Trump shout out

[catsrback76]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

They donate to Trump PAC's!

[77matcat]

45 lost the 413 million given him by his father Fred (take some time and read all you can about Fred) and ran corrupt school and charity.

Rex believes 45 is a f- - ken moran. Gotta say I’m going with Rex.

This is literally Fake News, but whatever, Trump is so far in some people’s heads that all rationality gets lost and we just get noise. Keep watching Maddow.

Also, Rex Tillerson? The worst Secretary of State in US history.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.co ... department

Rex Tillerson has been fired. Experts say he did damage that could last “a generation.”

Tillerson was “one of the worst secretaries of state” in modern history, according to experts from across the political spectrum.
By Zack Beauchamp on March 13, 2018 8:54 am

Fake News. Interesting new 45 concept to sell his alternative universe. Or, put another way by Kellyanne alternative facts.


Rex wasn’t a career politician so he wasn’t going to play the PR game like pros. He did try to cut (gut) the Dept by 30% like 45 asked. Being short staffed, trying to learn the job and keep 45 in check (told 45 he couldn’t break the law) made it tough for him to look successful.

Tillerson didn't have "any chance of succeeding” said Aaron David Miller, a vice president at the Wilson Center and a former State Department adviser to both Republican and Democratic secretaries of state. Miller said that Tillerson was doomed to fail because he was never empowered by Trump. "And not only did Trump not empower him, he disempowered him," Miller added. "He disempowered him by allowing a thousand flowers to bloom: Jared Kushner became the point person on the Arab-Israeli issue. Gary Cohn got what remained of climate change. Jim Mattis … is running three wars. Nikki Haley was basically talking about everything that a secretary of state would have talked about."

"Not only did Trump not empower Tillerson, he disempowered him."

Rex may not have been the best SState, but that has nothing to do with the original post that speaks of 45s experience prior his presidential gig and Rex’s experience prior to the Sec State gig and his assessment of 45.

[Norsky19]

I always love people that complain about Trump. If they looked at their bottom line right now, they should thank Trump. If their bottom line isn’t good right now, chances are they were outsourcing and paying cheap labor, and on top of that they were probably thinking they were saving the world going green even though they weren’t. Instead they were paying a 15 year old in a third world country to push their product. Don’t even get me started on clean water or rivers.

How are all your 401ks or individual investments doing since Trump?

The left is funny.

This! Little by little becoming Boz Angeles.......

[Norsky19]

I wonder who all these people are that are doing so well since Trump got elected...it sure hasn't trickled down to me. Have these people actually seen an increase in their income, or is it just because Trump told them they are doing better?

Well, if you file taxes there's about an 85% you're better off and are paying less in tax under Trump than under previous presidents. After the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect, the IRS published statistics that 85% of taxpayers would see their taxes go down, 10% would remain unchanged, and 5% would see their taxes go up.

Tax rates actually dropped. Five of the the seven tax brackets dropped by 1%, 3%, 3%, 4%, 1%, and 2.6%. The two brackets that didn't drop stayed the same.

2017 Tax Brackets
2018 Tax Brackets

It is mathematically impossible for the amount of tax you pay as a percent of your income to go up when the statutorily enacted rates go down. If you don't understand how lower tax rates lead to a lower overall tax burden, then there's probably no explanation that will help. If your taxes went up, then you are a 1%-er or you made more money and climbed brackets. I thought taxing 1%-ers was a good thing. Is that not the case anymore?

Maybe you'd be so kind to tell us your tax bracket?

The Obamacare penalty is still in effect, but for 2019 has dropped from $695 to $0. If you'd like, I can show you how to use a calculator to see which is better -- paying $695, or $0.

Your claim just doesn't stand up to even a minimal amount of scrutiny. Maybe whoever did your taxes last year fouled something up, I don't know. Maybe you did your own and fouled them up. I'd be more than happy to do a review for you if you think you got jobbed.

My Brokerage account is up 42%
401k up 23%
Pension...rolling along
Used additional dividends to reinvest and pay off mortgage....
All since 2017, so yeah....I'm doing very well under deregulation and lower taxes. Thanks!
And my Iranian friends LOVE Trump.

[77matcat]

Here’s an interesting site.

Compares stock Mkt performance under different presidents. You can add or subtract presidents.



https://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock- ... -president

[RickRund]

Please post any policies/legislation pushed by president obama that brought about the worst recovery on record...

[John K]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

[RickRund]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

[John K]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

[RickRund]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

[John K]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

[arvcat2]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

After reading that manifesto:
1. No way in h#ll you’re a moderate republican or even an independent.
2. “Basic rules for Discussing the Issues board” will prohibit me from further commenting about your post.

[RickRund]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

After reading that manifesto:
1. No way in h#ll you’re a moderate republican or even an independent.
2. “Basic rules for Discussing the Issues board” will prohibit me from further commenting about your post.

Oh heck John K, I do not agree with everything he says. There are times I wished he would rephrase his comments. I do though agree with the vast majority of his policies; Sanctity of Human Life, him being the first president to participate in the March for Sanctity of Human Life, his support of the Military, Law Enforcement, border security, support for Israel and the embassy in Jerusalem, the justice reform, defense of Christianity, his love of America. I do not agree with his budget stance although that is shared with congress. That is why I am a big Tea Party and Freedom Caucus fan. Would love to see a big majority of those in congress.
Amazing how we can hear the same conversation and come away with such different opinions. That is how it is with witness accounts of a crime.

[wbtfg]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

After reading that manifesto:
1. No way in h#ll you’re a moderate republican or even an independent.
2. “Basic rules for Discussing the Issues board” will prohibit me from further commenting about your post.

Oh heck John K, I do not agree with everything he says. There are times I wished he would rephrase his comments. I do though agree with the vast majority of his policies; Sanctity of Human Life, him being the first president to participate in the March for Sanctity of Human Life, his support of the Military, Law Enforcement, border security, support for Israel and the embassy in Jerusalem, the justice reform, defense of Christianity, his love of America. I do not agree with his budget stance although that is shared with congress. That is why I am a big Tea Party and Freedom Caucus fan. Would love to see a big majority of those in congress.
Amazing how we can hear the same conversation and come away with such different opinions. That is how it is with witness accounts of a crime.

Do you think trump is truly a practicing Christian, or do you think he just plays one on television to pander to the evangelical vote?

[RickRund]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

After reading that manifesto:
1. No way in h#ll you’re a moderate republican or even an independent.
2. “Basic rules for Discussing the Issues board” will prohibit me from further commenting about your post.

Oh heck John K, I do not agree with everything he says. There are times I wished he would rephrase his comments. I do though agree with the vast majority of his policies; Sanctity of Human Life, him being the first president to participate in the March for Sanctity of Human Life, his support of the Military, Law Enforcement, border security, support for Israel and the embassy in Jerusalem, the justice reform, defense of Christianity, his love of America. I do not agree with his budget stance although that is shared with congress. That is why I am a big Tea Party and Freedom Caucus fan. Would love to see a big majority of those in congress.
Amazing how we can hear the same conversation and come away with such different opinions. That is how it is with witness accounts of a crime.

Do you think trump is truly a practicing Christian, or do you think he just plays one on television to pander to the evangelical vote?

That is not for me to judge. I just pray that he is legit, just liking where his heart seems to be.
Our old Pastor in norcal was a raging alcoholic, was saved outside a bar in Stead Nv and was on fire from day one. Our Pastor here was dealing drugs, was involved in some shady stuff and from the day he was saved has been on fire. He is now a biblical scholar. I was saved in 1983 and it was just in the last 10 years that I really caught on and became serious. Some catch it fast while others will struggle for a lifetime. Just remember that we all are always not close to perfect. So again just praying for Trump to be growing each day. Really do not like the idea that one of his biblical advisors is a woman. That IS NOT biblical. Time will tell.

[wbtfg]

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

After reading that manifesto:
1. No way in h#ll you’re a moderate republican or even an independent.
2. “Basic rules for Discussing the Issues board” will prohibit me from further commenting about your post.

Oh heck John K, I do not agree with everything he says. There are times I wished he would rephrase his comments. I do though agree with the vast majority of his policies; Sanctity of Human Life, him being the first president to participate in the March for Sanctity of Human Life, his support of the Military, Law Enforcement, border security, support for Israel and the embassy in Jerusalem, the justice reform, defense of Christianity, his love of America. I do not agree with his budget stance although that is shared with congress. That is why I am a big Tea Party and Freedom Caucus fan. Would love to see a big majority of those in congress.
Amazing how we can hear the same conversation and come away with such different opinions. That is how it is with witness accounts of a crime.

Do you think trump is truly a practicing Christian, or do you think he just plays one on television to pander to the evangelical vote?

That is not for me to judge. I just pray that he is legit, just liking where his heart seems to be.
Our old Pastor in norcal was a raging alcoholic, was saved outside a bar in Stead Nv and was on fire from day one. Our Pastor here was dealing drugs, was involved in some shady stuff and from the day he was saved has been on fire. He is now a biblical scholar. I was saved in 1983 and it was just in the last 10 years that I really caught on and became serious. Some catch it fast while others will struggle for a lifetime. Just remember that we all are always not close to perfect. So again just praying for Trump to be growing each day. Really do not like the idea that one of his biblical advisors is a woman. That IS NOT biblical. Time will tell.

“We command all satanic pregnancies to miscarry right now” — Special Adviser to the White House Faith and Opportunity Initiative Paula White

That lady is crayyyyyyyyyzeeeeee

[RickRund]

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

So true John K..... All this money should be going to the Clinton Foundation where it can be put to use on helpful issues...

So that makes Trump's fraud OK? Remind me to use that defense if/when I ever get in any sort of legal trouble. I'm curious to see how well that works out for me? "Your honor, you have to drop the charges, because look at all the bad stuff Hilary Clinton did".

Just wanted to see if you had a double standard... "Trump denied that the organization had done anything wrong. In late 2016, he said he wanted to close the foundation before he became president to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest. But the New York attorney general blocked that move while the investigation continued." I notice the Clinton foundation HAS NOT shut down. Do you feel it is a fraud and should be closed?

I'm not gonna argue with you about double standards, since Republicans seem to have written the book on double standards, considering how much higher their bar for impeachable offenses is now, as compared to 20 years ago. It's laughable to hear some of the things people like Lindsay Graham said back then, compared to what they're saying now. I readily admit that I don't know all the details about the wrongdoings of the Clinton Foundation or the Trump Foundation, but neither of the Clintons are currently residing in the White House, and neither of them are being held up as champions of anti-corruption, the way Trump is being portrayed by his cronies. I really don't know how anyone can say with a straight face, that Trump held up aid to Ukraine because he is so concerned about corruption. He has a history of fraud and corruption throughout his entire business career...but of course he was well trained in that by daddy. I notice you didn't have a rebuttal regarding the $20 million penalty levied against him for defrauding students who enrolled in his phony university.

Before you label me as some radical left wing libtard socialist, you should know that I would nave voted for almost any of the 2016 Republican candidates over Hillary, except for Trump or Ted Cruz probably. Even if you support his policies 100%, and even if you want to give him all the credit for the strong economy, I just don't understand how you can overlook his multitude of character defects. A guy who derided John McCain for being captured by the enemy, when he avoided service because of bone spurs. A guy who mocked a disabled journalist. A guy who has boasted about "grabbing women by the p***y". A guy who has cheated on every one of his wives, even while one of them was giving birth to their child. A guy who thinks none of the rules apply to him. A guy who has surrounded himself with convicted felons like Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Micheal Cohen, Michael Flynn, George Popadopoulos,and Rick Gates. I mean how many presidents have had 6 people in their orbit convicted of felonies, less than 3 years after taking office? And it's probably just a matter of time for Rudy too. If you're judged by the company you keep, then Trump should be judged pretty harshly. Of course, once they get into legal trouble, then suddenly Trump doesn't even remember their name anymore.

I especially can't understand how a guy like that has such strong support among evangelicals. He hasn't exactly been a paragon of Christian virtue throughout his life. Can you really hold him up to your kids or grandkids, as a man to be admired...a man you'd want them to emulate? I know I'd be ashamed of him, if he was one of my relatives, and I certainly wouldn't want a guy like that as a friend. I'd be greatly disappointed if any of my friends or family members were so disrespectful to other people, just because they were a Griz fan maybe, or because they had different political beliefs, or were of a different faith, or disagreed with them about whatever it may be. Trump's scorched earth "you're either with us or against us" approach is really damaging not only to the political climate, but to our culture and society in general. Not to mention the harm he's done to our relationships with our closest international allies. He's like a schoolyard bully, and he has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler. Maybe those things aren't sufficient for him to be removed from office, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can think a man like that is worthy of holding the highest office in the land. Remember when John McCain called out that woman for calling Obama a communist, and he said (paraphrasing) "no ma'am...you're wrong. He's not a communist. I just happen to have some fundamental policy differences with him". That's the kind of behavior we should expect from our leaders. Bush 43 and Obama both had their faults, and made plenty of mistakes during their presidencies, and had lots of detractors, but they were both good and decent men who for the most part treated even their most bitter political rivals with respect. With Trump though, anyone who disagrees with him about anything, even some things that are relatively insignificant, is subject to his wrath, including a torrent of petty and insulting tweets. Do you really not think we should expect better behavior than that from the leader of our country, and the man who represents the USA to the rest of the world?

Are you also going to defend people like Marsha Blackburn, after the way she impugned Purple Heart winner Alexander Vindman? You can criticize him if you want, but to accuse him of being unpatriotic, after he put his life on the line for our country, is just despicable, especially considering her undying loyalty to "bone spur boy". People like her take their cue from Trump though....anything goes when it comes to retaliating against his perceived enemies. Tell me Rick, are you among the horde of conservatives who blasted Bill Clinton for being a draft dodger, but who hasn't uttered a single word of criticism towards Trump for avoiding service...a man who allegedly said "do you think I'm stupid? I"m not going to Vietnam", when asked if he could provide any medical records to support his deferment.

I know I said it before, but this really is my last post in this thread. I know I'll never change anyone's mind about our Con Artist-In-Chief, so it seems pointless to waste any more of my time trying. It seems like it's really true that for his diehard base, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in Manhattan, and they'd still support him. As much as I despise Trump, even I'm a little bit on the fence about whether his actions rise to the level of impeachment, just because the whole concept is so nebulous and subjective and loosely defined. But I can't fathom how anyone can continue to claim that he didn't do anything wrong, even if you don't think it's impeachable.

After reading that manifesto:
1. No way in h#ll you’re a moderate republican or even an independent.
2. “Basic rules for Discussing the Issues board” will prohibit me from further commenting about your post.

Oh heck John K, I do not agree with everything he says. There are times I wished he would rephrase his comments. I do though agree with the vast majority of his policies; Sanctity of Human Life, him being the first president to participate in the March for Sanctity of Human Life, his support of the Military, Law Enforcement, border security, support for Israel and the embassy in Jerusalem, the justice reform, defense of Christianity, his love of America. I do not agree with his budget stance although that is shared with congress. That is why I am a big Tea Party and Freedom Caucus fan. Would love to see a big majority of those in congress.
Amazing how we can hear the same conversation and come away with such different opinions. That is how it is with witness accounts of a crime.

Do you think trump is truly a practicing Christian, or do you think he just plays one on television to pander to the evangelical vote?

That is not for me to judge. I just pray that he is legit, just liking where his heart seems to be.
Our old Pastor in norcal was a raging alcoholic, was saved outside a bar in Stead Nv and was on fire from day one. Our Pastor here was dealing drugs, was involved in some shady stuff and from the day he was saved has been on fire. He is now a biblical scholar. I was saved in 1983 and it was just in the last 10 years that I really caught on and became serious. Some catch it fast while others will struggle for a lifetime. Just remember that we all are always not close to perfect. So again just praying for Trump to be growing each day. Really do not like the idea that one of his biblical advisors is a woman. That IS NOT biblical. Time will tell.

“We command all satanic pregnancies to miscarry right now” — Special Adviser to the White House Faith and Opportunity Initiative Paula White

That lady is crayyyyyyyyyzeeeeee

Never heard that quote. Don't know much about her or guess should say don't want to know much about her. Yep, pretty crazy.

[codecat]

I thought the national recognition was pretty neat too. Since him and Steve appear to be best buds, perhaps Steve could get him to write us a big fat check? MSU took Gianforte's money...let's take Trump's too! I could care less who writes checks...Steve - if you are reading this, get us that indoor practice facility!

Does his charitable foundation donate to colleges and universities?

His charitable foundation just got nailed for a multi million dollar fine, because it donates money primarily to the Trump family and the Trump campaign. Trump University also got hit for $20 million for fraud. That's about the only connection you can make between his foundation and colleges and universities. Too bad he's not as concerned about corruption in his own little corner of the world as he is about corruption in Ukraine. I know I said I wasn't gonna post anything more in this thread, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

In that case, if they keep going, they might match the Clinton foundation and be exempt from being investigated for buying favors from world leaders.

[Rich K]

Interesting tidbit about Elizabeth Warren. She was payed big bucks as a contractor to work for the government rewriting bankruptcy laws. After she did that she was for hire to corporations to very specifically navigate around those same bankruptcy laws, making about $1000 per hour and raking in millions while settlements between corporations were in the billions of dollars. Quite the rainmaker.

[77matcat]

Interesting tidbit about Elizabeth Warren. She was payed big bucks as a contractor to work for the government rewriting bankruptcy laws. After she did that she was for hire to corporations to very specifically navigate around those same bankruptcy laws, making about $1000 per hour and raking in millions while settlements between corporations were in the billions of dollars. Quite the rainmaker.

Please provide your source. Not that I doubt you. Would be nice to read detail.