and results came back in under 30 minutes so they stayed quarantined and separated from non Covid. It was scary walking down the halls. I can't imagine what the staff are going through. It's a never ending emergency and tragedy. People who won't wear mask should have to spend 24 hours in an ER center.”


MSU - 14 team National Champions (most recent 2011); 52 individual National Champions (most recent 2017).
toM StUber

Cataholic
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3367
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Cataholic » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:16 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:12 pm
Text I got today:
“When I took ——— to the ER on Monday, there were beds with patients in the hallways all through the ER. Nurses were running everywhere. Everyone was tested for Covid ASAP and results came back in under 30 minutes so they stayed quarantined and separated from non Covid. It was scary walking down the halls. I can't imagine what the staff are going through. It's a never ending emergency and tragedy. People who won't wear mask should have to spend 24 hours in an ER center.”
Wow. That is scary. Where do they live?



TomCat88
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 14448
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:59 am

Cataholic wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:16 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:12 pm
Text I got today:
“When I took ——— to the ER on Monday, there were beds with patients in the hallways all through the ER. Nurses were running everywhere. Everyone was tested for Covid ASAP and results came back in under 30 minutes so they stayed quarantined and separated from non Covid. It was scary walking down the halls. I can't imagine what the staff are going through. It's a never ending emergency and tragedy. People who won't wear mask should have to spend 24 hours in an ER center.”
Wow. That is scary. Where do they live?
Phoenix area.


MSU - 14 team National Champions (most recent 2011); 52 individual National Champions (most recent 2017).
toM StUber

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The Butcher
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Posts: 2324
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:51 am

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:00 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:59 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:16 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:12 pm
Text I got today:
“When I took ——— to the ER on Monday, there were beds with patients in the hallways all through the ER. Nurses were running everywhere. Everyone was tested for Covid ASAP and results came back in under 30 minutes so they stayed quarantined and separated from non Covid. It was scary walking down the halls. I can't imagine what the staff are going through. It's a never ending emergency and tragedy. People who won't wear mask should have to spend 24 hours in an ER center.”
Wow. That is scary. Where do they live?
Phoenix area.
Nurse friend in Billings has been asked to help in the ICU because they have so many patients on ventilators (27). They have had to take over the PACU for ventilated patients. They have never worked in the ICU so they worried. Beds are not the only issue, people properly trained to help patients is a legitimate issue too.



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The Butcher
Member # Retired
Posts: 2324
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:51 am

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:43 am

It is really blowing up in South Dakota. The Governor has spent a significant amount of time on Trump's campaign trail and has insisted that things are going great in South Dakota in relation to COVID.

10/30/2020
New Cases: 1,559 ***New single day record***
New Tests: 3140
Today's positivity rate: 49.7% ***INSANE***
13,520 Active cases ***New single day record***
403 Active Hospitalizations (-10 from yesterday) ***This is only South Dakotans per State DOH, so non-South Dakotans are in the hospitals too?***
Deaths: 415 (+12 from yesterday, and 192 deaths in October)



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wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 10357
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:42 am

wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:23 am
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:30 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 am
wbtfg wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:47 am
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:26 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:40 am
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:59 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:21 am
wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:10 am
I haven't looked at Montana's COVID numbers in a while, so I thought I'd check in today.

10/20/2020
New Cases: 706
New Tests: 2655
Today's positivity rate: 27%
8,999 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 252
Death Rate: 1%

https://montana.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Ma ... 2103421d4b
10/21/2020
New Cases: 624
New Tests: 2973
Today's positivity rate: 21% (ooof!)
9,352 Active cases
345 Active Hospitalizations (decrease of 15 from yesterday)

Total Cases: 24,093
Deaths: 275 (Increase of 23 from yesterday)
Death Rate: 1%

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/22/2020
New Cases: **932** NEW RECORD (Previous Record was 734 on 10/14)
New Tests: 4852
Today's positivity rate: 19%
9,096 Active cases
353 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 278 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/23/2020
New Cases: 863
New Tests: 8154
Today's positivity rate: 11%
9,610 Active cases
351 Active Hospitalizations (-2 from yesterday)
Deaths: 282 (+4 from yesterday)
10/24/2020
New Cases: 647
New Tests: 3032
Today's positivity rate: 21%
9,412 Active cases
348 Active Hospitalizations (-3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 294 (+8 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/25/2020
New Cases: 746
New Tests: 1577
Today's positivity rate: 47%?!?!?!
9,751 Active cases
357 Active Hospitalizations (+9 from yesterday)
Deaths: 297 (+3 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/26/2020

New Cases: 622
New Tests: 10718
Today's positivity rate: 6%
9,855 Active cases
360 Active Hospitalizations (+3 from yesterday)
Deaths: 303 (+6 from yesterday)

**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/27/2020

New Cases: 855
New Tests: 4997
Today's positivity rate: 17%
10,060 Active cases
350 Active Hospitalizations (-10 from yesterday)
Deaths: 305 (+2 from yesterday)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/28/2020

New Cases: 632
New Tests: 3148
Today's positivity rate: 20%
10,122 Active cases
374 Active Hospitalizations (+24 from yesterday :shock: )
Deaths: 325 (+20 from yesterday :shock: )


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/29/2020

New Cases: 891
New Tests: 3137
Today's positivity rate: 28%
10,474 Active cases
371 Active Hospitalizations (-1 from yesterday )
Deaths: 337 (+12 from yesterday)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**
10/30/2020

New Cases: 1063 (New Single Day Record)
New Tests: 5022
Today's positivity rate: 21%
10,450 Active cases
357 Active Hospitalizations (-14 from yesterday )
Deaths: 364 (+27 from yesterday...this may also be a record)


**Remember to practice physical distancing, wear your mask, wash your hands, don't touch your face.**



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