MSU women suffer first BSC loss

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BobcatDel
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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by BobcatDel » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:45 pm

Ilikecats wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:41 pm
I do agree we got out coached, but I don’t see the accountability for the laziness on defense. Until Binford makes a commitment to defense, we are always going to struggle in close games. When we won the Big Sky a couple of seasons ago, Ferris, Nordgaard, Hatcher, Junkermeir and Braxton tried to shut teams down. I don’t see that kind of intensity right now. We don’t dive on the floor for loose balls and we don’t make the opponent pay if they flop on a ball screen.
Are we watching the same team/game? What does a good defensive game look like to you?

I will give it a shot. A good defense disrupts the offensive flow of the game and fans often think the offense is inept. Fans tend to find a defensive game as a bit “ugly” because they like all those great shots and powering offensive plays (How many times do the fans rise to their feet and cheer at a great block or a steal or a turnover?). A good defense takes away the offense of the other teams leading scorer....by taking away clean looks at the basket and keeping the ball out of their hands. You often see a lot of turnovers and steals and disruption of passing lanes. Good defensive teams usually are top rebounding teams. Good defensive teams are usually good at a man to man defense but alter the game to keep the other team off balance.

So what I saw was a game where the two best defenses in the league did exactly that. It was a hard scrabble, hard fought, physical defensive game the whole night with neither team being able to get a commanding lead. Both teams played to their strengths. Lady Cats out-rebounded them 51 to 49. Both teams had 8 steals. Lady Cats forced 17 turnovers and the Vandals forced 16 turnovers. I saw kids going to the floor but maybe I am half blind. White kept the ball away from Marxin and frustrated her the entire regulation period....they even took it out of her hands bringing the ball up the court...did you notice that change as Marxin was frustrated....she was only 2 of 7 from 3-pt range through regulation about half her season average..it took 6 periods of play to reach her season average and that was likely due to Oli not being able to help on the defensive end switches. It was a clear strategy to take the ball out of Marxin hands to force a freshman (Bea) or a Klinker to beat us...and the Bea girl rose to the occasion...so is that being out coached??? Regulation ended at 59-59 which was the average for both teams defensively coming into the game. Neither team shot over 40% from the floor. You could see their plan was to collapse on our bigs underneath and force our guards and forwards to win the game.

We didn’t win because we didn’t score the last 5 min of regulation, we missed a number of layups (Smith missed one in last 3 min..not just our freshman..and Freije missed one on a breakaway also), in OT they pulled down a couple key offensive rebounds and got second chance shots, and yes I think missing Oli allowed Marxin to get a couple clean looks that resulted in her hitting a couple 3s in OT, and there were a couple good bounces to them (one example was the scramble where Jackson scrambled to get the ball back in but we lost control and they got another 30 sec shot clock.....with just a few “normally made” shots we would have won this game.

It was a good effort by the lady Cats. Yes Idaho is well coached...but sorry, this was not the game to say Binford was out coached.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by BobcatDel » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:03 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:45 pm
Ilikecats wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:41 pm
I do agree we got out coached, but I don’t see the accountability for the laziness on defense. Until Binford makes a commitment to defense, we are always going to struggle in close games. When we won the Big Sky a couple of seasons ago, Ferris, Nordgaard, Hatcher, Junkermeir and Braxton tried to shut teams down. I don’t see that kind of intensity right now. We don’t dive on the floor for loose balls and we don’t make the opponent pay if they flop on a ball screen.
Are we watching the same team/game? What does a good defensive game look like to you?

I will give it a shot. A good defense disrupts the offensive flow of the game and fans often think the offense is inept. Fans tend to find a defensive game as a bit “ugly” because they like all those great shots and powering offensive plays (How many times do the fans rise to their feet and cheer at a great block or a steal or a turnover?). A good defense takes away the offense of the other teams leading scorer....by taking away clean looks at the basket and keeping the ball out of their hands. You often see a lot of turnovers and steals and disruption of passing lanes. Good defensive teams usually are top rebounding teams. Good defensive teams are usually good at a man to man defense but alter the game to keep the other team off balance.

So what I saw was a game where the two best defenses in the league did exactly that. It was a hard scrabble, hard fought, physical defensive game the whole night with neither team being able to get a commanding lead. Both teams played to their strengths. Lady Cats out-rebounded them 51 to 49. Both teams had 8 steals. Lady Cats forced 17 turnovers and the Vandals forced 16 turnovers. I saw kids going to the floor but maybe I am half blind. White kept the ball away from Marxin and frustrated her the entire regulation period....they even took it out of her hands bringing the ball up the court...did you notice that change as Marxin was frustrated....she was only 2 of 7 from 3-pt range through regulation about half her season average..it took 6 periods of play to reach her season average and that was likely due to Oli not being able to help on the defensive end switches. It was a clear strategy to take the ball out of Marxin hands to force a freshman (Bea) or a Klinker to beat us...and the Bea girl rose to the occasion...so is that being out coached??? Regulation ended at 59-59 which was the average for both teams defensively coming into the game. Neither team shot over 40% from the floor. You could see their plan was to collapse on our bigs underneath and force our guards and forwards to win the game.

We didn’t win because we didn’t score the last 5 min of regulation, we missed a number of layups (Smith missed one in last 3 min..not just our freshman..and Freije missed one on a breakaway also), in OT they pulled down a couple key offensive rebounds and got second chance shots, and yes I think missing Oli allowed Marxin to get a couple clean looks that resulted in her hitting a couple 3s in OT, and there were a couple good bounces to them (one example was the scramble where Jackson scrambled to get the ball back in but we lost control and they got another 30 sec shot clock.....with just a few “normally made” shots we would have won this game.

It was a good effort by the lady Cats. Yes Idaho is well coached...but sorry, this was not the game to say Binford was out coached.
Continuing to rag on the defense comments. Coming into the game the Lady Cats were allowing less than 60 ppg (after game it went to 60.4 ppg. If season was done right now that would finish 2nd in the “entire history” of WBB at MSU in terms of defense. I know you will say “well there were a couple Frontier Conference games in there”...and perhaps forgetting to mention that we also played 4 nationally ranked teams (none of which have scored 80 points against us...Gonzaga, Texas A&M, Minnesota, and South Dakota State.

Right now the Lady Cats lead the league in rebounding margin at +5.9 pg, total rebounding 42.1 pg. They are 2nd in the league in FG defense allowing 35.9%, second in scoring defense, and 2nd in steals at 10.9 pg.

As the season wears on and depending on how healthy we stay, this team could finish in top 10 defensive teams in history. We shall see. And yes they have changed focus in practice to alternate between focused offense and defense sessions....again, I guess I am just a dumb old farm kid but I can clearly see the change in defensive energy with this team...but like I said earlier perhaps I am half blind.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:28 pm

I think the defense is just fine. After traveling to Portland, they held the other highest scoring team in the league to 6 points in the first quarter and 18 points for the first half. Without Oliana. This is not a good defensive team, it’s an excellent defensive team.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:06 am

iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:43 am
John K wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:48 pm
MSU women couldn't buy a basket down the stretch and lose to Idaho 69-68 in double OT, to fall to 4-1 in conference. Liz and Natalie Klinker from Fairfield play for UI. Liz started out at Utah State, and transferred to Idaho, and the oldest sister Molly played for UM. I dont know how we missed out on all 3 of them, considering their dad is a big Bobcat fan. The MSU men were on the other side of an equally close game and an almost identical score, beating UI 71-68, with Harold Frey converting a 3-point play at the end to seal the deal.
Who would you trade out our nine player rotation for the Klinker sisters?
Lizzie would play for us. I don't thing Nat would.


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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:13 am

Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:11 pm
@BelgradeBobcat I know how you feel. All games like that can be said to be lost by a missed free throw in the first quarter or any other opportunity not taken. The layup bugaboo did bite again last night, not least because of their rather violent style of defense. But given the cards we were dealt, from memory we had at least three opportunities to end that one in our favor. This is not an indictment of our team, but my memories of what went wrong. I love this team, love to watch them play. I believe we had six or seven empty possessions with the score 54-48. Any score there may have won it. We had some forced shots and at least one layup that went awry. Composure. An excellent chance was with a great steal that nearly would have allowed us to run the clock out, but it was immediately turned over. Composure. Clock awareness was missing a couple of times. We missed Oliana, plain and simple, after she got hurt. We needed on-court leadership to steady the ship. I also thought we missed having everyone on the same page when a defensive rebound was in play and Idaho recovered it. By the time we got into any semblance of defense they had found their shooter and bingo. We did a great job of holding her down during transition and half court play. But on some of those long rebounds that caromed around we had everyone chasing and no staying home on an extremely good shooter. It’s frustrating but we’ll be okay. By tournament time our freshmen will be sophomores. From what I have seen we have at least as much quality athleticism and depth as any team. Stay the course. “Trust the system.” — J. Choate, 2019-2020.

Go ‘Cats. With favorable weather and health I’ll see you all in Cedar City on March 4th.
That was the difference. We let them hang around when we could of went up by 8 or 10.


"The pride and tradition
of Montana State football
will not be entrusted to
the timid or weak!"

Cliff Hysell, RIP

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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:18 am

BobcatDel wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:45 pm
Ilikecats wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:41 pm
I do agree we got out coached, but I don’t see the accountability for the laziness on defense. Until Binford makes a commitment to defense, we are always going to struggle in close games. When we won the Big Sky a couple of seasons ago, Ferris, Nordgaard, Hatcher, Junkermeir and Braxton tried to shut teams down. I don’t see that kind of intensity right now. We don’t dive on the floor for loose balls and we don’t make the opponent pay if they flop on a ball screen.
Are we watching the same team/game? What does a good defensive game look like to you?

I will give it a shot. A good defense disrupts the offensive flow of the game and fans often think the offense is inept. Fans tend to find a defensive game as a bit “ugly” because they like all those great shots and powering offensive plays (How many times do the fans rise to their feet and cheer at a great block or a steal or a turnover?). A good defense takes away the offense of the other teams leading scorer....by taking away clean looks at the basket and keeping the ball out of their hands. You often see a lot of turnovers and steals and disruption of passing lanes. Good defensive teams usually are top rebounding teams. Good defensive teams are usually good at a man to man defense but alter the game to keep the other team off balance.

So what I saw was a game where the two best defenses in the league did exactly that. It was a hard scrabble, hard fought, physical defensive game the whole night with neither team being able to get a commanding lead. Both teams played to their strengths. Lady Cats out-rebounded them 51 to 49. Both teams had 8 steals. Lady Cats forced 17 turnovers and the Vandals forced 16 turnovers. I saw kids going to the floor but maybe I am half blind. White kept the ball away from Marxin and frustrated her the entire regulation period....they even took it out of her hands bringing the ball up the court...did you notice that change as Marxin was frustrated....she was only 2 of 7 from 3-pt range through regulation about half her season average..it took 6 periods of play to reach her season average and that was likely due to Oli not being able to help on the defensive end switches. It was a clear strategy to take the ball out of Marxin hands to force a freshman (Bea) or a Klinker to beat us...and the Bea girl rose to the occasion...so is that being out coached??? Regulation ended at 59-59 which was the average for both teams defensively coming into the game. Neither team shot over 40% from the floor. You could see their plan was to collapse on our bigs underneath and force our guards and forwards to win the game.

We didn’t win because we didn’t score the last 5 min of regulation, we missed a number of layups (Smith missed one in last 3 min..not just our freshman..and Freije missed one on a breakaway also), in OT they pulled down a couple key offensive rebounds and got second chance shots, and yes I think missing Oli allowed Marxin to get a couple clean looks that resulted in her hitting a couple 3s in OT, and there were a couple good bounces to them (one example was the scramble where Jackson scrambled to get the ball back in but we lost control and they got another 30 sec shot clock.....with just a few “normally made” shots we would have won this game.

It was a good effort by the lady Cats. Yes Idaho is well coached...but sorry, this was not the game to say Binford was out coached.
Yeah not sure how they called that a change of possession. Really a key call late.


"The pride and tradition
of Montana State football
will not be entrusted to
the timid or weak!"

Cliff Hysell, RIP

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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by iaafan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:12 pm

WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:06 am
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:43 am
John K wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:48 pm
MSU women couldn't buy a basket down the stretch and lose to Idaho 69-68 in double OT, to fall to 4-1 in conference. Liz and Natalie Klinker from Fairfield play for UI. Liz started out at Utah State, and transferred to Idaho, and the oldest sister Molly played for UM. I dont know how we missed out on all 3 of them, considering their dad is a big Bobcat fan. The MSU men were on the other side of an equally close game and an almost identical score, beating UI 71-68, with Harold Frey converting a 3-point play at the end to seal the deal.
Who would you trade out our nine player rotation for the Klinker sisters?
Lizzie would play for us. I don't thing Nat would.
Who would Lizzie replace?

I think one of them went to Utah State, so I don’t really consider that “missed out” on her. I would think most people would take a MWC school over a BSC school.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by iaafan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:09 am

Women now hold a full game lead for first place at 5-1.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by John K » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:14 am

iaafan wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:09 am
Women now hold a full game lead for first place at 5-1.
Well they're tied with Idaho (3-1) in the loss column, so it's a little misleading to say they have a one game lead, even though it's technically correct. Still, they are definitely in a good position, with the conference season approximately one-third complete now. I see that PSU beat UM fairly easily last night in Missoula, and of course we beat PSU fairly easily in Portland. It was good to see them come back and get a good win, after the disappointing home loss to Idaho on Thursday.

Edit: The PSU-UM game last night was in Portland, not Missoula.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by iaafan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:59 am

John K wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:14 am
iaafan wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:09 am
Women now hold a full game lead for first place at 5-1.
Well they're tied with Idaho (3-1) in the loss column, so it's a little misleading to say they have a one game lead, even though it's technically correct. Still, they are definitely in a good position, with the conference season approximately one-third complete now. I see that PSU beat UM fairly easily last night in Missoula, and of course we beat PSU fairly easily in Portland. It was good to see them come back and get a good win, after the disappointing home loss to Idaho on Thursday.

Edit: The PSU-UM game last night was in Portland, not Missoula.
It is misleading, because MSU is easily the best team in the league this year. The loss to Idaho was a fluke. MSU will beat Idaho handily next game.

PSU had a huge lead at half, but squandered it in the second half. They hit their FTs late to pull away. I think they were 23-26.

MSU will probably have another off night before the year is out, everyone does, but they’re a good 10 points better than anybody in the BSC.

Enjoy the ride!



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by WalkOn79 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:30 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:12 pm
WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:06 am
iaafan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:43 am
John K wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:48 pm
MSU women couldn't buy a basket down the stretch and lose to Idaho 69-68 in double OT, to fall to 4-1 in conference. Liz and Natalie Klinker from Fairfield play for UI. Liz started out at Utah State, and transferred to Idaho, and the oldest sister Molly played for UM. I dont know how we missed out on all 3 of them, considering their dad is a big Bobcat fan. The MSU men were on the other side of an equally close game and an almost identical score, beating UI 71-68, with Harold Frey converting a 3-point play at the end to seal the deal.
Who would you trade out our nine player rotation for the Klinker sisters?
Lizzie would play for us. I don't thing Nat would.
Who would Lizzie replace?

I think one of them went to Utah State, so I don’t really consider that “missed out” on her. I would think most people would take a MWC school over a BSC school.
I just think Lizzie would be in the rotation.


"The pride and tradition
of Montana State football
will not be entrusted to
the timid or weak!"

Cliff Hysell, RIP

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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by Rich K » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:36 am

Professional journalism presents:



Image

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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:29 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by BobcatDel » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:23 pm

I needed a chuckle for the day...thanks for sharing.



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by RickRund » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:09 am

Oh my gosh... Does anyone proofread any more? uofm school of journalism...



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Re: MSU women suffer first BSC loss

Post by grizzh8r » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:31 am

RickRund wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:09 am
Oh my gosh... Does anyone proofread any more? uofm school of journalism...
Look closely, it was in the Lewiston, ID newspaper.

Still, in this day and age, that's grounds for dismissal of the sports editor...


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Retard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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