Schweyen out at Montana

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Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Colter_Nuanez » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:03 pm




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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Ilikecats » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:46 pm

Hate to see anyone lose their job! She bleeds Montana, but couldn’t build a winning program. No doubt Binford’s success played in this decision. The comments on the Griz forum are ugly.
I hope it’s not true, but it’s obvious they have Bobcat envy!
Last edited by Ilikecats on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by imacat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:53 am

I also hate to see this happen. I thought Coach Schweyen was intense, loyal and yet classy. I wish her well.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by mslacat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:39 am

4 years ago when Robin Selvig retired the splashy high profile pick to replace him and the person most of the Boosters and Fans wanted was Shannon Schweyen. The correct choice was Lady Griz assistant (and former Ladygriz player) Trish Duce. When Robin retired he was asked to give a name the admin a name of his assistant coaches he would recommend to replace him. He would not give a single name but recommended the Admin hire either Shannon or Duce with no preference give.

The other thing is I think today the best person the Ladygriz program could hire would be there current assistant Mike Petrino (or maybe Loree Payne). He has been given the "interim Coach" label for the 20-21 season but he may end up being a sacrificial lamb. With the open roster spots the Ladygriz have now and if any other players defect (like maybe Shannon's two daughters) he is going to have a bitch of a time replacing them, ESPECIALLY this (Covid-19) spring!



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Catlady » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:09 am

They’re going to need a total reboot. The program has fallen behind the Bobcats significantly and the Griz supporters know that this was a move that needed to happen. Things seemed very toxic and the players didn’t want to be there. The program seemed behind the times and didn’t have the talent to compete. It really hasn’t been much of a rivalry. I sat by some Griz fans during Cat/Griz and the goal wasn’t to win, it was to keep the score respectable.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by MSU01 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:16 am

Wow, how quickly has Coach Binford managed to completely reverse the fortunes of the two Montana D-I programs since Robin Selvig retired? And it's crazy to think looking back on her career that a lot of ADs probably would've fired her for having plenty of decent seasons but not winning any championships for her first decade or so on the job.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by rivercat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:21 am

mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:39 am
4 years ago when Robin Selvig retired the splashy high profile pick to replace him and the person most of the Boosters and Fans wanted was Shannon Schweyen. The correct choice was Lady Griz assistant (and former Ladygriz player) Trish Duce. When Robin retired he was asked to give a name the admin a name of his assistant coaches he would recommend to replace him. He would not give a single name but recommended the Admin hire either Shannon or Duce with no preference give.

The other thing is I think today the best person the Ladygriz program could hire would be there current assistant Mike Petrino (or maybe Loree Payne). He has been given the "interim Coach" label for the 20-21 season but he may end up being a sacrificial lamb. With the open roster spots the Ladygriz have now and if any other players defect (like maybe Shannon's two daughters) he is going to have a bitch of a time replacing them, ESPECIALLY this (Covid-19) spring!
The best players don't always make good coaches. I think this was the right decision but it is messy because of her husband being the track and field coach, her 2 daughters being on team, and just the fact that Shannon is a griz legend. Watching them play this year, they would have long stretches when they wouldn't score a single point. They looked like a team of skilled players without a clue how to play game and that is coaching.

I know nothing about Mike Petrino. Sounds like a good interim selection that could role into a permanent one. You mention Loree Payne. I DO NOT want to see her in dark pink! After seeing what she has done with NAU, I think she is an awesome coach. Her players competed hard and had fun doing it.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by WeedKillinCat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am

Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by rivercat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:33 am

WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
Agree on all this. I wouldn't be surprised if current players were also interviewed, especially with the naming of Petrino as being named the interim coach.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by mslacat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm

WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:25 pm

WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
I saw the comments in the paper about all the turnover. Guess I would have to see the numbers to support that as being the key metric. You have to remember you nearly always lose a couple players every year for whatever reason....boyfriend, girlfriend, school atmosphere, fit, lack of playing time, injury, academic pursuit, homesick, etc. etc.etc.

Just look at Bobcat women the last 5 years...we have lost 12 players. (No spelling police please..I am not going to look them all up) Hilborn, Fitzgerald, McRae, Shaide, Wright, Pranger, Lai, Seigner, Kast, Gillette, Blodgett, Davis. At least 4 of them would have been starters as upper classmen in my opinion....Blodgett, Wright, Pranger, Lai.......and others it was the right move to focus on academics or other opportunities or accept an off the bench role.

But the difference I see is the culture behind the program and that is measured on the court and off. That is where Binford is winning the program right now....these girls want to be here, they enjoy the game, the coaching staff has set up an environment to help support them in their life on the court and off, and they are continuing to attract quality young women as recruits. Coach has set high expectations for them on the court, in the class room and in the community. You can see they want to win together as a team...they simply want to “win”. Watch the smiles on the court and sitting on the bench or interacting with their coaches away from the court. Yes some will leave to pursue other ventures in life..that’s just how it is.

So it is the behind the scene picture that is not clear to me and it is more than a turnover metric. I think you are right if the interviews say the environment is “toxic” as someone wrote above or that the players have no respect for the coaching staff. That will be tough to continue to build a program on. And I don’t think just being “nice” to players tells me you will be successful....trust me the coach at UCONN, Baylor etc are not warm cuddly folks in practice and at the game.....but they do have the respect of their players and understand the expectations of them as young adults to be successful. I am not a Griz fan but I thought the team was making progress this year....they have been plagued by injuries the last couple years but were recovering and improving. They certainly had my attention when we played them. They didn’t have the ability to always finish a game strong but no one in the league did this year as well as our Bobcat ladies...and we have had years when we didn’t finish strong either.

And as noted by several others, this will be a tough couple years of rebuilding for them. Besides player losses (and yes I think you might see more now), unable to recruit in Covid crisis, interim coaches. It will be a challenge.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by 91catAlum » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:47 pm

mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.
Why? What was going on for that long?


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by WeedKillinCat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 pm

The other thing I was wondering as far as her recruits go, she seemed to recruit a lot of in state players but my question is were they good enough to play D-1 ball? Maybe she was trying to play the we have more "Montana" players on our roster? Seven out of the 12 listed on their roster are from MT and 2 are her daughters, so who knows if they'll be on the roster next year.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by Griz__00 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Catlady wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:09 am
They’re going to need a total reboot. The program has fallen behind the Bobcats significantly and the Griz supporters know that this was a move that needed to happen. Things seemed very toxic and the players didn’t want to be there. The program seemed behind the times and didn’t have the talent to compete. It really hasn’t been much of a rivalry. I sat by some Griz fans during Cat/Griz and the goal wasn’t to win, it was to keep the score respectable.
Sounds eerily like the men’s side. Lmao imagine calling the women’s not a rivalry, when on the men’s side you only took one game in the last decade. THAT is the epitome of “not a rivalry”, and it’s the basketball people actually care about.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by GoldstoneCat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:24 pm

Griz__00 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:55 pm
Catlady wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:09 am
They’re going to need a total reboot. The program has fallen behind the Bobcats significantly and the Griz supporters know that this was a move that needed to happen. Things seemed very toxic and the players didn’t want to be there. The program seemed behind the times and didn’t have the talent to compete. It really hasn’t been much of a rivalry. I sat by some Griz fans during Cat/Griz and the goal wasn’t to win, it was to keep the score respectable.
Sounds eerily like the men’s side. Lmao imagine calling the women’s not a rivalry, when on the men’s side you only took one game in the last decade. THAT is the epitome of “not a rivalry”, and it’s the basketball people actually care about.
Can't argue that. We need to compete better in men's basketball. You do in women's basketball, and it seems like there's another sport that got real lopsided last year, we mostly win at your facility, some people in the state seem to watch that rivalry each year... dammit i can't think of it... oh that's right... it's the large revenue sport! You know, the one most fans care the most about. :-$



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by mslacat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:18 pm

Turn over in D-1 basketball is at an all time today. They are expecting by the end of this year over 1000 men's players (that is almost 3 players a tem) will hit the Transfer Portal. I do not know of any source that tracks D-1 women but the number of women leaving programs has always been much higher than in the men . One of the reasons for that women are more willing to just quit if they feel basketball is not that high of a priority in their lives anymore. So yes both MSU and um have had a lot of player defections over the past 5-10 years.. I can not speak for the LadyGriz program but I can tell you Binford bends over backward to help her player even if they do want to transfer or quit, She does not take it personally she does what is best for her players first. I know when Blodgett derided not to return for academic reasons (the fact she was not playing heavy minutes also factored into the equation) Binford supported her and even kept her on scholarship. She also made sure she felt like she was still part of the team even though she was not playing. There have also been a handful of player who have had to retire because of injury and Binford helped them stay on scholarship.

In the case of the Ladygriz what I can you tell you is that a group of Ladygriz players approached the AD and college president with some grievance. What the players had to say was taken seriously enough that the AD and president quietly approached Shannon and came up with an action plan to address the Players grievances. There were some big time Ladygriz players, from recruiting hot beds, who were the most vocal. Some of those players did transfer but they manage to keep a couple important ones.

I have talked to a handful of women's Coaches and assistant coaches over the year about the difference between recruiting for a men's program and women's program. To a person the most important factor in getting and keeping players is that the majority of women players want a program that feels like "family". Is there a culture of we got your back. Take a look at the MSU women's Twitter and Facebook feed especially in the summer. You will see the players hanging at the lake, having BBQ's, hiking and generally having a good time together. It is not by accident that those pictures are there. They are for recruits to see how well this team gets together,how they have fun and how the coaches encourage a family atmosphere. Talk to any player who has ever played for Robin Selvig. They will tell you he rode them hard during games and practices, but after practices he was a teddy bear, and they all knew he had their back always!

I know I went a little off in the weeds, but I actually think in someways Shannon is more in the mold of a men's coach, but she may still have some issues to address.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:23 pm

mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.


What do you mean by this? in discussion with the players for two years?..does that mean the players are running the program? If the President and AD were going around my back as a coach I would have quit day 1 that I found out about it....AD needs to have my back as a coach. In fact, if I was a new coach coming in and found out the AD was going to be “coaching around“ me I wouldn’t take the job....”here have at it Mr. Haslam you coach em up.”. The AD and President better be supporting me as a coach or confronting me directly if they don’t like my progress in terms of culture or program success on the court and classroom. And if the AD is caught offguard, then perhaps the AD should be terminated because he/she is clueless what is going on in the program.

As a coach, I have to be able to coach in a manner that fits my style....and that may mean I will weed out players that don’t want to play up to my expectations and I may use a style different than my predecessor. The first year or two some of the former recruits may not get the court time they got under a prior coach. I always say by year 3 a new coach should be showing the success from their style and their recruits.

Now if it was a case of abuse or threats or physical harm that’s a different matter.....and I understand the need to go around a coach to complain. If that was the case, as an AD I would investigate immediately and terminate the coach immediately if true....not after two years.......

But if it is a coaching style and technique thing...then as an AD and President you better be supporting me and get rid of me when I don’t deliver the results you expect or the goals you set for me when you hired me.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:55 pm

Griz__00 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:55 pm
Catlady wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:09 am
They’re going to need a total reboot. The program has fallen behind the Bobcats significantly and the Griz supporters know that this was a move that needed to happen. Things seemed very toxic and the players didn’t want to be there. The program seemed behind the times and didn’t have the talent to compete. It really hasn’t been much of a rivalry. I sat by some Griz fans during Cat/Griz and the goal wasn’t to win, it was to keep the score respectable.
Sounds eerily like the men’s side. Lmao imagine calling the women’s not a rivalry, when on the men’s side you only took one game in the last decade. THAT is the epitome of “not a rivalry”, and it’s the basketball people actually care about.
Thank you Griz for that sage comment. Another area where you excel is the fine fine fine recruiting videos we see on TV exemplifying Montana. I saw one just last night. 20/20 is running a bunch of replays during these trying times and they happened to run one of your finest hours. The Jon Krakauer investigation with all the difficult interviews of multiple women whose lives were permanently injured. Heck if they keep replaying it for the next month while we are all quarantined you might have another 100 men from across America with “exemplary” reputations knocking on your doors in May.



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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by rivercat » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:33 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:23 pm
mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.


What do you mean by this? in discussion with the players for two years?..does that mean the players are running the program? If the President and AD were going around my back as a coach I would have quit day 1 that I found out about it....AD needs to have my back as a coach. In fact, if I was a new coach coming in and found out the AD was going to be “coaching around“ me I wouldn’t take the job....”here have at it Mr. Haslam you coach em up.”. The AD and President better be supporting me as a coach or confronting me directly if they don’t like my progress in terms of culture or program success on the court and classroom. And if the AD is caught offguard, then perhaps the AD should be terminated because he/she is clueless what is going on in the program.

As a coach, I have to be able to coach in a manner that fits my style....and that may mean I will weed out players that don’t want to play up to my expectations and I may use a style different than my predecessor. The first year or two some of the former recruits may not get the court time they got under a prior coach. I always say by year 3 a new coach should be showing the success from their style and their recruits.

Now if it was a case of abuse or threats or physical harm that’s a different matter.....and I understand the need to go around a coach to complain. If that was the case, as an AD I would investigate immediately and terminate the coach immediately if true....not after two years.......

But if it is a coaching style and technique thing...then as an AD and President you better be supporting me and get rid of me when I don’t deliver the results you expect or the goals you set for me when you hired me.
I think you need to reread mslacat's posts. He's not saying there was a nefarious conspiracy involving the players, AD, and Pres against Shannon. My take is that the unusual number of defections from the program has been a concern that the players have discussed with the AD. Fact is, in 4 years, the lady griz graduated 5 players vs having 18 players leave in that time frame. Second fact, the AD's job is not to blindly support a coach. If there are issue in a program, the AD's job is figure out what is going on, try to mitigate the problem, and finally make decisions on whether a coaching change is needed. It is an unfortunate situation over the hill and I feel for Shannon but would have made the same decision as Haslam.


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Re: Schweyen out at Montana

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:01 pm

rivercat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:33 pm
BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:23 pm
mslacat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:01 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 am
Kind of a crappy deal when they told her she was getting a 2 year deal.... but with all of the roster turnover that tells me that there's a problem. I wonder if the AD interviewed the players that left to get some input?
The AD and President have been in discussions with the players for about 2 years.


What do you mean by this? in discussion with the players for two years?..does that mean the players are running the program? If the President and AD were going around my back as a coach I would have quit day 1 that I found out about it....AD needs to have my back as a coach. In fact, if I was a new coach coming in and found out the AD was going to be “coaching around“ me I wouldn’t take the job....”here have at it Mr. Haslam you coach em up.”. The AD and President better be supporting me as a coach or confronting me directly if they don’t like my progress in terms of culture or program success on the court and classroom. And if the AD is caught offguard, then perhaps the AD should be terminated because he/she is clueless what is going on in the program.

As a coach, I have to be able to coach in a manner that fits my style....and that may mean I will weed out players that don’t want to play up to my expectations and I may use a style different than my predecessor. The first year or two some of the former recruits may not get the court time they got under a prior coach. I always say by year 3 a new coach should be showing the success from their style and their recruits.

Now if it was a case of abuse or threats or physical harm that’s a different matter.....and I understand the need to go around a coach to complain. If that was the case, as an AD I would investigate immediately and terminate the coach immediately if true....not after two years.......

But if it is a coaching style and technique thing...then as an AD and President you better be supporting me and get rid of me when I don’t deliver the results you expect or the goals you set for me when you hired me.
I think you need to reread mslacat's posts. He's not saying there was a nefarious conspiracy involving the players, AD, and Pres against Shannon. My take is that the unusual number of defections from the program has been a concern that the players have discussed with the AD. Fact is, in 4 years, the lady griz graduated 5 players vs having 18 players leave in that time frame. Second fact, the AD's job is not to blindly support a coach. If there are issue in a program, the AD's job is figure out what is going on, try to mitigate the problem, and finally make decisions on whether a coaching change is needed. It is an unfortunate situation over the hill and I feel for Shannon but would have made the same decision as Haslam.
I reread twice and still don’t know what he means so will let him/her explain.

I stand by my comment, if players are complaining about my style it is not up to the AD to over coach me but to support me. If it involves abuse, threats, physical harm it is my job as AD to fire you. And it IS MY JOB as AD to know what is going on in the program and take corrective action if you as coach are not meeting the goals I set for you when you took the job. I can guarantee Costello is at enough practices and meetings (I have seen him there) that he sees and knows what is going on in the women’s basketball program and I guarantee he knows how the ladies are doing scholastically....and if not meeting Scholastic expectations or behavior expectations, he is having the discussions with Binford to get it corrected......not the team. And if as AD you offer me a two year contract and then pull it back, it tells me about your ethics and I really don’t care to be there anyway.

That being said, if you are truly correct that ONLY 5 kids graduated in 4 years, then I would fire both the AD and the Coach. My future AD would know what I expect in academics and performance. If you are going to turn around an institution you don’t accept this at any level of leadership......you think Cruzado would accept that from an AD in 4 years?



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