Cure worse than the problem?

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ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am

iaafan wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:30 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:52 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:29 pm
Didn’t wanna muck up the football board. But here’s another article on how we likely have way more people infected than we first thought. Which some have suggested for a while.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-stu ... 22682.html
Yes, that’s most likely the case. I don’t think anyone would be surprised as it’s been expected to be the case. There are also more deaths than reported.

At the end of this, they will have a wide range for both cases and deaths. Hard to say what those ranges will be at this point.
I'm not disputing this 1aa as I have no idea. But how has it been suggested that more people have died from covid than reported? Do they die in hospitals and doctors didn't know they had covid? Or did they die at home from covid? Or are you saying there's such a lag in reporting that there are deaths now that won't be counted for a while?
Not complicated. Average deaths are less than actual deaths. That’s how they determine range for flu, pneumonia, etc.
I gotcha. I didn't know they were averaging covid deaths. I guess it WAS complicated for me...



iaafan
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by iaafan » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:40 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:30 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:52 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:29 pm
Didn’t wanna muck up the football board. But here’s another article on how we likely have way more people infected than we first thought. Which some have suggested for a while.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-stu ... 22682.html
Yes, that’s most likely the case. I don’t think anyone would be surprised as it’s been expected to be the case. There are also more deaths than reported.

At the end of this, they will have a wide range for both cases and deaths. Hard to say what those ranges will be at this point.
I'm not disputing this 1aa as I have no idea. But how has it been suggested that more people have died from covid than reported? Do they die in hospitals and doctors didn't know they had covid? Or did they die at home from covid? Or are you saying there's such a lag in reporting that there are deaths now that won't be counted for a while?
Not complicated. Average deaths are less than actual deaths. That’s how they determine range for flu, pneumonia, etc.
I gotcha. I didn't know they were averaging covid deaths. I guess it WAS complicated for me...
There's is a number of deaths in the country, each state, each large metro area that has been being collected by year, month for a period of time, which is used to determine an average. You can tell when a disease is claiming more lives than normal by comparing the average deaths over time to the deaths that year, month. When the number of deaths during a given time frame exceeds the average number of deaths by a substantial portion and it is still much higher even when figuring in the deaths from, in this case Covid, then you can determine a range of the number of deaths attributable to Covid.

For example, if the average number of deaths in July was 5,000, but this year it's 8,000 and 1,500 of those are know to be from Covid, there's still 1,500 more deaths than there normally would've been. That tells scientists that there's either another disease going around or some kind of anomaly exists and they begin searching for it. If they don't find anything, they include those deaths in the range of possible deaths caused by Covid.

At some point they will determine an estimate for how many covid deaths there were based on information gathered and and the example above. It'll likely be a wide range. Like right now I'd guess the range would be 145,000 to 1850,000 deaths in the U.S. from Covid.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by 91catAlum » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Regarding the original topic... this speaks to the "cure being worse than the disease".

I found myself in a bad funk last Sunday/Monday (I'm fine now) and it got me thinking about the damage we are doing to many people's mental and emotional health. So I searched for suicide rate during COVID. I couldn't find anything very recent, but this article from May should help us all try to see the forest thru the trees - I think we often get caught up in only thinking and acting on the COVID cases and deaths. There is a much, much bigger picture.
An ABC affiliate in California reports that doctors at John Muir Medical Center tell them they have seen more deaths by suicide than COVID-19 during the quarantine.

“The numbers are unprecedented,” said Dr. Michael deBoisblanc, referring to the spike in suicides.

"We've never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time," deBoisblanc added. "I mean we've seen a year's worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks."
https://fee.org/articles/a-years-worth- ... lockdowns/


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ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:08 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm
Regarding the original topic... this speaks to the "cure being worse than the disease".

I found myself in a bad funk last Sunday/Monday (I'm fine now) and it got me thinking about the damage we are doing to many people's mental and emotional health. So I searched for suicide rate during COVID. I couldn't find anything very recent, but this article from May should help us all try to see the forest thru the trees - I think we often get caught up in only thinking and acting on the COVID cases and deaths. There is a much, much bigger picture.
An ABC affiliate in California reports that doctors at John Muir Medical Center tell them they have seen more deaths by suicide than COVID-19 during the quarantine.

“The numbers are unprecedented,” said Dr. Michael deBoisblanc, referring to the spike in suicides.

"We've never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time," deBoisblanc added. "I mean we've seen a year's worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks."
https://fee.org/articles/a-years-worth- ... lockdowns/
Yep, we touched on this a lot when we first got into this thing. It was one of my major concerns the whole time. Domestic abuse is also way up.

I've said since the beginning if it was just the virus, and just the deaths associated with the virus, I wouldn't have an issue with being forced to not work, or my kids not go to school. But it's not just that. There are many other reprocussions from this virus, including non-covid deaths that should be considered.



Rich K
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:01 pm



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:33 pm

Rich K wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:01 pm
That’s awesome. I hope it’s true.

Questions: who’s is she? Where is she from? When was the video taken? If whats she’s saying is true, why Isn’t this treatment being touted more?



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:49 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:33 pm
Rich K wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:01 pm
That’s awesome. I hope it’s true.

Questions: who’s is she? Where is she from? When was the video taken? If whats she’s saying is true, why Isn’t this treatment being touted more?
It was awesome, but now it's been removed. I'll see if I can find it in twitter archives.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:56 pm

Not sure what happened to the original tweet but here's some info on it.



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wbtfg
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by wbtfg » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:05 pm

I’m hopeful but skeptical. I’d certainly be willing to read not information about her and the treatment.

That said, I’ve learned time and time again the old adage “what looks too good to be true usually is”



Rich K
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:12 pm

Here's a surviving link to a tweet with the full video. (2nd link works)


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:16 pm



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:17 pm

If you don't want to go through twitter


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by RickRund » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:48 pm

Wondering if maybe some of the hydroxychloroquine problem is there is no money in it. Very inexpensive. About $35-$40 for 100 tablets. AND Trump recommended its usage.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:56 pm



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:48 am

Clinical studies say placebo has the same effect as hydrochloriquine. Why isn’t everyone just taking placebo? It has no side effects. \:D/

It’s a conspiracy against the placebo manufacturers. If you do something that you think will make you feel better it works sometimes. It’s been scientifically proven.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:23 am

So the video is being scrubbed. Wow. Violating community standards just isn't what it used to be. I guess Twitter and Youtube community standards aligns with Burners Looters and Murderers.
We're left with transcripts. Luckily those of us here have college experience and remember how to read.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/am ... -uVfM4AUJ4
Dr. Stella Immanuel: (05:27)
Hello, I’m Dr. Stella Immanuel. I’m a primary care physician in Houston, Texas. I actually went to medical school in West Africa, Nigeria, where I took care of malaria patients, treated them with hydroxychloroquine and stuff like that. So I’m actually used to these medications. I’m here because I have personally treated over 350 patients with COVID. Patients that have diabetes, patients that have high blood pressure, patients that have asthma, old people … I think my oldest patient is 92 … 87 year olds. And the result has been the same. I put them on hydroxychloroquine, I put them on zinc, I put them on Zithromax, and they’re all well.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (06:12)
For the past few months, after taking care of over 350 patients, we’ve not lost one. Not a diabetic, not a somebody with high blood pressure, not somebody who asthma, not an old person. We’ve not lost one patient. And on top of that, I’ve put myself, my staff, and many doctors that I know on hydroxychloroquine for prevention, because by the very mechanism of action, it works early and as a prophylaxis. We see patients, 10 to 15 COVID patients, everyday. We give them breathing treatments. We only wear surgical mask. None of us has gotten sick. It works.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (06:46)
So right now, I came here to Washington DC to say, America, nobody needs to die. The study that made me start using hydroxychloroquine was a study that they did under the NIH in 2005 that say it works. Recently, I was doing some research about a patient that had hiccups and I found out that they even did a recent study in the NIH, which is our National Institute … that is the National … NIH, what? National Institute of Health. They actually had a study and go look it up. Type hiccups and COVID, you will see it. They treated a patient that had hiccups with hydroxychloroquine and it proved that hiccups is a symptom of COVID. So if the NIH knows that treating the patient would hydroxychloroquine proves that hiccup is a symptom of COVID, then they definitely know the hydroxychloroquine works.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (07:42)
I’m upset. Why I’m upset is that I see people that cannot breathe. I see parents walk in, I see diabetic sit in my office knowing that this is a death sentence and they can’t breathe. And I hug them and I tell them, “It’s going to be okay. You’re going to live.” And we treat them and they leave. None has died. So if some fake science, some person sponsored by all these fake pharma companies comes out say, “We’ve done studies and they found out that it doesn’t work.” I can tell you categorically it’s fixed science. I want to know who is sponsoring that study. I want to know who is behind it because there is no way I can treat 350 patients and counting and nobody is dead and they all did better.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (08:21)
I know you’re going to tell me that you treated 20 people, 40 people, and it didn’t work. I’m a true testimony. So I came here to Washington DC to tell America nobody needs to get sick. This virus has a cure. It is called hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and Zithromax. I know you people want to talk about a mask. Hello? You don’t need mask. There is a cure. I know they don’t want to open schools. No, you don’t need people to be locked down. There is prevention and there is a cure.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (08:48)
And let me tell you something, all you fake doctors out there that tell me, “Yeah. I want a double blinded study.” I just tell you, quit sounding like a computer, double blinded, double blinded. I don’t know whether your chips are malfunctioning, but I’m a real doctor. I have radiologists, we have plastic surgeons, we have neurosurgeons, like Sanjay Gupta saying, “Yeah, it doesn’t work and it causes heart disease.” Let me ask you Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Hear me. Have you ever seen a COVID patient? Have you ever treated anybody with hydroxychloroquine and they died from heart disease? When you do, come and talk to me because I sit down in my clinic every day and I see these patients walk in everyday scared to death. I see people driving two, three hours to my clinic because some ER doctor is scared of the Texas board or they’re scared of something, and they will not prescribe medication to these people.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (09:35)
I tell all of you doctors that are sitting down and watching Americans die. You’re like the good Nazi … the good one, the good Germans that watched Jews get killed and you did not speak up. If they come after me, they threaten me. They’ve threatened to … I mean, I’ve gotten all kinds of threats. Or they’re going to report me to the bots. I say, you know what? I don’t care. I’m not going to let Americans die. And if this is the hill where I get nailed on, I will get nailed on it. I don’t care. You can report me to the bots, you can kill me, you can do whatever, but I’m not going to let Americans die.

Dr. Stella Immanuel: (10:09)
And today I’m here to say it, that America, there is a cure for COVID. All this foolishness does not need to happen. There is a cure for COVID. There is a cure for COVID is called hydroxychloroquine. It’s called zinc. It’s called Zithromax. And it is time for the grassroots to wake up and say, “No, we’re not going to take this any longer. We’re not going to die.” Because let me tell you something, when somebody is dead, they are dead. They’re not coming back tomorrow to have an argument. They are not come back tomorrow to discuss the double blinded study and the data. All of you doctors that are waiting for data, if six months down the line you actually found out that this data shows that this medication works, how about your patients that have died? You want a double blinded study where people are dying? It’s unethical. So guys, we don’t need to die. There is a cure for COVID,,,,.
There is more but Dr. Immanuel seems to be today's lightning rod.


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Rich K
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by Rich K » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:40 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:48 am
Clinical studies say placebo has the same effect as hydrochloriquine. Why isn’t everyone just taking placebo? It has no side effects. \:D/

It’s a conspiracy against the placebo manufacturers. If you do something that you think will make you feel better it works sometimes. It’s been scientifically proven.
The video was posted by Breitbart... Misinformation has only accelerated the spread of COVID-19.
It is just sad that our elected officials are unwilling to listen to science to keep all Americans safe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/faceboo ... viral.html



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by codecat » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:41 am

Rich K wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, NY Times, Washington Post, Google, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube(owned by google) SHAPING THE NEWS for you! Seems so many on the left are blinded by their own self righteousness they cannot perceive the blatant political distortion of the "news", much less ask themselves questions like "who owns these enterprises" or "why would they do such a think".


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by The Butcher » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:44 am

codecat wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:41 am
Rich K wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, NY Times, Washington Post, Google, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube(owned by google) SHAPING THE NEWS for you! Seems so many on the left are blinded by their own self righteousness they cannot perceive the blatant political distortion of the "news", much less ask themselves questions like "who owns these enterprises" or "why would they do such a think".
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