Rant - receivers in the news

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BobcatBlood
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Rant - receivers in the news

Post by BobcatBlood » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:28 am

Is it just me or does it seem like Kramer can't just congratulate Eddie Sullivan and leave it at that - or really say anything good about him at all? In the editorial on Sunday all he could say was that Eddie screwed around in practice and mouths off too much.

In the Chronicle today, the story about Gatewood just annoys me to no end. Gatewood has steadily improved and I'm really glad that he is on this team. This is not against him. Kramer says, "Rick's a good football player, I can't say that about the other receivers. He can do the dirty work, he's a physical guy, he loves to block. He's tough carrying the ball. Rick carries the ball like a tailback."

Eddie didn't get thrown a sixty yard play in the third quarter.. he used a beautiful stiff arm to pick up another 40 yards + and when Travis threw the interception, he made the most pure, dominant unassisted tackle on the guy who interecepted it that I've seen any of these receivers make. Why couldn't Kramer just say "most receivers aren't full blown football players" or something like that? WHy specifically say that Gatewood is the only Football player we have at wide receiver? (I'm not a big Guinn fan - i don't think he blocks or does the little extra to stretch out for a ball or push it ahead another yard, but that isn't the point) In his coaches show on Monday, Kramer said that Sullivan, Guinn and Gatewood are the only acceptable receivers on the team - all the others are WAY behind. Even if that is true, why say it? And frankly, i've seen Alley too many times in practice to believe that. I'd be a little surprised if he didn't find another team...

Anyway, I'll leave it that. In general I think Kramer is a good coach but I hate these little comments that he makes. I should probably get some coffee...



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Post by jagur1 » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:01 am

BB: Coffee might be a good Idea.....I lost my Mountain Dew yesterday, got grummpy and these guys tore me up. :-#
Last edited by jagur1 on Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Exactly

Post by PDXKat » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:26 am

I have no idea why he'd say those things. If he's trying to motivate the others, strange way to do it. Eddie has been playing great, the trio has stepped up their game so much in the last couple games they could use a few pats on the back. Chaz just needs a few catches and he'll be back. I'd love to see Chaz make that fantastic catch - he's been giving up on the ball a little too early and not putting himself in a position to make that "impossible"catch. If he makes just one of those, watch out.



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Post by grizhatr » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:28 am

I agree BobcatBlood. I like Kramer as well, however, those smart**&& comments need to disappear. It does absolutely nothing for moral. Kind of reminds me of the comment he made about Ryan Johnson a few years back. He needs to think before he flaps those lips of his.



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Post by WYCAT » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:39 am

Couldn't agree more BobcatBlood. He always seems to pick certain players that can do no wrong and some that can do no right (Sullivan, Alley, kickers in general - okay maybe that isn't the best example). I know coaches are going to have their favorites but the public comments should be held in check and if not they should be more consistent. Sullivan has been a work horse the past few games and deserves kudos as much or more than anyone - even Travis. Maybe Eddie is reading this board and can take heart in what we are saying. EEEEEDDDDDIIIIIEEEEE, EEEEEDDDDDIIIIIEEEE, EEEEEDDDDDIIIIIEEEEE.



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Eddie

Post by rtb » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:48 am

Not only has Eddie stepped up his game, but no matter where he is/has been on the depth chart he is always there pumping up the crowd and team. It is obvious Eddie has a great love for football and has fun playing the game. If you can enjoy practice, mess around on Monday and Tuesday and make a catch on 4th down Saturday then you are alright with me! I like the fact that Eddie appears to love football and maybe Kramer knows his comments can't bring Eddie down only motivate him to be better. I wish they would stop, but even if they don't, GO EDDIE!!!



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Re: Rant - receivers in the news

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:01 am

BobcatBlood wrote:Is it just me or does it seem like Kramer can't just congratulate Eddie Sullivan and leave it at that - or really say anything good about him at all? In the editorial on Sunday all he could say was that Eddie screwed around in practice and mouths off too much.

In the Chronicle today, the story about Gatewood just annoys me to no end. Gatewood has steadily improved and I'm really glad that he is on this team. This is not against him. Kramer says, "Rick's a good football player, I can't say that about the other receivers. He can do the dirty work, he's a physical guy, he loves to block. He's tough carrying the ball. Rick carries the ball like a tailback."

Eddie didn't get thrown a sixty yard play in the third quarter.. he used a beautiful stiff arm to pick up another 40 yards + and when Travis threw the interception, he made the most pure, dominant unassisted tackle on the guy who interecepted it that I've seen any of these receivers make. Why couldn't Kramer just say "most receivers aren't full blown football players" or something like that? WHy specifically say that Gatewood is the only Football player we have at wide receiver? (I'm not a big Guinn fan - i don't think he blocks or does the little extra to stretch out for a ball or push it ahead another yard, but that isn't the point) In his coaches show on Monday, Kramer said that Sullivan, Guinn and Gatewood are the only acceptable receivers on the team - all the others are WAY behind. Even if that is true, why say it? And frankly, i've seen Alley too many times in practice to believe that. I'd be a little surprised if he didn't find another team...

Anyway, I'll leave it that. In general I think Kramer is a good coach but I hate these little comments that he makes. I should probably get some coffee...
To me that comes across as being motivational. He doesn't want our receivers getting cocky now that they are starting to produce. Each game is a new game and they must all put forth their best effort each and every game. I think some of his comments about Sullivan go back to the previous year (about working hard in practice etc.) and he is just trying to keep them stoked up (I'll show you attitude) for this game this weekend. I had coaches in high school that did the same thing.



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Post by mjc » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:56 am

Krames has done this kind of thing since he landed back in Bozeman. His first year he did a report card of the players and coaches in the newspaper. I know for a fact it really "hurt" several of the players. Most people respond to postivie reinforcement as opposed to negative. The bottom line is that these are still 18-22 year old kids. Some players (ie Ryan Johnson) could let Krames comments roll off of his back and show him how great he was with or without Krames comments. Some players with less confidence can't handle the negative comments in the press. One of Coach O'Briens strongest points was that he would scream at one of his players if they did something wrong but in the next play he would scream 100 times more on what they did right.

Being a coach is such a complicated process. Coaches are only human and they can mistakes too.

But unlike Krames, I don't depend on the performance of 18-22 year old kids for my livelihood.



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post coffee reflections

Post by BobcatBlood » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:41 am

Kramer did give Eddie some kudos in his "MSU Game Notes Vs SDSU" on the current bobcats web page: "On the Bobcats: ¡§Saturday was our best day so far (this season) getting yards after the catch. That¡¦s a matter of being athletic enough to make plays and ramble with the ball. Blake Wolf and Eddie Sullivan made good runs after catches, and those plays boosted our offense. "

I know some people respond well to criticism (I'm actually one of them) but I guess I think criticism, in particular, should be given face to face and not from coach to the world. My dad was the biggest critic in the world when I played sports. After my best game ever, all he could say to me was that I wasn't jumping to get rebounds near the end of the first half... but when I heard him talking to his friends, it was nothing but pride.

Anyway, clearly Kramer is doing something right in motivating this team - they play with more heart than most teams I've seen - ever. They obviously care about each other and work hard to not let each other down. It just frustrates me when these kinds of things come out in the press.

Thanks for letting me rant!



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Post by El_Gato » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:15 pm

I've heard this complaint about Kramer ever since his first season and this is how I view it...

Yes, they're just kids, but like it or not, they are receiving a significant "value" for their services on the field. I too occassionally wince at some of the comments Kramer makes publicly but I think as long as the position/assistant coaches are there "patting guys on the fanny", I don't mind in the Head Coach is a bit of a hard-ass & holds kids accountable. It may sometimes sound harsh, but from my experience with Coach K, I do know that he won't say it if he doesn't mean it. So if he calls a kid out publicly, I KNOW that he feels that particular kid or group of kids has the talent and/or ability to perform better than they are.

That being said, consider this...

If you were the kid Kramer was being negative about, how would YOU respond to the negativity?

A) Would you "give him the finger", pout, sulk, or generally have the attitude that you were doing the best you could and if that wasn't good enough, TOUGH?

B) Would you take the criticism and say "Coach is right, I can and should be working harder & doing better..."

C) Would you say "F#@* YOU Coach! I'll show you how good I can be! I'll be the best damned _______________ you've ever had!!!"

I believe that Coach K is searching for young men who will answer B or C. I also believe that if Coach K felt you were giving it everything you had & were working to be the best you could possibly be, you'd never hear him say anything negative about you individually.

I would rather have a "Bad Cop" at the top of my team, a guy who's tough & holds his players accountable, along with a bunch of "Good Cops" as assistants, than to have a "fanny-patter" running things... That's just my opinion, but it seems over the decades that the 'Tough Guys' like Belichick, Parcells, Johnson, Shula, Noll, etc., have more hardware than the 'Nice Guys' like Vermeil, or....?

Plus, by now, I would think any kid who comes to MSU would know enough about Kramer to know that if you're not pulling your weight or dogging it, you're going to get called out.


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Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:49 pm

El_Gato wrote:I've heard this complaint about Kramer ever since his first season and this is how I view it...

Yes, they're just kids, but like it or not, they are receiving a significant "value" for their services on the field. I too occassionally wince at some of the comments Kramer makes publicly but I think as long as the position/assistant coaches are there "patting guys on the fanny", I don't mind in the Head Coach is a bit of a hard-ass & holds kids accountable. It may sometimes sound harsh, but from my experience with Coach K, I do know that he won't say it if he doesn't mean it. So if he calls a kid out publicly, I KNOW that he feels that particular kid or group of kids has the talent and/or ability to perform better than they are.

That being said, consider this...

If you were the kid Kramer was being negative about, how would YOU respond to the negativity?

A) Would you "give him the finger", pout, sulk, or generally have the attitude that you were doing the best you could and if that wasn't good enough, TOUGH?

B) Would you take the criticism and say "Coach is right, I can and should be working harder & doing better..."

C) Would you say "F#@* YOU Coach! I'll show you how good I can be! I'll be the best damned _______________ you've ever had!!!"

I believe that Coach K is searching for young men who will answer B or C. I also believe that if Coach K felt you were giving it everything you had & were working to be the best you could possibly be, you'd never hear him say anything negative about you individually.

I would rather have a "Bad Cop" at the top of my team, a guy who's tough & holds his players accountable, along with a bunch of "Good Cops" as assistants, than to have a "fanny-patter" running things... That's just my opinion, but it seems over the decades that the 'Tough Guys' like Belichick, Parcells, Johnson, Shula, Noll, etc., have more hardware than the 'Nice Guys' like Vermeil, or....?

Plus, by now, I would think any kid who comes to MSU would know enough about Kramer to know that if you're not pulling your weight or dogging it, you're going to get called out.
Parcells is a very good analogy. Remember, a lot of these players were GOD in their high schools and some think very high of themselves. College and Pro coaches use negative criticism to often make them work harder and get better. Now calling someone a 'LADY' like Parcells did that one time is going too extreme. Most players respond with the "Oh yeah, I'll show you" response. Something else Kramer knows more about than us is 'practice' as well. I do know that Kramer is the type of guy that wants you to bring it ALL THE TIME ... PRACTICE/GAME you name it, so thats why I think he gets down on some players (even though they are performing well during the game). It just makes them better. These kids are big kids and Kramer has not crossed the line as being a HEAD COACH in my opinion. I would much rather play for a TOUGH coach than a fanny patter any day of the week. Kramer has the makings of BOTH which is very nice.



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Post by 94VegasCat » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:34 pm

Knowing who, when, where, and how to push peoples buttons is a hard job. We probably all do it in our jobs. Managing people is not as easy as giving the orders and watching the effects. Each person has their buttons and knowing what it takes to get those buttons pushed can be an art. I think Kramer does the majority of things right.

I also think Guinn has lagged behind the other receivers and once again I will get on my Kellen Alley soapbox. LETS SEE WHAT THE KID CAN DO AT GAME TIME. Most of us have seen him in practice or spring games and the kid is GOOD!!

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Post by VictorG » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:29 pm

Man this sounds familiar! Maybe the Griz and Cats need to hire professional writers for the coaches!

Come on people, get real! These coaches are taking a few minutes out of their busy day to answer a few questions and everyone seems to want to hang onto and analyze each and every word for some hidden meaning! If there is a hidden meaning behind anything they say it's most likely "are we done yet"?



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Post by mjc » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:18 pm

You must not know Kramer very well. He loves to talk and loves to use big words too. As a tax payer in the state of Montana - I would think he could choose his words a little more carefully. He's been doing this coaching gig for many, many years. I know that not all of his $120,000 + salary comes from the state (some from radio, tv shows and some from the QB club) but he is representing MSU and should be the leader that he is paid to be. Just my opinion.....



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Post by SonomaCat » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:30 pm

We should be careful what we wish for. As it is, we have one of the most articulate and intelligent college football coaches in the country. He's an active promoter of the program and is virtually solely responsible for the large crowds and the excitement in the program that we see right now. Even if we don't agree with every single word that comes out of his mouth (and frankly, I don't know many people whose every word is one that I agree with), we have to count ourselves lucky to have a coach who does represent the team, Montana State University and the state of Montana as well as Kramer does.



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Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:51 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:We should be careful what we wish for. As it is, we have one of the most articulate and intelligent college football coaches in the country. He's an active promoter of the program and is virtually solely responsible for the large crowds and the excitement in the program that we see right now. Even if we don't agree with every single word that comes out of his mouth (and frankly, I don't know many people whose every word is one that I agree with), we have to count ourselves lucky to have a coach who does represent the team, Montana State University and the state of Montana as well as Kramer does.
Yep, very well said BAC .... Krames is the MAN! Who wouldn't want to play for this guy?



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Post by mjc » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:46 pm

Who wouldn't want to play for this man???? Probably the 250-300 football players that have left the program since Kramer arrived in Bozeman.

I would also give credit to the players and assistant coaches for getting the public excited about Bobcat football. Of course - until this year - the majority of the players were recruited by Cliff and his assistant coaches.
Starting this year - they are all Kramer and company.

Just one man's opinion.....



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Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:07 pm

mjc wrote:Who wouldn't want to play for this man???? Probably the 250-300 football players that have left the program since Kramer arrived in Bozeman.

I would also give credit to the players and assistant coaches for getting the public excited about Bobcat football. Of course - until this year - the majority of the players were recruited by Cliff and his assistant coaches.
Starting this year - they are all Kramer and company.

Just one man's opinion.....
Kramer runs a tough program. Do you notice how many fat guys we have on our team versus previous Bobcat teams? VERY LITTLE. If you can't cut it in his system then some players leave. All that leaves is players that want to dedicate themselves and are worth the effort to coach in the long run in my opinion. Why do you think this team has not quit!



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Post by SonomaCat » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:10 pm

With all due respect to Cliff as a coach and a person, he is not in the same league with Kramer when it comes to promoting the program. The wins definitely help, and we could debate the proportional responsibility for that until the end of time (although I think Kramer would get the knod from most on that front as well), but the resurgence of the program goes beyond the W/L column. He has brought an energy and an enthusiasm to the program that is huge, and it has translated into success for the program. He also works his butt off to promote the program within the state and beyond. A large part of his position is marketing, and he does a great job in that regard.



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Post by wbtfg » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:40 pm

God Bless KRAMERICA!!!!



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