Cure worse than the problem?

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TomCat88
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:43 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 2:17 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:06 am
A couple of questions I've been pondering the last couple days that maybe some of you could humor me.

We were told the whole goal of the extreme shelter in place guidelines and business closures was to flatten the curve. These measures were never intended to last until there was a cure. At least not that I'm aware of. It appears that in about 98% of the country we have done just that. Even in the hotspots we seem to be getting a handle of things. Why are we still being so slow getting back to normal?

In Montana especially, why are we dragging our feet so to speak. We're almost 2 weeks from being able to open and we still have next to no cases in the entire state. Even at our "peak" it was a blip on the radar. If we want to give 100% of the credit of this fact to "social distancing" that's fine, but it sure appears even with bars and restaurants open there was very little threat here. Why are we acting so slowly here. And what is the end goal? Seems to me they could force these measures on us for a very long time as there will always be a threat of the virus returning.

We were also told this isn't just about the deaths. This was the point consistently mentioned when those of us said that way more people will die of other ailments than they will this virus. It's NOT about the deaths...it's about our hospitals being overwhelmed. Ok. Tough to debunk that early on. Especially when they were scaring the crap out of everyone predicting millions of American deaths. But then that never came to fruition either. About 99.5% of our hospitals were never overwhelmed. Beds unused. Ventilators unused. Which brings me to my next big question. Wouldn't it make way more sense to just crank up production and preparation for hospitals while they work on a vaccine? Obviously we all know a vaccine is the ultimate goal. But if the main issue is hospitals being overwhelmed, why don't we make hospitals NOT being overwhelmed our #1 priority?

Finally, are we close to the point yet where those that are still very fearful can continue with all the restrictions and those not fearful can get on with things? That has remained a headscratcher for me. Would LOVE answers to that one! :wink:
This is such a great question and great point. The goalposts certainly seem to be moving now that we're on the backside of the "curve". The LA mayor said something to the effect of "we're staying shut down until there's a cure".
Cure?? First - that was never the goal here. It was only to flatten the curve to keep hospitals from being overrun. Second - there will probably NEVER be a cure. How many viruses have we ever found a cure for? My guess would be zero, but I honestly do not know. Maybe he meant to say "vaccine" rather than cure - but even that is no guarantee. We might find a somewhat effective vaccine, but that could take a long long time for mass distribution, and even that won't be 100% just like all other vaccines, flu shots etc.

I think the phased reopening approach is the best way to go, as long as we keep progressing forward with the reopenings.
I feel the same way.


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ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.


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RickRund
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by RickRund » Fri May 15, 2020 2:17 pm




ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.



TomCat88
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.
:lol:
I thought of you today:
I tried to go to lunch with four coworkers today. One a huge Trump fan, who has a share in a restaurant here. Everywhere we went or called was either only doing takeout or not open. The Trump guy was like (I’m paraphrasing) ‘these guys are screaming to be open, then they don’t open when they can!’ He was pissed. I was amazed. We bagged until next Friday.


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TomCat88
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Posts: 13881
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Fri May 15, 2020 11:09 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.


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TomCat88
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Posts: 13881
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Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Sat May 16, 2020 8:08 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:09 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.
:lol: :wink:


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TomCat88
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Sat May 16, 2020 8:14 am

Rock Hand hardware store was open at 7:30. I bought a magnet. At Bagel Co. now. Things are looking better today, but not sure on the more traditional restaurants and cafes.


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ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Sat May 16, 2020 9:28 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.
:lol:
I thought of you today:
I tried to go to lunch with four coworkers today. One a huge Trump fan, who has a share in a restaurant here. Everywhere we went or called was either only doing takeout or not open. The Trump guy was like (I’m paraphrasing) ‘these guys are screaming to be open, then they don’t open when they can!’ He was pissed. I was amazed. We bagged until next Friday.
I’ve seen some of that too. Here in Bozeman, and likely everywhere, it just doesn’t make sense to open lots of places with the restrictions and limitations in place. You still can’t sit at a bar and for some that’s 90% of their seating. You still have to be 50% capacity which means many places have zero chance of making money. You still can’t have more than 6 at a table so that obviously eliminates groups and even large families. Essentially these restrictions are still killing these businesses but give the illusion of safety of a slow open.

Speaking of which, bars and restaurants have been allowed to be open for 2 weeks now. Other businesses for three weeks. Curious as to why we haven’t seen a huge rise in cases? It’s odd.... :wink:



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RickRund
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by RickRund » Sat May 16, 2020 6:06 pm

Colorado revised their covid death totals...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/states-co ... 027020days



TomCat88
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Sat May 16, 2020 7:48 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:28 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.
:lol:
I thought of you today:
I tried to go to lunch with four coworkers today. One a huge Trump fan, who has a share in a restaurant here. Everywhere we went or called was either only doing takeout or not open. The Trump guy was like (I’m paraphrasing) ‘these guys are screaming to be open, then they don’t open when they can!’ He was pissed. I was amazed. We bagged until next Friday.
I’ve seen some of that too. Here in Bozeman, and likely everywhere, it just doesn’t make sense to open lots of places with the restrictions and limitations in place. You still can’t sit at a bar and for some that’s 90% of their seating. You still have to be 50% capacity which means many places have zero chance of making money. You still can’t have more than 6 at a table so that obviously eliminates groups and even large families. Essentially these restrictions are still killing these businesses but give the illusion of safety of a slow open.

Speaking of which, bars and restaurants have been allowed to be open for 2 weeks now. Other businesses for three weeks. Curious as to why we haven’t seen a huge rise in cases? It’s odd.... :wink:
Apparently Bullock said you can’t make out in bars. Why go out? :wink: :wink:


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ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Sat May 16, 2020 11:50 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:48 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:28 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.
:lol:
I thought of you today:
I tried to go to lunch with four coworkers today. One a huge Trump fan, who has a share in a restaurant here. Everywhere we went or called was either only doing takeout or not open. The Trump guy was like (I’m paraphrasing) ‘these guys are screaming to be open, then they don’t open when they can!’ He was pissed. I was amazed. We bagged until next Friday.
I’ve seen some of that too. Here in Bozeman, and likely everywhere, it just doesn’t make sense to open lots of places with the restrictions and limitations in place. You still can’t sit at a bar and for some that’s 90% of their seating. You still have to be 50% capacity which means many places have zero chance of making money. You still can’t have more than 6 at a table so that obviously eliminates groups and even large families. Essentially these restrictions are still killing these businesses but give the illusion of safety of a slow open.

Speaking of which, bars and restaurants have been allowed to be open for 2 weeks now. Other businesses for three weeks. Curious as to why we haven’t seen a huge rise in cases? It’s odd.... :wink:
Apparently Bullock said you can’t make out in bars. Why go out? :wink: :wink:
Don’t pay attention to politics. What does this mean?



ilovethecats
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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Sat May 16, 2020 11:51 pm

RickRund wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:06 pm
Colorado revised their covid death totals...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/states-co ... 027020days
They’ll be one of a ton of states to do this



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun May 17, 2020 6:51 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 11:50 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:48 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:28 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:54 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:40 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:42 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 pm
Wonder if we'll start seeing more and more of this kind of thing the longer this goes on. I have no issues with it but could get scary as the crazier people start stepping in.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/businesses-c ... 24076.html
It's 2020. It's the United States. It's what we've, as Montanans, been seeing from afar. It's what I think we'll continue seeing from afar. I expect better from Montanans. People from more populous states seem to blend in, but in Montana folks from both sides of the aisle seem to be able to talk people like that into cooling their jets. As you can tell, I'm kind of proud of how Montanans have handled this. We seem to be biting our lip and making sacrifices whether or not we agree with exactly how it's being handled. That's the Montanan and American way. Everyone doing what's best for the better good.
You won’t get an argument from me on anything you said. Though I don’t think the comparison is “fair” so to speak. Everything regarding this virus for Montanans has essentially been from afar. It’s absolutely nothing to us and likely never warranted any of these actions. But we took them based on science, predictions, and how terrible things looked in New York and the like.

So now that we see people on the other side of the aisle, fed up with these over the top rules of what we can and can’t do, taking a stand. Fighting back a bit if you will. And now these instances are from afar? I definitely think we could see these actions in Montana. I wouldn’t be surprised at all and I wouldn’t have an issue with it. But it seems unfair to take a stand that we’re all in it together when it comes to the virus, but Montana will stand alone in reaction to the virus.
From afar is a good perspective to view things. A good way to keep from making the same mistakes others make.

I highly doubt we see people pulling that kind of stuff in Montana and I think if we do it will be short-lived. I travel all over this state and meet with people from practically every county and reservation in Montana from practically every walk of life on about as regular a basis as someone can considering the size of Montana. I see my share of wing nuts on both sides of the aisle, but I also see who they're tied to and I believe those more centered people have enough influence to counter whatever over the top reactions might occur.
Yes I agree. We likely won’t in Montana. Though we had no chance of the virus effecting us here as New York either but that didn’t make a difference. We still took extreme measures. So I guess I wasn’t really talking about Montana as much as the nation as a whole. I see people getting really fed up with the overreaction.
:lol:
I thought of you today:
I tried to go to lunch with four coworkers today. One a huge Trump fan, who has a share in a restaurant here. Everywhere we went or called was either only doing takeout or not open. The Trump guy was like (I’m paraphrasing) ‘these guys are screaming to be open, then they don’t open when they can!’ He was pissed. I was amazed. We bagged until next Friday.
I’ve seen some of that too. Here in Bozeman, and likely everywhere, it just doesn’t make sense to open lots of places with the restrictions and limitations in place. You still can’t sit at a bar and for some that’s 90% of their seating. You still have to be 50% capacity which means many places have zero chance of making money. You still can’t have more than 6 at a table so that obviously eliminates groups and even large families. Essentially these restrictions are still killing these businesses but give the illusion of safety of a slow open.

Speaking of which, bars and restaurants have been allowed to be open for 2 weeks now. Other businesses for three weeks. Curious as to why we haven’t seen a huge rise in cases? It’s odd.... :wink:
Apparently Bullock said you can’t make out in bars. Why go out? :wink: :wink:
Don’t pay attention to politics. What does this mean?
Given the wink emoji, I thought you were being facetious. My comment is just an exaggeration for effect. Poorly played on my part. Since people aren’t going to bars to hook up, there’s no spread. That was a responses to what I perceived as a joke by you.

The reason there hasn’t been a spread after 2 weeks of being open is probably due to a lack of people who have coronavirus, the bars only being partially open and people not getting within close proximity of each other. Which could mean that Montana gave adequate time for the virus to settle down and out of the state. If there was already an outbreak, then it would’ve been too soon in those areas of the state that had the outbreaks.


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun May 17, 2020 7:07 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 11:51 pm
RickRund wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:06 pm
Colorado revised their covid death totals...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/states-co ... 027020days
They’ll be one of a ton of states to do this
While its great that the state officials in Colorado caught that and that you can’t rule anything out at this point, the general consensus is that there is an undercount. Mainly due to the fact that deaths are well beyond the norm even when c19 deaths are removed. In several areas, if c19 isn’t killing most of these people outside the norm, then you’d have to assume there’s another disease going around.

This article weighs both sides of the argument and has some good examples of people frustrated with some of the deaths that are counted. Most kind of relate to the thread I started about stolen days.

https://fox6now.com/2020/05/16/question ... eath-toll/


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by RickRund » Sun May 17, 2020 7:14 am

Just like "our ptotectors" over at facelessbook youtube needs to keep us free from opposing opinions so as not to cause confusion in the masses. We can't be turning to the right when they want us to only turn left.....

https://www.theblaze.com/news/youtube-r ... 027020days



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by RickRund » Sun May 17, 2020 7:22 am

So the next time the strain "X" of the flu strikes, which it does yearly with new and improved model, do we do a lockdown? Maybe have a planned two month shutdown of all activity on the calender every year? Kind of an exaggeration, but have we learned, been programmed, to fear everything that is possible to occur?



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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun May 17, 2020 7:35 am

RickRund wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:22 am
So the next time the strain "X" of the flu strikes, which it does yearly with new and improved model, do we do a lockdown? Maybe have a planned two month shutdown of all activity on the calender every year? Kind of an exaggeration, but have we learned, been programmed, to fear everything that is possible to occur?
Ahhh, the good old days of the flu-coronavirus comparisons. Thanks for the trip down Memory Lane! :wink:


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Re: Cure worse than the problem?

Post by ilovethecats » Sun May 17, 2020 8:10 am

RickRund wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:22 am
So the next time the strain "X" of the flu strikes, which it does yearly with new and improved model, do we do a lockdown? Maybe have a planned two month shutdown of all activity on the calender every year? Kind of an exaggeration, but have we learned, been programmed, to fear everything that is possible to occur?
Yep the door is open now. It’s clear what fear does and the control it gives. People didn’t blink being forced to stay home and stop working. What would stop this from happening again? And again?

It’s been crazy but fascinating to me how willing people were to give up all rights with the belief they were the sole reason for saving lives. After all, we were told millions of Americans would die! It’s the only possible explanation as to why a fraction of a sliver of those predictions came true. No other possible explanation! :lol:



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