Schweyen out at Montana

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BobcatDel
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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:09 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:01 pm
rivercat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:33 pm
BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:23 pm
mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.


What do you mean by this? in discussion with the players for two years?..does that mean the players are running the program? If the President and AD were going around my back as a coach I would have quit day 1 that I found out about it....AD needs to have my back as a coach. In fact, if I was a new coach coming in and found out the AD was going to be “coaching around“ me I wouldn’t take the job....”here have at it Mr. Haslam you coach em up.”. The AD and President better be supporting me as a coach or confronting me directly if they don’t like my progress in terms of culture or program success on the court and classroom. And if the AD is caught offguard, then perhaps the AD should be terminated because he/she is clueless what is going on in the program.

As a coach, I have to be able to coach in a manner that fits my style....and that may mean I will weed out players that don’t want to play up to my expectations and I may use a style different than my predecessor. The first year or two some of the former recruits may not get the court time they got under a prior coach. I always say by year 3 a new coach should be showing the success from their style and their recruits.

Now if it was a case of abuse or threats or physical harm that’s a different matter.....and I understand the need to go around a coach to complain. If that was the case, as an AD I would investigate immediately and terminate the coach immediately if true....not after two years.......

But if it is a coaching style and technique thing...then as an AD and President you better be supporting me and get rid of me when I don’t deliver the results you expect or the goals you set for me when you hired me.
I think you need to reread mslacat's posts. He's not saying there was a nefarious conspiracy involving the players, AD, and Pres against Shannon. My take is that the unusual number of defections from the program has been a concern that the players have discussed with the AD. Fact is, in 4 years, the lady griz graduated 5 players vs having 18 players leave in that time frame. Second fact, the AD's job is not to blindly support a coach. If there are issue in a program, the AD's job is figure out what is going on, try to mitigate the problem, and finally make decisions on whether a coaching change is needed. It is an unfortunate situation over the hill and I feel for Shannon but would have made the same decision as Haslam.
I reread twice and still don’t know what he means so will let him/her explain.

I stand by my comment, if players are complaining about my style it is not up to the AD to over coach me but to support me. If it involves abuse, threats, physical harm it is my job as AD to fire you. And it IS MY JOB as AD to know what is going on in the program and take corrective action if you as coach are not meeting the goals I set for you when you took the job. I can guarantee Costello is at enough practices and meetings (I have seen him there) that he sees and knows what is going on in the women’s basketball program and I guarantee he knows how the ladies are doing scholastically....and if not meeting Scholastic expectations or behavior expectations, he is having the discussions with Binford to get it corrected......not the team. And if as AD you offer me a two year contract and then pull it back, it tells me about your ethics and I really don’t care to be there anyway.

That being said, if you are truly correct that ONLY 5 kids graduated in 4 years, then I would fire both the AD and the Coach. My future AD would know what I expect in academics and performance. If you are going to turn around an institution you don’t accept this at any level of leadership......you think Cruzado would accept that from an AD in 4 years? I suspect she would have been sitting across the table with Shannon and Haslam two years ago looking them in the eyeballs telling them to get it fixed or she will get it fixed.




rivercat
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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by rivercat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:48 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:01 pm
rivercat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:33 pm
BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:23 pm
mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.


What do you mean by this? in discussion with the players for two years?..does that mean the players are running the program? If the President and AD were going around my back as a coach I would have quit day 1 that I found out about it....AD needs to have my back as a coach. In fact, if I was a new coach coming in and found out the AD was going to be “coaching around“ me I wouldn’t take the job....”here have at it Mr. Haslam you coach em up.”. The AD and President better be supporting me as a coach or confronting me directly if they don’t like my progress in terms of culture or program success on the court and classroom. And if the AD is caught offguard, then perhaps the AD should be terminated because he/she is clueless what is going on in the program.

As a coach, I have to be able to coach in a manner that fits my style....and that may mean I will weed out players that don’t want to play up to my expectations and I may use a style different than my predecessor. The first year or two some of the former recruits may not get the court time they got under a prior coach. I always say by year 3 a new coach should be showing the success from their style and their recruits.

Now if it was a case of abuse or threats or physical harm that’s a different matter.....and I understand the need to go around a coach to complain. If that was the case, as an AD I would investigate immediately and terminate the coach immediately if true....not after two years.......

But if it is a coaching style and technique thing...then as an AD and President you better be supporting me and get rid of me when I don’t deliver the results you expect or the goals you set for me when you hired me.
I think you need to reread mslacat's posts. He's not saying there was a nefarious conspiracy involving the players, AD, and Pres against Shannon. My take is that the unusual number of defections from the program has been a concern that the players have discussed with the AD. Fact is, in 4 years, the lady griz graduated 5 players vs having 18 players leave in that time frame. Second fact, the AD's job is not to blindly support a coach. If there are issue in a program, the AD's job is figure out what is going on, try to mitigate the problem, and finally make decisions on whether a coaching change is needed. It is an unfortunate situation over the hill and I feel for Shannon but would have made the same decision as Haslam.
I reread twice and still don’t know what he means so will let him/her explain.

I stand by my comment, if players are complaining about my style it is not up to the AD to over coach me but to support me. If it involves abuse, threats, physical harm it is my job as AD to fire you. And it IS MY JOB as AD to know what is going on in the program and take corrective action if you as coach are not meeting the goals I set for you when you took the job. I can guarantee Costello is at enough practices and meetings (I have seen him there) that he sees and knows what is going on in the women’s basketball program and I guarantee he knows how the ladies are doing scholastically....and if not meeting Scholastic expectations or behavior expectations, he is having the discussions with Binford to get it corrected......not the team. And if as AD you offer me a two year contract and then pull it back, it tells me about your ethics and I really don’t care to be there anyway.

That being said, if you are truly correct that ONLY 5 kids graduated in 4 years, then I would fire both the AD and the Coach. My future AD would know what I expect in academics and performance. If you are going to turn around an institution you don’t accept this at any level of leadership......you think Cruzado would accept that from an AD in 4 years?
Look, it was a really tough situation. They have a coach that was the best athlete to ever play for that university and is a MT native. She was a long time assistant to the greatest coach in MT ever in any sport at any level. Shannon was the heir apparent when Selvig retired. Her first couple of years were plagued with injuries. The last 2 years didn't meet expectations in terms of success plus there were a lot of player turnover. Adding to the tangle of her history with um, her husband is the head track and field coach and 2 of her daughters are on the roster. Wow, that is an AD's worst nightmare. That said, Haslam did hire Shannon so only fair he had to deal with it.

My guess is that Haslam did tell Shannon that she would get a 2 year extension and then 2 more veterans announce they are leaving the team. That changed everything.

I'm not advocating for the coach, AD or Pres of um. I am shaking my head at how bad a situation it was. In my opinion, the lady griz under achieved these last 2 years. And that was fine by me!


"...get in 21 personnel and pound people and take their souls and have fun doing that..." coach Choate

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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:57 pm

You guys are waaaaaay off. But carry on I guess.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by rivercat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:04 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:57 pm
You guys are waaaaaay off. But carry on I guess.
Great, the old "I got a secret" post. Carry on I guess.


"...get in 21 personnel and pound people and take their souls and have fun doing that..." coach Choate

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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by TomCat88 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:16 am

rivercat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:04 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:57 pm
You guys are waaaaaay off. But carry on I guess.
Great, the old "I got a secret" post. Carry on I guess.
The waaaaay off part is the nice way of saying you’re not spending your time wisely, which in turn is the nice way saying you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The but carry on part is the nice way of saying, keep wasting your time because it’s entertaining.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by 91catAlum » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:42 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:16 am
rivercat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:04 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:57 pm
You guys are waaaaaay off. But carry on I guess.
Great, the old "I got a secret" post. Carry on I guess.
The waaaaay off part is the nice way of saying you’re not spending your time wisely, which in turn is the nice way saying you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The but carry on part is the nice way of saying, keep wasting your time because it’s entertaining.
Why don't you enlighten us then? Is it really a big secret now that Shannon is out?


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by TomCat88 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:02 am

91catAlum wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:42 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:16 am
rivercat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:04 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:57 pm
You guys are waaaaaay off. But carry on I guess.
Great, the old "I got a secret" post. Carry on I guess.
The waaaaay off part is the nice way of saying you’re not spending your time wisely, which in turn is the nice way saying you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The but carry on part is the nice way of saying, keep wasting your time because it’s entertaining.
Why don't you enlighten us then? Is it really a big secret now that Shannon is out?
And ruin all our fun?


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by imacat » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:54 pm

Sounds like the instate recruits are not changing their plans.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... 97310.html



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by imacat » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:00 pm

A Bill Speltz article on the firing.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... 30feb.html



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Colter_Nuanez » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:30 pm

imacat wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:54 pm
Sounds like the instate recruits are not changing their plans.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... 97310.html
Kyndal Keller, Karsen Murphy and Willa Albrecht already signed in the fall so they can't change plans until at least semester even if they wanted to. None had any other D-I offers. L'Tia Lawrence decommitted from MSU-Northern literally the day before Shannon was fired. She will sign this month but also had no other D-I offers. Dani Bartsch, who's twin sister Paige is the best volleyball player in the state and committed to Boise State, said she still intends to sign in the fall. That will be the one UM has to fight to hold on to.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Colter_Nuanez » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:57 pm

Our initial take on the Shannon Schweyen non-renewal

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/t ... 0470351846



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by WalkOn79 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:39 am

Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:30 pm
imacat wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:54 pm
Sounds like the instate recruits are not changing their plans.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... 97310.html
Kyndal Keller, Karsen Murphy and Willa Albrecht already signed in the fall so they can't change plans until at least semester even if they wanted to. None had any other D-I offers. L'Tia Lawrence decommitted from MSU-Northern literally the day before Shannon was fired. She will sign this month but also had no other D-I offers. Dani Bartsch, who's twin sister Paige is the best volleyball player in the state and committed to Boise State, said she still intends to sign in the fall. That will be the one UM has to fight to hold on to.
Yet during the tournament, Redpath couldn't stop commenting on the fact that MSU only had one Montana kid on their roster. I would rather pick the right Montana kids vs. just flooding a roster just to say you're winning the in-state battle. I trust Coach Bin in this process!


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by bpcats20 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:42 pm

Does signing two Griz legacy players and Forsyth girl for 2021 class count?



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by mslacat » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:45 pm

WalkOn79 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:39 am
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:30 pm
imacat wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:54 pm
Sounds like the instate recruits are not changing their plans.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... 97310.html
Kyndal Keller, Karsen Murphy and Willa Albrecht already signed in the fall so they can't change plans until at least semester even if they wanted to. None had any other D-I offers. L'Tia Lawrence decommitted from MSU-Northern literally the day before Shannon was fired. She will sign this month but also had no other D-I offers. Dani Bartsch, who's twin sister Paige is the best volleyball player in the state and committed to Boise State, said she still intends to sign in the fall. That will be the one UM has to fight to hold on to.
Yet during the tournament, Redpath couldn't stop commenting on the fact that MSU only had one Montana kid on their roster. I would rather pick the right Montana kids vs. just flooding a roster just to say you're winning the in-state battle. I trust Coach Bin in this process!
There was a time about ten years ago when you could stock your team with 100% all Montana Players and destroy the league. That was when Redpath was a player. I remember one year the Griz's entire roster was Montana players and they dominated the Big Sky! That year their Bobcats had 6-7 Montana players themselves on their roster. These are not those times anymore. I would be if you took every current Montana women's D-1 players from across the nation and put them on a Big Sky team you would have a team no better than the Griz this year, if lucky. Just like in the men's game the number of D-1 Montana basketball players have twiddled. There are still 2 or 3 D-1 women's players every year but nothing like to 80's. 90's and early 00's when colleges would sign 5, 6 or 7 who signed D-1 LOI. Binford now has the luxury of being selective with her recruiting. She is getting recruits committing 1 to 2 years in advance. The Griz signed 5 or 6 Montana Women this year, but ignored a couple very good looking legacy prospects that the Bobcats snatched up. I will say this, there were a couple Griz signees whom Binford was interested in and a couple that she was not at all. Binford recruits players who can run the floor, and shoot. If she thinks a player will slow down the team she has very little interested, so she is picky to a degree. Another thing I have noticed about Binford , for good or bad,is that she will shy away from player that have injury problems. Now if a player, commits or signs with the Bobcats and then gets injured (IE Kola Bad Bear and others) She supports them 100%. She has over looked a few Montana players she thought were injury prone and taken some heat for it! She was usually right though.

The Ladygriz program is riding on Robin Selvig's legacy but high school players are a fickle bunch in a few years time none of the Montana High school players will really care where Selvig coached, they are going to be looking at who is winning the Big Sky conference now. Who is that revered college coach in Montana. The coach is going to be Binford and the go to program is gong to be the Bobcats. The last 4 years the Lady Griz have pissed away a lot of their moxie and are on the verge of being know as the other D-1 team in Montana and that scares them to death. That is why the coaching change, they are trying to hold on to something REALLY REALLY special, but they can see it slipping through their fingers,

BTW regardless of whether they have signed a LOI I practically guarantee that if any other Griz recruits wanted out of the LOI, they would have been give a release. I believe them when they say they still want join the program. The Athletic Department was so wise to hire Petrino as the interim coach. It was enough to hold the program together, and plus he is a great national recruiter. Petrino though has to worry about the wheels coming off before he even gets a chance to coach game 1. A lot of talent has left the program and it will be all he can do to fill roster gaps, fortunately he has 15 scholarships to work with.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:52 pm

There were two McDonalds All-American nominees from Idaho. MSU got one. There were four McDonalds All-American nominees from New Mexico. MSU got one. There were none from Montana.

Kola is a legitimate talent. Taller than most players with her skills. Coach Binford got two of the six (likely) best prospects out of Idaho and New Mexico. The caliber of the players is extremely high. I have no doubt she will go hard for any in-state player if she were (on paper) as good as these players, fit with the team, and fit her style. She has taken three Montana players in the next two years. That says a lot about them. If you can match up, the Bobcats will come calling. But Montana is a small pool and sometimes it is empty.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Catlady » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:02 pm

Why does it matter what state a player grew up? Are we beating carefully around the topic that the Lady Griz had zero diversity on their team? We live in a country now where it’s odd to have a team where every player is from the same state......... just as odd when the team has zero diversity. In today’s world it’s not unusual to have players even from a different country! I just saw that Binford had 7 players on the Big Sky All Academic squad....... let’s focus on the things that matter! We had a helluva a team that excelled on the court, in the classroom and in the community. That’s the standards that you use to judge the quality of a program. I’m a Redpath fan and enjoy her commentary during games, but I think she’s way out in left field on this topic.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Ilikecats » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:09 pm

Catlady wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:02 pm
Why does it matter what state a player grew up? Are we beating carefully around the topic that the Lady Griz had zero diversity on their team? We live in a country now where it’s odd to have a team where every player is from the same state......... just as odd when the team has zero diversity. In today’s world it’s not unusual to have players even from a different country! I just saw that Binford had 7 players on the Big Sky All Academic squad....... let’s focus on the things that matter! We had a helluva a team that excelled on the court, in the classroom and in the community. That’s the standards that you use to judge the quality of a program. I’m a Redpath fan and enjoy her commentary during games, but I think she’s way out in left field on this topic.
=D^ =D^
I guess that sums it up very well! I’m not sure why the Griz’s WBB program is failing, but There’s a huge world outside of Montana and Binford has done a great job tapping into the AAU circuit. Seems foolish to limit your recruiting to one state.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by BozoneCat » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:26 am

Catlady wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:02 pm
Why does it matter what state a player grew up? Are we beating carefully around the topic that the Lady Griz had zero diversity on their team? We live in a country now where it’s odd to have a team where every player is from the same state......... just as odd when the team has zero diversity. In today’s world it’s not unusual to have players even from a different country! I just saw that Binford had 7 players on the Big Sky All Academic squad....... let’s focus on the things that matter! We had a helluva a team that excelled on the court, in the classroom and in the community. That’s the standards that you use to judge the quality of a program. I’m a Redpath fan and enjoy her commentary during games, but I think she’s way out in left field on this topic.
Agree with everything, with the exception of your opinion re: Redpath. She's an idiot.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by WalkOn79 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:50 pm

:lol: :thumbup:
bpcats20 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:42 pm
Does signing two Griz legacy players and Forsyth girl for 2021 class count?


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by iaafan » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:18 pm

Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:30 pm
imacat wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:54 pm
Sounds like the instate recruits are not changing their plans.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky ... 97310.html
Kyndal Keller, Karsen Murphy and Willa Albrecht already signed in the fall so they can't change plans until at least semester even if they wanted to. None had any other D-I offers. L'Tia Lawrence decommitted from MSU-Northern literally the day before Shannon was fired. She will sign this month but also had no other D-I offers. Dani Bartsch, who's twin sister Paige is the best volleyball player in the state and committed to Boise State, said she still intends to sign in the fall. That will be the one UM has to fight to hold on to.
I'm going to sound like a jerk, but I honestly don't think any of those girls are D1 players. There were at least three, probably more, girls on this past season's roster that weren't D1 talent. Shannon wasn't a good recruiter and that's why she's no longer there. Sorry, but that's just the way I see it.



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