Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

roofman71 · Post by **roofman71** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:53 am

I know to everyone in Bobcat Nation it seems that Coach Kramer is already gone to Idaho, but is it just me or does any other Cat faithful feel there is a serious lack of effert by Peter Fields to try to keep Kramer here. If you look at Fields comments and read between the lines, I don't think he wants to keep Kramer from going to Idaho. Fields says he needs to sit down with him sometime and discuss a new multi year contract. Why hasn't he already done this if he new last Saturday that Idaho wanted to talk with Kramer about the job? I guess when your AD and your Coach don't like each other this is what happens. But I think Fields needs to put aside his personal feelings and do what is best for not only the football program but the entire athletic department. Coach Kramer has raised alot of money not only for football but for the entire athletic department when he travels the state and attends all the differnt booster functions. Seriously what other Bobcat coach has the ablity to raise money like Coach Kramer? It jusst seems to me that Fields would like to see Coach Kramer go so he can hire another coach that he can control.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:59 am

roofman71 wrote:I know to everyone in Bobcat Nation it seems that Coach Kramer is already gone to Idaho, but is it just me or does any other Cat faithful feel there is a serious lack of effert by Peter Fields to try to keep Kramer here. If you look at Fields comments and read between the lines, I don't think he wants to keep Kramer from going to Idaho. Fields says he needs to sit down with him sometime and discuss a new multi year contract. Why hasn't he already done this if he new last Saturday that Idaho wanted to talk with Kramer about the job? I guess when your AD and your Coach don't like each other this is what happens. But I think Fields needs to put aside his personal feelings and do what is best for not only the football program but the entire athletic department. Coach Kramer has raised alot of money not only for football but for the entire athletic department when he travels the state and attends all the differnt booster functions. Seriously what other Bobcat coach has the ablity to raise money like Coach Kramer? It jusst seems to me that Fields would like to see Coach Kramer go so he can hire another coach that he can control.

Thought provoking. How many years removed are we from winning the conference All-Sports-Academic trophy?

Are we just getting lip service about the major source of revenue for an athletic department relative facilities? Imagine five years down the road and we've only added 5-10k for seating in the stadium how many that frequent here will be saying: "I told you so!"

The Butcher · Post by **The Butcher** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:02 am

I have heard on a number of occasions that Fields and Kramer are notorious for bumping heads. Their personalities are very different. For example; Peter is a number cruncher and keeps a pretty tight budget, while Kramer overspends his budget on a regular bases. This puts Fields in the position of taking money from other areas in the budget to cover these over expenditures. Fields probably wouldn't mind having a football coach that he hired, versus a coach that he inherited.

old wise one · Post by **old wise one** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:05 am

Nice post roofman. While Kramer does have some faults(and who doesn't), Fields is a thing of beauty.

Fields is definitely a MICRO-MANAGER, and the one person for sure he does not have under his thumb at the present time is Kramer. And I know it bothers him greatly.

I have said it once, and will say it again, Kramer has done more financially for MSU than Peter could ever dream of.

I wish the Colorado St. rumors about Fields going there a year ago would have come true.

CatsRback · Post by **CatsRback** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:06 am

we don't know what we don't know - Kramer may have told Fields that if the Idaho job were to come open there would be nothing that could make him stay. Fields may be trying to get Kramer on a 3 year deal - but, thanks to the state and the Board of Regents, he has very little flexibility in what he can offer.

Kramer could be very open about this - however, Fields, as a manager for the state of Montana - can't. He can't violate personal privacy rules - he's just going to have to sit back and take it no matter what happens..

sorry - that's just the way it is.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:12 am

Well, seven years removed from Coaches first year, we all accept the rebuilding in the other major sports program given Coach ran off 44 kids the first year, one who was kind of instrumental for Chadron this past fall. How many more years will we tolerate knowing full well our football team is loaded for not only bear but as serious contenders next fall taking us back to the dumps? We keep saying "It takes time to recruit the kids you want for your program" but I recall Dave Arnold did okay with Sonny Lubick's kids (go ahead and say the one year Graber was here he made a positive impact on anything.)

I still blame Fullerton for the direction we went for many years and we appear to be repeating the very same pattern.

vike_king · Post by **vike_king** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:16 am

Cat Grad wrote:
I still blame Fullerton for the direction we went for many years and we appear to be repeating the very same pattern.

Don't be dropping "F" bombs like that, I hate that word!

Cat_gld · Post by **Cat_gld** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:18 am

roofman71 wrote:I know to everyone in Bobcat Nation it seems that Coach Kramer is already gone to Idaho, but is it just me or does any other Cat faithful feel there is a serious lack of effert by Peter Fields to try to keep Kramer here. If you look at Fields comments and read between the lines, I don't think he wants to keep Kramer from going to Idaho. Fields says he needs to sit down with him sometime and discuss a new multi year contract. Why hasn't he already done this if he new last Saturday that Idaho wanted to talk with Kramer about the job? I guess when your AD and your Coach don't like each other this is what happens. But I think Fields needs to put aside his personal feelings and do what is best for not only the football program but the entire athletic department. Coach Kramer has raised alot of money not only for football but for the entire athletic department when he travels the state and attends all the differnt booster functions. Seriously what other Bobcat coach has the ablity to raise money like Coach Kramer? It jusst seems to me that Fields would like to see Coach Kramer go so he can hire another coach that he can control.

I wouldn't expect any issues of personality and style between Fields and Kramer to have anything to do with Kramer's staying or leaving. I suspect that career goals and $$, and the desire to take something that's broken and fixing it to be motivations for any decision Kramer might make. I also suspect that there is little else that Fields has authority to offer in terms of salary, benefits and perks. Besides, most of those that have been successful in coaching do have big egos....a very essential ingredient for success I might add.

If you want to know what motivates Fields, just take a good look at the state of MSU athletics today compared to 5-10 years ago. He's doing for the athletic department what Kramer did for MSU football, and crunching the numbers is part of his job. As I've stated before, this is the first time in about 3 decades that MSU has had adult supervision in the AD's office. And, I know if coach K leaves, Fields will find a replacement that will continue what coach K started.

bobcatmaniac · Post by **bobcatmaniac** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:23 am

At first I was upset to think K would go. I think change is good. He brought us up. Fields is good. We will continue to grow. Maybe we should start a rumor that Hauck is coming here

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:24 am

Fields doesn't have the checkbook. Unlike a BCS coach who courts a new job just to raise is salary (Rutgers coach), MSU can't afford to double Kramer's salary. It's just the way it is on our level of the food chain.

My question-how does Idaho afford to pay Kramer twice what we pay? What is their cut of any WAC bowl money? I suppose Boise's appearance in the Fiesta Bowl helps that whole conference. How many body bag games does Idaho play? I recall at least 2 maybe 3 a year. They certainly don't do it with ticket sales-which are about the same as us at a school with an enrollment about the same as us-in town that's far smaller than ours. Maybe their boosters are richer?

crazycat · Post by **crazycat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:24 am

roofman71 wrote:I know to everyone in Bobcat Nation it seems that Coach Kramer is already gone to Idaho, but is it just me or does any other Cat faithful feel there is a serious lack of effert by Peter Fields to try to keep Kramer here. If you look at Fields comments and read between the lines, I don't think he wants to keep Kramer from going to Idaho. Fields says he needs to sit down with him sometime and discuss a new multi year contract. Why hasn't he already done this if he new last Saturday that Idaho wanted to talk with Kramer about the job? I guess when your AD and your Coach don't like each other this is what happens. But I think Fields needs to put aside his personal feelings and do what is best for not only the football program but the entire athletic department. Coach Kramer has raised alot of money not only for football but for the entire athletic department when he travels the state and attends all the differnt booster functions. Seriously what other Bobcat coach has the ablity to raise money like Coach Kramer? It jusst seems to me that Fields would like to see Coach Kramer go so he can hire another coach that he can control.

I don't think that's the case at all. Fields doesn't want Kramer to go, but he knows the thing to do is be supportive of a move that will double/triple Kramer's salary. Few bosses aren't this way. Jim O'Day of UM has the same stance with Hauck. He knows Hauck is 'marketable' as he put it and that the day will come when he leaves for a bigger pay check.

There's no sense in making things more difficult by saying things that might put a coach in an unfavorable light. If Fields starts doing things to get Kramer to stay, which in reality there isn't anything that Fields can put out there that can do that, it will just make Kramer feel worse about leaving and possibly make the fans dislike him for leaving. It won't benefit anyone to go that route.

Bobcat 2000 · Post by **Bobcat 2000** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:41 am

I strongly agree that Fields has done very little to pursuade Kramer to consider staying.

His comments in the G.Falls Tribune sends a very clear message to Kramer that he doesn't care if Kramer leaves. Other than money, emotions are the most important issue in a decision to stay or leave. If our administartion (Fields) can't even give Kramer a clear vote of confindence in the paper, let alone sit down with the coach to ask, "what can we do to keep you here," it only motivates him more to leave.

Fields needs to understand what Kramer means, not only to Bobcat football, but the whole athletic department. If Kramer has questions on whether he really wants to leave, an administration that is showing a genuine interest in keeping him may be just what it takes for him to stay put.

If feieds doesn't get with him quickly, show some appreciation, and ask the logical question of what can we do to make him conside staying here, then Fields should be the man to GO! We all have issues with the people we work with, but an intelligent person can recognize when an employees strengths outweigh your personal issues with them.

If he doesn't step up here and do everything within his means to try to pursuade Kramer to stay, we should all call the president and ask for Field's resignation!!!

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:52 am

http://www.vandalscholarshipfund.com/

Here's a decent start as to why they can pay more; compare the University of Idaho state budget to the MSU budget contribution if you enjoy crunching numbers (I don't because that's what I got stuck doing after I came back) and it goes back to the main resource: money. They've got it, we don't.

Pretend we get our former athletes collectively deciding they are going to fund the entire scholarship program--what could we do with all the other fundraising, state money, body bag money?

Under the Freedom of Information Act, I've read a report that the majority of the BCS schools have the head football coach as the highest paid faculty member, the AD number 2 and the president the third highest paid individual on campus. Man, we laughed at the carrying on of the Chancellor of Ape State but there is a man who understands the significance of a football teams success for the overall financial health of an institution. Imagine trying to use that logic with most of my relatives in Montana

For what it's worth, many of their grads realize they need their own field and want a new one--guess who the major impediment and naysayer toward that noble cause would be!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:59 am

Bobcat 2000 wrote:I strongly agree that Fields has done very little to pursuade Kramer to consider staying.

His comments in the G.Falls Tribune sends a very clear message to Kramer that he doesn't care if Kramer leaves. Other than money, emotions are the most important issue in a decision to stay or leave. If our administartion (Fields) can't even give Kramer a clear vote of confindence in the paper, let alone sit down with the coach to ask, "what can we do to keep you here," it only motivates him more to leave.

Fields needs to understand what Kramer means, not only to Bobcat football, but the whole athletic department. If Kramer has questions on whether he really wants to leave, an administration that is showing a genuine interest in keeping him may be just what it takes for him to stay put.

If feieds doesn't get with him quickly, show some appreciation, and ask the logical question of what can we do to make him conside staying here, then Fields should be the man to GO! We all have issues with the people we work with, but an intelligent person can recognize when an employees strengths outweigh your personal issues with them.

If he doesn't step up here and do everything within his means to try to pursuade Kramer to stay, we should all call the president and ask for Field's resignation!!!

If you/your family/your friends wants to volunteer to kick in a couple hundred thousand a year, I'm sure that Fields would be willing to use it to enhance the salary of the coaching position ... which would make it more likely that we could keep Kramer.

Without the ability to pay more, however, I'm not sure exactly how you propose that Fields could try to keep Kramer around.

You have the power, Fields does not ... make it happen.

MAGOO · Post by **MAGOO** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:14 am

And the fact that we can't afford to pay anything close to either a D1A head coach or assistant coach salary is a darn good reason to look to NAIA or DivII head coaches for a replacement.

The Butcher · Post by **The Butcher** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:22 am

Cat Grad wrote:Pretend we get our former athletes collectively deciding they are going to fund the entire scholarship program--what could we do with all the other fundraising, state money, body bag money?

One problem, most of our former athletes cut ties with Montana after graduation. That is one BIG problem with recruiting so many California players. If the Cats had more national exposure than this wouldn't be an issue, but it is easy to lose those ties when you live thousands of miles away and never see the Cats play (out of sight out of mind). I really don’t think the MSU and the Cats do a very good job of keeping in touch with their alumni and former players- at least that is my personal experience. I will admit MSU's ASA has come a long ways over the last ten years, thanks in large part to what the Great Falls ASA Chapter has done.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:33 am

Based upon your comment BAC, I have a few questions:

1) Can the alumni/boosters of a school generate, say $100,000.00 per year, extra money that goes directly to a coach as supplemental income?

2) If so, could it be built into our Bobcat Club dues yearly? If 5000 boosters gave an extra $100/yr, that would equate to an extra $500,000.00 for coaches salaries.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:37 am

The Butcher wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:Pretend we get our former athletes collectively deciding they are going to fund the entire scholarship program--what could we do with all the other fundraising, state money, body bag money?
One problem, most of our former athletes cut ties with Montana after graduation. That is one BIG problem with recruiting so many California players. If the Cats had more national exposure than this wouldn't be an issue, but it is easy to lose those ties when you live thousands of miles away and never see the Cats play (out of sight out of mind). I really don’t think the MSU and the Cats do a very good job of keeping in touch with their alumni and former players- at least that is my personal experience. I will admit MSU's ASA has come a long ways over the last ten years, thanks in large part to what the Great Falls ASA Chapter has done.

I agree to a large extent; however, what year did our career placement center state that for the first time in years, half the graduating seniors were able to gain employment IN THEIR FIELD in Montana after how many years of over fifty percent forced to relocate? Whoever we get needs to tap the expatriated MSU student athlete and our fundraising needs to do a little better job on the national level. I'm curious how many MSU grads live in the Hotlanta area alone?

We really are a more divergent group of graduates who by and large pack our bags and head out right after graduation, but nobody in Bozeman appears to be going after that rather exclusive, high paid market. That's one of the reasons we need to push the MODS for a new department within MSU. Marketing is great, but our school needs a lot more.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:37 am

barechestcat wrote:Based upon your comment BAC, I have a few questions:

1) Can the alumni/boosters of a school generate, say $100,000.00 per year, extra money that goes directly to a coach as supplemental income?

2) If so, could it be built into our Bobcat Club dues yearly? If 5000 boosters gave an extra $100/yr, that would equate to an extra $500,000.00 for coaches salaries.

You've in large part just described the Bobcat Quarterback Club.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:44 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:
barechestcat wrote:Based upon your comment BAC, I have a few questions:

1) Can the alumni/boosters of a school generate, say $100,000.00 per year, extra money that goes directly to a coach as supplemental income?

2) If so, could it be built into our Bobcat Club dues yearly? If 5000 boosters gave an extra $100/yr, that would equate to an extra $500,000.00 for coaches salaries.
You've in large part just described the Bobcat Quarterback Club.

Does some of that money go to Kramer as personal funds?

Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

Re: Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

Re: Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?

Re: Why isn't Fields trying to keep Kramer?