Bush is Exonerated!

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grizgirl
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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by grizgirl » Thu May 14, 2009 4:08 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:If you are not playing by the rules the enemy is playing by, you are not compromising anything but victory. - AG1-2009
If only you'd do that, the board would be a lot less interesting.



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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by Grizlaw » Thu May 14, 2009 4:39 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:If you are not playing by the rules the enemy is playing by, you are not compromising anything but victory. - AG1-2009
So you think we're going to lose the war unless we start kidnapping Afghanistani journalists and cutting off their heads?


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Thu May 14, 2009 5:30 pm

Isn't this "quagmire" the media and you lib types beat into the airways, just like Vietnam?

Anything is possible especially when most of the people in this country dont want to defend this country anymore cause we would look bad in the eyes of the world. :roll:


Fu*k the rest of the world.


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by Grizlaw » Thu May 14, 2009 10:38 pm

So was that a "yes," or a "no"?


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Fri May 15, 2009 7:46 am

In a war I personally dont care what we do to anyone on the other side.

In times of peace I agree we shouldnt go out and torture anyone because that would make the whole peace thing, well not peaceful.

But in times of war I want to put the hurt on the people we are facing in ways only sadistic MF'ers do in movies. I mean such brutality Genghis Khan would swallow hard and step aside. Where is our Rape of Nanking?

There are no rules in war if you want to win.


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by SonomaCat » Fri May 15, 2009 8:37 am

AlphaGriz1 wrote:In a war I personally dont care what we do to anyone on the other side.

In times of peace I agree we shouldnt go out and torture anyone because that would make the whole peace thing, well not peaceful.

But in times of war I want to put the hurt on the people we are facing in ways only sadistic MF'ers do in movies. I mean such brutality Genghis Khan would swallow hard and step aside. Where is our Rape of Nanking?

There are no rules in war if you want to win.
But in the movies, don't the bad guys (the ones who torture are almost always bad guys) always lose the war? Don't the white hats always win? :wink:



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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Fri May 15, 2009 8:53 am

Seven

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114369/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by Toucat » Fri May 15, 2009 3:03 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:In a war I personally dont care what we do to anyone on the other side.

In times of peace I agree we shouldnt go out and torture anyone because that would make the whole peace thing, well not peaceful.

But in times of war I want to put the hurt on the people we are facing in ways only sadistic MF'ers do in movies. I mean such brutality Genghis Khan would swallow hard and step aside. Where is our Rape of Nanking?

There are no rules in war if you want to win.
I know AG’s quote was probably made somewhat tongue in cheek, but I still thought I’d respond.

I am retired from the US Army with 31 years of service. During my career my wife and I had numerous conversations concerning the rules of warfare, and she could never understand why in war there were rules. Much like AG’s statement, she could not grasp why the US would not do everything possible to win. I was never able to adequately explain to my wife why I thought there should be rules so I’m sure I will be unable to do so here, but I’ll try.

To serve in the military, especially if you make it a career, you have to believe in a cause greater than yourself. You can call it defending the American way of life, freedom, our principles, morals and ethics, or whatever, but whatever you call it in your mind there is something that distinguishes the US from its enemies, and makes it worth defending. Without having those beliefs how can you ever justify putting yourself in harm’s way? At least for me, the rules of warfare are a direct extension of my beliefs regarding what the US stands for. There are certain things US soldiers shall not do regardless of the consequences, which includes the prohibition against torturing enemy prisoners. We're better than that and we are defending our nation against those who may not share our moral beliefs.

I’m certain there are many military personnel who might not agree, but I also know that many of my colleges were as upset as I was when the definition of torture was supposedly changed to no longer include waterboarding. My concern was not that the defintion changed, but that 911 changed our values as a nation as to what is acceptable conduct by US forces. In my opinion, if we accept waterboarding as an acceptable form of interrogation we lose more as a nation, in the form of relinquishing our values, than we will ever gain in the form of information.



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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by grizgirl » Fri May 15, 2009 3:17 pm

Toucat wrote: I know AG’s quote was probably made somewhat tongue in cheek, but I still thought I’d respond.

I am retired from the US Army with 31 years of service. During my career my wife and I had numerous conversations concerning the rules of warfare, and she could never understand why in war there were rules. Much like AG’s statement, she could not grasp why the US would not do everything possible to win. I was never able to adequately explain to my wife why I thought there should be rules so I’m sure I will be unable to do so here, but I’ll try.

To serve in the military, especially if you make it a career, you have to believe in a cause greater than yourself. You can call it defending the American way of life, freedom, our principles, morals and ethics, or whatever, but whatever you call it in your mind there is something that distinguishes the US from its enemies, and makes it worth defending. Without having those beliefs how can you ever justify putting yourself in harm’s way? At least for me, the rules of warfare are a direct extension of my beliefs regarding what the US stands for. There are certain things US soldiers shall not do regardless of the consequences, which includes the prohibition against torturing enemy prisoners. We're better than that and we are defending our nation against those who may not share our moral beliefs.

I’m certain there are many military personnel who might not agree, but I also know that many of my colleges were as upset as I was when the definition of torture was supposedly changed to no longer include waterboarding. My concern was not that the defintion changed, but that 911 changed our values as a nation as to what is acceptable conduct by US forces. In my opinion, if we accept waterboarding as an acceptable form of interrogation we lose more as a nation, in the form of relinquishing our values, than we will ever gain in the form of information.
Awesome post! =D^ =D^ You wife is a lucky lady. Hopefully there are lots of people like you in our military.



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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by SonomaCat » Fri May 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Eloquent and extremely insightful. Thank you for posting that, Toucat.



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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by GrizinWashington » Fri May 15, 2009 3:31 pm

Thank you Toucat, for so eloquently conveying what I have been unable to in this thread. A terrific post.

And thank you for your service to our Nation. We appreciate it more than you know.


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by ChiOCat » Fri May 15, 2009 4:38 pm

Thank you Toucat, for your explanation and your service!


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by Grizlaw » Fri May 15, 2009 5:11 pm

I don't generally post just to say "good post," but in this case I'll make an exception. Thanks toucat.


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Re: Bush is Exonerated!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Fri May 15, 2009 11:59 pm

Yeah good post and I completely understand where you are coming from.

BUT


I still stand by my comments.


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