Seriously torn....and looking for help

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:53 pm

While it did not ruin my weekend (for once), I did have time to think about the game.

While I know that in the big scheme of things, it does not matter what I think, I am still torn over what I should be feeling at this point.

Before the game, I remarked to several people that I did not know whether we would win or not. And in my mind the W or L did not matter. What I said would matter was our performance. Would we come out spirited or down? Would we play inspired, or just "punching the clock"? Would we bounce back from adversity, or fold?

I am not happy with the answers to any of those questions.

Here is where I am torn. What should be my expectations for the rest of the season? I don't want to hear, "you should expect to show up and cheer on the Cats." Quite frankly, I don't want that rah-rah BS right now. I want a frank answer on what I should expect the rest of this season.

Should I expect a serious run at the Conf Title? Should I expect that we put ourselves in the hunt for a playoff game (home or away)? Should I expect to win 3 games? 5 games? What?

The FB theme this year, on the front of the Media Guide, was "The Next Step". Not, "Let's have fun Rebuilding", or "Lulay and Bolton are gone...let's suck our thumbs", it was "The Next Step". Is that still a reasonable expectation?

As was stated on another thread, now is the time that requires some serious soul-searching for the players and coaches. Well, in that vein, we as fans/boosters/alumni should also be ready for some serious soul searching on where the program is headed, and what we want the program to look like - at this point I don't know.

As many of you know, I am a Cat fan through and through. I support this team - 4 year Montana kids, 1-a drop downs, JUCO transfers....ALL OF THEM. My family and I drive from Helena every weekend to home games. We created our family vacation around the game in Colorado so that we could go watch them. I even drag the kids to Spring Practice (and of course the Spring Game). I will never cease to be a Cat Fan. But I am looking for some advice as to where I should be right now.

I am not happy with the current direction of the program. And if this continues, I know what I will be saying/thinking by the end of the season. And if this continues, I will not be as polite as I am now in discussing it.

Just tell me what my expectations about the season should be today.

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:57 pm

Honestly, I can't help you out. No one knows what this team is going to do.

My expectations ride on next week. If we beat Eastern, then you can believe we'll finish in the top half of the conference. If we demolish Eastern, I might, just MIGHT think about a conference title. If we lose, hope for .500.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:11 pm

I honestly think, even after watching the last 2 games and having a 1-2 record that if Kramer does not get this team to 7-4 that his job has to be in serious jeopardy.

He simply talked this team up way too much, and has way too much talent on it to not finish 7-4.

Now, after watching the effort and confusion the Cats have displayed these last 2 games, I think 7-4 would be an absolute miracle. But despite that, and all that he has done for this program getting it back to being respectable, I still think Kramer has to pull one out and go 7-4 or else he's in trouble.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:18 pm

Cat Pride wrote: He simply talked this team up way too much, and has way too much talent on it to not finish 7-4.

Okay, this is a serious question, not trying to defend Kramer here but where was all of this talking up that Kramer did? As far as I can remember this was probably the least hyped season/team since Kramer began at MSU. I even remember a few Griz fans on here a month or so ago remarking that the Kramer hype this year had been considerably less than in years past. I remember him saying some individiual praise such as the WR's looking good, really good defense (okay, so he did hype the D, I'll give you that), etc. But as for the team and the season, most of it was Kramer saying we had alot of question marks and that things were going well in camp, but not that we were going to light the world on fire. If you can prove me wrong, great I would love to hear it, but to me all of the hype came two weeks ago when we beat CU, not from Kramer in the pre-season.

canyoncat · Post by **canyoncat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:18 pm

After watching the game last week, I agree with Helenacat! As for expectations we should just look at this from week to week.

For the game against EWU we should look (hope) for improvement from the offense. Meaning, make some first downs and keep the defense off the field. Convert some third downs and sustain some drives. I don't care how it is done, I just think that a little success here and there will go a long way in rebuilding the teams confidence (and the fans).

If the offense is able to go out and put some points on the board and sustain some drives it will help the defense and help gain back some confidence.

GO CATS, I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP!!!
SEE YA SATURDAY

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:22 pm

I am at a loss as well trying to gauge this team. What we need to do as fans is give them everything we have. We owe it to them to be behind them wether they win or lose. Not going to the games/cheering loud (12th man) isn't going to help the team at all. I am looking for improvement from week to week starting this weekend. Things like 1) Dropped passes 2) Penalties 3) Turnovers are a good start. If you limit those and start playing some good solid defense then our team should start righting the ship and coming together. Right now we have too many holes springing up to even begin to get the sails up and start going forward. We need to fix the DETAILS first (win or lose) and start going up from there. That is all we can do besides supporting these kids/coaches and letting them know we feel the pain too and SUPPORT THEM.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:28 pm

Not that you want to hear from a Griz fan on this, but I'll post anyway.

Coming into the season my thoughts were that the cats would have a tough time at the beginning of the season breaking in a new QB and having new WR to sync up with would make it doubly tough.

Also, the lack of depth at RB was something I thought could be a problem given that, I thought running the ball and doing some play action might be the best way for the cats to get the QB and WRs started. Groves, while seemingly a stud, is not a power back who can take a lot of punishment.
Seeing a I-A transfer come in late I thought that was good, but he would still need to be brought up to speed, and was unproven.

I also thought the cat D would be able to keep them in games early and allow the O to catch up and get up to speed. Who wouldn't have thought this regardless of what you thought about how the O would be.

Then the cats basically dismantle the buffs. Carpenter looks good, WRs look good, and the rushing attack is not really needed yet, but Groves looks pretty good at times. So, I thought, damn, Kramer got lucky when rolling the dice this year.
The D looked very good, especially in the second half....etc, etc. You guys know how you looked.

So cat fans got a false sence of where their team was really at. Sure, the cats did show were they could be, and how good they could be, but one game doesn't show consistency, or exactly how good a team really is. It is one game.

Still, if I were a cat fan I'd have plenty of hope. I'd also feel like dog isht, in that the team couldn't continue at the level they played at in the first game. And worse yet, they couldn't rise to that level at home, infront of a full stadium of eager fans.

I came away from the Davis game thinking, "the cats are just playing sloppy, and uninspired".

Although I though the cats would have some difficulties on O early, like I said, I never imagined the entire team would look so bad, especially after a great game to start the year.

All smack aside, I fee for you guys. You had the rug ripped right out from under you these last two weeks. I think Kramer needs to get these guys working as a unit, get them motivated and excited to be playing, and probably try to forget the last two games as much as possible, because the real season of conference play is beginning, and another game like the last two and there will be real trouble.

BozCatFan · Post by **BozCatFan** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:32 pm

IMO I think we need to show up at the games and support the players.

However, those who give money to the Athletic Department (AD) in terms of sponsorships, athletic scholarship association, QB Club, M Club, etc.... should send a message that we are not going to settle for being mediocre.

Unfortunately in college athletics those with the deep pockets call the shots. I'm sure there is more going on behind the scenes than anyone knows. Those supporters are the ones who are going to have to call Kramer, Fields, etc... and tell them that they are not going to settle for mediocre programs any longer. If they threaten to cut off the funds than change will be made. If they are in Kramer's court than it does not matter what anyone else does or says...he will be here for the long term no matter what happens.

If Kramer is going to stay, perhaps a solution might be to go out and find the best possible assistant coaches. Let Kramer be the great PR person he is and turn running the actual program over to one or two assistants who really know what they are doing. There are few as good as Kramer at PR and being a guy who can be the face of a program.

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:33 pm

Jah,
I've got to agree with you. I did not think going into this season that this was the best team ever fielded by the Cats, although I believed (and still believe) that there is a lot of individual talent on the team (emphasis on the word "individual"). But what is inexcusable for me is unispired play/play-calling/coaching/etc.

While the loss to Chadron hurt, I did not think it was devastating - DEPENDING ON HOW WE REACTED TO IT VS. UC DAVIS. Obviously, we did not come to play/coach.

Now what should I expect?

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:38 pm

Jah - great post

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:48 pm

From what I hear the players are completely lazy. I heard from an ex-player, who was on the sidelines, that he heard 6 of the starters say that they didn't want to be there because it was too cold. I hate bringing this up and wasn't going to, but it has been bothering me since Saturday. I only missed one home game last year and went to Portland and EWU- I live in Spokane and love to travel back to the games. I have been unable to this year for other reasons, but wanted to hit the EWU this week. I think it would kill me to see a Bobcat Team play as if they didn't even want to be there. I have listened to all 3 games on the radio and the past two weeks I have managed to hold off on putting holes in my walls. I hope to make it and see a new Bobcat Team this week. I will say no more comments, positive or negative, until I see them for myself. GO CATS! Lay it to the Eags- they embarrassed you last year!!!!

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:28 pm

Kind of along those lines, suckit, a friend of mine and I both noticed a lot of cat players wearing those thermal head/face mask things you wear when it is real cold out. Everybody was wearing long sleave thermals under their uniforms, but I'm guessing that is just part of the uniform, because everyone seemed to have them.

It just struck me as odd, that a team from Montana was all bundled up in weather that couldn't have been THAT cold. It got me thinking about seeing UM play in the cold. Right or wrong, or plain stupid or not, there were always those few guys without undershirts even in the coldest of games. As if to say, I'm tough, I can take it....can you? Kind of a mind f**k type thing, that gets the other team thinking.

Anyway, one other question I had, that I think is pretty significant, especially if there are players on the sidelines complaining about this or that, and don't have their heads in the game...With all of your WR's gone, and more importantly Lulay gone, WHO ARE THE LEADERS ON THIS TEAM? Same for the D, Mollohan is gone as is Maurudas, who seemed like leaders on that side of the ball. Has anyone stepped up as new leaders?

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:35 pm

JahGriz wrote:With all of your WR's gone, and more importantly Lulay gone, WHO ARE THE LEADERS ON THIS TEAM? Same for the D, Mollohan is gone as is Maurudas, who seemed like leaders on that side of the ball. Has anyone stepped up as new leaders?

I think you just hit on the million dollar question Jah, at least in my mind. Unfortunately it really doesn't appear there is an answer to the who question yet.

To go along with that, I know they aren't necessarily the "leaders" of the team but I was just looking at my Cat Football poster for this year. On it are Evin Groves, Joe Hirst, Ryan Force and Grant Elliot. So of the four, two are now injured and one is now longer playing. Ouch.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:36 pm

JahGriz wrote:Kind of along those lines, suckit, a friend of mine and I both noticed a lot of cat players wearing those thermal head/face mask things you wear when it is real cold out. Everybody was wearing long sleave thermals under their uniforms, but I'm guessing that is just part of the uniform, because everyone seemed to have them.

It just struck me as odd, that a team from Montana was all bundled up in weather that couldn't have been THAT cold. It got me thinking about seeing UM play in the cold. Right or wrong, or plain stupid or not, there were always those few guys without undershirts even in the coldest of games. As if to say, I'm tough, I can take it....can you? Kind of a mind f**k type thing, that gets the other team thinking.

Anyway, one other question I had, that I think is pretty significant, especially if there are players on the sidelines complaining about this or that, and don't have their heads in the game...With all of your WR's gone, and more importantly Lulay gone, WHO ARE THE LEADERS ON THIS TEAM? Same for the D, Mollohan is gone as is Maurudas, who seemed like leaders on that side of the ball. Has anyone stepped up as new leaders?

That is one thing that got me too, the players standing around after plays like they are in a trance (100% total difference from Colorado game on the clips I saw). We need some leaders to stand up and take charge on this team! I don't like the fans booing, but I AM ALL for leaders on a team getting in the face of other players if they aren't playing 100%. That is what I have seen this past 2 weeks. They have played flat and no one out in either huddle is leading the teams. I know there are a lot of new players, but we need some players to step up and LEAD this team this year (you need that when things aren't going well as it helps the players FOCUS). I'm not calling any of the players out, but I think we need MORE LEADERSHIP and FIRE from our team. Plain and simple. It will do a world of good for this team right now.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:00 pm

JahGriz wrote:Kind of along those lines, suckit, a friend of mine and I both noticed a lot of cat players wearing those thermal head/face mask things you wear when it is real cold out. Everybody was wearing long sleave thermals under their uniforms, but I'm guessing that is just part of the uniform, because everyone seemed to have them.

It just struck me as odd, that a team from Montana was all bundled up in weather that couldn't have been THAT cold. It got me thinking about seeing UM play in the cold. Right or wrong, or plain stupid or not, there were always those few guys without undershirts even in the coldest of games. As if to say, I'm tough, I can take it....can you? Kind of a mind f**k type thing, that gets the other team thinking.

Anyway, one other question I had, that I think is pretty significant, especially if there are players on the sidelines complaining about this or that, and don't have their heads in the game...With all of your WR's gone, and more importantly Lulay gone, WHO ARE THE LEADERS ON THIS TEAM? Same for the D, Mollohan is gone as is Maurudas, who seemed like leaders on that side of the ball. Has anyone stepped up as new leaders?

Jah- You make some good points. Leadership is a question in my head- I look over the past five years at some of the Bobcat Leaders and there is no question who they were. I just don't have that same feeling right now. I have not given up and still feel like the Cats have the talent, but someone new needs to emerge as the vocal leader- maybe it takes a young guy like Bobby Daly for that to happen. f it, I will be at the EWU and hope to see a fired up team, kick the sh*t out of the Cheney Eagles- GO CATS!

grzh8r · Post by **grzh8r** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:04 pm

[quote="CARDIAC_CATSThat is one thing that got me too, the players standing around after plays like they are in a trance (100% total difference from Colorado game on the clips I saw). We need some leaders to stand up and take charge on this team! I don't like the fans booing, but I AM ALL for leaders on a team getting in the face of other players if they aren't playing 100%. That is what I have seen this past 2 weeks. They have played flat and no one out in either huddle is leading the teams. I know there are a lot of new players, but we need some players to step up and LEAD this team this year (you need that when things aren't going well as it helps the players FOCUS). I'm not calling any of the players out, but I think we need MORE LEADERSHIP and FIRE from our team. Plain and simple. It will do a world of good for this team right now.[/quote]

Cardiac.... I thought the same thing about the players on the field but I have also noticed the players on the sidelines horsing around, laughing, scanning the stands, etc. Some people may not think this is a big deal but I have not seen much spirit, if even any interest in the game, from players on the sideline. In my mind, the difference between a team player/possible starter and a 4-yr pine rider is the ability to focus on the game, the ability to watch and learn your position and the opposing position, and to be a motivator on the sidelines. If a player can't possibly keep their interest on the game, it leads me to believe they have the same work ethic during practice, etc. and then it shows on the field.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:03 pm

My advice is to enjoy this season for what it already has been...a rollercoaster ride.

My gut tells me this team has a few surprises left in it. There will be more peaks, and there will be more valleys. Until the team can run the football consistently, that's the reality.

I have to chalk up this Davis effort to a Chadron hangover. Not the loss, because Davis flat-out kicked the Bobcat's butts, but the effort. I trust we won't see another effort that pitiful the rest of the season.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:08 pm

Turner Brown wrote:suckit griz, I have made many a post talking about what u just posted. The answer to HelenaCat95 is right under everyones feet. Men there is GOLD in them thar hills and in them low lying plains of MONTANA. Cohesiveness is rooted in MONTANA atheletes, its just that simple. MONTANA boys wont give up or complain about the COLD.

If only there was a Division I team that could compete using nothing but MT athletes (at least, nobody has ever done it before), that point would be valid.

As it is ... good theory for NAIA programs, but not much substance when talking about D-1.